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Alpharius wrote:No, I'm fairly sure he's talking about Special Characters.

Anyway... part of the problem is that many people don't like fielding SC's to unlock certain elements because you're then 'forced' into whatever advantages/disadvantages/wargear/etc. of that SC to be able to play the army you want to play.

Yeah, but at the same time it's a way to impose a bit of "balance" that might otherwise not be possible with these variant lists, don't you think? If I could take a Commander in Terminator Armor and a Captain with a Jump Pack to unlock Jump and Terminators as Troops, don't you think that might be a bit excessive?

By tying them with special characters, who have a fixed points cost and fixed equipment, you can at least control what is unlocking those things as Troops and affecting the army-wide special rules, etc.

A better example is from the SM Codex.

You want to field bikes as troops?
Just field a SM Captain on a bike! Arm him however you want, you're good to go!

I've yet to understand why the bloody SM book can do this, but not the Dark Angels. But that's neither here nor there.

If it were me writing the Codex for Grey Knights?
Taking a group of 'standard' Inquisitors as an Elite choice 'unlocks' 1-4 Inquisitorial Stormtrooper units as Troops. Standard Stormtrooper stats and armament applies, as does the points cost.
But if you take an Inquisitor Lord(including any potential Inquisitor Lord special characters) as an HQ choice, he further allows for you to upgrade those Stormtroopers to 'Veteran Inquisitorial Stormtroopers' allowing for some nastier weaponry and skills at a minor points bump.

Although, frankly, I'd do something similar for every Codex where you get benefits for taking 'themed' armies and things of that nature.

If you had to field a SC to do that, it would be much more limiting, restrictive, etc.
This is even MORE so if you have to field a SC in order to 'unlock' Stormtroopers as troops - something many of us have from the last codex.
But, as Just Dave mentioned, we don't know this sure.
Odds are it will be the case, but, who knows?

Bleh. The Daemonhunters/Witchhunters Codices were just a mess in how everything was slammed together. The only real 'restriction' we saw was that an army with Daemonhosts couldn't take Grey Knights, but could still take pretty much every other nasty bit of the army and then added in Space Marine support.

But that just goes back to the whole "where does the Inquisition really belong?" aspect that I've harped on over and over again. They're trying to strike a balance between the Inquisition and the Grey Knights and likely they'll miss that balance and overcompensate in trying to lock out the Inquisition and block some of the nastier combos that we used to see.

warboss wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

bhsman wrote:

The word 'Holocaust' isn't a German one, so it probably stayed the same? If you access the German website for the Daemonhunters .pdf you can probably check for yourself.

I think he was referring to the hypersensitivity to the subject that most Germans display. When I was in Germany, I had two different people apologize for the actions of their country in WW2. It was somewhat surreal.

i don't know if its really hypersensitivity when some of the victims as well as perpetrators are still alive regarding an event as widespread and evil as the holocaust. we're not talking about some slaughter of barbarian villagers during the pax romana; the event is still a part of the living memory of millions.

I certainly wasn't belittling the holocaust, however nor do I feel I need an apology from Germans born in the 1970s for the actions of their earlier countrymen. Anyways....back to our regularly scheduled rumors...

If it were me writing the Codex for Grey Knights?
Taking a group of 'standard' Inquisitors as an Elite choice 'unlocks' 1-4 Inquisitorial Stormtrooper units as Troops. Standard Stormtrooper stats and armament applies, as does the points cost.
But if you take an Inquisitor Lord(including any potential Inquisitor Lord special characters) as an HQ choice, he further allows for you to upgrade those Stormtroopers to 'Veteran Inquisitorial Stormtroopers' allowing for some nastier weaponry and skills at a minor points bump.

This seems the fairest to me; as long as the SC isn't too costly.

Just Dave wrote:Personally, for me I don't mind Storm Troopers for example requiring an Inquisitor Lord to have as troops.
However, I WOULD NOT like a special character to force me into such a case. Special Characters in these cases can almost force the player to field them and therefore limit the personal aspect of their army as it were...

I've not explained it very well I admit, but I think the Space Marine Biker Captain is a much better mechanic than having to take, for example, Sammael.

