Switch Theme:

Crusade experience wanted!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

My local shop is starting to open up tables for play, and there's talk of a Crusade league and the community is open to Crusade pick-up games. I'm super excited. I played a few Crusade games with my friends online 6 months ago, and we learned some lessons, but I'm eager to draw on your experiences.

I found building an Order of Battle to be a different challenge from building an army list. Since you can't tweak small upgrades to fill the points limit, we had to include unusual filler units such as Servitors. That led to more interesting and unexpected games. The Order of Battle also serves as a side-deck to customize against match-ups, and increasing the supply mostly improved that aspect while secondarily enabling larger games. It struck a comfortable balance where it was hard to really list tailor (since the core of the army couldn't change equipment), but encouraged a rivalry and arms-race against common opponents.

We played our games with points, but to minimize compatibility issues, we built our Orders of Battle with power level. I could easily make a legal army for either format out of the same OoB.

It was actually added to the narrative experience that we didn't need to keep track of anyone else's progress. Rather than everyone in a campaign building toward the same narrative, the universe felt more alive since everyone was competing for their own goals. (Not at all to knock campaigns, they should be used in conjunction.) It was great to see the Chaos Lord that escaped my assassination strike force show up two games later with a new relic weapon and more followers blooded against the Necrons.

We've found the Battle Honors weren't very egregious individually, and the risk of experience loss made collecting more than two extremely unlikely. We thought it felt better to pick the Honor you wanted. The Battle Scars, on the other hand, were more contested but actually picking the Battle Scar won out. The trick was that rolling an awful Battle Scar meant you just payed the RP to fix it, and it never mattered. Picking a Scar you can live with actually makes it to the table. The fact that my Dunecrawler is 2" slower doesn't really matter, but the fact that it's had an irreparable bum leg ever since that encounter with the Tyranids is an interesting story.

Still, choice-versus-roll is not a clear trade-off and I'd love to hear your thoughts. What have your general experiences been with Crusades? What have been your best units and secondaries for experience gain? I haven't had a particularly blessed unit yet, though I Marked most units to Blooded within a few games.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







We did a Roll campaign locally, and I have done a Pick campaign on my own with a different army, and I must say that both of them got completely out of hand really quickly.

The "roll" system wasn't super helpful, as everyone just picked things that were either automatically useful (weapon upgrades for melee characters) or didn't need a roll at all (crusade relics). Originally it was intended to prevent the case where there are "haves" and "have nots" but it really exacerbated it - a critically good roll could set an army ahead of its peers by a good bit - enough to get extra Relics or extra Units from the crusade missions. Snowballing was a genuine problem.

Conversely, in the "Pick" meta, things got out of hand even more quickly but at least were evenly out of hand. It's noteworthy that there are almost 0 defensive upgrades (one Relic stands out for a 5+ FNP) but a ton of offensive upgrades (the entire Weapon tables). This means that the Pick crusade armies are all ridiculously more lethal than other armies, but not much more durable. This has a warping effect where almost every army is tabled every game at this point in the campaign, but everyone survives for the next round where damage might be EVEN HIGHER. At this point it's a meme how often an Imperial Guard company commander has "died" without dying, often to horrific things like a Keeper of Secrets with +1 damage and double exploding 6s.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





When I played a crusade league, both my Librarian and my Grandmaster Dreadknight made it to the legendary tier without suffering any losses. The GMNDK was in every game, and the Librarian popped in once the detachment changed from a Patrol to a Battalion.
A Paladin squad also got like 3 promotions, and didn't have time to reach the top of the tree because they were added to the list halfway through the league, and it was harder to structure my secondaries so that they would exclusively give XP to the paladins over the GMNDK or Librarian.

In general my secondaries were generally structured to award XP exclusively to my characters, and my other units just got by with the 1XP per battle:
Survivor - GMNDK, and once he became really high level, on the Librarian. For the Librarian, it's basically 4 free XP for showing up because they're a small character who's almost always safe, and whom nobody goes out of their way to kill just to deny me the XP.
Lord of the Warp - Essentially will always give XP to the Librarian just for being the Librarian. If you want to really drive up your psyker(s) fast, take Scry Battle Plans.
one of the No Mercy No Respite ones based on the battle - Almost always would award to the GMNDK, because the GMNDK was way more killy than everyone else.

