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kowbasher wrote:Swore that was always the normalish price, but yea so much for a new plastic meganobz and big gunz kit eh?

In the short-term yes. There is still reasonable scope for a meganob plastic set for the next codex.
At least it means that we have the TL-shoota variant back, which had been missing from stores/online for a good while.

Dribble Joy wrote:

KingCracker wrote:This is obviously the a case of "Written before fliers existed" Meaning this is a RAI deal, OBVIOUSLY the fighta ace is meant to shoot at fliers, because it was used that way before fliers was invented. Please, PLEASE dont become another GWAR!

I'm sure it will be FAQed at some point, but in the mean time fliers are rather notable in their absence from the Fighta Ace rules.

So then the Fighta Ace upgrade is suppose to do what exactly? According to your rules lawyering, absolutely nothing, which is just stupid TBH. The Fighta Ace is meant for downing fliers. Period. RAI once again. I think youll just end up making enemies trying to pull that argument on people.

Hey Ork playerz,

I've always wanted to start an Ork army, and I think I may finally take the plunge and join the WAAAAGH! I've read through this thread trying to glean some knowledge for 6th ed. Anybody have any stories regarding a nob biker army? They look strong on paper with LOS shenanigans and being actual T5 now, but I'd like to hear any more thoughts on the matter.

I've been thinking of running a 1000pts biker list, like this;

Warboss - Warbike, Cybork Body, Power Klaw/135pts
Warboss - Warbike, Cybork Body, Power Klaw/135pts
Nobz Bikerz (4) - 2x Power Klaw, 1x Big Choppa, Bosspole, Waaagh! Banner, Painboy, Cybork Bodies/305pts
Nobz Bikerz (4) - 2x Power Klaw, 1x Big Choppa, Bosspole, Waaagh! Banner, Painboy, Cybork Bodies/305pts
Dakkajet - 3x SupaShoota/120pts

Small, easy to carry around, low initial investment, and plays vastly different than my IG army, which is what I'm going for.

Running this list for more intro games of 6th.
Boyz in wagons attached to HQs. Hail of fire as we cross the board. Soften em up with 18" boyz fire. Biker Boss LOSing behind BWs till they close the gap. End the game with charges.
Any suggestions?

HQ
Warboss on Bike w/ PK, Cybork
Big Mek w/ KFF
220

Elite
5x Lootas
5x Lootas
150

Troops
19x Shoota Boyz - Nob w/ PK, BP
19x Shoota Boyz - Nob w/ PK, BP
308

Heavy
Battle Wagon w/ RPJ, 4x Rokkits
Battle Wagon w/ RPJ, 4x Rokkits
270

Total 988

kowbasher wrote:

Dr. What wrote:I believe all Ork players were just kicked wherever they would feel the most pain.

FInecast.

$22 Meganobs!?!?!

$45 ($20 increase) Kommandos!?!?!

Swore that was always the normalish price, but yea so much for a new plastic meganobz and big gunz kit eh?

Plastic MANz are rumored for the 2013 wave along with the FA stuff

Blacksails wrote:Hey Ork playerz,

I've always wanted to start an Ork army, and I think I may finally take the plunge and join the WAAAAGH! I've read through this thread trying to glean some knowledge for 6th ed. Anybody have any stories regarding a nob biker army? They look strong on paper with LOS shenanigans and being actual T5 now, but I'd like to hear any more thoughts on the matter.

I've been thinking of running a 1000pts biker list, like this;

Warboss - Warbike, Cybork Body, Power Klaw/135pts
Warboss - Warbike, Cybork Body, Power Klaw/135pts
Nobz Bikerz (4) - 2x Power Klaw, 1x Big Choppa, Bosspole, Waaagh! Banner, Painboy, Cybork Bodies/305pts
Nobz Bikerz (4) - 2x Power Klaw, 1x Big Choppa, Bosspole, Waaagh! Banner, Painboy, Cybork Bodies/305pts
Dakkajet - 3x SupaShoota/120pts

Small, easy to carry around, low initial investment, and plays vastly different than my IG army, which is what I'm going for.

Not positive, as I haven't run a biker heavy list yet, but it might be, based on what I see there, that 1k is too low of a point value to properly do Nob Bikers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

kenshin620 wrote:

kowbasher wrote:

Dr. What wrote:I believe all Ork players were just kicked wherever they would feel the most pain.

FInecast.

$22 Meganobs!?!?!

$45 ($20 increase) Kommandos!?!?!

Swore that was always the normalish price, but yea so much for a new plastic meganobz and big gunz kit eh?

Plastic MANz are rumored for the 2013 wave along with the FA stuff

Does anyone have a link to the Ork wave rumor? I'd like to read it.

Dr. What wrote:I believe all Ork players were just kicked wherever they would feel the most pain.

