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Fxeni wrote:If' we're going off of pure RAW, the Dakkajet hits flyers on BS3. Because the entry states "When shooting at etc etc etc and vehicles without the skimmer type, the Dakkajet has +1 BS.

That includes flyers.

Dakkajet Fighta Ace just adds +1 BS to skimmers and such. I am inclined to think that they MEANT for that to apply to flyers, but atm it is the exact opposite.

In other words, the Dakkajet hits flyers at BS3 regardless of whether or not it has a Fighta Ace upgrade.

The FAQ got rid of most of the Dakkajets rules and replaced them with Strafing Run, I'm unsure of the exact ruling, but I don't think it includes Fliers (though I could be wrong). Fighta Ace only specifies skimmers and jetbikes (?).
If Strafing Run allows +1 vs Fliers, then Fighta Ace is largely redundant.

Dr. What wrote:But by using burnaz as flamers, wouldn't they lose power weapon status?

Yes, though it's not like anyone used them as such; the volume of fire from a burna unit caused so many wounds that it was invariably a better option than charging with power weapons.

Stoffer wrote:http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/07/40k-san-diego-game-empire-gt-review.html

First GT result I've seen after 6. I'm fairly convinced Orks are the strongest army right now, with the possible exception of Necrons. My biggest surprised in the results is that there is only one necron player?

I'm pretty impressed with the number of ork players there, even more surprised that most of them used battle wagon lists. I'm curious to know if they ran mek boyz and lootas to keep them running.

Agreed. I'd love to see those Ork lists that placed.

The one thing that gets way too little attention imo is the fearless wounds. If anything, that feels like the biggest change to horde armies. I played three competitive games against Orks the past year and I didn't lose any of them. That's PURELY because the sum of fearless wounds throughout an entire game put me over the hump. I'm fairly certain I'll get destroyed by Orks in this codex, mainly due to that (there are other things too, but fearless wounds really is a gigantic game changer).

After watching the video that was posted all I could see was that both ork players he faced ran 3 Battle Wagons with Deff Rollas.

Turns out that tourney was in 5th. I wouldn't consider it reliable results for us to consider.

I have 2 things to say in this post:

1) Were Big Choppas turned to Power Axes? (I don't have my rulebook yet, it's coming next week, but there was nothing on it in the FAQ.)

2) I feel Trukk Boyz are still viable. Here's how:

2A) Take a mob of 12 Slugga Boyz.:

2B) Give them a Trukk with a Reinforced Ram (maybe a Grabbin' Klaw, now that they're awesome anti-flyer)

2C) Upgrade 1 Ork Boy in that squad of 12 to a Nob.

2D) Give that Nob 'Eavy Armor and (possibly, this depends on the answer to my first question) a Big Choppa.

2E) Run said boyz straight up the board. You will not fear difficult terrain (Reinforced Ram), but you must utilize the terrain very carefully, as this is now a glass kannon list.

2F) Disembark on turn 2, as you will probably be in the face of the enemy. Make sure the Nob is in front.

2G) Charge with said Nob in the Front.

2H) All overwatch shots will go to the Nob first. Use his 'Eavy Armor and Look Out Sir! to soak up those few 6's you'll actually see that do damage (Overwatch isn't really OP!).

2I) Have the Nob challenge the opposing squad leader (if there is one). This is very important (especially if Question 1 is answered with a reply that Big Choppas aren't I1) because:
1) It will (whether the challenge is accepted or not) take out a powerful asset (in most cases) from the enemy squad.
2) If the enemy has a powerfist, a Nob with a Big Choppa can statistically kill it and set back the enemy 50 points.

2J) Destroy the rest of the enemy squad (or just tie them up for another turn.)

2K) Copy steps 2A - 2J as many times as possible (at least 4) and run each copy at the same time as the original (It's best to choose different squads for each trukk mob though.)

Notes:

A Big Choppa is much cheaper than a Power Klaw. On the charge, a PK is S9, while a Big Choppa is S7. The loss of ability to deal with AV14 is picked up by Rokkit Koptas and Kannon (not Kilkannon) Battlewagons.

Lootas can be brought in Battlewagons to help increase target saturation and bring more firepower to soften up the enemy.

Each trukk is 3 hull points. It's impossible to sink enough shots to kill 1/2 of the trukks (in 98% of all cases) in 1 turn of shooting. Plus, in my experiences with trukks at least, Ramshackle can actually help you get closer to the enemy (I had one Kareen into the face of a Tau gunline, then the boyz hopped out and krumped da fish'eads.).

Don't forget to tank shock! Once the boyz are out, proceed to harass any enemy unit/vehicle. Tank Shocks can potentially wipe even GK Paladins off the board (Nothing makes you laugh more than a 50 point ramshackle mess destroy a 200 blob of silver elitists).

