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I guess it depends on how you define "last Standing". I interpreted as "Who's going to win" but if you just see it as who's going to survive then yes I suppose DE are just as good as anyone. Same with Humans, Orks and Necrons though.

A topic such as this, i believe, can be argued from here and till the 41st millenium. The only real fact we've got, is the fiction written in the codex'es, and so forth, and of which is mostly biased. Although there ARE races which seems much, much more likely to pull through than others.

If we really were to figure out who beats who, in the long run, there's alot more to debate than sheer numbers. As 40k is as much about demons, spiritual energies, psychic abilities and the alike, we'd need, at least, to know what kinds of impact those would have on EACH OTHER - like, say, if the God's and Demons duke'd it out, in a final battle!

I beileve every race, or army if you perfeer, has each their spines, which could be broken and make them vanish. And there's always theories to follow. We got alot of facts, but just as much speculations about each race.

Eldars:
For example, i read earlier today, that the Eldars are much more than just psychic abilities and starcannons. A source actually stated, that the Eldar race, when their final hour approached, would not "die", but instead unite on a spiritual level, and thereby prevail. Maybe even become MUCH, MUCH stronger than we'd ever imagine..?
- Alone this, i feel, gives speculations about a race hardly anyone considers as an actual threat towards any of the other more numerous races out there.

Mankind:
Another example is speculations about the God-Emperor. Fact has it (and DO correct me on this one, am i wrong) that the Emperor protects the IoM's navy inside the warp from whatever demons and creatures lurks in there. If he was to perish, all warp-flighs would be nullified, and hence IoM struggles to keep his "living" remainders intact.
- Although, these facts stated, speculations actually has it, that he one day may come to live once again to lead to IoM to victory. Maybe in a complete spiritual or godly form, maybe in another body..?

The Warp & The Hive Mind:
A third source claimed, that the Hive Mind is made out of pure psychic energy, that resides deep within the warp, - the warp, which many understands as, not a paralel unverse or dimension as such, but the realm of souls (In other words; a fictional version of what we might know as "heaven".).
- NOW; if we stick to this warp for a second, which i personally feel has a LOT greater impact on everything that regards the 40k galaxy and the outfalls of any FINAL battles, than it really gets mention or credit for. This warp is without doubt a key factor to the entire universe, and we simply cannot ignore it in comparison to whatever "miniature you can assemble, paint and get a feel for"!
With that in mind; Would it be irrational, illogical, to persume that the Hive Mind, in fact, is no less than a god - maybe something even greater? We're, after all, looking at a psychic-energy monstrosity capable of controlling a near-endless number of beast-like creatures. We've even read reports about highly intelligent ones being under it's control, such as the Swarmlord, that one-handedly coordinated the assault (else mindlessly assault) against Ultramar, making every Tyranid alot more tactical, and hence resulting in the death of the whole 1st company of the Ultramarines, and nearly killed off their Chaptermaster.
- I am very tempted to believe, that such a "being" is more than capable of taking on the C'tans themselves, if the story ever came down to such.


My final point is this: The great mysteries of the 40k universe is more - and i mean ALOT MORE - than who's got the biggest guns and the baddest attitudes.

Hrm....seems to me that it would work like this:

The hive fleets that have come into our galaxy are the first wispy tendrils of the Tyranid presence. I can't see any living entity prevailing against them in the long run - not even Orks - while Orks multiply via spores, Tyranids leave planets barren of even an atmosphere - meaning that planet by planet, orks would be consumed.

The Dark Eldar are a dying race; their pirate raids to gain prisoners are to sustain their souls such that the big bad SHE doesn't get them. With no life left in the galaxy to steal essence and sustenance from, the Dark Eldar are done.

That leaves Necrons - whom the Tyranids avoid utterly. Necrons, who went to sleep after their Gods consumed virtually all life in the galaxy and went into withdrawal to wait for life to replenish so that they could do it again.

