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cattlegrid...

I'm giving it to the Imperium. They're the most powerful organized entity in the galaxy. The Tau are going to go barking up the wrong tree pretty soon, and it's been proven on multiple occasions that the Imperium is capable of using psychic and biological warfare to foil a Tyranid invasion. The Eldar are indeed living on borrowed time and the Dark Eldar are a mere nuisance to all other major players on the galactic stage. The Orks will never unite, and the Necrons aren't able to reproduce themselves limitlessly.

That said, I give Necrons the silver medal. If the Imperium ever collapsed for any reasons, the Necrons would wipe the galaxy clean of life. The C'tan are in it for the souls, true, but what is a soul in the 40k mythos? It's psychic energy, to an extent. What's the hive mind but a soul shared by countless bodies? Couldn't the C'tan feed off the hive mind as it "bleeds" from the permanent death of many of its constituents?

There's also the Star Child and Ynnead prophecies to consider. If either happens, the galaxy is wiped clean(I would assume either newborn god would bring its powers to bear against the Hive Mind and C'tan as well as Chaos) and remnants of the humans, Tau or Eldar would inherit a purified galaxy.

Klawz wrote:

Gridge wrote:The Imperium shall endure. Have faith in the Emperor, anything less is heresy. Please report any doubts you may to the Inquisition.

You say this while having a profile pic of the ALPHA LEGION.

Any member of the legion would tell you just how loyal they are. There's was a great and tragic sacrifice...plus I really like that book and pic.

Billinator wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff.

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

yes thats true, thats just the one i have heard the most, also the one that I read in the codex.

Insolence!

J/k - i'm becoming more curious on this matter. In exactly which codex does it state anything of the alike? (Edition? Page?)

I've read both the 4th and the 5th edition Tyranid Codex recently due to this claim got me curious, and i haven't come across anything even CLOSE to the alikes. Far from it! What i DID come across, however, was the speculations about whether or not the current Hive Fleets is but a lesser fraction of the true numbers of the "real fleet".

(As far as i know, the 5th edition explained, that the Leviathan Hive Fleet hasn't been stopped yet, and even more fleets has appeared since the 4th edition codex. Even Hive Fleet Kraken has made another appearence.)


Well, just curious!

I think we can be assured that the Norn Queens will continue to work tirelessly towards more and more perfectly adapted for killing the inhabitants of this galaxy just as they have in others before ours. Simply put, over the coming centuries we may be out-evolved to the point of extinction.

Magos Biologis Alder Garrick, Codex: Tyranids (4th Edition), page 5

ANYWAYS.....

Adept Garrick doesn't know that they conquered other galaxies any better than Warboss Ghazghkull.

And nobody knows they haven't, its a theory like anything else. Just like I said I read it in the codex...

Orks, Chaos and Nids will prevail in some form or other.

The Empire would most likely prevail but in a tinier state. I can't imagine that the Nids will get enough "manpower" to destroy every single planet.

The Necrons will thankfully finally die from their own lameness. Unfortunately j/k.

Dark Eldar are too insignificant to care about. Eldar are said to die out, which is a shame.

I'm inclined to believe that if either the necrons or the nids were able to wipe the galaxy clean, whilst picking their teeth with the remains of the rest, that the chaos gods would largely subside into nothingness. With no psychic energy (as nids have no warp counterpart and necrons have no soul either) then they would have nothing to worship them or contribute any emotional/psychic energy to their strength, ergo, extinction.
DE would turn into husks with no pain power to restore them, ?Light? eldar are waining, so maybe flee like in LOTR to another galaxy perhaps. Everyone else would be food for either necrons or nids.

Reanimator wrote:I'm inclined to believe that if either the necrons or the nids were able to wipe the galaxy clean, whilst picking their teeth with the remains of the rest, that the chaos gods would largely subside into nothingness. With no psychic energy (as nids have no warp counterpart and necrons have no soul either) then they would have nothing to worship them or contribute any emotional/psychic energy to their strength, ergo, extinction.
DE would turn into husks with no pain power to restore them, ?Light? eldar are waining, so maybe flee like in LOTR to another galaxy perhaps. Everyone else would be food for either necrons or nids.

Chaos will not die out. There is the warp and it's off-limits for Nids and Necrons. And in the warp there a whole worlds of followers. In the Liber Chaotica they made mentions of daemon worlds and even some were normal human people live. Would they lose much of their power if the rest of the galaxy was destroyed? Sure. Would they fade into nothingness? No.

