Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Graxous wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Is it common for contract disputes before a small claims court to have a jury? I was under the impression that they were typically heard before a judge

In Utah the limit of small claims is $10,000 including attorney fees - judging by the scope of the project it may exceed this amount.
http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title78A/Chapter8/78A-8-S102.html

Is it heard in front of a judge, or is a jury involved?

I believe small claims would be just a judge. Above small claims, which this case probably is, it can go either way.

I'm almost inclined to say going before a judge would be the better route(and certainly the least expensive and least "waste" of the courts time). A single judge is likely to have a far better grasp on the finer points of contract law, and would likely see a quick resolution to this case.

At least that's what the optimist in me wants to believe. I would also imagine that small claims court sees a decent amount of contract suits.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Graxous wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Is it common for contract disputes before a small claims court to have a jury? I was under the impression that they were typically heard before a judge

In Utah the limit of small claims is $10,000 including attorney fees - judging by the scope of the project it may exceed this amount.
http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title78A/Chapter8/78A-8-S102.html

Is it heard in front of a judge, or is a jury involved?

I believe small claims would be just a judge. Above small claims, which this case probably is, it can go either way.

Utah is $10,000 max on small claims according to this site...

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/small-claims-suits-how-much-30031.html

Any estimates on how much this project cost?

I know Chaos dwarves are expensive in their own right, and painting can get up there as well. Anyone try and throw down the math?

 Lord Commissar wrote:
Any estimates on how much this project cost?

I know Chaos dwarves are expensive in their own right, and painting can get up there as well. Anyone try and throw down the math?

He hasnt said but when people talked about the 7-9k range he said it wasnt far off for painting that is

OP. I remember seeing you on a TV documentary and mentioning to my girlfriend "those look like warhammer army cases". Turns out I was correct. You seemed like a good dude though so I truly hope this matter is resolved. That paint work is a shambles

Noir wrote:

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Lt. Coldfire wrote:
M0ff3l, you should watch the videos for one. But really, all you need to know is he asked for blood and gore equal to that of a Saw movie and instead got a lava OSL effect. Talk about being WAY off. That right there is a deal breaker alone.

Did he ask for that saw gore in his master instructions? Do you know? Did you read them? NO HE TOLD YOU THAT HE WANTED THAT. There is no proof he actually wrote that to BTP. Also I watched the videos, but asking for something in a video =/= proof he actually requested that to BTP.

I hope you do use BTP, as you don't see a problem, go for it.

Because there is no better accolade than 'For several thousand dollars I got horrible service and a terrible paint job!'

The Auld Grump

Honestly, for me, the paint job and cost isn't the issue.

It's the unwillingness to work towards any sort of mutually satisfactory resolution with the client.

If that Level 6 is the best work they can crank out... well yeah, take your business elsewere.

 tenebre wrote:
Another studio has offered to get the army up to the standard I requested for gratis. Not an entire repaint but that would be ridiculous for anyone to undertake without pay. I will be posting a video on this entire process step by step with before and after shots. Should start next week or the week after with weekly updates.
I would love to review any painting studios work since I really do not like doing negative videos about the hobby I love. So I truly hope that all future videos will have a happy feeling to them.
I truly feel that anyone YWPA, winterdyne etc that would offer such a thing truly and deeply believes in their work.

Brings a tear to me eye. \m/

When this community shines it really shines brightly. Kudos to the studio who is helping out, and to all the other painters who have offered assistance!

Amazing news, DarkTraveler777 hit the nail on the head. This community has its moments, but I've never seen a tighter community willing to go the extra mile to help someone out.

This is absolutely bizarre. I learned to paint using value tinting and blending by watching BTP videos on MWG. They must have known how to paint at some point. I'd hardly consider myself pro-caliber and I would be ashamed to field a "level 6" job like this;
https://web.archive.org/web/20070808002453/http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_image.php?imgID=32716

Hell, pick any unit from Tenebre's army, and you could do a better job on a rainy weekend with drybrush and wash.

They know how to paint. But strict timelimit is enforced. This is a buisiness, not a hobby.

They don't paint any second more than they need to.

They drybrush.

Watch a Den of Imagination video if you want to see a studio with artists actually painting. I've never seen primer showing on any of the DoI pictures.

It's been quite a lomg time since I've seen any actual painting done on a btp video.

They must go through a lot of handsoap though with all that drybrush hand going around.

Hopefully the Black Table Painting issue gets resolved to the OPs satisfaction.

RoninXiC wrote:
They know how to paint. But strict timelimit is enforced. This is a buisiness, not a hobby.

They don't paint any second more than they need to.

Except they were still late with Tenebre's project

 heartserenade wrote:
Not to mention if OP didn't bring this up and it didn't get this much attention, it might not have caught YWPA's attention as well. Justice may not be served right now, but at least OP's getting a well painted army that he wants.

Guys, TWPA offered to repaint one unit or character model. Which is a nice offer, no doubt, but it's not the entire army by any means. Stop restating that the offer was to repaint the lot.

Reading FTW.

A studio is repainting the whole lot apparently (for free). Dunno who though.

Yeah, it would be great to get the studip's name. Goodwill points!

 M0ff3l wrote:

Im sorry for breaking my vow, but its hard when people talk to me like this.

First of all: I can hold out a blank paper on youtube and say im reading verbatim from it and then make gak up. Also I can read verbatim and only read the parts that benefactor me. As my long post said Im not saying the OP made his story up, but the lack of proof and the lack of requested proof are very dissapointing to me.

