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Hellfury wrote:Oddly enough, the time visitors spend on specific game pages figures in to what is in the hotness list. Dont ask me why, this is just what the mods there have revealed.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/125326/sedition-wars-battle-for-alabaster

So just opening that link and leaving it open would work?

Hellfury wrote:* Additional map tiles. Making one or two new map tiles is purely a graphic design hurdle and easier to do than milling a new mold for models.

Or doing the boards single-sided, or releasing the boards separately as an added extra. Or both!

I'd buy both... I'm a complete tile'o'phile...

I think it's much more likely to be the level of activity on a page, rather than how long you have the page open; so it would be the number of hits a product page gets as well as how active the sub-forum is.


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H.B.M.C. wrote:I'd buy both... I'm a complete tile'o'phile...

Is that a known medical condition?

Actually - it is!

Sadly, there is no cure, so to speak, only means to lessen the suffering...

So WotC are actually secretly a pharmaceutical company? it explains a few things...

A nice post from Mike. Especially prudent for those with existing Vanguard minis:

Mike wrote:
We definitely have plans for rolling those original Vanguard miniatures into the game, at the very least we'll provide stats for them, so they are playable. We see them as a different type of Vanguard trooper - obviously without the protection of the Prophet armour though.

If you're already insterested in the game, what do you gain by waiting rather than pledging now and showing your interest as soon as possible?

If it were a year ago, absolutely.

The only reason I am waiting so far with my Kickstarter pledge is that it's all well and good to be able to drop hundreds of dollars on miniatures, multiple Kickstarters, and Forgeworld Titans. Those that are well-off enough to do that in this economy, I applaud them. But I'm a bit hesitant about the extras I want to get with SW.

Because unfortunately, I also have a "pledge" of my own, it's called "getting married" on the day the Kickstarter ends. I would love to get the Biohazard level, the terrain, Ridley and the Opticamo Vanguard- but it hurts when that's $170 on a day that I am already "in" for $5,000 on something else...........

I'm excited personally about the second Grendlr. I think the two of them will make awesome plastic Tyrand Guard w/whips. Add in the Brimstones as my new Hive Guard and I'm a happy camper.

I would like the option to buy additional Lvl 3 Strain sets (similar to the stretch goal) and grav tanks. Just from a personal perspective as I'd like to have 9 Brimstones or at least 6 and currently without buying two full boxsets I can only get 4

im sure there will be plenty of people looking to swap there strain for vanguard then they recive them so you shouldnt have much of a problem getting more brimstones.

But I want my Vanguard too

I'd also like to pick up more Hurley's on the side for some conversion ideas I have

lol greedy

Pretty models means I wanna use them

Having read through all this, it's important to note that the biggest grossing Kickstarters usually make 20-25% of their total gross in the last 3-4 days of their time. I think this one will most likely be the same.

Stretch goals to accomplish that, and ratchet up the "social excitement", which this site is explicitly for, is the way to do that. However, free items for the base cost are not necessarily the way to do it. These provide great value for the investor, but do not ratchet up the actual investment for the company.

Here are some stretch goals that might actually do this:

1. As some of these models/goals aren't shipping until next year already, why not offer the next expansion, at $60-$75, as it's already been stated to be a smaller expansion. This would cover the angst that some feel over wanting more boards, as well as introduce the Fire Brand. Another goal beyond that would be to add more Fire Brand to that Kickstarter set. This would also segue funds towards that expansion, allowing it to be developed earlier.