That said, I consider Necrons and Nids always being mentioned as being the definitve winners (especially damn necrons, got shoehorned into the fluff with their stupid c'tan and made super-threatening-awesome-lollololol for the kiddies) is superlame.

Mit Gas wrote:

Reanimator wrote:I'm inclined to believe that if either the necrons or the nids were able to wipe the galaxy clean, whilst picking their teeth with the remains of the rest, that the chaos gods would largely subside into nothingness. With no psychic energy (as nids have no warp counterpart and necrons have no soul either) then they would have nothing to worship them or contribute any emotional/psychic energy to their strength, ergo, extinction.
DE would turn into husks with no pain power to restore them, ?Light? eldar are waining, so maybe flee like in LOTR to another galaxy perhaps. Everyone else would be food for either necrons or nids.

Chaos will not die out. There is the warp and it's off-limits for Nids and Necrons. And in the warp there a whole worlds of followers. In the Liber Chaotica they made mentions of daemon worlds and even some were normal human people live. Would they lose much of their power if the rest of the galaxy was destroyed? Sure. Would they fade into nothingness? No.

That said, I consider Necrons and Nids always being mentioned as being the definitve winners (especially damn necrons, got shoehorned into the fluff with their stupid c'tan and made super-threatening-awesome-lollololol for the kiddies) is superlame.

At least they toned down Tyranids by making them tied with orks.

Mr Nobody wrote:

Mit Gas wrote:

Reanimator wrote:I'm inclined to believe that if either the necrons or the nids were able to wipe the galaxy clean, whilst picking their teeth with the remains of the rest, that the chaos gods would largely subside into nothingness. With no psychic energy (as nids have no warp counterpart and necrons have no soul either) then they would have nothing to worship them or contribute any emotional/psychic energy to their strength, ergo, extinction.
DE would turn into husks with no pain power to restore them, ?Light? eldar are waining, so maybe flee like in LOTR to another galaxy perhaps. Everyone else would be food for either necrons or nids.

Chaos will not die out. There is the warp and it's off-limits for Nids and Necrons. And in the warp there a whole worlds of followers. In the Liber Chaotica they made mentions of daemon worlds and even some were normal human people live. Would they lose much of their power if the rest of the galaxy was destroyed? Sure. Would they fade into nothingness? No.

That said, I consider Necrons and Nids always being mentioned as being the definitve winners (especially damn necrons, got shoehorned into the fluff with their stupid c'tan and made super-threatening-awesome-lollololol for the kiddies) is superlame.

At least they toned down Tyranids by making them tied with orks.

Errr...
What? They haven't done anything of the sort.

Klawz wrote:

Mr Nobody wrote:

Mit Gas wrote:

Reanimator wrote:I'm inclined to believe that if either the necrons or the nids were able to wipe the galaxy clean, whilst picking their teeth with the remains of the rest, that the chaos gods would largely subside into nothingness. With no psychic energy (as nids have no warp counterpart and necrons have no soul either) then they would have nothing to worship them or contribute any emotional/psychic energy to their strength, ergo, extinction.
DE would turn into husks with no pain power to restore them, ?Light? eldar are waining, so maybe flee like in LOTR to another galaxy perhaps. Everyone else would be food for either necrons or nids.

Chaos will not die out. There is the warp and it's off-limits for Nids and Necrons. And in the warp there a whole worlds of followers. In the Liber Chaotica they made mentions of daemon worlds and even some were normal human people live. Would they lose much of their power if the rest of the galaxy was destroyed? Sure. Would they fade into nothingness? No.

That said, I consider Necrons and Nids always being mentioned as being the definitve winners (especially damn necrons, got shoehorned into the fluff with their stupid c'tan and made super-threatening-awesome-lollololol for the kiddies) is superlame.

At least they toned down Tyranids by making them tied with orks.

Errr...
What? They haven't done anything of the sort.

In the 4th edition codex, the Tyranids were diverted against the Orks, now they're in constant turmoil.