I think requiring a Special Character is fine for some of the more 'off the wall' builds, such as all Wolf Guard, or scoring Stern-guard.
But for something as fundamental as Storm Troopers, I'd say it's a bit much.

Obviously that's just my personal opinion and speculation too.

One of the problems I've noticed has been that GW has been creating codexes for very specific chapters and armies, for example the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and recently the Grey Knights. It doesn't allow the openness and creativity of a generalized codex like Codex: (C)SM, or Codex: Dark Eldar, it wants you to be a part of something that's already there, rather than create your own.

I do think that IF it did require a Special Character to make Stormies troops, that wouldn't make much sense or actually fit that well with GW's apparent design ethos.

I mean, Special Characters typically (except for the DA, but admittedly, they're an old Codex) allow certain units to be taken as troops to allow more 'off the wall' or unique armies; no special character that I can recall (baring DA, again) has restricted such a fundemental part of the army.
For example, Dante allows Sanguinary Guard to be taken as troops, then there's Logan/Wolf Guard, Canis/Fenrisian Wolves, Baron/Helions, Pedro/Sternguard... All these aren't conventional builds and as such it's KIND OF fitting that it requires a special character.

However, Storm Troopers were such an extensive and core part of many peoples Daemon Hunter armies, that it wouldn't make sense for it to require a special character. Requiring an Inquisitor/Inquisitor Lord I could understand and agree with, but I don't think a Special Character is fair or fitting with their current methodology.

Of course, we don't know anything for sure yet...

Maybe the SC will unlock new Inquisitorial elite forces? I mean, they must have more than Stormtroopers, Rhinos and Chimeras.

What would people think on an SC that unlocks an Inquisitorial Leman Russ and one that unlocks an Inquisitorial Predator? or possibly a completely new tank? It could be possible since it was rumoured that there was alot of SC characters in this right? I'd like to see something like this. They can keep Storms an open force. I cant see reason in restricting them. They're hardly broken.

I would assume that what we'll be seeing in terms of vehicles, we've seen in IA7.

Razorbacks, with the option to take Psycannons.
Rhinos, Chimeras, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and we'll probably see the Valkyrie/Vendetta and the Stormraven. Of course.

I see little premise for the introduction of psycannon razorbacks or the GKLR:R into regular rules.

However I am looking forward to having the option for all forms of the LR, though now that I think about it, the main reason I ever did take LR was for the Crusader simply so I could assault into cover (which will of course be sovled by all PAGK gaining frag grenades and possibly Termies...but I am somewhat skeptical of the idea still).

It would be nice to have psycannon razorbacks, but I simply don't see GW going out of their way to produce a psycannon/incinerator upgrade sprue for the Razorback/Land Raider, given that a GK Redeemer is capable of ripping marines apart on a 2+ as well as anything with a 3+ save or worse.

One thing that would point me to Psycannons/Flamestorm Incinerators for GK vehicles would have been Psycannons in the Storm Raven kit, but alas...

Ehsteve wrote:I see little premise for the introduction of psycannon razorbacks or the GKLR:R into regular rules.

However I am looking forward to having the option for all forms of the LR, though now that I think about it, the main reason I ever did take LR was for the Crusader simply so I could assault into cover (which will of course be sovled by all PAGK gaining frag grenades and possibly Termies...but I am somewhat skeptical of the idea still).

It would be nice to have psycannon razorbacks, but I simply don't see GW going out of their way to produce a psycannon/incinerator upgrade sprue for the Razorback/Land Raider, given that a GK Redeemer is capable of ripping marines apart on a 2+ as well as anything with a 3+ save or worse.

One thing that would point me to Psycannons/Flamestorm Incinerators for GK vehicles would have been Psycannons in the Storm Raven kit, but alas...

I hate to break it to you, but just because there's no Psycannon or Incinerator in the Stormraven kit doesn't mean there won't be Psycannon Razorbacks in the book.

If that were true, then there's no such thing as being able to make a Dreadnought with Dark Angels insignia as a full plastic kit.

Begs to differ that point.

There's precedent for them doing these kinds of things where the parts aren't included directly in the kit, but are assumed to be able to be kitbashed using spare parts already in your collection.