2. Since we have a plethora of figures now, how about some Necromunda-esqe Skirmish Rules, where your figures grow and are persistent. Strain start out as level 1s, and you gain abilities or can put those points towards morphing into the bigger Strains. Vanguard start out as grunts, working up to being famed captains, snipers and medics. I'd prefer this much more than multiple one off games, and we have enough minis to support 4 or 5 people playing with just the base game. Releasing these rules digitally would mean low actual cost, but provide maximum return to investors. A further stretch goal would be a "customization" pack, of things like tentacles, claws, etc for the Strain, pistol arms, HTH arms etc for Vanguard, so that players can upgrade their figures as they gain skills and abilities. This is the perfect avenue to entice players to have the camo and GiTD figures, as these are now viable upgrades in a persistant skirmish system. Opticamo means stealthy movement, minuses to hit (or a plus to the armor rating). GiTD can mean that they are super Strain, more resilient, higher amor, etc etc. More sales of these means more goals reached.

3. If all we want is to go for an overall dollar figure, then visualizing and offering more one-off figures like Ripley and her strain double are the way to go. This adds more money to the overall Kickstarter, while delivering value to pledger. The dice they offered were ok on this one, I just don't the designs really captured everyone. I've read where a lot of people are clamoring for GiTD dice. This is another easy way to up the pledges, as it is what your gaggle of pledgers are asking for. On another Kickstarter, an additional Die was added to your game with each $ dollar level reached. This Kickstarter could easily do this in $50k, $75k or $100k increments. Also, I personally am not nostalgic about the numbers on the Dice, as 1980s D&D dice don't do it for me. I'd prefer to see regular dice, with one or two graven images on them, as in this game it's really just the 6s that count.

4. McVey Studios keeps hinting that there will be larger models for both the Strain and Vanguard. Why not offer these up for sale? They won't be any good til the tabletop game is released, but why not introduce them now, when they'll make the most splash. The Vanguard will probably have some kind of techy looking suits. Maybe the Strain have a Hulk or four armed Behemoth.

5. Looking at other Kickstarters, and their pledging levels, this one hasn't opened up an avenue that I think a lot of people would jump at. Why not have a pledge level where people can be incorporated into the game. I.E. At this $ amount, you will be written into the fluff as an elite Vanguard Lieutenant/Sniper/Engineer/Scientist etc, or why not have alt copies of the Strain, kind of like patient zero's, where the pledger works with the Studio to reach the end model. Or you could be a Fire Brand revolutionary. These are all ways to up their operating capital while giving value to those pledgers. Offer to make someone the evil corporate head that Kara was talking about in one of the fiction pieces that we got. This is the most cost efficient way to get people to become invested in your universe, to kick the feeling of your game and its setting into overdrive for some people, as they become immortalized in word and print. Plus, it will help drive the background and fluff, as the Studio writes more, in turn making more people want to immerse themselves in the broader and deeper universe that you are giving them.


Etc. CMoN should really be on top of this. I know that the middle period is usually sluggish, but why cater to that with sluggish goals? You only get your fixed shot at this, so why not bring your A game to the table. I know that this Kickstarter is still garnering a large amount of attention each day, but there have been some lackluster goals lately. The AI Drone and Grendlr are great, but the other stuff has been kind of ho hum. I am wanting more content, something to broaden it. No, not content as in physical figures, but CONTENT. Make the game better, make it continue. Follow up where GW delivered big time with Space Hulk, but couldn't be bothered to deliver anything else. Super Dungeon Explore is fantastic. But if you can't deliver expansion, new rules or anything else within 6 months, then the excitement has moved on to something else. Given a choice, I really want a persistent skirmish game, and this looks like it has all the hallmarks to be one.

Well said.

I'd agree that the One-off figures at this point would probably be one of only two ways to get me to increase my intial amounts. The one-offs with their strain versions would be amazing. I'd point out that one of the largest surges so far was when Ripley and the Terrain set came out.

I'd also agree that there is nothing wrong with starting to use this for the expansion. If you have ideas and concepts then you can run wild as the funding will be there for you. Get the expansion set-up with model types and characters (allowing more one-off type characters since they could be for other factions) while the iron is hot.

This would allow you to focus on getting the expansion ready to launch within 6ish months of Sedition Wars and the next Kickstarter could be for the skirmish/tabletop game which I think would explode for it.