Once the GMNDK and Librarian were maxed, it was almost a puzzle to figure out how to funnel XP to the Paladins without deliberately doing dumb things.




One thing was kind of funny. I played the same Tyranids guy like 3 times, and we went 1/1/1 W/L/D against each other, and otherwise finished with almost identical records. However, my army consistently felt vastly more powerful than his because my army of a small number of resilient units rarely suffered battle scars and never suffered them to its good units, and also had like super-characters who regenerated and ignored invulnerable saves and moved extra fast and teleported around the battlefield [well, with Gates they did that last one anyway], where as his army suffered beyond 100% casualties in most battles and he got tons of CP each game from having fewer crusade points which he used to replace Hormagaunts and Termigaunts and Genestealers right onto objective for days to win on points, but none of the replacement units could earn experience and he'd get a bunch of battle scars since he had so many units that got fragged each game.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/04 00:35:02


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in dk
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






First of all, Crusade is the best way to play in my personal oppinion.

Having played crusade 7 times now or something, i dont see anything super broken in terms of relics and choices, hence im much more for picking. Rolling is random, random is not cool (especially not from a narrative perspective), never been, only thing that should be random is battle scars. Its frustrateing having your hard earned experience and battlehonors go completely down the toilet on your favorite model/unit while the other guy is raveing and cheering for his new pimped out unit. I dont see how people can advocate for this system, especially when almost everyone hated it in 5/6/7th edition.

If your opponent is somehow making obscure combos that completely breaks the game, then kindly decline playing with him. (he is probably also picking ALL the free upgrades possible since its power level).


This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/05/04 00:33:19


6000 World Eaters/Khorne  
   
Made in ca
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge



Canada

I'm hoping to find some people to do a campaign when we're let out of our homes in my neck of the woods.

Will be my first games of 40k in years and would love to take the little force I've built up on a crusade.

Imperial Guard - 1500 GSC - 250  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

We did two crusades recently, one at each of the two local shops.

Crusade #1: Failure.
Started off ok with a good # of players. 12? 13? Maybe 14? Then at least one had to withdraw early on as they contracted Covid (they have recovered). Thanks to 2021, reduced hours, & most people having to work during the day, this shops only real day to play is Sat atm. Each week you'd be randomly paired up with an opponent.
The game sizes were supposed to increase, but I never got a clear explanation of what triggered that. It seemed like we spent forever locked into relatively small games on boards that were (in some cases) actually below minimum size for the PL. This was a great boon to several armies & a death sentence to others.
There was also no set "end" to this Crusade.
This combo of boredom with tiny games on dinky boards vs things that may as well have just deployed directly in melee, led to about 1/2 the players dropping out after roughly two months. Wich reduced to pool of opponents. Others then began making it to game day or not based on if they didn't have something better to do, or if "something came up".
And when people who'd legitimately missed a game or two did make back? They found themselves behind on RP, XP, & upgrades.
Let me tell you, a few extra CP is NOT equal to some of those upgrades & battle honors.
It wasn't long before the number of players dropped to 3 or 4 (depending upon one guys work schedule).
And it officially petered out about two weeks ago - at 65PL.

Crusade #2: Success
This one ran for a set 10 weeks: 25pl, 35pl, 45pl, 55pl, a team game where each team had two randomly drawn players each with a 55pl force (so 110pl/side), 65pl, 75pl, 85pl, 95pl*, 105(?)pl*
*"Named" characters could only be used week 5(?)+, LoW could only be used in the last two weeks.
*There was some confusion at the Patrol lv games over what sort of detachment could be chosen - some people didn't realize that per the book the Crusade starts as an actual Patrol detachment. Didn't have much of an effect, but I wish I'd been one of them & gotten to start off with a Vanguard or whatever.
*Games could be played on any size table you & your opponent agreed to.
This shop is open 7 days a week, so scheduling your weekly game was much easier.
*Each week you were randomly paired up from a pool of almost twenty players.
There wasn't much player drop off.
There were however a fair # who after some point simply stopped tracking XP, honors, scars, etc. Essentially just playing straight PL & receiving bonus CPs.
Let me reiterate, a few bonus CP is NOT = to some of those Crusade perks. Especially at higher level games.
All in all though fun was had & a wide sampling of armies saw battle.