I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Well, after they eat everything they would leave and eat the next galaxy.

Leaving only a bunch of sleepy necrons.

Orks will win.

if enough orks believe something is real, it will be real. all the other races exist because enough orks wanted something to fight besides eachother. eventually, they will get bored with what they have, and dream up an even more powerful foe. but in the end, GREEN IS BEST!

Dashofpepper wrote:I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Even if the Necrons wanted to exterminate the Tyranids, do they actually have the capability to do so? Although terrible and ancient, they are but the remants of a long dead legion. I can imagine that if the Hive Mind thought it necessary then the sheer weight of numbers would tell against the Necron, even if there was minimal biomass to be gained.

Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff. They need to realise that the 'nids will eat all of their pretty books if they dont start mobilizing now. Not to mention all of the "good" forces teaming up ((like; Eldar, IoM, Tau.) I thought this list would be longer ) would get rid of all the current thorns in their sides (Like; Orks, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Chaos maybe.)

Unfortunately none of this will happen and the universe will be a barren lifeless star cluster.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff.

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff.

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

Which is, of course, yet another speculation! Besides, every description of the Tyranids in any codex'es hardly indicate anything of the alike...

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Even if the Necrons wanted to exterminate the Tyranids, do they actually have the capability to do so? Although terrible and ancient, they are but the remants of a long dead legion. I can imagine that if the Hive Mind thought it necessary then the sheer weight of numbers would tell against the Necron, even if there was minimal biomass to be gained.

I honestly think that even if it came down to those being the only two things left in the universe they'd still avoid each-other like a plague. Tyranids lose all biomass directed at Necrons in a battle as A) Necrons cannot be broken down or eaten due to the Phase Out and the fact that they're made of Necrodermis and B) Guass weaponry would leave no biomass behind for the Tyranids to consume after the battle. Necrons also lose out because they gain no souls from a Tyranid defeat and would potentially permanently lose to many in the proses. These sorts of battle will Always end up lose-lose which is why they have yet to fight each-other to date, not counting when the Necrons were BFF's with the BA.

Azure wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Even if the Necrons wanted to exterminate the Tyranids, do they actually have the capability to do so? Although terrible and ancient, they are but the remants of a long dead legion. I can imagine that if the Hive Mind thought it necessary then the sheer weight of numbers would tell against the Necron, even if there was minimal biomass to be gained.

I honestly think that even if it came down to those being the only two things left in the universe they'd still avoid each-other like a plague. Tyranids lose all biomass directed at Necrons in a battle as A) Necrons cannot be broken down or eaten due to the Phase Out and the fact that they're made of Necrodermis and B) Guass weaponry would leave no biomass behind for the Tyranids to consume after the battle. Necrons also lose out because they gain no souls from a Tyranid defeat and would potentially permanently lose to many in the proses. These sorts of battle will Always end up lose-lose which is why they have yet to fight each-other to date, not counting when the Necrons were BFF's with the BA.

I thought the main point regarding the Necrons was the destruction of life, not necessarily souls. (Why then turn fertile jungles into wasteland if there are no souls to be gained?)

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Azure wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Even if the Necrons wanted to exterminate the Tyranids, do they actually have the capability to do so? Although terrible and ancient, they are but the remants of a long dead legion. I can imagine that if the Hive Mind thought it necessary then the sheer weight of numbers would tell against the Necron, even if there was minimal biomass to be gained.

I honestly think that even if it came down to those being the only two things left in the universe they'd still avoid each-other like a plague. Tyranids lose all biomass directed at Necrons in a battle as A) Necrons cannot be broken down or eaten due to the Phase Out and the fact that they're made of Necrodermis and B) Guass weaponry would leave no biomass behind for the Tyranids to consume after the battle. Necrons also lose out because they gain no souls from a Tyranid defeat and would potentially permanently lose to many in the proses. These sorts of battle will Always end up lose-lose which is why they have yet to fight each-other to date, not counting when the Necrons were BFF's with the BA.