I agree. I think you have to keep putting out new content, or you are going to lose some of your customer base. Just look at all the big companies, they continually offer new "things" for their games, to keep the interest up. I think in this digital age though, that taking more of what your customer base wants to see and delivering it is a much smarter idea. Giving the public what the company thinks is a great idea, isn't always a great idea. Just look to GW and whatever they call the new SM mini flyer.

Also, some character growth would be great. Super Dungeon Explore is great, and gives us the video game feel of loot grabbing, but it doesn't deliver the character evolution. I want my cute little chibi guy to get better, to go from armor toting knight to paladin to cavalier. Instead, I get to loot grab. And the extreme wait between expansions is already shedding customer base. No content hits on their website, no real bleeps on the radar minus at a convention or two, and then not any big splashes of information hyping anything to keep the interest up.

I just hope that this board game feeds into a much deeper, richer gaming experience. Tabletop, Persistent Skirmish, Novels. Hell, they're foolish if they don't have someone doing short multi-page fluff pieces to sprinkle liberally across the internet and their site. They should do it 1940s era newspaper Serial style. Keep a running story going, giving out a page or three every other day or so, sinking that hook deeper and deeper into the mouths of all the ravenous fish, er, gamers that are already hooked on their setting. What better way to keep the current interest going, drum up new interest in people being exposed for the first time, and to generally just spread the word about theit project and game. Digital media is the ultimate expression for today. Being able to get that media to move about the internet on its own should be their goal. That would attract more backers and investors. Unfortunately, through no fault of their own, as the Studio is a miniatures design company, their cooperative partner is not marketing their brand as functionally and effectively as is possible, especially with the level of response noted since this Kickstarter began.

Salacious Greed wrote:I just hope that this board game feeds into a much deeper, richer gaming experience. Tabletop, Persistent Skirmish, Novels.

You may well get the novels:

Rob Baxter wrote:"If we hit $500,000 I'll write a novel. I'm going to regret saying that."
"If we hit a million, I'll write a trilogy."

Hellfury wrote:* Additional map tiles. Making one or two new map tiles is purely a graphic design hurdle and easier to do than milling a new mold for models.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Or doing the boards single-sided, or releasing the boards separately as an added extra. Or both!

Since the boards are double sided (presumably with no duplication) and they are already printing them, they could simply offer an extra set of boards, which would double the size of the game board.

T

I'd be happy with that.

timd wrote:

Hellfury wrote:* Additional map tiles. Making one or two new map tiles is purely a graphic design hurdle and easier to do than milling a new mold for models.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Or doing the boards single-sided, or releasing the boards separately as an added extra. Or both!

Since the boards are double sided (presumably with no duplication) and they are already printing them, they could simply offer an extra set of boards, which would double the size of the game board.

T

Almost need it with all the miniatures, that would also make it far easier to do skirmish type games.

Not that I wouldn't love more tiles, but as far as I know the squares are inches, so go grid-less and just convert the "squares" to inches and set up a free-form battlefield like you would for other skirmish games.

That's what I'm gonna be doing. Doing the exact same thing with my copy of Tyranid Attack (the US version of Advanced Space Crusade) is what got me into WH40K (and all tabletop wargaming in general) all those years (17 of them!!) ago.

Half the reason I want this game with all it's extra stretch goal minis is to do that all over again now that I'm 30.

AegisGrimm wrote:Not that I wouldn't love more tiles, but as far as I know the squares are inches, so go grid-less and just convert the "squares" to inches and set up a free-form battlefield like you would for other skirmish games.

That's what I'm gonna be doing. Doing the exact same thing with my copy of Tyranid Attack (the US version of Advanced Space Crusade) is what got me into WH40K (and all tabletop wargaming in general) all those years (17 of them!!) ago.

Half the reason I want this game with all it's extra stretch goal minis is to do that all over again now that I'm 30.