For an HQ, any of the 3 generic options work. A weirdboy (with warphead upgrade) could help especially if you're running dakkajets (Still risky though). A KFF Mek might not be the best for his cost, seeing as trukks tend not to be stuck together. Warbosses are still plenty deadly (I recommend not adding an 11th boy/nob to the squad he'll join, so that you can save points, PLUS, his Look Out Sir! is a 2+).

If you read through all of that, you're probably not an Ork.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doh! I forgot stormboyz. They're an option too!

Sadly, Big Choppas got absolutely no attention, so as far as we know, they are still just plain ol' big choppas.

Thanks for starting and maintaining the info found in this thread Matphat! Very helpful stuff.

matphat wrote:Sadly, Big Choppas got absolutely no attention, so as far as we know, they are still just plain ol' big choppas.

That's for the better! (And since Codex trumps Rulebook, we can't get TFG'd to I1).

Additional Tactic (I'm crediting it as it should be to Fester from 3++ Is the New Black):

Battlewagon + Deffrolla + Boarding Plank (or Trukk if you're cheap) + 5 Tankbustas (or more if you're rich) + at least 1 Tankhammer = Death to Land Raiders and anything else that rolls/floats and can be assaulted.

Battlewagon + Deffrolla + Boarding Plank (or Trukk if you're cheap) + 5 Tankbustas (or more if you're rich) + at least 1 Tankhammer = Death to Land Raiders and anything else that rolls/floats and can be assaulted.

The problem I see with this is your BW will never survive long enough to take out two vehicles and more than likely not long enough to kill one. This is because your AV12 will be exposed to the enemy after about turn 2. Vehicles in 6E are like tissue paper....all it takes is a strong breeze to tear them up.

UrgThraka wrote:

Battlewagon + Deffrolla + Boarding Plank (or Trukk if you're cheap) + 5 Tankbustas (or more if you're rich) + at least 1 Tankhammer = Death to Land Raiders and anything else that rolls/floats and can be assaulted.

The problem I see with this is your BW will never survive long enough to take out two vehicles and more than likely not long enough to kill one. This is because your AV12 will be exposed to the enemy after about turn 2. Vehicles in 6E are like tissue paper....all it takes is a strong breeze to tear them up.

This is the first time I've used an analogy on Dakka:

Think of an Ork army as a cupcake. Sweet to have and can kill. How the killing is done is debatable.

My recipe for mechanized death is the actual cake part. Most people focus and spend most time eating this and then have to try to clean up the crumbs.

A Kustom Force Field is like Frosting. It's not always needed but can help to the overall effectiveness in appeal/design/purpose.

BustaWagons are like Sprinkles. They aren't commonly liked, but have a niche.

In other words:

If you don't focus on the trukks, you'll die. Vehicles may be thinner, but a transport's job is to transport.

So the Imperial Armour FAQ's say Codex: Orks and the Dread Mob army lists count as Battle Brothers. Does anybody see any interesting combos there?

Dr. What wrote:I have 2 things to say in this post:

1) Were Big Choppas turned to Power Axes? (I don't have my rulebook yet, it's coming next week, but there was nothing on it in the FAQ.)

big choppas were never power weapons only added +2 str.

Zog Off wrote:So the Imperial Armour FAQ's say Codex: Orks and the Dread Mob army lists count as Battle Brothers. Does anybody see any interesting combos there?

Well problem with Dread Mob is that you have to take spanner boyz, who are a tad worse than normal boyz. Still you can fit in some more dread goodness

Think of an Ork army as a cupcake.

Ok, believe it or not that makes sense to me.

More analogies GO!...
Instead of sprinkles, think of the BW as a cherry on top (because it's a fair number of your points when properly loaded up) and your opponent is the hungry kid left with the cupcake. The cherry is the first thing to go and it goes fast. The frosting may slow the kid down because the cherry is stuck in it but it won't delay him much. 6e also gave the kid a fork and a sign saying "Eat the cherry first, it's creme-filled and easier than ever to eat".

So, has anyone thought about using a combination of trucks and battlewagons, at least in smaller point games? I know this is far from an optimal setup, but this is something I was thinking of running for the next week or so to get a feel for the new edition. I don't exactly have a ton of ork stuff, in case you couldn't figure that out from the weird hodgepodge of units

UrgThraka wrote:

Think of an Ork army as a cupcake.

Ok, believe it or not that makes sense to me.

Does that mean I'm actually sane...or crazy?

UrgThraka wrote:
More analogies GO!...
Instead of sprinkles, think of the BW as a cherry on top (because it's a fair number of your points when properly loaded up) and your opponent is the hungry kid left with the cupcake. The cherry is the first thing to go and it goes fast. The frosting may slow the kid down because the cherry is stuck in it but it won't delay him much. 6e also gave the kid a fork and a sign saying "Eat the cherry first, it's creme-filled and easier than ever to eat".