Nominally each of these Crusades were running the Indom campaign. But in practice almost no games ever used anything from it other than the actual missions.

I highly recommend adding the following models to your collection for Crusades:
1) Spindel Drones - a 3pl unaligned TROOP choice (limit 1 unit of 4 per army :() from Blackstone Fortress
2) a pair of Bore Worms - an unaligned elite choice of 1-2 models, 1PL per model. These little things can be removed from the table & in your next mv phase be set back up deep strike style.
Both are super useful for filling out those odd pts that would otherwise be wasted in many lists.
And the worm? It's tiny - on a 20mm(?) 15mm(?) base. Sooo easy to hide it in position to count for scoring, objectives, etc. while your real units take care of buisiness.
Sadly neither can gain xp.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I think it depends what you want out of the crusade league. If people want optimal choices then let them pick. If people are playing for narrative reasons then maybe just leave it to personal choice. If you want the fates to decide then roll a die (or even two and let either the player or their opponent pick from the two options).
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




ccs 798087 11114485 wrote:

I highly recommend adding the following models to your collection for Crusades:
1) Spindel Drones - a 3pl unaligned TROOP choice (limit 1 unit of 4 per army :() from Blackstone Fortress
2) a pair of Bore Worms - an unaligned elite choice of 1-2 models, 1PL per model. These little things can be removed from the table & in your next mv phase be set back up deep strike style.
Both are super useful for filling out those odd pts that would otherwise be wasted in many lists.
And the worm? It's tiny - on a 20mm(?) 15mm(?) base. Sooo easy to hide it in position to count for scoring, objectives, etc. while your real units take care of buisiness.
Sadly neither can gain xp.


Didn't knew unaligned units could score in crusade. That is really cool and good to know.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




My favorite Crusade unit has to have been the Repentia I fielded once... and I'll never do it again

They had made it to Heroic, far faster than any other unit in their Order of Battle. Had some gruesome games, many many games overall... and had survived... 0 times. Basically any unit that had the feel of "Okay, played in 12 battles... survived 0" tickled me.

We typically played games based on the lower player's ability to field from his Order of Battle. So basically ask the person with the lower PL available what they wanted to play at... and then both players put an army together. It usually kept things civil, and allowed the person with the advantage in PL to maybe customize a little, but only based on the knowledge of what faction he was up against... or maybe more if they're paths had crossed before!

Regardless of anything else... we love Crusade, so much more than Matched Play especially. And I advocate just giving into PL. Crunching numbers to eek everything out of your list is cool and all... but not having to worry about that and just fielding the units the way you want them (for better and worse), is really liberating. Sure, you'll see units armed to the teeth with great gear... but that street goes both ways. Stop assuming your opponent is incapable of bringing swagged out units of his own

List building feels so much better when I am selecting units for their role, which is so much easier to accomplished when not having to worry about how every little upgrade affects the tuning of the list overall. Just too much headache there that saps the life out of the match.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Our campaign is moderated, and entirely narrative.

The planet is defended by Sisters and Guard, who each have full rosters available. We've created an NPC faction to represented houses of Imperial noble families.

In the shady underground, beneath the Imperial radar, two Cults are growing, capturing members a battle at time; if they get greedy and push too hard, too fast, they can be discovered and engaged by Imperial Forces.

One of the things we've had to do is use Crusade requisitions/ Battle Honours/ Scars with other systems. The first game we played was actually Space Hulk- the orignal 'Stealers that will seed the GSC had to escape from a Hulk to make planetfall.

Obviously, in Space Hulk, you don't play to agendas. So we award xp for kills. There were 8 automated escape pods; the map was designed to make it hard for more than 4 to escape and hard for fewer than four to escape. The Stealers received 1 rp if they got four away and two if they got eight away.

For small skirmish games, we use kill team rules but with the progression system from Crusade. At this stage, we're still using custom missions.

The campaign architecture borrow's from 8th edition's Urban Conquest/ Streets of Death campaign system. We've created our own territories, and there are a lot of custom missions ahead to guide the story.

There's a parallel campaign running in Commorragh as well; once the ascendant lord reclaims enough territory, they will be able to realspace raid into the sister campaign. One modification that we use to the Drukhari territory system is that some of the units have territorial reconnaissance; if these units participate in a battle and the Ascendant Lord earns a territory, they may chose any territory for which they have recon.