There's nothing to suggest that the GKs will suddenly be given access to Rhinos and Rhino-based vehicles beyond my own cynicism that they will get them because it means GK players will have more to buy. I also point out (again) that although GK’s do not have Rhinos/etc. in the fluff right now, that can (and will) change it means being able to sell more kits.

As for unlocking...

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, but at the same time it's a way to impose a bit of "balance" that might otherwise not be possible with these variant lists, don't you think? If I could take a Commander in Terminator Armor and a Captain with a Jump Pack to unlock Jump and Terminators as Troops, don't you think that might be a bit excessive?

Why? It would allow people to play their armies without patching ‘counts as’ over everything. Why must Terminator formations be limited to Dark Angels and the Space Wolves and only then when a specific guy shows up with them. The Ultramarines (and I’m certain they aren’t alone here) have fielded all Terminator formations. The Blood Angels have. Why shouldn’t a Librarian or Chaplain be able to lead a Deathwing force? Why must Belial always be there?

Kanluwen wrote:By tying them with special characters, who have a fixed points cost and fixed equipment, you can at least control what is unlocking those things as Troops and affecting the army-wide special rules, etc.

An imagined problem (one might even go so far as to call that a ‘false dilemma’ Kan). Did Dark Angel players find there was a problem with their Ravenwing and Deathwing forces before the introduction of Belial and Sammael? Would Wolf Guard as Troops be such a big deal without Logan? No I like some special chars opening different options as they represent the types of army that type of character fields (Calgar brings lots of Honour Guard – that’s fine, ditto for Logan that matter). But when generic army types (like ISTs) suddenly enter the realm of ‘Special Character Needed’ rather than just ‘Take an Inquisitor as your HQ’, then that’s a problem.

I don’t want to have to take Coteaz (or whoever it might be) to take an IST army. I don’t like Coteaz, and I don’t want to do a ‘Counts As’. My Inquisitorial leaders range from sword-wielding firebrands at the forefront of combat to snivelling aristocrats who like to hide inside ranks of bodyguards. Torqmeda is neither of these two things.

Just Dave wrote:I do think that IF it did require a Special Character to make Stormies troops, that wouldn't make much sense or actually fit that well with GW's apparent design ethos.

Well, you’re half right. It wouldn’t make sense – no other Inquisitor fields Storm Troopers in any sort of significant number? – but it would fit with GW’s current design ethos.

Just Dave wrote:However, Storm Troopers were such an extensive and core part of many peoples Daemon Hunter armies, that it wouldn't make sense for it to require a special character. Requiring an Inquisitor/Inquisitor Lord I could understand and agree with, but I don't think a Special Character is fair or fitting with their current methodology.

I could live with it requiring an Inquisitor (generic and special) as well, but not only a special.

Just Dave wrote:Of course, we don't know anything for sure yet...

Yup (although I do allow a 0.01% possibility of me being wrong).

H.B.M.C. wrote:There's nothing to suggest that the GKs will suddenly be given access to Rhinos and Rhino-based vehicles beyond my own cynicism that they will get them because it means GK players will have more to buy. I also point out (again) that although GK’s do not have Rhinos/etc. in the fluff right now, that can (and will) change it means being able to sell more kits.

Where did I say, anywhere at all, that "the GKs will suddenly be given access to Rhinos and Rhino-based vehicles"?
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers fielded the Rhinos and Razorbacks that were used on Vraks. The Grey Knights at most had a few Land Raiders and some Thunderhawks.

As for unlocking...

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, but at the same time it's a way to impose a bit of "balance" that might otherwise not be possible with these variant lists, don't you think? If I could take a Commander in Terminator Armor and a Captain with a Jump Pack to unlock Jump and Terminators as Troops, don't you think that might be a bit excessive?

Why? It would allow people to play their armies without patching ‘counts as’ over everything. Why must Terminator formations be limited to Dark Angels and the Space Wolves and only then when a specific guy shows up with them. The Ultramarines (and I’m certain they aren’t alone here) have fielded all Terminator formations. The Blood Angels have. Why shouldn’t a Librarian or Chaplain be able to lead a Deathwing force? Why must Belial always be there?

