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Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 streetsamurai wrote:
There was a foggy panorama pic where we saw a lot, if not all, of the future stuff for both army

Gw showed a clearer picture of the leak that contained the monolith and the Void Dragon. It definitely increased the hype for Indomitus. Before Soul Wars came out GW had already shown most of the new ranges including the black coach.

With Dominion we only know about the two ETB kits and with it being a subfaction of warclans, there are people who think that's all we're getting.
A lot of people like a centrepiece to build the army around. We still don't know what a full Kruleboyz army will look like. Is it really going to be just the one battleline unit? What about cavalry?There are rumours of a giant crocodile. Seeing something like that would persuade a lot of people to buy a Kruleboyz army.

Also I think that faction is a bit more Marmite than Necrons or Nighthaunt. Both of those were almost universally loved.
   
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




USA

I don't have a lot of voice in this discussion, as I really only play skirmish games (might pick up AoS 3.0 at some point), but I for one, am pretty happy that the launch box hasn't sold out. It's nice to give people an opportunity to pick it up that are just deciding to get into AoS, or who don't have the extra money laying around on preorder day.

If it could be available over the summer I would say GW did a pretty good job producing this as a launch box. While this product is clearly not a starter set, having a deal box bundle around for more than a single day of preorders is awesome. Limited time deals are fine, but when that limited time is five minutes on preorder day, they are certainly not so fine.

 
   
Made in de
Powerful Ushbati






Chikout wrote:
 streetsamurai wrote:
There was a foggy panorama pic where we saw a lot, if not all, of the future stuff for both army

Gw showed a clearer picture of the leak that contained the monolith and the Void Dragon. It definitely increased the hype for Indomitus. Before Soul Wars came out GW had already shown most of the new ranges including the black coach.

With Dominion we only know about the two ETB kits and with it being a subfaction of warclans, there are people who think that's all we're getting.
A lot of people like a centrepiece to build the army around. We still don't know what a full Kruleboyz army will look like. Is it really going to be just the one battleline unit? What about cavalry?There are rumours of a giant crocodile. Seeing something like that would persuade a lot of people to buy a Kruleboyz army.

Also I think that faction is a bit more Marmite than Necrons or Nighthaunt. Both of those were almost universally loved.


That pretty much matches my take.

Unless you believe that the original hazy Necron army picture was purposefully leaked by GW, the marketing for Indomitus was pretty similar to Dominion with a couple of ETB kits per faction previewed to showcase there was more stuff coming. But I seem to recall Necrons getting most of their buzz from that leaked picture and all the shiny new (big centerpiece) models in it. That would have given the box a boost. Marines certainly don't need the extra help, but there were a fair few people delighted to buy into the Necron side as a start to an army with all that cool other stuff.

GW is marketing Dominion a lot more conservatively and doesn't give people interested in either faction much to get excited about beyond what's actually in the box. For an aesthetic redo of an existing army and an entirely new army (let's not forget Kruleboyz look nothing like Warhammer Orcs as they have been portrayed for over two decades now) I think that's not a clever choice because they already have to get past lack of investment on the customers' part. Purposely curbing excitement on top of that is a mistake in my opinion.

 Sabotage! wrote:
I don't have a lot of voice in this discussion, as I really only play skirmish games (might pick up AoS 3.0 at some point), but I for one, am pretty happy that the launch box hasn't sold out. It's nice to give people an opportunity to pick it up that are just deciding to get into AoS, or who don't have the extra money laying around on preorder day.

If it could be available over the summer I would say GW did a pretty good job producing this as a launch box. While this product is clearly not a starter set, having a deal box bundle around for more than a single day of preorders is awesome. Limited time deals are fine, but when that limited time is five minutes on preorder day, they are certainly not so fine.


Agreed, it's a good thing the box is still available.

I don't think GW wants it to hang around all summer, though. We should expect the AoS release to mirror 40k, which means by the end of July they want to start selling the regular starter sets. I think they'd rather not want people to see the launch box and the starter boxes side by side and be able to compare contents and value in the moment.

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Made in ca
Charing Cold One Knight





For an aesthetic redo of an existing army and an entirely new army (let's not forget Kruleboyz look nothing like Warhammer Orcs as they have been portrayed for over two decades now) I think that's not a clever choice because they already have to get past lack of investment on the customers' part. Purposely curbing excitement on top of that is a mistake in my opinion.


I actually think they are trying to get new people in with them. I know a few people who have stayed away from Warhammer who are now suddenly showing interest due to the Kruleboys. Some of them appear to love the new LotR aesthetics of the new orcs.