We keep recon rare, but it helps us advance the story if certain territories fall into the hands of particular groups at the right time.
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

I hadn't really considered the "rich get richer" effect of rolling for Battle Honors, but it makes sense and further dissuades me from it. The players who win more get more rolls, and are more likely to hit key upgrades. We went at it purely from the feels-bad angle, like hitting ObSec+Shoot w/ Action buff hitting your Hormagants; the best play is to remove and re-add the unit and keep trying for hit the right upgrade at 6exp.

Purifying Tempest wrote:
And I advocate just giving into PL. Crunching numbers to eek everything out of your list is cool and all... but not having to worry about that and just fielding the units the way you want them (for better and worse), is really liberating. Sure, you'll see units armed to the teeth with great gear... but that street goes both ways. Stop assuming your opponent is incapable of bringing swagged out units of his own

List building feels so much better when I am selecting units for their role, which is so much easier to accomplished when not having to worry about how every little upgrade affects the tuning of the list overall. Just too much headache there that saps the life out of the match.
I get the convenience of PL. I also think it's great for really casual players, like kids, who just slapped on every upgrade in the box because it looks cool. The problem is, as soon as you start building coherently, you're going to abuse the PL system even incidentally. However, not every army can abuse it at the same rate. My 495pt AdMech patrol is 26 PL, but my 25 PL patrol (with a different loadout for PL) is 549 points. There's no guarantee that armies are going to be evenly matched and, personally, that idea is going to nag at me the whole game.

To your second point, selecting a unit for their role, I actually found that to be the case with points anyway. Like I said in the OP, you already can't fiddle with individual upgrades to tune the list (without spending RP). You build a unit and upgrade it for a job, and pick it in useful match-ups. Instead of fiddling with minor upgrades, you have small filler units in your OoB. That's true in PL too, you'll keep some 1-2 PL units to meet the cap.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
In general my secondaries were generally structured to award XP exclusively to my characters, and my other units just got by with the 1XP per battle:
[...]
Once the GMNDK and Librarian were maxed, it was almost a puzzle to figure out how to funnel XP to the Paladins without deliberately doing dumb things.
[...]
However, my army consistently felt vastly more powerful than his because my army of a small number of resilient units rarely suffered battle scars and never suffered them to its good units...
That's really interesting, because my experience with AdMech was basically the opposite. I didn't have super-heroes to pile buffs on, and the secondaries didn't really lend themselves to specific units for me anyway. There really weren't great upgrade choices past the second Honor for most of my units. My entire army was at least Blooded by being Marked for Greatness, with only a couple tanks hitting Honored by kills and Priority Target (kill tanks/monsters).

I think that elite armies have an advantage in theory. They can consolidate secondary experience more easily, essentially making it worth more, and avoid Scars more easily too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/04 17:47:19


   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





 DarkHound wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
In general my secondaries were generally structured to award XP exclusively to my characters, and my other units just got by with the 1XP per battle:
[...]
Once the GMNDK and Librarian were maxed, it was almost a puzzle to figure out how to funnel XP to the Paladins without deliberately doing dumb things.
[...]
However, my army consistently felt vastly more powerful than his because my army of a small number of resilient units rarely suffered battle scars and never suffered them to its good units...
That's really interesting, because my experience with AdMech was basically the opposite. I didn't have super-heroes to pile buffs on, and the secondaries didn't really lend themselves to specific units for me anyway. There really weren't great upgrade choices past the second Honor for most of my units. My entire army was at least Blooded by being Marked for Greatness, with only a couple tanks hitting Honored by kills and Priority Target (kill tanks/monsters).

I think that elite armies have an advantage in theory. They can consolidate secondary experience more easily, essentially making it worth more, and avoid Scars more easily too.


My entire army also made it to the first level of honors, but that was basically just because we played about 12 or so games in the league and they got one point for each one they were in. After that, basically all the XP was funneled to my characters.
Psyker Characters are particularly easy to get XP to. Between Scry Battle Plans and Survivor you can easily net 10XP to the character just for being in the game before you account for a third agenda, marked for greatness, and units killed. I personally think Lord of the Warp is better than Scry Battle Plans, because even if it's not as much XP, your psyker is still participating and 7XP is still very respectable and you'll reach 51+XP very quickly anyway.