What's the big deal about "counts as" when you've got characters like Belial with multiple weapon options? He's as bland and generic as special characters come, quite frankly. Plus Librarians and Chaplains don't really "lead" anything in the Dark Angels. They're secondary characters, advisors almost exclusively except in extraordinary circumstances.

As for the rest: It's probably because they're trying to distinguish specific themes, rather than just "If Dave wears Terminator Armor, he can bring all his Terminator buddies to brunch!".

And for the record? The Ultramarines have fielded all Terminator formations once or twice at best. The battle for the planetary shield generators in the northern polar regions on Macragge is the only one that immediately springs to mind. The Blood Angels have seemingly only fielded all Terminator forces when they're clearing Space Hulks, not really when fighting on the ground. It's that daggone "exceptional circumstances" idea cropping up again.

Kanluwen wrote:By tying them with special characters, who have a fixed points cost and fixed equipment, you can at least control what is unlocking those things as Troops and affecting the army-wide special rules, etc.

An imagined problem (one might even go so far as to call that a ‘false dilemma’ Kan). Did Dark Angel players find there was a problem with their Ravenwing and Deathwing forces before the introduction of Belial and Sammael? Would Wolf Guard as Troops be such a big deal without Logan? No I like some special chars opening different options as they represent the types of army that type of character fields (Calgar brings lots of Honour Guard – that’s fine, ditto for Logan that matter). But when generic army types (like ISTs) suddenly enter the realm of ‘Special Character Needed’ rather than just ‘Take an Inquisitor as your HQ’, then that’s a problem.

We're agreed on that matter then. Except I, personally, feel that it shouldn't just be "take an Inquisitor as your HQ". Having any Inquisitor, even a relatively "minor" Inquisitor(like the rumoured "Inquisitor" unit that was supposed to be an elite choice ala Tech-Priests that didn't really take up a slot, but still cost points, etc) should allow for fielding Stormtrooper units equal to the number of Inquisitors fielded.

Having an Inquisitor Lord present should net your Inquisitorial Stormtroopers huge bonuses, simply by dint of them being representative of the better quality available to an Inquisitorial Lord's status.

I don’t want to have to take Coteaz (or whoever it might be) to take an IST army. I don’t like Coteaz, and I don’t want to do a ‘Counts As’. My Inquisitorial leaders range from sword-wielding firebrands at the forefront of combat to snivelling aristocrats who like to hide inside ranks of bodyguards. Torqmeda is neither of these two things.

Please calm down the doomsaying.
We don't know that you have to take Coteaz or some named Inquisitor Lord to take an IST army. In fact, we've basically got no information on the Inquisition side of the Grey Knights book.

Outside of "Oh, they're there."

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I do think that IF it did require a Special Character to make Stormies troops, that wouldn't make much sense or actually fit that well with GW's apparent design ethos.

Well, you’re half right. It wouldn’t make sense – no other Inquisitor fields Storm Troopers in any sort of significant number? – but it would fit with GW’s current design ethos.

Just Dave wrote:However, Storm Troopers were such an extensive and core part of many peoples Daemon Hunter armies, that it wouldn't make sense for it to require a special character. Requiring an Inquisitor/Inquisitor Lord I could understand and agree with, but I don't think a Special Character is fair or fitting with their current methodology.

I could live with it requiring an Inquisitor (generic and special) as well, but not only a special.

I would be really surprised if the only way Inquisitorial Stormtroopers as Troop choices happens is from a special character.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Of course, we don't know anything for sure yet...

Yup (although I do allow a 0.01% possibility of me being wrong).

I'll give you the same margin I give notable rumour posters.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

warboss wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:

bhsman wrote:


And one that neo-nazi groups around the world look to for inspiration and would do again if they could.

It's far from dead history.

If there were skinhead gangs modeling themselves on Roman Legions and looking to put the Hun to a sword we might look at Roman history differently too.

I think you'll note that no one implied it was. However, it's unjust to recriminate someone born after the fact for something the people from their country did before they were alive.

On topic:
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers should quite naturally require an...inquisitor. This is a no-brainer.

Just Dave wrote:I do think that IF it did require a Special Character to make Stormies troops, that wouldn't make much sense or actually fit that well with GW's apparent design ethos.

