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I was looking back on GW's site after not playing 40k in a bit, and was pretty amazed how they released a primarch. I have a couple questions about it though.
-Is Gulliman allowed to be in normal games? Or is rising storm it's on thing?

-Is Gulliman good? Not asking for stats, but does he stand a chance against most other armies?

-And if you have played him and recommend him, what kind of army would you build around him? You don't have to go into detail, but like maybe throw some general ideas around maybe?

Thanks in advance

He can be used in normal games, and for a character that's priced at 350 points, he's worth double that. So he's good. Ridiculously so.

Gulliman is a lord of war option for ANY army of the Imperium (so you can take him with a SOB army, a guard army, a space marine army, a admech army)

he's good but has a few weaknesses a savvy player can exploit, he's a MC so he can't join units, and load up on transports, so he's got to hoof it across the battlefield. he could be hurt bad by grav for example, but he's still plenty good

BrianDavion wrote:
Gulliman is a lord of war option for ANY army of the Imperium (so you can take him with a SOB army, a guard army, a space marine army, a admech army)

he's good but has a few weaknesses a savvy player can exploit, he's a MC so he can't join units, and load up on transports, so he's got to hoof it across the battlefield. he could be hurt bad by grav for example, but he's still plenty good

The 3++ invuln save sort of negates a lot of the impact of Grav to be honest. Hoofing it isn't that much of an issue with you consider how durable he is - he's far superior to the Avatar, Greater Daemons or Hive Tyrants on foot who are in the same position in turns of durability.

A 2+/3++, 6 Wounds, EW, Fleet and the ability to get back up on his feet makes footslogging less of an issue to be honest. Add to that Precision Shots and Strikes it means even with what little shooting he has he's still singling out characters and special weapons etc.

Also he's got an ap2 heavy bolter. There are 2 negatives I can see are him being an MC so no."look out sir " and no assault grenades. I couldn't believe he was really that cheap. Especially with his Roboute protocols.

Dantes_Baals wrote:
Also he's got an ap2 heavy bolter. There are 2 negatives I can see are him being an MC so no."look out sir " and no assault grenades. I couldn't believe he was really that cheap. Especially with his Roboute protocols.

Don't think lack of grenades is much of issue with his durability. Also wasn't there some formation that gives him LOS with that formations unit? Though of course more points.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Gulliman is a lord of war option for ANY army of the Imperium (so you can take him with a SOB army, a guard army, a space marine army, a admech army)

he's good but has a few weaknesses a savvy player can exploit, he's a MC so he can't join units, and load up on transports, so he's got to hoof it across the battlefield. he could be hurt bad by grav for example, but he's still plenty good

The 3++ invuln save sort of negates a lot of the impact of Grav to be honest. Hoofing it isn't that much of an issue with you consider how durable he is - he's far superior to the Avatar, Greater Daemons or Hive Tyrants on foot who are in the same position in turns of durability.

A 2+/3++, 6 Wounds, EW, Fleet and the ability to get back up on his feet makes footslogging less of an issue to be honest. Add to that Precision Shots and Strikes it means even with what little shooting he has he's still singling out characters and special weapons etc.

ohh definatly, he's a FANTASTIC character, those weaknesses aren't too big a deal. I'm pointing them out simply in the intreast of noting them, I am very much NOT of the mind that "OMG he doesn't move as fast as a jetbike and have a 2++ re-rollable he sucks" to be honest I'm not sure I can think of any way they could have improved it and still stuck to the feel of the character

It sounds though that if an Avatar of Khaine gets into combat with him, he's going to be stuck. He's got armor to ward off blows, but the avatar is immune to his attacks (soul blaze automatically). So he can deal with a lot. But there is a troll-counter to him.

I love that he has fearless so he can't use Our Weapons Are Useless to back out of the avatar fight.

If the Space Marine player lets an Avatar into combat with Guilliman, they are bad and should feel bad.

The Emperor invented Grav for a reason, battle brothers!

Edit: Guilliman is alright if hes unsupported by Psykers, and a murder machine if he is. I dont think hes worth easily worth double his points as an above poster over exaggerated, but he is fairly good. Keep him near something the enemy wants to charge, and make em risk getting a fisting full of Guilliman.

He seems bizzarely designed when weighed against the 30k Primarchs (who aren't MCs and can join units/enter vehicles).

The 30k Primarchs are relatively fairly priced at 400-500pts apeice (Magnus may be underpriced and Angron is definitely overpriced), seeing Guilliman with similar performance in most areas weighing in at 350pts without the ability to join units/use transports doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.