FInecast.

$22 Meganobs!?!?!

$45 ($20 increase) Kommandos!?!?!

Ya meganobs were always to expensive around 20 each for the metal so 200 bucks to make a 10 man squad. Hence my megnobs are just terminator bodies with ork arms legs and heads with the shoulder armor and powerclaws I actually like how they look that way anyways.

matphat wrote:

Does anyone have a link to the Ork wave rumor? I'd like to read it.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/454213.page

KingCracker wrote:So then the Fighta Ace upgrade is suppose to do what exactly?

Erm... what it says? Strafing run does not assist against jetbikes and skimmers. Fighta Ace counters this.

According to your rules lawyering

Rules Lawyering? The rules specifically state what types of unit are and are not affected by the rule. Fliers are not included.

Wreckin' Balls, Boarding Planks and Grabing Klaws affecting Fliers is rules lawyering.
Crowe's close combat attacks Rend on a 4+, Cleansing Flame wounds are classed as close combat attacks: if Crowe casts Cleansing Flame all the Cleansing Flame wounds Rend. That's rules lawyering.

The Fighta Ace is meant for downing fliers. Period. RAI once again.

Except that there in nothing in the rules that alludes to this. RAI is where the intention is clear but the wording is vague. The ruling by the FAQ is not vague in the slightest, it simply does not mention fliers at all.

I think youll just end up making enemies trying to pull that argument on people.

What argument? That I should be able to do something 'because I should' regardless of the fact that the rule(s) simply do not allow it?

Fine, the charge of a mob of meganobs is described as unstoppable. This doesn't mean I try to claim that they should gain Hammer of Wrath when they charge or any similar benefit to suit their supposed ability to steamroller an opponent.

So i am gonna lose some major face among you orkish hordes but I can't seem to locate where exactly Waagh turned into Fleet?

Also, just clarifiying orks have no trees of pyschic power (not sure how i would even know if we did) and no special warlord abilities right?

Waaagh grants you Fleet of Foot for the round it's called : PG 31 Ork codex - Ork Special Rules.

Ghazzy also gets an armour buff

With fleet no longer allowing you to assault afterwards, it rather takes away from WAAAGH,as you won't be in combat at the end of the round you run at the enemy screaming it, which is kind of the point Very un-orky


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Orks got left out of the new Psyker goodness, as we have our own powers.

Not sure on the Warlord stuff.

Ascalam wrote:Waaagh grants you Fleet of Foot for the round it's called : PG 31 Ork codex - Ork Special Rules.

Ghazzy also gets an armour buff

With fleet no longer allowing you to assault afterwards, it rather takes away from WAAAGH,as you won't be in combat at the end of the round you run at the enemy screaming it, which is kind of the point Very un-orky


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Orks got left out of the new Psyker goodness, as we have our own powers.

Not sure on the Warlord stuff.

Ohhhh-okay derp! now i remember reading that in our old codex i thought it was address as something else enitrely for some strange reason. I dunno it's really hard to read this Faq OR ANYTHING in 6th for some reason for me. thanks for clearing that up. figured we did but also figured I'd ask again to be on the safe side

kowbasher wrote:

Dr. What wrote:I believe all Ork players were just kicked wherever they would feel the most pain.

FInecast.

$22 Meganobs!?!?!

$45 ($20 increase) Kommandos!?!?!

Swore that was always the normalish price, but yea so much for a new plastic meganobz and big gunz kit eh?

I have a theory about this: So, something nobody really thinks about is the time and money it takes to design new models and create the infrastructure to mass produce, market (don't laugh, it happens, a little.) and distribute them. Also, there's a lot of differences between Metal and Plastic in the terms of material flow, bubble formation, and even mold material. Games Workshop probably starts the design process for every sprue months or even years in advance, and it probably takes a few months just to create the molds (from outsourced manufacturing or in-house production).

So, what happens when the company suddenly gets a "New Direction" and an Executive edict to go 'metalless', but you have dozens of popular old metal molds that don't have any plastic replacements ready yet- as well as newly made metal molds, which you've already invested hundreds of dollars in, but aren't allowed to use metal in them? You can't just start injecting plastic into them, it has the wrong properties- a Resin is better, but most Resins aren't going to work well or run through the molds as well either. So GW develops or has developed for them a custom resin that will mimic the mold properties of white metal, so they can use it for a while until they've 'cycled through' their line and created new plastics for all of the units.


Basically, Finecast is nothing more than a stopgap. How many Finecast models don't have a Metal counterpart, and what's the timeframe of their release? I think the whole Finecast thing is just GW running into the problem of Executive Timeframe vs Actual Timeframe.