The orks would be victorious, if only for the fact that the tyranids are not as infinite as them... they may be able to cleanse a planet of its atmosphere, but they have to take the planet first, and that would not happen. Also, the orks may not be quite as 'smart' as mr. hive mind, but they have superior technology, and their biology is superior... at least for now.
2nd place; necrons... but tomb wolrds can be destroyed. the fact remains that you need a place to reconstruct. just kill their tomb worlds.
Honorary mention; Dark Eldar; they are untouchable; if there is life in the galaxy, their is dark Eldar. They would live in what amounts to peaceful existance with the orks, taking slaves and never dying.

baconlord44 wrote:The orks would be victorious, if only for the fact that the tyranids are not as infinite as them... they may be able to cleanse a planet of its atmosphere, but they have to take the planet first, and that would not happen. Also, the orks may not be quite as 'smart' as mr. hive mind, but they have superior technology, and their biology is superior... at least for now.

lexicanum wrote:On the planet's surface, the small Tyranid swarm cunningly adapted its tactics in order to slowly but surely gather more bio-resources and increase their numbers. When Skarfang, the Ork's leader, was killed by Lictors, the Orks on Ghorala collapsed into infighting and became easy prey for the Tyranids. Each tribe was isolated and destroyed in quick succession until, within weeks, all the Orks on Ghorala had been killed. The bio-resources of the planet were turned into new bio-ships and the Tyranid infestation quickly grew again and spread to nearby Ork worlds.

See? They have no problem defeating Orks.

hmmm. You may have a point mit gas, I had not considered the reckoning of daemon worlds vs nids... what sort (if any) of biomass does that yield? Perhaps the eye of terror, maelstrom etc would hide worlds from the nid/necron advance and preserve some element of chaos, albeit in a drastically weakenend way. I'd be interested to see a campaign or narrative construction around the chaos/nid battle.

Regards orks vs nids, i can see the arguments for both sides gaining in stength due to their battles with each other. You can see how (possibly) elements of imperial forces have had genetic impacts on nid forces, eg tyrant guard from terminators etc, but what new nid lifeforms would result from the ork/nid conflict? I remain to see whether gw will expand on this given the fluff regards the diversion/distraction tactics with orks used by the inquisition to delay the nid adnvance. Personally i'd like to see nids start turning green when they get angry....

It's a little saddening, that The Warp doesn't get too many mentions in any arguments. I believe it has a much larger influence than it gets credit for.

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:Ok so assuming the 40k Universe dukes it out non-stop like they do; at the end of the day what race do you think will be left? Or at least vasty Dominant.
I left Chaos Daemons out of it because...being immortal is cheating
I cant imagine the Imperium (Space Marines, IG, etc) going on forever and i feel like when the imperium goes CSM wont be far behind (assuming they havnt been wiped first)

In the end i can imagine a never ending cycle of war between Nids and Orks. Considering Orks can grow and live in nearly every environment, grow very quikly, and combined with the fact its nearly impossible (short of Exterminatus) to rid a planet of Ork spores i think they can just keep bringing the pace of constant warfare other races wont be able to survive against forever.

Then you have Nids, driven only by the need to feed, but im curious as to what happens when all the fleets (Leviathan, Behemoth, Kraken) Finally all meet? Are they all under the same Hive Mind or will it become a cannibal frenzy anyway? I figure the fleet will reach such a critical mass it wont have any other choice.

War innevitably has a winner. Who's it gonna be Dakka?

Side topic: What race do you think would get to the emperor first? Nids eating whatever is left would be a horrifying conclusion to the human race, so would a warboss siting in his throne

Have you read this from black library ? http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Xenology.html in the bit where they analyse orkoid physiology the servitor talks about how it'd be quite easy to produce a biological weapon which eats away at ork skin / spores. He describes it as a kind of pesticide since the orks are essentially fungus, but then it'd basically be heresy to attempt to create new technology . I could imagine a more technologically advanced race such as the tau creating a weapon like that, or potentially even the necrons as the orks are speculated to have been created by the old ones alongside the eldar to battle the necrontyr.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In the end though I think it comes down to which 40k superpower stirs from there proverbial slumber. I.e the emperor being reborn, Ynnead being born killing slaanesh and allowing the eldar to be resurrected through the warp, the remaining necron gods awakening and allying together, the tau either evolving physically (the xenology book states that by eating the flesh of a psyker a kroot gains psychic powers imagine that but to a larger scale i.e if generations of kroot fed upon the galaxy's finest and adapted to new forms) or even technologically by inventing some kind of super weapon.