Also have you commissioned from BTP before? Because I send them my instructions just 2 days ago, and that was after I paid my 65% deposit. So I kinda know what im talking about here? They send you this automated email after your 65% deposit, telling you to carefully read it, write any specific things you want in the document and send it back.

Could you please start a new thread here and post ALL correspondence between yourself and BTP, as it happens? I'd be interested to see your specifications, how well they communicate, how fast they communicate, etc, sample shots and all the rest as the project progresses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ustrello wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

That level six deathwing terminator though..

Wait that was a Deathwing? I genuinely thought it was a homebrew chapter that used white armour.

Yeah thats what I thought til I looked at the title. Also the IG sarge is pretty bad too no shading on the body at all

Wow, that's level 6? I should start taking commissions again.

The picture is from 2006... Any one have an example within the last few years? Hopefully one someone here owns.

Are you still talking with BTP? or is that long gone at this point?

 Igenstilch wrote:
The picture is from 2006... Any one have an example within the last few years? Hopefully one someone here owns.

Are you still talking with BTP? or is that long gone at this point?

I stopped when the retracted the last offer i accepted.

I am not sending them the models again for any reason and a store credit isnt even a legitimate offer. Not much else to say really.

I also would like to see some recent work. They state they do so many projects and that many are far larger than mine. Where are all these models? with the claim of 8000 customers I would think there would be more than 2 videos on youtube. (I do mean not from their own channel of course)

When you type Blue Table Painting review into google all you get is your video and some links from years ago.

Maybe the successfully pressure people into taking down negative reviews or maybe people don't bother out of shame. Maybe some thing they get a good deal.

Although there is this one from last year.

http://sistersofbattle.org/2013/07/blue-table-painting-review/

They resolved it, but it ends by saying not to use again.

http://sistersofbattle.org/2013/08/blue-table-painting-review-update/

Lurker mode off...

All I have to say is....I have worked in manufacturing for 20+ years at all levels including quality control. If a customer has a issue with our product, a full credit is sent, the material is returned and if possible reworked then sent back to the customer when reordered. I don't think the OP would have posted a video if they would have listen to his problems and try to fix them correctly in the first place. Plus the last I saw was this was going around number four.. that has to be super frustrating ..For the money he spent I think one of the Asian painting service would send someone to his house to paint for six weeks.

 Medium of Death wrote:

Although there is this one from last year.
http://sistersofbattle.org/2013/07/blue-table-painting-review/
They resolved it, but it ends by saying not to use again.
http://sistersofbattle.org/2013/08/blue-table-painting-review-update/

That site is from Kansas City and the OP is from St Louis ...Maybe BTP has something against Missouri .

Holy gak, those are sloppy.

"Hmmm... do I shoot them with my Storm Bolter or my Healing Blaster?....sooo confused!"

Good luck on your resolution, Tenebre, hope the pro bono re-paint goes well. Be sure and post a vid of the results!

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:


"Hmmm... do I shoot them with my Storm Bolter or my Healing Blaster?....sooo confused!"

Good luck on your resolution, Tenebre, hope the pro bono re-paint goes well. Be sure and post a vid of the results!

The repainters have had the army 2 weeks.... yesterday I spoke with the artist . The time of that phone call was LONGER than all the communication from BTP the entire time.
And yes I will be showing off the work done as soon as possible. So far, I am stunned at how different the process is (for the better).

I will start a new thread for the repaint as i do not want to mix the discussions.

 Medium of Death wrote:
When you type Blue Table Painting review into google all you get is your video and some links from years ago.

Maybe the successfully pressure people into taking down negative reviews or maybe people don't bother out of shame. Maybe some thing they get a good deal.

Although there is this one from last year.

http://sistersofbattle.org/2013/07/blue-table-painting-review/

They resolved it, but it ends by saying not to use again.

http://sistersofbattle.org/2013/08/blue-table-painting-review-update/

Seem to me BTP and MWG claims that unsatisfied customers are very rare seem more and more like nothing but dirty lies.

 Reality-Torrent wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
When you type Blue Table Painting review into google all you get is your video and some links from years ago.

Maybe the successfully pressure people into taking down negative reviews or maybe people don't bother out of shame. Maybe some thing they get a good deal.

Although there is this one from last year.

http://sistersofbattle.org/2013/07/blue-table-painting-review/

They resolved it, but it ends by saying not to use again.

http://sistersofbattle.org/2013/08/blue-table-painting-review-update/

Seem to me BTP and MWG claims that unsatisfied customers are very rare seem more and more like nothing but dirty lies.

Another one posted on Warseer by Wombone that mirrors Tenebre's experience

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?400889-My-Blue-Table-Painting-Experience-with-Chaos-Dwarves/page21

Seriqolm wrote:

 Reality-Torrent wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
When you type Blue Table Painting review into google all you get is your video and some links from years ago.

Maybe the successfully pressure people into taking down negative reviews or maybe people don't bother out of shame. Maybe some thing they get a good deal.

Although there is this one from last year.

http://sistersofbattle.org/2013/07/blue-table-painting-review/

They resolved it, but it ends by saying not to use again.

http://sistersofbattle.org/2013/08/blue-table-painting-review-update/

Seem to me BTP and MWG claims that unsatisfied customers are very rare seem more and more like nothing but dirty lies.

Another one posted on Warseer by Wombone that mirrors Tenebre's experience

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?400889-My-Blue-Table-Painting-Experience-with-Chaos-Dwarves/page21

Ugh, if it is true that Shawn is sharing private e-mail conversations with other clients that is absolutely disgusting and makes me question his business ethics even more than I have been with this commission.