I can't see them dropping resin in favour of an all plastic model range. Resin casts produce better detailing and avoid the problems that comes from the nature of the moulds use in making the plastics. Plastic moulds are also incredibly expensive to create (though cheaper to run) so there has to be the demand in order to warrant the initial outlay. There's no business sense in making a Slyth plastic set for example.

I disagree on Resin (the Finecast one) producing more detailed results. I have all but given up on finding a decent Finecast KFF Mek, and I've checked blisters at 6 GW stores already. If anything, they lose detail compared to the metal one I own, similar problems can be observed on finecast tanbustaz vs metal ones. I'm not happy with finecast, but for that kind of money I should be. Right now, I'm scouring ebay for metal models rather than buying finecast, and I wasn't biased towards at all when it came out.
I'm simply not willing to buy a product that has a high probability of being flawed, especially if they sell two other products(plastic&metal) which I never had any problems with at all.

I don't think the demand vs investment argument is that strong. Nothing prevents them from, for example, putting three sprues of tactical marines and one sprue of maegnus calgar on the same mold.

Kommandoz were overpriced anyways. There's no way, I'm going to pay 35€ for four fancy boyz. "Luckily" GW nerfed then to the ground.

Jidmah wrote:I disagree on Resin (the Finecast one) producing more detailed results

I believe that the claim was about resin in general not the finecast one. There are really good resins that have better detail than plastic or metal. But there are also really nasty quality ones. The point is that the whole line will never be converted to plastic because it is simply not viable. The rare units will always have to be made in some other material. With the cost of the metal going up GW wanted to save money by swapping to resin, but that would mean redesign the casts and or some of the miniatures, which could be even more expensive. That was the reason they developed finecast so they could use the same molds they were already used for metal.

But anyhoo remember this is ork tactics thread and that we don't need another finecast hate thread.

FINECAST. We took existing sculpts and manufactured them in resin. FINECAST. Buy now.

FINALLY getting to play 6th for the first time on Sunday. Bout friggin time. Also my son and I played a 650pts game last night, and I used the rules from 6th I could remember well enough, and so tried out my bikerboss w/5koptas and a buzzsaw. It was pretty effective on the table. The shooting was devastating, and they were tough as nails against normal troops. My son even charged with a chaos dread, and my boss only took 1 wound and proceeded to hand the dread its ass on a silver plate. I wouldnt recommend just letting a dread attack your boss, but it is nice not dying to ID as he would have in 5th.

Also, I tried a nob with just a bigshoota in my mobs, not sure about it yet. Part of me still wants the PK in there, I guess I have to play more to see whats what.

KingCracker wrote: I wouldnt recommend just letting a dread attack your boss, but it is nice not dying to ID as he would have in 5th.

Not only that but you get a 5+ FNP against S10 if they're in a Biker Nob squad. Which if you think about it is pretty rad, and same thing for your Nob Bikers against anything S8.

I have actually preferred finecast *dodges rocks*. Metal is so annoying to work with and convert. Although it took awhile before anything was bad enough to call in(I REALLY wanted a second obyron) I got a free white scars and iron hands kits. Totally worth the money before hand and even better now. I have enough parts to make my non iron hands guys have tech parts.

Back to orks, I am trying to design a nob biker unit. I was it to have 6 members and was thinking something like this.

Painboy
1x nob with power claw and combi scorcha
1x nob with waaaggghhh banner
1x nob
2x nob with big choppa

Is cybork body worth it on these guys?

This is accompanied by a warboss with bike, cybork, and claw.

Thats 486 points without the cybork on the nobs

I was also thinking of taking as allies for my necrons

Wazdakka
3x bikes, nob with big choppas
7x bikes nob with big choppa

460 points. It really adds some durable scoring as well as solid CC power to my list

Thoughts?

Trying out 6th soon enough in an escalation league and this seemed like the most viable tactic for them at this time since it is only 500 pts. I am a big nervous about my number or orks and think i should maybe run something else so any suggestions for a very low starting point is very welcome indeed. I obviously took the warboss for his incredible toughness and I felt the kombi-skorcha might be a good choice. The nobs i was tempted to not take them as the suggestion but since i wasn't able to max out squads felt the bosspoles might be needed. since i did have some points left over i decided to make them tougher with eavy armor and throw in big choppa and big shoota for good measure. could you foresee any problems based on this set up? or again suggestions to improve it?

500 Pts - Codex: Orks Roster

HQ: Warboss (1#, 120 pts)
1 Warboss, 120 pts ('Eavy Armour; Attack Squig; Cybork Body; Power Klaw; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon)

Troops: Boyz (21#, 156 pts)
20 Boyz, 156 pts (Shootas)
1 Boyz Nob ('Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Big Choppa; Big Shoota)

Troops: Boyz (21#, 156 pts)
20 Boyz, 156 pts (Shootas)
1 Boyz Nob ('Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Big Choppa; Big Shoota)

Heavy Support: Big Gunz (kannons)
3 Big Gunz,
6 Gretchin

Composition Report:
HQ: 1 (1 - 2)
Troops: 2 (2 - 6)
Heavy: 1 (0 - 3)

Total Roster Cost: 492

Leth wrote:
nob bikers

Is cybork body worth it on these guys?