I firmly rule chaos out because when the end of days finally comes there wouldn't really be any chaos left to fuel the gods. Im thinking back to a quote from the chaos codex that goes something like "Tzeentch does not desire an end to plotting for that would be the end of ambition and in turn the end of the lord of ambition." you can sort of apply the same to the other gods as well. Personally Id love a giant rhana dhandra esq battle where tau eldar and humanity teams up (temporarily at least) to fight off chaos, the orks, the necrons and the tyranids at some point.

I believe in a sort of tie between Orks, Nids, Necrons (maybe!) and Daemons.

I believe that Orks will be there in the end, simply because they fight and reproduce like crazy, so they're going to be in the fight for a long time, if not one of the "victors".

Nids because as long as there's biomass, there's gonna be Nids. For every person saying "Exterminatus", to completely wipe out the nids, you'd have to pretty much simultaneously exterminate every single hive in existence. Even though it might be possible, it would be pretty damn hard to pull off.

Necrons because when their bodies are burned to a nice pile of dust, they're phased to the nearest tomb world where they just get rebuilt. Like the nids, you'd have to wipe out every single tomb world simultaneously, and if I'm not totally wrong, you'd have to wipe out the C'taan as well. That one might be little hard to pull off as well, especially for the Imperium, since it's speculated that the Void Dragon sleeps within Mars.

And Daemons, simply because.. How the Hell would you eliminate the Warp? It's not a physical place as much as a mindrape to anybody who thinks about it.
The reason I haven't mentioned CSM is that I think they'd be so mutated and twisted in the end that they couldn't count as even remotely Marines.

I would say Imperium, and here is why:
-On a year account they lose around 100 planets, but colonize 1000 more. So there is 500-600 billion star in our galaxy, each with around 9 - 13 planets. That's a lot of planets to colonize...
-And you haven't get in account that other races are fighting themselves. And Imperium has been known to make alliances in several occasions with the Eldar and the Tau.
-It's only the matter of time before Imperium counter the threat of Necrons and Tyranids. They upgrade their existing technology daily, and I am sure that in crisis times they will use new means of technology.
-Now, in the end of 41'st millennium the Imperium is weak. But they are slowly getting their strength back as in last 100 years more worlds have been regain and few have been lost.
-And none is taking in account that the Emperor will return one day. He said that himself, and with him his Primarchs will return and then god help the enemies of Mankind.

But on the realistic side, none race wil get the advantage. Imperium may conquer 90% of the galaxy (70% is already owned) but they will never truly defeat anyone. There is just to much planets in the galaxy to have army everywhere. And I imagine that even if Imperium conquer Tau Empire, surviving Tau will fled somewhere else. And in the end our galaxy will crush into Androida and then we will have interesting set of views...

I think the imperium would win as the vast quantity of theme, not as much as other races but they also have decent technology which is usefull for dealling with xenos races, however if the imperium were succesful then chaos would be as well due to the fact that man is coruptible and there would always be heretics.

The empreror is dying, the imperium doesnt have the abilities to ressurect him, he will die before they get this tech, and so the emperium is screwed cause they wont have the astro thingie that lets them navigate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as much as i hate to say it that means CSM's are pretty much toast because they wont have any new recruits

Brother Coa wrote:I would say Imperium, and here is why:
-On a year account they lose around 100 planets, but colonize 1000 more. So there is 500-600 billion star in our galaxy, each with around 9 - 13 planets. That's a lot of planets to colonize...
-And you haven't get in account that other races are fighting themselves. And Imperium has been known to make alliances in several occasions with the Eldar and the Tau.
-It's only the matter of time before Imperium counter the threat of Necrons and Tyranids. They upgrade their existing technology daily, and I am sure that in crisis times they will use new means of technology.
-Now, in the end of 41'st millennium the Imperium is weak. But they are slowly getting their strength back as in last 100 years more worlds have been regain and few have been lost.
-And none is taking in account that the Emperor will return one day. He said that himself, and with him his Primarchs will return and then god help the enemies of Mankind.

But on the realistic side, none race wil get the advantage. Imperium may conquer 90% of the galaxy (70% is already owned) but they will never truly defeat anyone. There is just to much planets in the galaxy to have army everywhere. And I imagine that even if Imperium conquer Tau Empire, surviving Tau will fled somewhere else. And in the end our galaxy will crush into Androida and then we will have interesting set of views...

The Imperium has more or less stopped colonizing new worlds, only taking back ones that were captured by Chaos.