I don't get why people are gushing over the Gulliman's rules, they're not that great.

He won't be able to pick his fights because he is among the slowest units in the game. There is a reason why a daemon prince without wings is utter gak and a Daemon prince with wings is great. Gulliman is basically a +1 Daemon prince without wings.

Hell, a knight is superior to him in just about every way for 25 more points.

He's alright, but as pointed out a few times here, he suffers from severe speed issues. Yes, anything (other than an Avatar) that Roboute gets his big blue hands on is toast, but without a transport or anything to boost his speed to more than 6" + charge range/run per turn, the amount of damage he will cause will ultimately be determined by how much his opponent lets him touch.

Guilliman is a character whos stats, equipment, special rules and paraphernalia total out to just over a thousand points. He knows every Command Warlord trait, is incredibly tanky with a 2+/3++ plus FNP plus Eternal Warrior, incredibly shooty with a BS 6 Assault3 A6 AP2 heavy bolter, hits like a gak brickhouse with 6 attacks base, plus two CCw, plus all the buffs the Emperors own pimpstick gives him (including 'D' close combat hits on a 6), not to mention all the other special rules he has....

Yeah, a 1000ish point model priced at 350 points is more than worth taking.

As usual he is either:

Rubbish and useless and overpointed (as he is too slow)

Super OP and breaks the game.

Well, if you have massed 'D' or massed grav he should be doable. Or Tau shooting. Just.
Anything else and your fethed.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Guilliman is a character whos stats, equipment, special rules and paraphernalia total out to just over a thousand points. He knows every Command Warlord trait, is incredibly tanky with a 2+/3++ plus FNP plus Eternal Warrior, incredibly shooty with a BS 6 Assault3 A6 AP2 heavy bolter, hits like a gak brickhouse with 6 attacks base, plus two CCw, plus all the buffs the Emperors own pimpstick gives him (including 'D' close combat hits on a 6), not to mention all the other special rules he has....

Yeah, a 1000ish point model priced at 350 points is more than worth taking.

He has two CCWs? I didn't know that.

And while I'd argue he's worth more than 350, he is NOT a 1,000 point model.

Yeah. A Knight is faster, hits with more D, and has better guns.

Guilliman's a tank no doubt, but he doesn't seem that hard to handle either. If it's unreasonable to try to kill him, then avoid him. As an MC you're going to see him coming from a mile away.

Guilliman's a tank no doubt, but he doesn't seem that hard to handle either. If it's unreasonable to try to kill him, then avoid him. As an MC you're going to see him coming from a mile away.

Agree. He's crazy powerful for his cost because you might not get to use him on anything worthy of his abilities. He's very easy to kite and bubble wrap against. I'll gladly let him mulch a unit of 10 Kroot or 5 Fire Warriors for an extra shooting phase. Most of the time, it's best to just kill his army out from under him, screening your important units as necessary.

So you're saying he can't win a dance-off with the harlequins? Uncle Emps is gonna be unhappy.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Guilliman is a character whos stats, equipment, special rules and paraphernalia total out to just over a thousand points. He knows every Command Warlord trait, is incredibly tanky with a 2+/3++ plus FNP plus Eternal Warrior, incredibly shooty with a BS 6 Assault3 A6 AP2 heavy bolter, hits like a gak brickhouse with 6 attacks base, plus two CCw, plus all the buffs the Emperors own pimpstick gives him (including 'D' close combat hits on a 6), not to mention all the other special rules he has....

Yeah, a 1000ish point model priced at 350 points is more than worth taking.

He has two CCWs? I didn't know that.

And while I'd argue he's worth more than 350, he is NOT a 1,000 point model.

He has two weapons whcih are combined into one profile for close combat - does that count as two CCWs? Not sure it does.

BrianDavion wrote:
Gulliman is a lord of war option for ANY army of the Imperium (so you can take him with a SOB army, a guard army, a space marine army, a admech army)

Actually he can't. The faction symbol on his data sheet is Space Marines. Only Space Marines with Ultramarine Chapter Tactics can take him as a Lord of War.

The only way to take him in other Imperial armies is through the Triumvirate of the Primarch formation.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Gulliman is a lord of war option for ANY army of the Imperium (so you can take him with a SOB army, a guard army, a space marine army, a admech army)

Actually he can't. The faction symbol on his data sheet is Space Marines. Only Space Marines with Ultramarine Chapter Tactics can take him as a Lord of War.