I mean, Special Characters typically (except for the DA, but admittedly, they're an old Codex) allow certain units to be taken as troops to allow more 'off the wall' or unique armies; no special character that I can recall (baring DA, again) has restricted such a fundemental part of the army.
For example, Dante allows Sanguinary Guard to be taken as troops, then there's Logan/Wolf Guard, Canis/Fenrisian Wolves, Baron/Helions, Pedro/Sternguard... All these aren't conventional builds and as such it's KIND OF fitting that it requires a special character.

However, Storm Troopers were such an extensive and core part of many peoples Daemon Hunter armies, that it wouldn't make sense for it to require a special character. Requiring an Inquisitor/Inquisitor Lord I could understand and agree with, but I don't think a Special Character is fair or fitting with their current methodology.

Of course, we don't know anything for sure yet...

Yes, but there is a fundamental Duality to the Daemonhunters codex as it stands. The first is the Grey Knights, an independent fighting force of Space Marines loyal to the Inquisition, and secondly, the Inquisition itself, which relies on guile and resourcefulness to prevent the destruction of planets, then requisitions ANY Imperial Force to fight for them. I'm completely playing Devil's Advocate here, but it would not surprise me if an IC, not necessarily an SC (which it probably will) unlocks a certain set of units or something in that gauge.

crazypsyko666 wrote:One of the problems I've noticed has been that GW has been creating codexes for very specific chapters and armies, for example the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and recently the Grey Knights. It doesn't allow the openness and creativity of a generalized codex like Codex: (C)SM, or Codex: Dark Eldar, it wants you to be a part of something that's already there, rather than create your own.

These codexes they've been creating have been in circulation since the mid 90's with Codex: Angels of Death and Codex: Space Wolves. These are absolutely nothing new.

"If Dave wears Terminator Armor, he can bring all his Terminator buddies to brunch!" -Hilarious.

But really, there is all this talk on IST's and Inquisitors, out of curiosity is their any word at all on Daemon-hosts? I'd imagine them and radicals thrown out for a Grey Knight codex.

Personally, my only and favorite army won't be needing the crutch of the Inquisition to purge Daemonic filth But more options are always nice.

Heh. We'll be lucky if Daemonhosts even exist in the new Codex. Or maybe they'll do a 'Chaos' on us and split Daemonhosts into a new Codex. Codex: Daemonhosts. It'll just be various flavours of Daemonhost.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Heh. We'll be lucky if Daemonhosts even exist in the new Codex. Or maybe they'll do a 'Chaos' on us and split Daemonhosts into a new Codex. Codex: Daemonhosts. It'll just be various flavours of Daemonhost.

You seem to have had a very tough childhood HBMC


Ok new topic, we are all sick of the SC arguement. Doesnt anyone find it more than a tad unrealistic to expect all NFW to be FW? Like seriously, its useless against daemons anyway, unless it purposely ignores daemon EW (hence "nemesis"). Other than that, its useless a lot of the time anyway, I mean how many multiwounded squads are their? Less than 1 per codex is how many. And it would be SO overpowered against tyranids, I mean 5 GK could EASILY kill a trygon if all 5 of them had FW, it makes 0 sense and I dont buy it for a second. It will be something different.


Mark my words.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To add to that, here are the possibilitys:


Furious Charge (very unlikely, to much like BA)
2+ str ( Why would they take that out? I know its rumoured to be gone, but seriously?)
1 or 2+ INI (I see this happening with halberds at least)
Rending (that wouldnt be so bad, still useless against daemons)
Power weapon (how is that balanced at all...still useless against daemons)

One of the early-early-early rumors was that NFW were just power weapons that wounded models with the Psyker and Daemon rule on a 2+, which became Force Weapons in the hands of GK Terminators.

I think the only person to shoot that down was Stickmonkey, and, well...

H.B.M.C. wrote:There's nothing to suggest that the GKs will suddenly be given access to Rhinos and Rhino-based vehicles beyond my own cynicism that they will get them because it means GK players will have more to buy. I also point out (again) that although GK’s do not have Rhinos/etc. in the fluff right now, that can (and will) change it means being able to sell more kits.

As for unlocking...

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, but at the same time it's a way to impose a bit of "balance" that might otherwise not be possible with these variant lists, don't you think? If I could take a Commander in Terminator Armor and a Captain with a Jump Pack to unlock Jump and Terminators as Troops, don't you think that might be a bit excessive?