For noncharacters, Survivor or Sentinel are options to directly funnel XP to units, assuming you can keep them alive, which isn't as easy as keeping characters alive, but otherwise the getting of XP will be in some way dependent upon the unit having to outcompete the other units in your army.



As far as PL goes, there's no point to using points in Crusade. Units getting Battle Honors throws that all out of whack, so you might as well stick to the general guide of PL which will probably wind up being more accurate in the end. That said, no matter what, a Grandmaster Dreadknight with 6 Battle Honors is going to be worth a lot more than whatever cost to include him in the list indicates [but singlehandedly gives like 6 CP to the opponent].

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/04 19:12:32


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in gb
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




UK

Been playing Crusade for a few weeks now. I absolutely love it.

Try not to sweat too much about the difference between using points and power. Crusade isn’t meant to be perfectly balanced, it’s meant to be a chance to get your cool models out and make fun stories for them as they succeed or fail in their endeavours.

 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






I think it is vitally important in crusade that the participants understand that the goal is fun thematic armies and not strict optimization as one would in matched play. A competitive mindset is anathema to crusade but so long as players can put that aside it is quite fun. It also means that the experience of crusade as a system can vary dramatically simply based on how competitive the local community is.

That said, I think the compensation of a player with less crusade points getting CP equal to half the difference is insufficient. IMO it should just be straight CP equal to the difference. If an opponent's force has 3 more crusade points than yours, you should get 3 extra CP.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

My crusade experience is a little skewed. It’s the only 9th I’ve played, and just with my son (who is 15, so not too young to understand the rules, but lacks my years of wargaming)

We choose rewards and roll damage.

I agree that things are getting more and more lethal as we level up. You can give marine squads BS2 w/rr 1s with two level ups. That’s a pretty solid bump in firepower. Defensively for squads you can get a 6+++, but I don’t think that balances. Characters have a lot more options to boost survivability.

PL and abilities can help make units viable in the format. Reivers are a good example. When you get both the graples and chutes for free, and can use an upgrade to give them ObSec, suddenly they are really good backfield disruption. Or giving boosts to charge ranges can make DSing units and getting them into CC less risky. You can also see more WL traits and relics when you can hand out the ones that aren’t the “must take” ones.

We were trying to organically get our force levels up, but it seems that once we started playing larger games, all our RP went into buying off damage from units. You play with 6 or more units, odds are one is going to take a hit. I guess loosing the XP is an option, but part of the fun is leveling up, and moving backwards is never entertaining.

I’ve not seen codexes other then the SM one, but there is some seriously nice stuff in there. Felt it’s lack when trying my nids out for a little 3 game side quest. Not just the agendas (the marine one where you get XP for making morale checks is money) but the tailored upgrades and relics.

   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






The main advantage Tyranids have is no limitation on the number of units with adaptive physiology--just spend the requisition and you're good to go.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Nevelon wrote:


I’ve not seen codexes other then the SM one,


The best so far is the Drukari dex; their Crusade content basically creates a set of rules for playing a Necromunda style game in Commorragh- it is absolutely incredible.

They've hinted at a path to Living Sainthood in the Sisters Crusade content. You can be sure that it will also include rules for swearing a Penitent Oath and for fulfilling that oath. It's going to be a game changer.
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

NinthMusketeer wrote:That said, I think the compensation of a player with less crusade points getting CP equal to half the difference is insufficient. IMO it should just be straight CP equal to the difference. If an opponent's force has 3 more crusade points than yours, you should get 3 extra CP.
Nevelon wrote:We were trying to organically get our force levels up, but it seems that once we started playing larger games, all our RP went into buying off damage from units. You play with 6 or more units, odds are one is going to take a hit. I guess loosing the XP is an option, but part of the fun is leveling up, and moving backwards is never entertaining.
I think getting a whole CP per Crusade Point difference is a good idea. I was actually surprised looking at the rules again after 6 months to see it was only 1 per 2. Besides obviously combating power disparities directly, I think it'd also encourage leaving Battle Scars on units. I think accumulating minor, mildly detrimental effects is more interesting for narrative and flavour; mechanically you're incentivized to risk a debuff in exchange for a CP. Now, maybe the design team saw that and specifically wanted Battle Scars to feel like a punishment, but I think that's a missed opportunity. (Though the existence of Necron and Dark Eldar Battle Scar tables imply they like that idea.) That said, I still think the optimal strategy here is to take all the Battle Scars you can handle for extra CP anyway.