I thought the main point regarding the Necrons was the destruction of life, not necessarily souls. (Why then turn fertile jungles into wasteland if there are no souls to be gained?)

The C'tan are in it for the souls, Necrons will destroy everything out of hate for life.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Azure wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Even if the Necrons wanted to exterminate the Tyranids, do they actually have the capability to do so? Although terrible and ancient, they are but the remants of a long dead legion. I can imagine that if the Hive Mind thought it necessary then the sheer weight of numbers would tell against the Necron, even if there was minimal biomass to be gained.

I honestly think that even if it came down to those being the only two things left in the universe they'd still avoid each-other like a plague. Tyranids lose all biomass directed at Necrons in a battle as A) Necrons cannot be broken down or eaten due to the Phase Out and the fact that they're made of Necrodermis and B) Guass weaponry would leave no biomass behind for the Tyranids to consume after the battle. Necrons also lose out because they gain no souls from a Tyranid defeat and would potentially permanently lose to many in the proses. These sorts of battle will Always end up lose-lose which is why they have yet to fight each-other to date, not counting when the Necrons were BFF's with the BA.

I thought the main point regarding the Necrons was the destruction of life, not necessarily souls. (Why then turn fertile jungles into wasteland if there are no souls to be gained?)

Necrons destroy all life on their specific Tomb Worlds as a way to keep it just that, a Tomb World. A planet devoid of all life even down to the bacteria. Now concerning the souls we know the C'tan want to eat the souls but after that it diverges abit as many sources say the Necrons destroy out of a hatred for life but other sources say that the Necrons are unfeeling and soulless machines devoid of any semblance of personality (save for the Lords). In Dead Men Walking the Necrons are mentioned to be taking slaves for a while and just outright ignoring civilians as they walk past and at other times blasting anything that has the barest spark of life, simply for being alive. I've always followed that the Necrons kill for the souls until a planet is under their control then take slaves as a way to guarantee future souls, seems to make the most sense.

Azure wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Azure wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Even if the Necrons wanted to exterminate the Tyranids, do they actually have the capability to do so? Although terrible and ancient, they are but the remants of a long dead legion. I can imagine that if the Hive Mind thought it necessary then the sheer weight of numbers would tell against the Necron, even if there was minimal biomass to be gained.

I honestly think that even if it came down to those being the only two things left in the universe they'd still avoid each-other like a plague. Tyranids lose all biomass directed at Necrons in a battle as A) Necrons cannot be broken down or eaten due to the Phase Out and the fact that they're made of Necrodermis and B) Guass weaponry would leave no biomass behind for the Tyranids to consume after the battle. Necrons also lose out because they gain no souls from a Tyranid defeat and would potentially permanently lose to many in the proses. These sorts of battle will Always end up lose-lose which is why they have yet to fight each-other to date, not counting when the Necrons were BFF's with the BA.

I thought the main point regarding the Necrons was the destruction of life, not necessarily souls. (Why then turn fertile jungles into wasteland if there are no souls to be gained?)

Necrons destroy all life on their specific Tomb Worlds as a way to keep it just that, a Tomb World. A planet devoid of all life even down to the bacteria. Now concerning the souls we know the C'tan want to eat the souls but after that it diverges abit as many sources say the Necrons destroy out of a hatred for life but other sources say that the Necrons are unfeeling and soulless machines devoid of any semblance of personality (save for the Lords). In Dead Men Walking the Necrons are mentioned to be taking slaves for a while and just outright ignoring civilians as they walk past and at other times blasting anything that has the barest spark of life, simply for being alive. I've always followed that the Necrons kill for the souls until a planet is under their control then take slaves as a way to guarantee future souls, seems to make the most sense.

I thought the c'tan eat stars or am i thinking of something else? :\

They do, but that's in the non-Necrodermis encased form. In their true form they span many many miles and feed off of stars for millennium. In this encased form they prefer the finer delicacy of people.