Orks. They're from one side of the galaxy to the other in abundance and it will be impossible to ever wipe them out completely. Even if the Tyranids consume the galaxy, the Orks and their mobile eco-systems will gradually re-establish themselves and be WAAAGH!ing in no time.

I think the Dark Eldar will eventually survive in their realm as they grow new dark eldar in tubes (exept trueborn of course) but the nids will consume the known galaxy, and the dark eldar will open webway portals in other galaxy's

No...remove the orks from the poll...remove them now!

ORKS WANT an enemy, its like food to them...please don't deny them their fun...

Its not about winning... ITS ABOUT FIGHTI"N WAAAGH

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm surprised that Tyranid are not having a wide lead. The Imperium burned 200 worlds just to give them a fighting chance against this unstoppable force of nature.

So they sacrificed the smallest fraction of a single percent of their worlds (and I believe part of that includes sacrificing most of a single legion of space marines; so less than a tenth of one percent of their space marines (who in all number less than a billionth of a percent of their military) too), in order to cripple a hive fleet, of which there are less than a half dozen currently in Imperial space? The Imperium is not some thinly stretched skein crippled by its own inertia: it's a monolithic entity that dwarfs even the Tyranids, and thrives despite localized failures, absurdities, and its own bureaucratic inertia. Yes, a guard regiment, or world, or several dozen at that, may suffer from all this, but they all make up only the tiniest, most insignificant fragment of the Imperium's power.


That said, the Dark Eldar are the only race that can't actually be threatened in any capacity by any other, as nothing can attack them if they don't choose to allow them (in the most derp part of the new DE codex, Vect lures several space marine chapters into Commoragh to attack his enemies; despite being outnumbered tens of thousands to one by the most advanced race in the galaxy, they retrieve the captured ship, obliterate the noble houses they landed on, and teleport away; I suppose it could be put down to Vect manipulating the situation (I recall a number of defenses "mysteriously" shut down during the battle, allowing their escape), but it's still rage worthy that even in their own codex they're getting trashed by those mutants (whose numbers are so small as to be entirely insignificant in the overall scheme of things; oh wow they can number up to one million that's... less than a billionth of one percent of the Imperium's military population...)). Only other Eldar even have access to the webway, and only the DE have the power to actively manipulate its geography (if you can call it that). Even were all life outside the webway eaten/obliterated by necrons, the Dark Eldar are unassailable, and could just as easily turn on themselves if they ran out of slaves (or perhaps more likely, would actively seek to prevent the obliteration of other life, simply to preserve their sport, perhaps even a breeding and reintroduction program (after all, it's surely more interesting to watch/hunt ragtag bands of survivors on post apocalyptic worlds than see them all die out to a plodding, repetitive machine or swarm of magical space locusts...)), and can always just grow more DE in tubes, so it's not like they'll ever run out of victims...

The way I see it for mankind is that the Emperor will die..... it is an unavoidable event. The IoM will lose the ability to navigate the warp and will be pushed back on every front, maybe to near total defeat. Then as promised the emperor will return and lead massive crusades and defeat the armies closing in on the core planets. With their main military might defeated the IoM will steamroll the now undefended planets held by the enemies of mankind.

@Sir Pseudonymous:
Comorragh isn't unassailable. ( Again Salamanders, rescuing a stolen relic from there ).
Plus cloning has some drawbacks too.

@xXSir MontyXx:
The Emperor is immortal, and since GW put this duty on his shoulders : to be the one and only protection from the demon,
to "move" the background to his 'death' would cause the IoM to turn into a bunch of new EoT's.

Immortal can mean his body can die but his soul live on. He may come back in a new form or a different body or something of the sort.

1hadhq wrote:@Sir Pseudonymous:
Comorragh isn't unassailable. ( Again Salamanders, rescuing a stolen relic from there ).
Plus cloning has some drawbacks too.

Vect opened the gate, and essentially showed them where to go. Three whole chapters attacked Commoragh through the gate Vect jammed open, lost every ship but the one they came to rescue, suffered heavy casualties, and then teleported away with the rescued ship.

There's also no mentioned side effects to their cloning tubes, aside from the products being considered inferior to "True" Dark Eldar. If your only purpose for using them was to create thralls to massacre in entertaining ways, because Magical Space Locusts ate all your toys, I think they'd serve more than well enough.