-Primary Armies -
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- Secondary Armies -
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

Wait, people unironically believe the blurry leaks AREN'T from GW themselves? I thought that was a joke, given how obvious it is

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Wait, people unironically believe the blurry leaks AREN'T from GW themselves? I thought that was a joke, given how obvious it is


I think a lot of people remember the Kirby days where, yes, we did get real blurry leaks from real leakers and stuff because that was our only source of news outside of a whitedwarf issue or a release every few months. GW back then didn't really do any communicating with fans online at all and didn't really give much info out early either. With releases being more focused on the big release approach so you could go months without any news or hint. Then suddenly a week or two before release there'd be a big amount of marketing; boom the release then nothing much after that.

It was a very different time.
Today GW gives us a 3 month window for releases so we see far less leaking; there's no point leaking what people already know is coming and because people know its coming any leak does far less "damage" to GW's marketing system. Doing a few of their own leaks now and then also lets them mess with that system. IT reduces any potential marketing damage from any real leaks that might happen.


And we do still get them; heck a Slaanesh sprue for the fiend made it into an ebay store by accident (that is unless you believe GW setup a whole ebay store with a long trading history just for that marketing). So stuff does still leak out; however GW is more likely to roll with those than fight them like they used too. Heck I recall when GW was sending takedown and copyright demands to news sites publishing leaks.

   
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 Eldarsif wrote:
For an aesthetic redo of an existing army and an entirely new army (let's not forget Kruleboyz look nothing like Warhammer Orcs as they have been portrayed for over two decades now) I think that's not a clever choice because they already have to get past lack of investment on the customers' part. Purposely curbing excitement on top of that is a mistake in my opinion.


I actually think they are trying to get new people in with them. I know a few people who have stayed away from Warhammer who are now suddenly showing interest due to the Kruleboys. Some of them appear to love the new LotR aesthetics of the new orcs.


I don't really want to speculate on GW's motives, but if we accepted Kruleboyz as an attempt to get people in with a new aesthetic (which isn't hard to be honest - they look cool enough), I have to wonder why they specifically needed to be sold as a kind of orc. Is there some non-negligible demographic out there that's really into this particular style of armor, clothing and weaponry that would jump ship and refuse to deal with AoS the moment they found out that that these aren't swamp orcs but are in fact swamp norgs?

I can't help but wonder what GW is thinking when they specifically want orcs for whatever reason, but then go out of their way to make them look nothing like orcs, while the established orc aesthetic is kept and happily coexists alongside the new one. Especially when one of the selling points of AoS is the new and expandable setting that has no inherent need for this particular faction to be a kind of orc. AoS isn't weighed down by three decades of background that sets certain expectations, and unlike the other Grand Alliances, Destruction hasn't seen any noteworthy design focus yet that would lay the foundations for such expectations.

Of course I'm biased. I think GW is doing a poor job keeping Grand Alliance Destruction so limited with a huge focus on greenskins like there's nothing else in the world. I had hoped for Destruction to get more breadth. It can certainly still happen throughout the edition, but it's a poor and disappointing start to me.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
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Exalted Beastlord




I can't help but wonder what GW is thinking when they specifically want orcs for whatever reason, but then go out of their way to make them look nothing like orcs, while the established orc aesthetic is kept and happily coexists alongside the new one.

Eh? Greenskins were a big bucket faction, from way back, with lots of variants and variations, not just a specific look of 'orcs.'

This is actually a great move away from the way they've artificially limited the pool. Its something new for people who want that, something that evokes Tolkien and D&D for people who want that, and goes back and evokes classic Warhammer looks and models for people who want that. Its a winning move all the way around.

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Regular Dakkanaut




South Shields

Yup, definitely inspired by the long distant past.
[Thumb - PXL_20210623_134437076.jpg]

[Thumb - PXL_20210623_134729332.jpg]

   
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Many people would be surprised by how many AoS "omg thats no warhammer at all!" factions are inspired by really, really old warhammer , more wacky stuff.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
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Discriminating Warrior





Austria

the same people that say that those factions would have never been possible in Warhammer Fantasy

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Voss wrote:
I can't help but wonder what GW is thinking when they specifically want orcs for whatever reason, but then go out of their way to make them look nothing like orcs, while the established orc aesthetic is kept and happily coexists alongside the new one.

Eh? Greenskins were a big bucket faction, from way back, with lots of variants and variations, not just a specific look of 'orcs.'


Since the post you quote is a follow up to the one in which I was specifically talking about the orc look of the last twenty years and a bit, no, I have to disagree. An orc's an orc and a goblin's a goblin (with the possible exception of a spider eyed mutant on the Arachnarok?). Taste in attire and fashion, that's where you got your differences. Anatomically, there were no distinct sub-groups of orcs.