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:...After that, basically all the XP was funneled to my characters.
[...]
For noncharacters, Survivor or Sentinel are options to directly funnel XP to units, assuming you can keep them alive, which isn't as easy as keeping characters alive, but otherwise the getting of XP will be in some way dependent upon the unit having to outcompete the other units in your army.
Nevelon wrote:I’ve not seen codexes other then the SM one, but there is some seriously nice stuff in there. Felt it’s lack when trying my nids out for a little 3 game side quest. Not just the agendas (the marine one where you get XP for making morale checks is money) but the tailored upgrades and relics.
I had noticed that armies end up taking the same agendas to boost particular units, basically regardless of the mission. For instance, I don't need experience on my infantry so I'll never touch most of the action agendas. It feels like a first iteration of the design space, though I appreciate the core ones had to be generic. Still, I miss the presence of mission-specific secondaries to provide novel choices.

I think the codex books have found a good way to incentivize diversifying agendas by providing additional rewards besides exp for very specific situations. The Necrons have interesting additional mechanics, with special Epithets and Battle Scars. However, I think they really started to hit their stride with the Death Guard codex and the Virulence Mechanic. The Dark Eldar are even better, so hopefully that trend continues and the Space Marines get some supplements to keep up.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/05/05 20:21:19


   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The main advantage Tyranids have is no limitation on the number of units with adaptive physiology--just spend the requisition and you're good to go.


I would assume you still have the limit to choosing each one once in your roster, similar to WL traits.

--

Some of the damage is irrelevant, so just helps to keep the crusade points down. The comms were blown off my speeder, so he can’t benefit from auras. Big loss, as he’s not core, and generally off doing his own thing. My JP captain had his leg blown off, which would be more of a drawback if I hadn’t picked up swift and agile. So that’s basically a wash. I keep throwing him into harms way though, aiming for that second wound so I can stick him in a dread.

   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





I've run three Crusade campaigns with my local group. The first two were great and people were thoroughly engaged. The third...well, I think I tried to be too prescriptive (the setting was a space hulk, so players were encouraged to theme their armies to suit) and players lost interest when it was clear that one team couldn't possibly win and was fighting for a draw.

Tip #1a: make sure players are keeping track of their OOB. I recommend using Administratum.net and create a league for all players to join - this allows everyone to view the OOB of everyone else who has joined the league. When adding battle honours/scars and Crusade relics, I recommend summarising their effects in parentheses. e.g. Resilient (6+ FNP).

Tip #1b: Administratum has a print view output, much of which is weirdly laid out and hard to follow, but the "Battle Record Sheet" is extremely useful, especially if you follow the above suggestion of summarising the effects. I recommend getting players to print out just this one sheet (usually 1-2 pages) each time they come to the store.

Tip #2: encourage players to name their characters and squad leaders. This is not only good for the narrative, but it's a great psychological tool to help keep track of battle honours and scars - it's easier to remember that Sergeant Caius Jones can reroll morale than simply "Squad II" or whatever.

Tip #3: for battle honours/scars, I generally lean towards rolling for them unless you have a narrative reason to choose one. Did the unit level up in a game where they killed a character? Give them Headhunters or Veteran Warriors. Did the vehicle level up by stoically holding an objective? Give it Repair Systems. Did the character level up just by default but didn't kill anything? Roll the ability.

Tip #4: if you run a campaign with winners and losers, make sure there's always a way for everyone to win something. If the campaign has teams, the losing team(s) need to always have a chance to win, right up until the last battle. GW's campaign system from the Book of Rust is fine, but if one team has won the first two phases, it means the other team(s) can only draw at best, which is not a good motivator. I recommend making the final phase of the campaign worth one more point than the other phases combined. Or, as Campaign Master, provide a bonus campaign point if the losing team(s) can achieve a specific goal.

Tip #5: when choosing a battle size, I recommend picking a size that is a bit smaller than the supply limit of the player with fewer supplies. For example, if Player A has 75PL and Player B has 95PL, I recommend playing a game of 50-60PL. Try not to think of your OOB supply limit as being your "maximum battle size", because that shoehorns you into building your OOB as if it were an army for a specific game, and that can lead to boredom since you're just playing with the same army every time.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

This thread makes me sad.