See this is why I love necrons: robots that run on pure, unleaded hate

In regards to the 'Nids V. Necrons-

If the C'tan prefer soul sandwiches to suns, then wouldn't the Necrons intervene against the Tyranids?
I suppose the Chaos Gods would also agree.
Unless the Shadow in The Warp om nom nom them first.

Necrons and the C'tan are vulnerable to psychics, and the Tyranid hive mind is pure psychic power. If the hive fleets can be breed more zoanthropes and other psychic creatures, then they can defeat the necron armies.

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:
Im not really familiar with Imperium lore but if they can nuke planets like that then why the hell havnt they done it already?

Cause imperium need lots of planets for there overpoplated poplaution and need materials and recurit worlds etc.

The imperiam would give up hope and join chaos thats why i voted imperiam

.

WARORK93 wrote:I will now quote a famous line from "The Grapes of Wrath"

*Ahem* "But we keep a'comin'. We're the people that live. They can't wipe us out; they can't lick us. We'll go on forever, Pa, 'cause we're the people." -Ma Joad

The human spirit, collectively, is an unbreakable thing, as long as there are humans, there will be an Imperium, however small or however large.

I cast my vote for mankind...

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

O.O

Thats the first I've heard of that, I'd be scared to see what would scare the hivemind...

That is a good point; if you look at old night, some pockets of humanity survived, or even thrived.

erm it sais in the nids codex that its not warp based so im not sure how effective it would be

Emperors Faithful wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff.

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

yes thats true, thats just the one i have heard the most, also the one that I read in the codex.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff.

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

yes thats true, thats just the one i have heard the most, also the one that I read in the codex.

Insolence!

J/k - i'm becoming more curious on this matter. In exactly which codex does it state anything of the alike? (Edition? Page?)

I've read both the 4th and the 5th edition Tyranid Codex recently due to this claim got me curious, and i haven't come across anything even CLOSE to the alikes. Far from it! What i DID come across, however, was the speculations about whether or not the current Hive Fleets is but a lesser fraction of the true numbers of the "real fleet".

(As far as i know, the 5th edition explained, that the Leviathan Hive Fleet hasn't been stopped yet, and even more fleets has appeared since the 4th edition codex. Even Hive Fleet Kraken has made another appearence.)


Well, just curious!

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff.

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

yes thats true, thats just the one i have heard the most, also the one that I read in the codex.

I don't like that speculation simply because it doesn't make sense. The Tyranids, by their nature, are driven to consume. They haven't retreated in any fluff. They've just attacked until they were dead, or the enemy was consumed. The closest to retreat has been to either lure enemies into a trap, or go dormant for centuries (after being defeated, that is), and re-awaken when things have cooled down and they can attack undefended worlds. It stems from the opening few paragraphs of the Tyranid codex fluff section, where they are trying to build the mystery behind the race, but that origin just doesn't make sense considering all of the rest of the fluff.

Actually, in fairness to the Tau, they have got OUTRAGEOUSLY advanced technology, so they have a pretty good chance of survival. Pus, they're not as dogmatic as the Imperium or the Eldar.


Tyranids would still win though!

Squigsquasher wrote:Actually, in fairness to the Tau, they have got OUTRAGEOUSLY advanced technology, so they have a pretty good chance of survival. Pus, they're not as dogmatic as the Imperium or the Eldar.


Tyranids would still win though!

tyranids or tau? one device can defend all humanity from the likes of this- The cattlegrid. take the hint IoM.

The Imperium shall endure. Have faith in the Emperor, anything less is heresy. Please report any doubts you may to the Inquisition.

Gridge wrote:The Imperium shall endure. Have faith in the Emperor, anything less is heresy. Please report any doubts you may to the Inquisition.

You say this while having a profile pic of the ALPHA LEGION.