Sprinkles are often hard and to be a pain to get rid of in your mouth.

And in order to eat the cherry/sprinkles first, the cupcake has to get close to the kid's mouth, where it is too close for the kid to react in some form of defensive manner against the cupcake which is now bashing the kid's face in with a cupcake-of-death equivalent to a big choppa and making the kid fail his leadership test.

Sencho wrote:Thanks for starting and maintaining the info found in this thread Matphat! Very helpful stuff.

My pleasure.
Dakka has given me to much help with this game, that I feel like being able to give back a little is the least I can do.

Dr. What wrote:

UrgThraka wrote:

Think of an Ork army as a cupcake.

Ok, believe it or not that makes sense to me.

Does that mean I'm actually sane...or crazy?

UrgThraka wrote:
More analogies GO!...
Instead of sprinkles, think of the BW as a cherry on top (because it's a fair number of your points when properly loaded up) and your opponent is the hungry kid left with the cupcake. The cherry is the first thing to go and it goes fast. The frosting may slow the kid down because the cherry is stuck in it but it won't delay him much. 6e also gave the kid a fork and a sign saying "Eat the cherry first, it's creme-filled and easier than ever to eat".

Sprinkles are often hard and to be a pain to get rid of in your mouth.

And in order to eat the cherry/sprinkles first, the cupcake has to get close to the kid's mouth, where it is too close for the kid to react in some form of defensive manner against the cupcake which is now bashing the kid's face in with a cupcake-of-death equivalent to a big choppa and making the kid fail his leadership test.

I would counterpropose Orks as a box of sweets

The Battlewagon would be the Spring Surprise

Ascalam wrote:

Dr. What wrote:

UrgThraka wrote:

Think of an Ork army as a cupcake.

Ok, believe it or not that makes sense to me.

Does that mean I'm actually sane...or crazy?

UrgThraka wrote:
More analogies GO!...
Instead of sprinkles, think of the BW as a cherry on top (because it's a fair number of your points when properly loaded up) and your opponent is the hungry kid left with the cupcake. The cherry is the first thing to go and it goes fast. The frosting may slow the kid down because the cherry is stuck in it but it won't delay him much. 6e also gave the kid a fork and a sign saying "Eat the cherry first, it's creme-filled and easier than ever to eat".

Sprinkles are often hard and to be a pain to get rid of in your mouth.

And in order to eat the cherry/sprinkles first, the cupcake has to get close to the kid's mouth, where it is too close for the kid to react in some form of defensive manner against the cupcake which is now bashing the kid's face in with a cupcake-of-death equivalent to a big choppa and making the kid fail his leadership test.

I would counterpropose Orks as a box of sweets

The Battlewagon would be the Spring Surprise

An explosion of metal bits? Sounds more like a trukk...

And I suppose that Snikrot and Kommandos are now that machine that goes "PING!"? (Rather useless and just with the rest for aesthetics)

It's not an explosion

The contents of the sweet (BW) fong you hard, jsut as you think you are chowing down on a succulent treat

Are we going t o see more 2 up armor this edition? Are kmbs any more potent now and worth considering especially since ap2 hurts vehicles more?

2+ is the new black, or would be if 2+3++ hadn't been the new black already. Meganobz are a bit more worthwhile though.

KMB are less worth it now. Thy still kill you more effectively than the 2+ armoured enemy, and vehicle mounted ones can kill the vehicle now..

Off the topic of green pastries, here's an interesting question on the logic of GW:

Tankbusts, Orks that are addicted to hunting tanks, don't have the tank hunters special rule?

That one has been bemoaned since they lost it with the new codex, back when.

I think the idea is that none of them survive long enough to actually get skilled at it

Ascalam wrote:

I think the idea is that none of them survive long enough to actually get skilled at it

Hehehehe I like the Orky thought in that. Pity though.

Here's what I plan on running next week when I finally get a game of 6th ed in (it'll be against Tau):



Thoughts?

Worth a shot

Tau will probably have that on their minds..

tkrettler91 wrote:

Dr. What wrote:I have 2 things to say in this post:

1) Were Big Choppas turned to Power Axes? (I don't have my rulebook yet, it's coming next week, but there was nothing on it in the FAQ.)

big choppas were never power weapons only added +2 str.

Small history lesson. When 3rd edition first was released it had all the armies and their weapon stats in the back of the book. At that time Ork Big Choppas were power weapons. Then shortly after its release the Orks got a codex and the power weapon went away.

Just some worthless trivia. But at one time, short though it may have been, Orks did have access to power weapons.

We do have Access to Power Weapons. Entire Squads of them, in fact. Burnas are Power Weapons.

Also, Wierdboyz, when they roll a 1, 2 or 3 in CC channel the WAAAGH!! energy into their attacks, giving them Power Weapon attacks.

It's Melta that we have precious little of, only available on a single Weirdboy power.