The only way to take him in other Imperial armies is through the Triumvirate of the Primarch formation.

The symbol means nothing. Celestine has Adepta Sororitas' symbol, Cawl has the AdMech symbol, Greyfax has Inquisition...all three can be included in any Imperium army.

From the actual book:
"This section includes four datasheets – the mysterious Cypher (pg 120), the Fallen (pg 122), Grand Master Voldus of the Grey Knights (pg 124) and Roboute Guilliman, the Primarch of the Ultramarines himself (pg 128). Grand Master Voldus and Roboute Guilliman are new Army List Entries that can be included in any Armies of the
Imperium Detachment, regardless of their Faction."

 mmzero252 wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Gulliman is a lord of war option for ANY army of the Imperium (so you can take him with a SOB army, a guard army, a space marine army, a admech army)

Actually he can't. The faction symbol on his data sheet is Space Marines. Only Space Marines with Ultramarine Chapter Tactics can take him as a Lord of War.

The only way to take him in other Imperial armies is through the Triumvirate of the Primarch formation.

The symbol means nothing. Celestine has Adepta Sororitas' symbol, Cawl has the AdMech symbol, Greyfax has Inquisition...all three can be included in any Imperium army.

From the actual book:
"This section includes four datasheets – the mysterious Cypher (pg 120), the Fallen (pg 122), Grand Master Voldus of the Grey Knights (pg 124) and Roboute Guilliman, the Primarch of the Ultramarines himself (pg 128). Grand Master Voldus and Roboute Guilliman are new Army List Entries that can be included in any Armies of the
Imperium Detachment, regardless of their Faction."

See the above reply? That's the rules.

So before you state something contrary, read the gorram book first

Faction symbol is meaningless for Guilliman in terms of choosing him for an army. He follows the same selection rules as Cawl, Greyfax and Celestine do, much like the Ynnari triumvirate do the same with Eldar/DE/Harlequin armies.

The only character who is slightly different is Cypher - as he doesn't take up a Force Org slot and behaves differently if taken as part of a Fallen formation with alliance levels.

In the other persons' defense, that is ONLY stated two pages before the start of the datasheets. It's on a big page of text (granted it's literally the first thing the page says), but the page seems rather filled with unnecessary things.

There's nothing noting this exception on any of their individual datasheets.

Bobby is decent, and he can be a wrecking ball if the mission forces the units to gather or stay somewhere static, like relic or emperor's will.

But in most games his low mobility just keeps him from being a competitive choice, especially in maelstrom or tourney games that incorporate maelstrom like ITC. He will essentially be a 350 point 3 shot gun that is giving you doctrines and rerolls of 1's for days, at least until the dudes around him have all been shot to death. He pretty much has "carnifex-itis."

In most cases I would rather have a knight in his place.

 mmzero252 wrote:
In the other persons' defense, that is ONLY stated two pages before the start of the datasheets. It's on a big page of text (granted it's literally the first thing the page says), but the page seems rather filled with unnecessary things.

There's nothing noting this exception on any of their individual datasheets.

It's nice to know GW still know how to write a book with the rules scattered randomly throughout instead of all in one place

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:
In the other persons' defense, that is ONLY stated two pages before the start of the datasheets. It's on a big page of text (granted it's literally the first thing the page says), but the page seems rather filled with unnecessary things.

There's nothing noting this exception on any of their individual datasheets.

It's nice to know GW still know how to write a book with the rules scattered randomly throughout instead of all in one place

They haven't even learned how to write decently balanced rules...You think they would understand how the flow of information should go?

If Guilliman was not a monstrous creature, then yeah, he would be strong. It's debatable if he would be imperial knight level (which is probably the go-to LoW for imperial armies) if he were not a monstrous creature as he replaces superior offensive power of an imperial knight (from shooting, melee/stomps, and general speed) for more durability and utility.

All the potential offensive punch of Guilliman does not mean much if he cannot use it. There are quite a few examples of monstrous creatures with offensive punch who rarely get to use it due to footslogging, wingless daemon princes, wingless hive tyrant, skarbrand, the avatar, swarmlord, etc.

Is he a fun, fluffy model that I will use in my games? Most certainly!

Is he the second coming of the wraithknight? No, he is not.

 mmzero252 wrote:
In the other persons' defense, that is ONLY stated two pages before the start of the datasheets. It's on a big page of text (granted it's literally the first thing the page says), but the page seems rather filled with unnecessary things.

There's nothing noting this exception on any of their individual datasheets.

Yes, I missed that. Thank you for the information.