Why? It would allow people to play their armies without patching ‘counts as’ over everything. Why must Terminator formations be limited to Dark Angels and the Space Wolves and only then when a specific guy shows up with them. The Ultramarines (and I’m certain they aren’t alone here) have fielded all Terminator formations. The Blood Angels have. Why shouldn’t a Librarian or Chaplain be able to lead a Deathwing force? Why must Belial always be there?

Kanluwen wrote:By tying them with special characters, who have a fixed points cost and fixed equipment, you can at least control what is unlocking those things as Troops and affecting the army-wide special rules, etc.

An imagined problem (one might even go so far as to call that a ‘false dilemma’ Kan). Did Dark Angel players find there was a problem with their Ravenwing and Deathwing forces before the introduction of Belial and Sammael? Would Wolf Guard as Troops be such a big deal without Logan? No I like some special chars opening different options as they represent the types of army that type of character fields (Calgar brings lots of Honour Guard – that’s fine, ditto for Logan that matter). But when generic army types (like ISTs) suddenly enter the realm of ‘Special Character Needed’ rather than just ‘Take an Inquisitor as your HQ’, then that’s a problem.

I don’t want to have to take Coteaz (or whoever it might be) to take an IST army. I don’t like Coteaz, and I don’t want to do a ‘Counts As’. My Inquisitorial leaders range from sword-wielding firebrands at the forefront of combat to snivelling aristocrats who like to hide inside ranks of bodyguards. Torqmeda is neither of these two things.

Just Dave wrote:I do think that IF it did require a Special Character to make Stormies troops, that wouldn't make much sense or actually fit that well with GW's apparent design ethos.

Well, you’re half right. It wouldn’t make sense – no other Inquisitor fields Storm Troopers in any sort of significant number? – but it would fit with GW’s current design ethos.

Just Dave wrote:However, Storm Troopers were such an extensive and core part of many peoples Daemon Hunter armies, that it wouldn't make sense for it to require a special character. Requiring an Inquisitor/Inquisitor Lord I could understand and agree with, but I don't think a Special Character is fair or fitting with their current methodology.

I could live with it requiring an Inquisitor (generic and special) as well, but not only a special.

Just Dave wrote:Of course, we don't know anything for sure yet...

Yup (although I do allow a 0.01% possibility of me being wrong).

Wow the first time I really agree with you. But yeah I would dig it if Inquistors made ST troop just like the heamonoculus does with wracks.
On the Rhino thing didnt the old codex had Rhino's in them?

greets Fatty

PS yes I know where my shift button is but I choose not to use it just like I choos not too include SC in my forces but specialy for you I did it this one time

Brother SRM wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:One of the problems I've noticed has been that GW has been creating codexes for very specific chapters and armies, for example the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and recently the Grey Knights. It doesn't allow the openness and creativity of a generalized codex like Codex: (C)SM, or Codex: Dark Eldar, it wants you to be a part of something that's already there, rather than create your own.

These codexes they've been creating have been in circulation since the mid 90's with Codex: Angels of Death and Codex: Space Wolves. These are absolutely nothing new.

Well, you see, I'm still considerably new, given the vast ranks of veterans on this site.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jaon wrote:Ok new topic, we are all sick of the SC arguement. Doesnt anyone find it more than a tad unrealistic to expect all NFW to be FW? Like seriously, its useless against daemons anyway, unless it purposely ignores daemon EW (hence "nemesis"). Other than that, its useless a lot of the time anyway, I mean how many multiwounded squads are their? Less than 1 per codex is how many. And it would be SO overpowered against tyranids, I mean 5 GK could EASILY kill a trygon if all 5 of them had FW, it makes 0 sense and I dont buy it for a second. It will be something different.