THAT would be a good extra: tiles without grid, $25 or so added extra.
then next up a lot more 3D terrain to go with it for $lots it would be a nice boost

AlexHolker wrote:

Rob Baxter wrote:"If we hit $500,000 I'll write a novel. I'm going to regret saying that."
"If we hit a million, I'll write a trilogy."

Rob won't be the only one regretting that, I'm sure.

I know it has been mentioned a few times, but I think a set of Phase 1 infected versions of the four Vanguard characters as an add-on would be a good goal - gives you "custom" Strain to use when a notable hero goes down...

AlexHolker wrote:

Salacious Greed wrote:I just hope that this board game feeds into a much deeper, richer gaming experience. Tabletop, Persistent Skirmish, Novels.

You may well get the novels:

Rob Baxter wrote:"If we hit $500,000 I'll write a novel. I'm going to regret saying that."
"If we hit a million, I'll write a trilogy."

Persistent Skirmish (necromunda-style) rules would be fab. I don't give two hoots about the fluff though. I'm just over "new and not-at-all-unique" campaign settings for various tabletop games. Same deal with videogames, really. There are just too many new IPs for me to care about any of them in terms of IP. Just as with computer and video games, I'll happily play the games if they're fun, but it's going to be very hard to make me actually care about the characters in Sedition Wars, just as I don't care about Marcus Fenix or Master Chief or whoever the protaganists are in the Resistance series.

It's a rare IP indeed that interests me beyond the game. 40k really only gets a pass due to it being created in my formative years and having grown up with it. Warcraft gets a pass because I've spent a lot of time deep in there over the last decade. While I liked Medal of Honor, do I care about Rabbit? Can I remember which one he is? Does the atmospheric intro to Sedition Wars really do anything amazing or new or is it just paragraph of recycled Aliens-wannabe fluff? Where's that LEVEL 7 [Escape] thread?

So yeah. Nice miniatures, great value, hopefully the game kicks arse. Don't care about the fluff in the slightest, and if the game turns out to be gakky I've gotten a great value deal on a huge pile of very good quality miniatures that I can use for anything else I like. I've got no problems with SW at this stage, but I don't think they need to rush out an expansion either.




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timd wrote:

Hellfury wrote:* Additional map tiles. Making one or two new map tiles is purely a graphic design hurdle and easier to do than milling a new mold for models.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Or doing the boards single-sided, or releasing the boards separately as an added extra. Or both!

Since the boards are double sided (presumably with no duplication) and they are already printing them, they could simply offer an extra set of boards, which would double the size of the game board.

They're already giving away pretty much a full set of extra models and dice. An extra set of freebie boards would basically be giving away a second set of each game. Besides, floor tiles and boards on any decent kinds of cardstock are heavy as all hell. As a pay-for extra, sure. But if you want them that bad you can always buy a second Biohazard set (ie "We've got Movement"), which is what I plan to do at this stage. I mean, I want lots of stuff as much as the next guy, but I want them to have much success with this, so I ironically wouldn't want them giving too much more away for free in terms of stuff you already get in the box. That's why the painting DVD and extra campaign work so well.

OTOH, I wouldn't be willing to pay an extra $60 or $70 sight unseen for an expansion for a game I haven't played, don't know if I'll like and won't even have in my hands until Sept-Oct.

Personally I enjoy fluff, and think that it helps give a game a context and depth beyond the likes of Monoploy or Connect 4.

I'd go as far as saying, IMHO, a game in the Tabletop wargaming and RPG genre NEEDS fluff in order to generate growth and further development, otherwise, in this case, if Studio McVey does go forward to create expansions and other game formats, what would be the context??

I love playing Chess and Risk, these are games that are "largely" devoid of any fluff, and they're great pick up and put down games.....

Delephont wrote:Personally I enjoy fluff, and think that it helps give a game a context and depth beyond the likes of Monoploy or Connect 4.

I'd go as far as saying, IMHO, a game in the Tabletop wargaming and RPG genre NEEDS fluff in order to generate growth and further development, otherwise, in this case, if Studio McVey does go forward to create expansions and other game formats, what would be the context??