Depends. In shooting it would confer no benefit, and likewise against anything in CC that was not a Power Weapon. It is a considerable amount of points...30 points for a 6 man unit, of course.

In CC, you will get your Feel No Pain 5+ save against everything, including Thunder Hammers, and you will never be instant death'ed by anything, so you are afforded some measure of protection regardless.

However, if you are spending 400 points on a unit that specializes in close combat, which will presumably be thrusting into close combat with the likes of Terminators, Grey Knights, Monstrous Creatures, and Dreadnoughts...wouldn't you prefer to have a 5+ invulnerable save?

If you didn't buy Cybork, I would contend that it would considerably reduce the tactical flexibility of the Nobs, albeit, at the same time, they would still be an incredibly powerful unit capable of successful assaults against all kinds of units.

I have always been a big fan of artillery - just the Kannons though. Zzap guns and Lobbas just don't do it for me. It's funny to watch MEQ take the Str 8 AP 3 to the face at BS3.

And now with the changes making them basically 2W T7 creatures, I like them more. It's just that Loota's will fill this roll better now with the changes to the Glancing hits. Still, at 80pts or so, they're hard to pass up. And you can buy wounds at 3pts each? Good times.

kowbasher wrote:

Dr. What wrote:I believe all Ork players were just kicked wherever they would feel the most pain.

FInecast.

$22 Meganobs!?!?!

$45 ($20 increase) Kommandos!?!?!

Swore that was always the normalish price, but yea so much for a new plastic meganobz and big gunz kit eh?

Yup. There is some fantasy Empire sprue that comes with both a cannon and mortar, so I'm using those sprews to get my squads of guns.

TedNugent wrote:never be instant death'ed by anything, so you are afforded some measure of protection regardless.

Aside from DCCWs and stuff like Lysander. But yes.

I wonder though whether nob bikers are our ideal choice for taking on close combat units. I'd say our anti-deathstar unit is now meganobs (though the bikers are better at taking on the PF armed opponents).

I thought with the price increase we'd see better deals for Big Guns - at $30 maybe get 3 in the pack like killa kans. But alas, it's still just one freaking weapon team.

And it's not even 1 team with 3 different options. You are just buying the specific team! Very stupid. The Empire idea is actually pretty good as it does come with different options.

But, back OT.

I used Nob bikers exclusively through 5th ed. 2 Warboss, 2 Squads wreck face. Nothing about that has changed. And we're "saving" points now by not having to add additional crap to make them each different.

Hitting 80% of things on 3's, Wounding on 2's, no save. Even better since there's no instagib - the warboss is freaking amazing.

I think until we get nerfed by a new non-Ward codex, Orks are the premiere army.

KingCracker wrote:

Dribble Joy wrote:

KingCracker wrote:This is obviously the a case of "Written before fliers existed" Meaning this is a RAI deal, OBVIOUSLY the fighta ace is meant to shoot at fliers, because it was used that way before fliers was invented. Please, PLEASE dont become another GWAR!

I'm sure it will be FAQed at some point, but in the mean time fliers are rather notable in their absence from the Fighta Ace rules.

So then the Fighta Ace upgrade is suppose to do what exactly? According to your rules lawyering, absolutely nothing, which is just stupid TBH. The Fighta Ace is meant for downing fliers. Period. RAI once again. I think youll just end up making enemies trying to pull that argument on people.

If' we're going off of pure RAW, the Dakkajet hits flyers on BS3. Because the entry states "When shooting at etc etc etc and vehicles without the skimmer type, the Dakkajet has +1 BS.

That includes flyers.

Dakkajet Fighta Ace just adds +1 BS to skimmers and such. I am inclined to think that they MEANT for that to apply to flyers, but atm it is the exact opposite.

In other words, the Dakkajet hits flyers at BS3 regardless of whether or not it has a Fighta Ace upgrade.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/07/40k-san-diego-game-empire-gt-review.html

First GT result I've seen after 6. I'm fairly convinced Orks are the strongest army right now, with the possible exception of Necrons. My biggest surprised in the results is that there is only one necron player?

There's a lot of talk about the value of Burna Boyz in Overwatch.

But by using burnaz as flamers, wouldn't they lose power weapon status?

Can you fire overwatch with only some members of the squad? Because then you could estimate the number of casualties you might take from people attacking at a higher initative, then only overwatch with them, and keep power weapons on the ones that should be alive.