Mark my words.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To add to that, here are the possibilitys:


Furious Charge (very unlikely, to much like BA)
2+ str ( Why would they take that out? I know its rumoured to be gone, but seriously?)
1 or 2+ INI (I see this happening with halberds at least)
Rending (that wouldnt be so bad, still useless against daemons)
Power weapon (how is that balanced at all...still useless against daemons)

Well, there was a rumor that all GK squads would have psychic powers that enhanced them in some passive way, or something along those lines. It's still possible that Force Weapons for troops would be a (expensive) psychic power. The power weapons thing doesn't surprise me, though. Bloodletters have proven that an army can let entire squads take PW in the Troop section, albeit fragile ones. All I'm saying is it's within the realm of possibility. I sincerely doubt that it would be standard, but it's definitely possible.

fatty wrote:
Wow the first time I really agree with you. But yeah I would dig it if Inquistors made ST troop just like the heamonoculus does with wracks.
On the Rhino thing didnt the old codex had Rhino's in them?

The old codex did indeed have Rhinos in them, just NOT for use as dedicated transports for Grey Knights.

H.B.M.C. is saying, I think, that we shouldn't be surprised IF they are given that option now, as it would sell more models, especially in the mechanized world we currently live in...

Jaon wrote:Furious Charge (very unlikely, to much like BA)
2+ str ( Why would they take that out? I know its rumoured to be gone, but seriously?)
1 or 2+ INI (I see this happening with halberds at least)
Rending (that wouldnt be so bad, still useless against daemons)
Power weapon (how is that balanced at all...still useless against daemons)

Like I said earlier, its highly unlikely all these upgrades can be taken as a whole (the ones with everything are likely the 90pt each super terminators) but are probably judicar only, or as an expensive squad upgrade.
I really dont think the 25pt grey knights were that far off with stormbolters and 6str WS5 swords, its just that the judicars and upgradeds were way too much and it snowballed on them.

Alpharius wrote:

The old codex did indeed have Rhinos in them, just NOT for use as dedicated transports for Grey Knights.

H.B.M.C. is saying, I think, that we shouldn't be surprised IF they are given that option now, as it would sell more models, especially in the mechanized world we currently live in...

Yep. I can see these guys trotting out in Rhinos and Razorbacks, to go with their Landraiders and Storm Ravens. Are people having problems with that? An astartes-sized squad will need a larger metal box to ride in than a squad of IG, right?

we shouldn't be surprised IF they are given that (rhino) option now

Speaking of transports, Grey Knights in Rhinos and Drop Pods might be something we see in April. Glad I have a few of both kits waiting for the next project where they are needed.

fatty wrote: I choose not to use it just like I choose not too include SC in my forces

Then, alas, I would you suggest you won't be fielding (m)any Inquisitorial storm trooper units with the new codex.

Special characters can fetch +25-50% or more of the price of other current single models; therefore, there will be special characters required to do things that most people will want to do.

BrassScorpion wrote:

we shouldn't be surprised IF they are given that (rhino) option now

Speaking of transports, Grey Knights in Rhinos and Drop Pods might be something we see in April. Glad I have a few of both kits waiting for the next project where they are needed.

As long as it's not Rhinos and Drop Pods at the same time this doesn't bother me, personally. Teleporting is 'iconic' but I don't think, considering how unreliable it seems to be in the 40k setting, that Grey Knights would completely abandon the Rhino, which is a pretty non-descript vehicle option. It's a comparatively cheap and easy vehicle to acquire in setting, The Chimera is probably more common, but the Rhino is built to support Space Marines.

The Rhino is a lot more convenient when it comes to going down to the store, or even going to/from the front and rear of battlefield lines.

reds8n wrote:

fatty wrote: I choose not to use it just like I choose not too include SC in my forces

Then, alas, I would you suggest you won't be fielding (m)any Inquisitorial storm trooper units with the new codex.

Yay, ISTs as Troops.

EDIT: As in, it'll be the only one or will it be like Ko'Sarro Khan in which he can make Bikers Troops, but so can a regular Bike Captain?

luckly i play walker ork so no need for a sc.. but i do want too field the mad dok for the cybork gretchin... but back on topic.
ok i get it now on the Rhino thing.
and about the transport whice loyal power armour wearing codex doesnt include a drop pod for everyone? maybe they will get crazy and make a drop pod for landraiders its gw you never know

bhsman wrote:Yay, ISTs as Troops.

EDIT: As in, it'll be the only one or will it be like Ko'Sarro Khan in which he can make Bikers Troops, but so can a regular Bike Captain?

With a named character.