All I want to do is play Crusade... but at the same time my Tyranids don't have Crusade rules.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
This thread makes me sad.

All I want to do is play Crusade... but at the same time my Tyranids don't have Crusade rules.


Yeah, I feel your pain. When you do get the rules though, they're going to be awesome. Hopefully it won't be too long.

If these shipping issues ever get worked out, and we can return to the previously planned pace, it'll come quick.
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

Nevelon wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The main advantage Tyranids have is no limitation on the number of units with adaptive physiology--just spend the requisition and you're good to go.
I would assume you still have the limit to choosing each one once in your roster, similar to WL traits.
H.B.M.C. wrote:This thread makes me sad.

All I want to do is play Crusade... but at the same time my Tyranids don't have Crusade rules.
My reading of Specialist Reinforcements is that you can use Progeny of the Hive as many time as you'd like, and I don't see any reason not to spam 5++ on your monsters. Plus you can give every character a Warlord trait, which Tyranids otherwise can't do.

There may not be Tyranid specific Crusade rules yet, but you can still have a blast creating your own monsters. Tyranids are primed to take advantage of Scry Batteplans, Lord of the Warp, Survivor, or Sentinel. Much like Lord Katherine's Grey Knights, Hive Tyrants and Broodlords are likely to run away with the game.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/05/06 01:12:38


   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I realise this is kinda going off on a tangent, but can someone explain this:

"My reading of Specialist Reinforcements is that you can use Progeny of the Hive as many time as you'd like, and I don't see any reason not to spam 5++ on your monsters."

I always use 2x Dermic Symbiosis because monsters suck in 9th and it's about the only way to make a few big gunbeasts worthwhile.

Is what is said in that quote above mean that I can take more than 2 of that upgrade in a Crusade list?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I realise this is kinda going off on a tangent, but can someone explain this:

"My reading of Specialist Reinforcements is that you can use Progeny of the Hive as many time as you'd like, and I don't see any reason not to spam 5++ on your monsters."

I always use 2x Dermic Symbiosis because monsters suck in 9th and it's about the only way to make a few big gunbeasts worthwhile.

Is what is said in that quote above mean that I can take more than 2 of that upgrade in a Crusade list?


I just looked, and it does not seem like there is a restriction. I equate them with alternate warlord traits in my mind, so thought they were 1 per, no duplicates. But a quick scan of the docs I have on hand does not support this. You can spend RP to give units pre-battle upgrades like relics and WL traits, so no reason you shouldn’t be able to spam this for the whole roster.

So morph them all up. Mutations for everyone! You are going to hemorrhage crusade points, but get the extra whistles and bells to back it up.

One problem with playing only at home with my son is I lack people to bounce rules off of for serious discussion. He has enough issues focusing on the rules for his army, much less my tertiary one. And frankly almost nobody here talks about crusade.

   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





DarkHound wrote:My reading of Specialist Reinforcements is that you can use Progeny of the Hive as many time as you'd like, and I don't see any reason not to spam 5++ on your monsters. Plus you can give every character a Warlord trait, which Tyranids otherwise can't do.

There may not be Tyranid specific Crusade rules yet, but you can still have a blast creating your own monsters. Tyranids are primed to take advantage of Scry Batteplans, Lord of the Warp, Survivor, or Sentinel. Much like Lord Katherine's Grey Knights, Hive Tyrants and Broodlords are likely to run away with the game.


Oh yeah. Tyrants and Brood Lords are of a type that's pretty easy to turn into a megamonsters with focused XP dumping. Herohammer may not be what you came to Tyranids for, though. I picked GK over my other 5 armies specifically because they were a little more small-scale and character-driven, which would work better in crusade than like IG.

Cheex wrote:I've run three Crusade campaigns with my local group. The first two were great and people were thoroughly engaged. The third...well, I think I tried to be too prescriptive (the setting was a space hulk, so players were encouraged to theme their armies to suit) and players lost interest when it was clear that one team couldn't possibly win and was fighting for a draw.

Tip #1a: make sure players are keeping track of their OOB. I recommend using Administratum.net and create a league for all players to join - this allows everyone to view the OOB of everyone else who has joined the league. When adding battle honours/scars and Crusade relics, I recommend summarising their effects in parentheses. e.g. Resilient (6+ FNP).