Orcs in the way, way back wasn't what I was talking about.

Voss wrote:
This is actually a great move away from the way they've artificially limited the pool. Its something new for people who want that, something that evokes Tolkien and D&D for people who want that, and goes back and evokes classic Warhammer looks and models for people who want that. Its a winning move all the way around.


Yes, it's always a great move for people who don't like the current thing and wish it wasn't what it is. Good for them, too, for getting what they want.

Doesn't help people who like the current thing just the way it is.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
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Charing Cold One Knight





Of course I'm biased. I think GW is doing a poor job keeping Grand Alliance Destruction so limited with a huge focus on greenskins like there's nothing else in the world. I had hoped for Destruction to get more breadth. It can certainly still happen throughout the edition, but it's a poor and disappointing start to me.


Meh, Order is basically just several variants of elves, humans, and dwarves with Seraphon being the odd one out.

-Primary Armies -
Craftworlds | Dark Angels | Death Guard | Sisters of Battle | Chaos Knights | Flesh-Eater Courts | Idoneth Deepkin

- Secondary Armies -
Drukhari | Necrons || Tyranids | Daughters of Khaine | Blades of Khorne | Stormcast Eternals
 
   
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Powerful Ushbati






 Eldarsif wrote:
Of course I'm biased. I think GW is doing a poor job keeping Grand Alliance Destruction so limited with a huge focus on greenskins like there's nothing else in the world. I had hoped for Destruction to get more breadth. It can certainly still happen throughout the edition, but it's a poor and disappointing start to me.


Meh, Order is basically just several variants of elves, humans, and dwarves with Seraphon being the odd one out.


And if they expanded Order, would you rather have a fifth faction of elves or something that isn't represented in the super-faction yet? That's all I'm saying.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in ca
Charing Cold One Knight





To be honest I'd just like regular humans expanded which is already being rumored. I would also argue that the Orruk faction is super limited so any expansion of it is welcome. Then I'd love for DoK to get some of the CoS aelves back and Scourge Privateers to go to Idoneth into a larger factions. Throw in Phoenix and Phoenix Guard into Lumineth. Also a rumor that Duardin are all going to be put together which I think is fantastic news.

I think there is also the question whether this is a "new faction" per se or just en expansion of a new potential Orruk Warclan tome. Because if this is just an expanson of the Orruk book then it isn't technically a new faction. A new sub-faction, yes, but not a new faction.

I also think we are probably getting our 5th Aelf faction in the form of Malerion(unless he and Morathi get thrown together, which I kinda hope because then it would be Malerion and Morathi vs. Tyrion and Teclis) and I really don't mind that as I love elves in most fantasy settings.

There is also demand for more traditional fantasy servings which I believe GW is trying to meet. It also doubles as DnD models for them which means they can reach a wider audience.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/23 15:03:33


-Primary Armies -
Craftworlds | Dark Angels | Death Guard | Sisters of Battle | Chaos Knights | Flesh-Eater Courts | Idoneth Deepkin

- Secondary Armies -
Drukhari | Necrons || Tyranids | Daughters of Khaine | Blades of Khorne | Stormcast Eternals
 
   
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Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Eldarsif wrote:
Of course I'm biased. I think GW is doing a poor job keeping Grand Alliance Destruction so limited with a huge focus on greenskins like there's nothing else in the world. I had hoped for Destruction to get more breadth. It can certainly still happen throughout the edition, but it's a poor and disappointing start to me.


Meh, Order is basically just several variants of elves, humans, and dwarves with Seraphon being the odd one out.


And trees - lots and lots of trees

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

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Regular Dakkanaut



Canada

I see CGI orcs from the Hobbit movies, not LoTR. Especially their lemon-sucking faces.

 Galas wrote:
Many people would be surprised by how many AoS "omg thats no warhammer at all!" factions are inspired by really, really old warhammer , more wacky stuff.


Is going back to wacky 80s design a good thing?



   
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Texas

Goose LeChance wrote:
I see CGI orcs from the Hobbit movies, not LoTR. Especially their lemon-sucking faces.

Is going back to wacky 80s design a good thing?





Depends... If you are talking about Chaos Dwarves, Fimir and Skaven, then it is a very good thing.

If you are talking Elves, Dragons or Treemen, then no. Very much no.

Urusei Yatsura, Cerebus the Aardvark, Machiavelli, Plato and Happy Days. So, how was your childhood?

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I’m trying to acquire extra Orc heads to swap all the Kruleboyz myself.

 
   
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Powerful Ushbati






 Mr Morden wrote:
 Eldarsif wrote:
Of course I'm biased. I think GW is doing a poor job keeping Grand Alliance Destruction so limited with a huge focus on greenskins like there's nothing else in the world. I had hoped for Destruction to get more breadth. It can certainly still happen throughout the edition, but it's a poor and disappointing start to me.


Meh, Order is basically just several variants of elves, humans, and dwarves with Seraphon being the odd one out.


And trees - lots and lots of trees


Very angry trees that resent civilization. Would have probably been better off in Destruction. The impression I'm getting is that GW views Order as civilization and Destruction as natural order.

Of course the Grand Alliances have been somewhat dodgy from the start, so...

Goose LeChance wrote:
I see CGI orcs from the Hobbit movies, not LoTR. Especially their lemon-sucking faces.


You're seeing Bolg, and you're right to do so.

Goose LeChance wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Many people would be surprised by how many AoS "omg thats no warhammer at all!" factions are inspired by really, really old warhammer , more wacky stuff.


Is going back to wacky 80s design a good thing?


Leaving aside the natural superiority of everything created in the 80s, I'd say that's really dependent on what's brought back, how and to which audience.

A lot of people have expressed their desire to see Fimir return prior to the reveal of the Kruleboyz. The 40k model range is a lot better off after we got Genestealer Cults. Good models by themselves, good models for conversions, more options to choose from - there's really no downside. Mk. VII power armor has been the standard for a very, very long time before the Primaris overhaul. Yet the Horus Heresy thread is quite positive at the prospect of getting actual Mk. VI models.

On the other hand, a lot of people liked the early 2000s lesser daemons and the subsequent return to the the earlier designs when they got their plastic overhaul wasn't universally greeted.

In my experience the rough guideline for these things is that the more successful GW has been with an intermediate design getting it ingrained in its customers, the harder it's been to revisit older designs that have their own merits but aren't that really cool thing that gets replaced or added to.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Goose LeChance wrote:


 Galas wrote:
Many people would be surprised by how many AoS "omg thats no warhammer at all!" factions are inspired by really, really old warhammer , more wacky stuff.


Is going back to wacky 80s design a good thing?





Is completely subjetive, specially when they are tacking those designs as inspiration and modernizing them. But they are warhammer nonetheless.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







Old, new, inspired, derivative etc at the end of the day it boils down if it works for you or not, today.

As much as I love some of the oldest stuff I never really liked the take on Lotr plastics for green skins, they looked so boring, uninspired and not unique.
The dominion orcs look a bit pants since they are errr lotr plastics boring. Since they re 50% of the minis its kind off-putting.
But thats just me and the reason its something I will look into later rather than a must buy now.

Theres something to be said about minis aesthetics growing up on you the more you look at them, but heck the more I see these orcs the less I like them.

Yes lemon sucking face is the right name


   
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Haters gunna hate. Dominion sells out and it isn't because AoS is popular it's because GW didn't produce enough, Dominion doesn't sell out and it's not because GW did produce enough it's because AoS isn't popular.

Oh and ONE store decides to dump stock at cost for a product that hasn't even released yet and that counts as evidence for the whole thing. My flgs' main concern is not having enough stock to fill all the pre orders, at full price no less, does that mean it's selling out and GW didn't produce enough?

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I’m semi-tempted, mostly because of the token set.

See, I don’t play either of the armies. I’m Ossiarchs and Squigs. I’ve nothing against the armies in the set, or indeed the set itself.

Perhaps part of the issue is that AoS doesn’t have a dominant faction the way 40k does.]

Stormcast are of course popular, but not to the one sided degree Marines are in 40K.

I think I might plump for it, and flog off the models for whatever I can get for them. Maybe donate the SC special character to My Well Good At Painting Mage.

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 Eldarsif wrote:


Meh, Order is basically just several variants of elves, humans, and dwarves with Seraphon being the odd one out.


If anything Seraphon are by far the more extreme individuals in Order - you can compare the Stormcasts to Paladins all you like, Seraphon are the extremists who take it to the next level and don't care who falls by the wayside for it.

An army of scaly space Robocop Lizards.


Now only a CSM player. 
   
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Cabin Zombie






 NAVARRO wrote:
Old, new, inspired, derivative etc at the end of the day it boils down if it works for you or not, today.

As much as I love some of the oldest stuff I never really liked the take on Lotr plastics for green skins, they looked so boring, uninspired and not unique.
The dominion orcs look a bit pants since they are errr lotr plastics boring. Since they re 50% of the minis its kind off-putting.
But thats just me and the reason its something I will look into later rather than a must buy now.

Theres something to be said about minis aesthetics growing up on you the more you look at them, but heck the more I see these orcs the less I like them.

Yes lemon sucking face is the right name



It’s weird because I actually rather like the Kruleboyz sculpts, I just don’t like them as Warhammer Orc sculpts.

 
   
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Glorious Nation of U.S.S.A!

 AduroT wrote:

It’s weird because I actually rather like the Kruleboyz sculpts, I just don’t like them as Warhammer Orc sculpts.


I feel the same way with the caveat that I don't think Warhammer orcs technically exist anymore. Didn't they change the name of ever in AOS eventually?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 DarkStarSabre wrote:
 Eldarsif wrote:


Meh, Order is basically just several variants of elves, humans, and dwarves with Seraphon being the odd one out.


If anything Seraphon are by far the more extreme individuals in Order - you can compare the Stormcasts to Paladins all you like, Seraphon are the extremists who take it to the next level and don't care who falls by the wayside for it.

An army of scaly space Robocop Lizards.


And this is why Seraphon are awesome. If anything, their new crazy lore makes me like them even more than before. I've even started painting bits to look like some of the necrons I'm painting, like the old blood on carnosaur gauntlet, and I'm going to be painting some of the "stone" on the models as blackstone.
   
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 Eldarsif wrote:
To be honest I'd just like regular humans expanded which is already being rumored. I would also argue that the Orruk faction is super limited so any expansion of it is welcome. Then I'd love for DoK to get some of the CoS aelves back and Scourge Privateers to go to Idoneth into a larger factions. Throw in Phoenix and Phoenix Guard into Lumineth. Also a rumor that Duardin are all going to be put together which I think is fantastic news.

I think there is also the question whether this is a "new faction" per se or just en expansion of a new potential Orruk Warclan tome. Because if this is just an expanson of the Orruk book then it isn't technically a new faction. A new sub-faction, yes, but not a new faction.

I also think we are probably getting our 5th Aelf faction in the form of Malerion(unless he and Morathi get thrown together, which I kinda hope because then it would be Malerion and Morathi vs. Tyrion and Teclis) and I really don't mind that as I love elves in most fantasy settings.

There is also demand for more traditional fantasy servings which I believe GW is trying to meet. It also doubles as DnD models for them which means they can reach a wider audience.


The problem with the orruks, for me, is that every orruk army is defined by how they are different from standard orruks, except there are no standard orruks any more.

Ironjawz are tougher and bigger and meaner than the standard orc boy. But there's no orc boy any more.

Bonesplittaz are weirder and more primative and magical (which is kind of an eh trope) than the standard orc boy. But there's no orc boy any more.

Kruleboyz are smarter and sneaker than the stander orc boy. But there's no orc boy any more.

They're all defined by a deviation from a baseline that no longer exists.
   
Made in rs
Been Around the Block





stratigo wrote:
 Eldarsif wrote:
To be honest I'd just like regular humans expanded which is already being rumored. I would also argue that the Orruk faction is super limited so any expansion of it is welcome. Then I'd love for DoK to get some of the CoS aelves back and Scourge Privateers to go to Idoneth into a larger factions. Throw in Phoenix and Phoenix Guard into Lumineth. Also a rumor that Duardin are all going to be put together which I think is fantastic news.

I think there is also the question whether this is a "new faction" per se or just en expansion of a new potential Orruk Warclan tome. Because if this is just an expanson of the Orruk book then it isn't technically a new faction. A new sub-faction, yes, but not a new faction.

I also think we are probably getting our 5th Aelf faction in the form of Malerion(unless he and Morathi get thrown together, which I kinda hope because then it would be Malerion and Morathi vs. Tyrion and Teclis) and I really don't mind that as I love elves in most fantasy settings.

There is also demand for more traditional fantasy servings which I believe GW is trying to meet. It also doubles as DnD models for them which means they can reach a wider audience.


The problem with the orruks, for me, is that every orruk army is defined by how they are different from standard orruks, except there are no standard orruks any more.

Ironjawz are tougher and bigger and meaner than the standard orc boy. But there's no orc boy any more.

Bonesplittaz are weirder and more primative and magical (which is kind of an eh trope) than the standard orc boy. But there's no orc boy any more.

Kruleboyz are smarter and sneaker than the stander orc boy. But there's no orc boy any more.

They're all defined by a deviation from a baseline that no longer exists.


You pretty much summed up one AoS's biggest and most ubiquitous problems IMHO.
   
 
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