I love playing Chess and Risk, these are games that are "largely" devoid of any fluff, and they're great pick up and put down games.....

I understand where you're coming from - I used to really be interested in fluff, but over the years (between RPGs, Miniatures games and video/computer games) I've seen so many generic fantasy and sci-fi worlds/universes that are pretty much all 90% similar to one another that I've stopped caring about almost any of them. Fluff burnout maybe? Remember Warzone? I've got books and books of rules and fluff from that game that noone will ever care about again. I'm thinking a bunch of those models will see some new life with Incursion, though.

Since this is a boardgame, so at the moment it doesn't really need much fluff beyond the very basic level this one has. When they go to expand it, I'll grant that it'll need more of it then, but I'd much prefer they stick to making games than getting too distracted by doing things like writing derivitive sci-fi novels. I'm not saying game-based fluff is a particularly bad thing or anything like that - just that I'm personally never going to care about another game's worth of derivative hack sci-fi or fantasy writing. Because there are too many of these "universes" around, and most really aren't much different to one another, so I'm pretty much over them all. SW's universe from what I can tell may as well be the same as the Alien franchise.

@Scipio.au

I understand what you mean, and to a large extent I agree, most of the Sci Fi fluff really just mirrors everything else....

I disagree that a company needs to focus on the Game or the fluff exclusively, the two could be done in parallel if the investment is there to "outsource" the writing etc, leaving the original company to focus on its core competence - in this case for Studio McVey that may be the games development.

Another thing to consider, when we think about fluff, "we" I guess figure on the fluff somehow supporting the game directly, so what I mean is, because it's a war game, the books should all be about war and the bearing of arms.....this is generally the format that companies like GW have explored.

I'd like to see companies thinking outside the box, as it were, fluff IMHO is an opportunity to explore the particular games setting away from the drudge of constant conflict, maybe focusing on politics, everyday life, entertainment, basically all the other interesting stuff that makes up a society, of which war is only really a small part.

Just going slightly off topic, Infinity is a setting that could really explore this, imagine a book focused on the production , politics and suspense surrounding the Silk drug used for their reincarnation program....sure there would be aspects of the book that discussed "fighting" but the book wouldn't be a big war-fired extravaganza that GW seems obsessed with producing.

I dare say the same could be said about Sedition Wars......now that would be fluff worth getting into, and I think it would make the game so much richer for its creation.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "exclusively". I'm not averse to having a bunch of fluff text within the rulebook (similar to a GW codex), and if they were to produce a tabletop RPG, then of course all that stuff is useful and needs to be explored. But for miniatures and especially boardgames.. not so much. Fluff within the rules is plenty for those, I'd think.

I know next to nothing about Infinity, so I'll decline from specific comment, but it seems to be yet another sci-fi setting where the earth has broken up into new factions that aren't called America and Russia and China and are simply somewhat kind of based on them (see, Warzone, WarMachine, et al). I do like their non-GrimDark visual style, but even if I invested in a force and had people to play against I doubt I'd get too far into the Pan-Oceanic federation's reasons for being. But for SW, I just see the finances needed to write and publish a book and then get it into book distribution channels to be a bit of a big undertaking for a very small, 2-person company about to release their very first game. I wonder how much (wasted) effort is going into LEVEL 7 on PP's part? I'd like to see Mike work on what he does well and slowly expand that - which is what he's doing now. Books and such can come later, but while the kickstarter is a runaway success, the game is not yet one, so that's where the focus should be for the next however long it needs to be...

Just though I would tell everyone that SW has made it on to "The Hotness" list for Board Game Geek. Hopefully this will give it more attention and interest, and help achieve some more stretch goals.

Wow... if they had the option for the whole thing to be glow in the dark, I don't think I'd be able to resist

Luckily, I don't think they will!

@Scipio.au

I agree with you about this being a board game. However, I believe that the entire intent with this enterprise is to end at a tabletop wargame. So, they should be striving towards that end. I don't believe they were ready for the runaway success that this Kickstarter is. It is kind of evident with the stretch goals. I believe that we're already past the point of diminishing returns on their box set. They've pretty much already doubled every miniature in the game, so just counters and tiles remain to be doubled, and they've already upgraded the counters.

Saying that they can better market their game by giving us a better understanding about their universe isn't something they COULD do. It's something they should be doing! Strike while the iron is hot. Cash in on the branding. And talking about fluff in context to the characters in this game, I am with you. I won't be attached to any of these characters. I was talking about being attached to characters as they grow in a persistent skirmish environment, meaning characters I've made, that I attach value to over the course of the skirmish games I play. And come on, you know there's going to be one zombie that just doesn't die in your games that you'll become attached to, or being on the other side, you'll start sacrificing guys just to kill him during your skirmish games. But this being JUST a boardgame, where I can queue up the same figures in the next scenario regardless, just doesn't do it for me. 40k allows me to use real tactics. This game seems to devolve into chokepoints on a fixed board. I'm not seeing any depth of play right now, and this Kickstarter seems to be more about an initial figure grab for a later tabletop game.

But back to the main point. With the success of this Kickstarter, they should have someone write a novel in parallel, so that it can hit the market shortly after this game ships. Because right now, all we really know about their setting is that it is a rebellion on the fringes of Human space, and the Strain has just started as an infection in the middle of the Vanguard putting down the Firebrand rebellion. We don't know anything about the actual Core Corporate Army, or any of the alien species encountered in the Human expansion. So they could give us a novel detailing the rebellion, and how this viral infection grows into a plague, but seems to have a focus and goals. It could also set the overall atmosphere of the setting, and how star systems and planets are governed, and whether there are competing corporations, or just the one. Etc ad nauseum. But they should actually be spoon feeding us some of this stuff DAILY! Hell, how do you have something this successful, and we don't hear from you or your distributor every day?

As to you saying that the focus should be on the game. How? They can't give us anything more on the game until it's in our hands. The game is complete. It was most likely finished when they began the kickstarter. The Studio demo'd it in 2011 at GenCon. There can't be anymore focus on the game. I agree that the game isn't a runaway success. We haven't played it. I think it will end up like Space Hulk. Something that was fun for a bit. But leave us all wanting something a bit more. Give me more rules, make it mean something. There isn't anything in Space Hulk that broadens the gameplay, or makes it deeper. Nothing that makes it meaningful or enduring. Playing Risk isn't about the board or the pieces, it's about who you're playing against, and your tactics given a random start. It seems, from reading the playtesters remarks on the Studio forums, that this game will really become about controlling choke points on the few maps that can be made. So, regardless of finding new opponents, games will become repetitive, just like space hulk. See, space hulk doesn't even deserve capital letters anymore. It gathers dust on a shelf, because GW one-offed it and couldn't find its way to making money by expanding its gameplay. Having rabbit-holed away from your point though, Studio McVey has nothing but other things to devote their time to. This game is ready to be printed, QC'd, boxed, wrapped and shipped. There is no more gameplay to be figured out. To be a success beyond the close of this Kickstarter, they should be viewing goals and hurdles that are 6 and 12 months out. A company that is only focused on the Now is a company that is failing or already has. Good novels take 9-12 months to see the light of day. A game of this level takes at least 12 months, if not 18 or more. If these guys don't already have more things in the pipeline, already on paper, waiting to go, then I think they'll fall into the same pitfalls that Super Dungeon Explore did, and we won't hear anything from them and the success of this Kickstarter will fizzle out.

Hire some Marketing. Prod your producer! This is like getting a free kick in soccer, you weren't expecting this level of success. Bend it like Beckham, don't kick it in the crowd. Certainly don't slink off the field and let the goalie take the free kick. Nobody wants to see that.

If sedition wars gets popular enough, maybe we'll get an OVA

Hey it worked for Starship Troopers!