Tip #1b: Administratum has a print view output, much of which is weirdly laid out and hard to follow, but the "Battle Record Sheet" is extremely useful, especially if you follow the above suggestion of summarising the effects. I recommend getting players to print out just this one sheet (usually 1-2 pages) each time they come to the store.

Tip #2: encourage players to name their characters and squad leaders. This is not only good for the narrative, but it's a great psychological tool to help keep track of battle honours and scars - it's easier to remember that Sergeant Caius Jones can reroll morale than simply "Squad II" or whatever.

Tip #3: for battle honours/scars, I generally lean towards rolling for them unless you have a narrative reason to choose one. Did the unit level up in a game where they killed a character? Give them Headhunters or Veteran Warriors. Did the vehicle level up by stoically holding an objective? Give it Repair Systems. Did the character level up just by default but didn't kill anything? Roll the ability.

Tip #4: if you run a campaign with winners and losers, make sure there's always a way for everyone to win something. If the campaign has teams, the losing team(s) need to always have a chance to win, right up until the last battle. GW's campaign system from the Book of Rust is fine, but if one team has won the first two phases, it means the other team(s) can only draw at best, which is not a good motivator. I recommend making the final phase of the campaign worth one more point than the other phases combined. Or, as Campaign Master, provide a bonus campaign point if the losing team(s) can achieve a specific goal.

Tip #5: when choosing a battle size, I recommend picking a size that is a bit smaller than the supply limit of the player with fewer supplies. For example, if Player A has 75PL and Player B has 95PL, I recommend playing a game of 50-60PL. Try not to think of your OOB supply limit as being your "maximum battle size", because that shoehorns you into building your OOB as if it were an army for a specific game, and that can lead to boredom since you're just playing with the same army every time.


#1: We kept track on scans of the sheets from the back of the book. Works pretty well, actually.

#3: I highly recommend not rolling for honors. It's drastically un-fun for basically everyone involved, and there's no good reason to do so over picking. Everybody will be happier if you pick, and there's literally no downside.

#5: Is definitely a good idea. What we did was an escalation league, so we started with however many PL, and after every four games we got an additional bunch of PL as commitment to the area of operations was increased. We could still spend our RP on more PL, which I did so that I could get some units into my order of battle earlier to get them a get up in experience. [it's not like I had anything else to spend RP on anyway, I was basically always floating at 5], which brings me to my actual point on organizing such a league:

I highly recommend removing the limit on RP, and also brainstorming your own mission rewards for each round or each game as the game organizer. While the limit exists to get you to spend it, there's often nothing to spend it on, so it is just lost and people don't feel like they're getting anything after about 10 or so games. It's particularly noticeable when you play a game where literally nobody can use the mission reward, so it doesn't matter who wins or loses, and this became the norm by the end of our 12 games. We didn't really have a stake in the game anymore because we were ineligible to receive the rewards.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
#3: I highly recommend not rolling for honors. It's drastically un-fun for basically everyone involved, and there's no good reason to do so over picking. Everybody will be happier if you pick, and there's literally no downside.
Is this because rolling randomly might see a HTH squad get a shooting buff, or vice versa?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
#3: I highly recommend not rolling for honors. It's drastically un-fun for basically everyone involved, and there's no good reason to do so over picking. Everybody will be happier if you pick, and there's literally no downside.
Is this because rolling randomly might see a HTH squad get a shooting buff, or vice versa?


Yes, also, particularly in narrative play, people want to you know, have the narrative of their people, so picking is important.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

Bleh. I completely disagree with simply picking your rewards.
You want to see units quickly become monsters? Then pick your rewards. It'll become real dull and predictable as you'll just map them out ahead of time. Then all you have to look forward to is checking off the xp boxes until you unlock reward xyz. Wash, rinse, repeat. And you won't "waste" any xp either on non-prefered upgrades.
If I could've just picked the optimal reward for my Necrons it'd have been much worse for my opponents. I fed xp into about 5 units for most of the Crusade hoping to role the perfect upgrades. If I could've just skipped that I'd have had even more units optimized....
Besides, seeing how your force randomly/organically evolves is part of the fun of the system.
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

Roll for it, picking is for matched play...

If you want to pimp out your units, expose them to danger....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/06 06:39:39


 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: