Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2014/11/05 22:27:51
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
Curious on this, I attempted to look up what the individual levels of work are meant to be. They've removed their levels guide from their website and made the video of the levels private. Something one could easily interpret as an acknowledgement of guilt and an attempt at damage control for a potential court case. Then again, I'm a cynic and only the ineptest of conmen would attempt such juvenile acts when such material has been on a website and youtube for years.
2014/11/05 22:32:07
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
Sorry, their definition of high end tabletop / cabinet / display / competition quality is really... well. Awful. They just can't seem to do it.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong; but given that they couldn't even pull out any stops for a high-profile release (Robotech) I don't really think they can hit the quality.
2014/11/05 22:32:45
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
M0ff3l wrote: I have not had an ETA yet, as I just send my army out yesterday. Im sure I will hear from them once it arrives and will be sure to keep you updated. I have already decided that once I get the army back I will post pictures + my master instructions so everyone can decide if BTP kept their end of the bargain and followed my instructions.
No response on the fact that he was reading verbatim from his instruction sheet? That's cool - you don't have to admit you were wrong.
EDIT @: reality-torment: I can assure you 100% that I dont work for BTP, and have never worked with BTP before. Also if you read the email on the previous page, and my post you quoted, that mail was AFTER he had paid. So no we dont know if he really asked that before he commissioned the project. But Im the only one here who really cares about proof anyways so. Also to me, you are the one making a fool out of yourself claiming im some kind of undercover BTP employee lol.
The email from Shawn was in reply to the final instructions. I'm pretty sure (but not 100% sure) that the payment was not sent before the final instructions were.
Im sorry for breaking my vow, but its hard when people talk to me like this.
First of all: I can hold out a blank paper on youtube and say im reading verbatim from it and then make gak up. Also I can read verbatim and only read the parts that benefactor me. As my long post said Im not saying the OP made his story up, but the lack of proof and the lack of requested proof are very dissapointing to me.
So then there's literally no proof that could convince you. After all, he might just be typing stuff into dakka rather than copy/pasting from an email!
When Shawn and BTP don't attempt to contradict or correct anything he's said, and doing so would distinctly help their case, why do you doubt anything the OP has said?
Also have you commissioned from BTP before? Because I send them my instructions just 2 days ago, and that was after I paid my 65% deposit. So I kinda know what im talking about here? They send you this automated email telling you to carefully read it, write any specific things you want in the document and send it back after you paid the first deposit.
As I said, I wasn't 100% sure - but you actually get an automated email from Shawn's account? And which method of getting your quote did you choose? They offer 3 on their website.
How can they generate a valid quote without knowing what you want? I'm confused on that.
"shawns account" is just the projects@bluetablepainting.com email. When I inquired about my quote some other employee (whose name i will not post) answered using that mail, but my mailing software displayed it as an email from shawn gately.
I mailed them a full list of what needed to be painted + what levels i wanted. They responded with an excell document where you can modify the levels and the shipping etc and the prices will automatically updated, pretty nifty actually. I dont know if the mail was actually automated, it might just have been copy pasted. It was in a different font than the other emails, so it could be either. Also they just have set prices for models (presumably depending on base size etc) depending on the level. After that you tell them what colors etc you want.
also @some other above posts: My post LITTERALY said I didnt think the OP was making this up. So no I dont need anymor evidence. Honestly I just wanted to see his master instructions to see if mine were similar or if his was even more detailed than mine. so I could update it and send it back to BTP if that was the case.
2014/11/05 22:33:58
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
Gullinbursti wrote: Curious on this, I attempted to look up what the individual levels of work are meant to be. They've removed their levels guide from their website and made the video of the levels private. Something one could easily interpret as an acknowledgement of guilt and an attempt at damage control for a potential court case. Then again, I'm a cynic and only the ineptest of conmen would attempt such juvenile acts when such material has been on a website and youtube for years.
For the most part it was about the number of Highlight and shadowing layers. So if you want a level 4 paint the miniature would have 4 levels of highlights and shadows and a level 6 would have 6 levels. Also at level 3 and above all the details are suppose to be picked out.
Also have you commissioned from BTP before? Because I send them my instructions just 2 days ago, and that was after I paid my 65% deposit. So I kinda know what im talking about here? They send you this automated email after your 65% deposit, telling you to carefully read it, write any specific things you want in the document and send it back.
And did you follow those instructions from the automated email? And if you did, what makes you think the OP didn't?
I followed them closely, specifically said everything that I had in mind about my army in the document. I can see how the OP would like to keep contact etc. But as I am in europe I just wanted to explain everything as best as possible. So maybe the OP neglected the specifics in his instructions because he assumed he would be having regular contact with the company. I dont know that, I cant know that without seeing his master instructions myself you know.
The email i got after the deposit:
This is a request for Instructions for your project. Please read this carefully as this is our contract. I will solidify quote and accept deposit once this is in.
If you have already sent Instructions, you will need to re-send them in response to this email before your project can proceed.
We need from you a single document that we can print out and put in a bin with your models such that Assembler and Painter will all know what to do without any further input. The artists do not have access to company email.
You may use the attached as a fill-in-the-blanks or just respond to this email. It is up to you to give us all the information that we need.
Nothing from emails or phone calls will make it to the artist. It ALL must go into a single written document.
You are welcome to leave details up to us. We will fill in where information is lacking using our best judgment.
If something you put in your Instructions was not quoted for, we will add that to the project total, just like ordering at a restaurant.
Take a few days to carefully consider your project as we would prefer not to alter the project after it starts. Making alterations after the project is started often creates complications.
When your project is done, if you want alterations of any kind there are two categories:
1) It was in your instructions and we did not follow them. There is no charge for this.
2) It was not in your instructions, but you still want it changed. We are happy to make the change, but there might be a charge. As long as you are willing to pay we are glad to re-do.
All projects are under our Terms of Service. By submitting your Instructions sheet you are agreeing to the Terms of Service.
BTP
I will just leave this here. In my opinion it cleary says, WITHOUT FURTHER INPUT, PAINTERS DONT HAVE ACCES TO COMPANY MAIL and NOTHING FROM EMAILS OR PHONE CALLS WILL MAKE ITTO THE ARTIST.
I mean if I was the OP i would have cancelled right there i guess.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/05 22:38:39
2014/11/05 22:36:29
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
Strange how tenebre would assume regular contact after BTP said they'd have that to him. Because, as we've seen, BTP said they'd be in regular contact and were not. Nice attempt at victim-blaming, though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/05 22:36:46
Oh, I have read it before, I'd considered doing a commission through them but quickly decided that Infinity scale models are beyond them (despite a couple of their employees having quite nice personal Infinity armies in the past). I just wanted to reread their exact terminology and noticed that in the past week or so everything that actually mentions level quality and expectation has been cleansed from every source they can get their hands on.
Edit: It's actually quite humorous, if I currently was someone who knew nothing of this issue and visited BTP, I wouldn't even be able to begin making a request for a painting commission thanks to the fact that there is currently no way, via BTP, to view their own painting levels. As I said before, a cynic, such as myself, might assume this is a childish attempt at damage control in hopes of claiming "those are scale six, he can't prove they aren't nyah nyah!" during a court case.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/05 22:41:35
2014/11/05 22:56:30
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
I have not had an ETA yet, as I just send my army out yesterday. Im sure I will hear from them once it arrives and will be sure to keep you updated. I have already decided that once I get the army back I will post pictures + my master instructions so everyone can decide if BTP kept their end of the bargain and followed my instructions.
Can you please provide a tracking number? That would be great. Otherwise it could just be someone saying they shipped an entire army the other day.
Good luck and take care
2014/11/05 22:59:01
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
I have not had an ETA yet, as I just send my army out yesterday. Im sure I will hear from them once it arrives and will be sure to keep you updated. I have already decided that once I get the army back I will post pictures + my master instructions so everyone can decide if BTP kept their end of the bargain and followed my instructions.
Can you please provide a tracking number? That would be great. Otherwise it could just be someone saying they shipped an entire army the other day.
Good luck and take care
It could be a fake tracking number.
I RIDE FOR DOOMTHUMBS!
2014/11/05 23:01:57
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
Gullinbursti wrote: They've removed their levels guide from their website and made the video of the levels private. Something one could easily interpret as an acknowledgement of guilt and an attempt at damage control for a potential court case.
It's certainly an attempt to conceal or rework the video so as to muddy the waters of a case. The 'levels' video clearly stated certain things for the level 5 'quality' that were clearly not included in the final product sent out to the OP (the command squad and the bull taurus with the lord on it especially were still stuck at a 3 from what I saw of them).
Hopefully someone computer savvy will be able to locate that video and link it for the OP. Once something's out on the internet, it's often difficult to put back in the box...
2014/11/05 23:05:59
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
M0ff3l wrote: I have not had an ETA yet, as I just send my army out yesterday. Im sure I will hear from them once it arrives and will be sure to keep you updated. I have already decided that once I get the army back I will post pictures + my master instructions so everyone can decide if BTP kept their end of the bargain and followed my instructions.
No response on the fact that he was reading verbatim from his instruction sheet? That's cool - you don't have to admit you were wrong.
EDIT @: reality-torment: I can assure you 100% that I dont work for BTP, and have never worked with BTP before. Also if you read the email on the previous page, and my post you quoted, that mail was AFTER he had paid. So no we dont know if he really asked that before he commissioned the project. But Im the only one here who really cares about proof anyways so. Also to me, you are the one making a fool out of yourself claiming im some kind of undercover BTP employee lol.
The email from Shawn was in reply to the final instructions. I'm pretty sure (but not 100% sure) that the payment was not sent before the final instructions were.
Im sorry for breaking my vow, but its hard when people talk to me like this.
Actually, it is only hard if you lack self control and discipline.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2014/11/05 23:12:44
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
This is a request for Instructions for your project. Please read this carefully as this is our contract. I will solidify quote and accept deposit once this is in.
The quote should be solid well before the deposit is taken. If I guess the job will take £2500 of work, I charge £2500. I can't take on the job then say, "Y'know what, you're changing your tune a bit now, it'll take £5000, oh, you don't want to pay, I'll keep your deposit".
If you have already sent Instructions, you will need to re-send them in response to this email before your project can proceed.
We need from you a single document that we can print out and put in a bin with your models such that Assembler and Painter will all know what to do without any further input. The artists do not have access to company email.
This is a really bad way of working.
Every job I've had I've been engaged in lengthy talks with the customers - "Is this red vibrant enough?" "Do you like the badgers?" "I don't think teal armour works - gonna try beige, see what you think", I'm using this (image) as reference, do you like that style or this (image)?
Clients very often DO NOT KNOW what they want before they talk about it. They might *think* they have an idea, but it may not work as they think it will - that's where talking to an experienced artist becomes important. In the OP's case for example, 'more gore than saw' sets off alarm bells for me. I know that over-gore looks awful - childish and crude. *Just enough* gore works, no more. If the client wants them knee-deep in claret, I can do it, but for the client's satisfaction, I will almost always advise against it, with image proofs and alternatives.
You may use the attached as a fill-in-the-blanks or just respond to this email. It is up to you to give us all the information that we need.
Nothing from emails or phone calls will make it to the artist. It ALL must go into a single written document.
Interesting - "tell us everything you want, in writing" - again, a client most often DOES NOT KNOW exactly what they want. They probably have an idea that needs developing.
You are welcome to leave details up to us. We will fill in where information is lacking using our best judgment.
If something you put in your Instructions was not quoted for, we will add that to the project total, just like ordering at a restaurant.
So at this point, without instruction and without careful artistic guidance, BTP have already decided how much the job is worth, and won't tell you how much the addition in your instructions is until they have your deposit and/or models hostage. Nice. I'd try that. Oh wait, no, I wouldn't - it's shady as feth and probably not legal.
Take a few days to carefully consider your project as we would prefer not to alter the project after it starts. Making alterations after the project is started often creates complications.
Nah, not really - minor tweaks aren't a problem; heck early enough even major ones aren't. Part and parcel of the reason for ongoing communication. This isn't software development - that's a case where changing the spec sucks.
When your project is done, if you want alterations of any kind there are two categories:
1) It was in your instructions and we did not follow them. There is no charge for this.
Stupid gets no prizes. This should be caught during the process with good communication.
2) It was not in your instructions, but you still want it changed. We are happy to make the change, but there might be a charge. As long as you are willing to pay we are glad to re-do.
What about 'it wasn't in your instructions, but we did it anyway?'. Again, any mistake in style or scheme should be caught early (test units/ models and some client approval process), but doing fixing something you did wrong off your own back is not a chargeable service.
All projects are under our Terms of Service. By submitting your Instructions sheet you are agreeing to the Terms of Service.
Ah, always read the small print too.
I will just leave this here. In my opinion it cleary says, WITHOUT FURTHER INPUT, PAINTERS DONT HAVE ACCES TO COMPANY MAIL and NOTHING FROM EMAILS OR PHONE CALLS WILL MAKE ITTO THE ARTIST.
I mean if I was the OP i would have cancelled right there i guess.
At last, something we agree on.
2014/11/05 23:25:55
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
BewareOfTom wrote: well I did some small searching and I found their old picture guide for level samples (from 2012, but pictures are from 2007 I guess)
Yeah, it seems like they updated their website in 2012 or 2013 and got rid of those old pictures in favour of a youtube video, since the video has been taken down that's harder to find because I don't think interweb videos are archived.
2014/11/05 23:30:07
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
inquisitorlewis wrote: BTP hiding their level explanation is more than enough to show they are hiding/covering up as best they can.
This is important. Actions speak louder than words. You can't say "I am innocent." and then turn right around and start hiding/burning evidence. That a lone should be enough to convict BTP on its guilt.
2014/11/05 23:30:34
Subject: Re:My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
This is a guide for painting figures, to keep quality within a range of quality (not too low nor too high). This is only a guide. The Art Director’s judgment can lean in either direction, but not jump from one Level to another.
Some models are more complex than others by virtue of how they are sculpted. This is primarily why there is a range of price inside each level.
Models that are larger will pay more because of the amount of area that needs to be painted. However, they must still meet the same definitions according to their level.
When the Art Director critiques a group of ten or more models of Level 3 or less, the models are considered as a group with only a few pulled out as representative of the group. Level 4 and higher models are all given 360 degree consideration of every model.
Rating 1-9 Client pays for Infantry
Level 2- Tabletop $2.50-$3.00
Paint applied to whole model
Two levels of shading
Standard base
Looks good at 36” away (across the table the unit as a whole has a good appearance)
No eyes
Level 3- Wargamer $5.00-$7.50
Three levels of shading (see below for explanation)
Standard base
Looks good at 18” away (on your side of the table the models have an attractive appearance, you might note some minor errors on close inspection, but not the kind of examination the models will typically get during a game)
Zero or one form of embellishment
Basic Eyes
This is the recommended level for models for large-scale wargames (eg Warhammer).
Level 4- Elite $8.00-12.00
Four levels of shading (see below for explanation)
Standard base
Looks good at 9” away (any closer and your eyes couldn’t focus properly, errors if any are very minor and only evident if the model is photographed and blown up to six inches tall)
Clean Eyes
Two or Three of the following:
Embellished or Decorative Base
Embellishment
Detailed Embellishment (counts as two)
This is the recommended level for models for small-scale skirmish games (eg Confrontation, War Machine, Mordheim, Rezolution).
Level 5- Champion $13-20
Five levels of shading (see below for explanation)
Decorative base standard
Looks good at 9” away (any closer and your eyes couldn’t focus properly, the model is embellished and detailed more—something to look at for a minute)
Detailed Eyes
Three or Four of the following:
Embellished or Decorative Base
Embellishment
Detailed Embellishment (counts as two, for example: highlighted runework, dual layer weathering)
This is the recommended level for Hero models for large-scale wargames (eg Warhammer).
Level 6- Hero $22-35
Six levels of shading (see below for explanation)
Decorated Standard base
Looks good at 9” away (any closer and your eyes couldn’t focus properly, colors are bright and details are clean, the model is embellished and detailed—something to look at for a few minutes)
Detailed Eyes and Face
Four or Five of the following:
Embellished Base (for example: added foliage, bloodstains, runes on rocks)
Embellishment
Detailed Embellishment (counts as two)
This is the recommended level for single Hero models for small-scale skirmish games (eg Confrontation, War Machine, Mordheim, Rezolution).
Blue Table does not currently offer painting services above Level 6. However, here is a reasonable price range for work of higher levels.
Level 7- Display Quality $50-150
Level 8- Award-Winning $200-450
Level 9- Divine $500-1500
Levels Shading
Shading has reference to the blending of one color into another to create the illusion of depth. The smoothness and distinctness of the transitions is the key here. In this case it can also refer to other elements added to enhance the appearance or feel of the model. Most, if not the entire model should meet the requirements for shading even if different parts qualify for different reasons.
Traditionally, shading is achieved with layering, drybrushing or blending. And these techniques can be used to qualify for a layer of shading according to this guide. However Drybrushing can only ever count as one level of shading.
A well-applied single or dual layer of glaze can count as two or three layers of shading
1) a deep, almost black layer.
2) a mid-range layer.
3) and a lighter layer at the highest points.
To achieve further levels of shading, or the equivalent to meet the standards of this guide, you can:
Deepen the recesses
Highlight the high areas
Provide differentiation of tone or color between areas
Undercoat with a solid layer of paint
An embellishing layer (eg rust, slime, polished areas)
Differentiation of color or contrast (eg picking out belts, rivets)
Blackscale on top of a deeper layer (counted as one or two layers)
Standard Base (Included in cost of painting)
Typically two features, eg gravel and grass. We have a menu of bases to choose from.
Specialty Base ($1.50 per base)
These are bases with more complicated composition, most often taking up the entire top of the base with green-stuff work, corking, multiple levels, etc.
Decorative Base ($0.75 per base)
A Standard or Specialty base can have a decoration added. Decoration types appropriate for a base are listed in the Standard Bases album.
If there is no feature included during assembly, the painter should create one (this can be something non-integral, like a pool of blood, or a bush which can be added after priming and painting)
Dioramic Base
Generally can only be done for large models, includes features that tell a story, up to and including one simple additional figure. These are quoted individually and usually cost $10-50.
Embellishments
An embellishment is a detail that does not exist on the model, but is added by the hand of the artist.
• War paint
• Tribal markings or Tattoos
• Embroidery (on a cloak, for example)
• Runework (on clothing, weapons, sheathes, quivers, etc.)
• Patterns (on clothing, weapons, sheathes, etc. could be dags, spirals, squares, arabesques, or the like)
• Weathering (dust on robes, rust, pock marks, dribbling slime)
Detailed Embellishment (same as above but with more detail)
There will be occasions where a model does not lend itself to embellishments, the existing figure’s detail presents opportunities for detail and depth.
Eyes and Face
Basic Eyes (white with black iris)
Clean Eyes (edge, white with black iris)
Detailed Eyes (edge, white with black iris and eyebrows)
Detailed Face (same as above but with lips)
Levels and Assembly
For models assembled en masse for Level 2 or 3 painting there is some margin for error on parts of the model. For example, If there is a mould line on the underside of a leg here and there, that is all right.
I have half a mind to kill you, and the other half agrees
2014/11/05 23:41:03
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
M0ff3l wrote: I will just leave this here. In my opinion it cleary says, WITHOUT FURTHER INPUT, PAINTERS DONT HAVE ACCES TO COMPANY MAIL and NOTHING FROM EMAILS OR PHONE CALLS WILL MAKE ITTO THE ARTIST.
I mean if I was the OP i would have cancelled right there i guess.
Or, ya know, the OP could have asked if he could be in communication with the artist and BTP said yes and the OP foolishly believed that they'd actually do what they said they'd do
From a quality perspective, I think it might be difficult for the OP to prove to a judge that he paid for a level 4 to 6 and got a level 2 to 3... one thing that looks very easy to prove is BTP is in the wrong as far as lack of communication, not doing what the original contract outlined and taking longer than the agreed upon time.
2014/11/05 23:59:18
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
Gotta say I'm in agreement with Winterdyne here in regards to asking the customer to put absolutely everything they want into one document upfront and then the artist using their own initiative from that point onward, the army grows and takes shape as the models are done, if a client cant see how something has developed, if the blue is "that shade" they had in their mindset etc then they are likely going to end up with something very different to what they had in their mind to start with. For a professional studio to say that nothing in emails or calls will make it to the artist just seems overtly extreme, the client is investing an ungodly amount of money in their miniatures and the task of getting them painted, at that rate if they have desire for updates or input on what is their project they should be able to.
Soon his foes would learn that the only thing more dangerous than a savage three hundred pound brute is a savage three hundred pound brute with a plan - Ork Codex
I've recently started taking on commissions, if you'd like to talk a project over feel free to PM me here, or find me at:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BasiliskStudios Email: Basilisk.Studios@yahoo.co.uk
2014/11/06 00:04:34
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
Melcavuk wrote: Gotta say I'm in agreement with Winterdyne here in regards to asking the customer to put absolutely everything they want into one document upfront and then the artist using their own initiative from that point onward, the army grows and takes shape as the models are done, if a client cant see how something has developed, if the blue is "that shade" they had in their mindset etc then they are likely going to end up with something very different to what they had in their mind to start with. For a professional studio to say that nothing in emails or calls will make it to the artist just seems overtly extreme, the client is investing an ungodly amount of money in their miniatures and the task of getting them painted, at that rate if they have desire for updates or input on what is their project they should be able to.
Yeah, I think it's a given that the artist SHOULD be communicating with the client regardless of whether the client requested communication. It's insane that even when the client asked for communication AND was assured of communication that the communication still did not happen. That is just mind boggling.
2014/11/06 00:20:17
Subject: Re:My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
Tyron wrote: I've also watched your video and the situation is very dire and is a reminder of how some take advantage of this community.
I have been following this thread on and off but I didn't see any information on what you used for storage of your army.
Tenebre, if you need any assistance for storing your Chaos Dwarf army. I'd be more than happy to send you enough cases and foam so you can transport your army to a reputable painting service if you decide, or just need some storage solutions anyway. All for free of course.
Send me a PM if you're interested.
filbert wrote: Hopefully next time someone complains that Dakka is a seething hotbed of negativity, whining and moaning, they can be pointed at this thread and others like itand be reminded that actually most people in the community are good spirited and big hearted willing to give a leg up to those who find themselves in misfortune.
tenebre wrote: Another studio has offered to get the army up to the standard I requested for gratis. Not an entire repaint but that would be ridiculous for anyone to undertake without pay. I will be posting a video on this entire process step by step with before and after shots. Should start next week or the week after with weekly updates.
I would love to review any painting studios work since I really do not like doing negative videos about the hobby I love. So I truly hope that all future videos will have a happy feeling to them.
I truly feel that anyone YWPA, winterdyne etc that would offer such a thing truly and deeply believes in their work.
I was looking on this thread closely and I can't take this anymore.
Cause I'm feeling bad to see how much did you spend on this army and how many nerves it costs to you i have an option for u.
You can choose any character or unit from your army. I'll paint them for free on high tt+ standard with unit and showcase standard on character.
We're one big family as painters/gamers. If we'll start doing mess around us there's no option to have normal relationship between us (painters) and you (gamers).
That's why it will be fully voluntary. Don't loose your faith on painting services. There's a lot of normal people around the world doing their stuff great.
On my site you can look on painted minis. Pm me or mail me for details. Only cost you'll have to pay is pp.
Stay strong mate! Don't give up.
Daniel YWPA head manager
You glorious bastards, (including winterdyne and melkor, and all others who have offered free painting/services,) have exalts!
Stormwall wrote: I kinda love this thread. Not the fact that it could turn into a lynch mob or, what happened to Ten but, I like how the community can come together to serve justice. Reminds me of a domino effect.
What justice has been served?
OP still has an army he's not happy with, and is now going to need to retain an attorney to try and get some sort of settlement - and while I understand the effort, I am quite dubious of the outcome. It's going to be pretty hard for a layperson to get the distinctions that we take for granted. Have you guys served on a jury before?
BTP has a black eye, but the internets will move on and forget. Maybe his shaky business practices will bring him down, but maybe not. I doubt this will have any really lasting effect.
All of the yelling in this thread and self-congratulatory masturbation has accomplished what every single thread complaining about GW accomplished, essentially: nothing whatsoever.
I wish OP the best of luck. I would probably eat my losses and take the offer in this thread for a repaint from YWPA (nice offer, btw!)
None as of yet. I said I love how the community /can/ come together to serve justice. Not that it has. Forgive me, I mean no disrespect but, as of this point it seems Ten is getting a lot of offers and love from the community, and he is pursuing legal action. A lot of potential customers have been alerted to BTP's illegal shenanigans, which is a victory in itself, and awareness has been made to a degree. Also, even though at the end of the day it's Ten's choice to choose legal action, the community has banded together to assist him in anyway possible, and remained polite the entire time.
Perhaps you took me wrong or I misconceived my point as I've been smashed by doctor's appointments and other business I have so I type things in a rush now aside from my P+M blog, I apologize for any misunderstanding but, some good things have been accomplished.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/06 02:52:50
Sorry, their definition of high end tabletop / cabinet / display / competition quality is really... well. Awful. They just can't seem to do it.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong; but given that they couldn't even pull out any stops for a high-profile release (Robotech) I don't really think they can hit the quality.
This.
It was dreadful.
I think the best I've seen from BTP's "HD" cameras and stills would maybe rate low on the Polish scale of things (who I might add seem to pump out project after project to amazing standards).
2014/11/06 01:40:29
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
OP still has an army he's not happy with, and is now going to need to retain an attorney to try and get some sort of settlement - and while I understand the effort, I am quite dubious of the outcome. It's going to be pretty hard for a layperson to get the distinctions that we take for granted. Have you guys served on a jury before?
BTP has a black eye, but the internets will move on and forget. Maybe his shaky business practices will bring him down, but maybe not. I doubt this will have any really lasting effect.
All of the yelling in this thread and self-congratulatory masturbation has accomplished what every single thread complaining about GW accomplished, essentially: nothing whatsoever.
I wish OP the best of luck. I would probably eat my losses and take the offer in this thread for a repaint from YWPA (nice offer, btw!)
Is it common for contract disputes before a small claims court to have a jury? I was under the impression that they were typically heard before a judge
2014/11/06 01:46:44
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
Is it common for contract disputes before a small claims court to have a jury? I was under the impression that they were typically heard before a judge
BewareOfTom wrote: well I did some small searching and I found their old picture guide for level samples (from 2012, but pictures are from 2007 I guess)
I had a browes through those level 6 examples and I didn't see one I would consider anything more than 'slightly better tabletop'. I wouldn't even call them 'good' tabletop, just slightly above average.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
2014/11/06 01:55:52
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
BewareOfTom wrote: well I did some small searching and I found their old picture guide for level samples (from 2012, but pictures are from 2007 I guess)
I had a browes through those level 6 examples and I didn't see one I would consider anything more than 'slightly better tabletop'. I wouldn't even call them 'good' tabletop, just slightly above average.
Is it common for contract disputes before a small claims court to have a jury? I was under the impression that they were typically heard before a judge
BewareOfTom wrote: well I did some small searching and I found their old picture guide for level samples (from 2012, but pictures are from 2007 I guess)
I had a browes through those level 6 examples and I didn't see one I would consider anything more than 'slightly better tabletop'. I wouldn't even call them 'good' tabletop, just slightly above average.
That level six deathwing terminator though..
Wait that was a Deathwing? I genuinely thought it was a homebrew chapter that used white armour.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
2014/11/06 02:07:34
Subject: My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves
BewareOfTom wrote: well I did some small searching and I found their old picture guide for level samples (from 2012, but pictures are from 2007 I guess)
I had a browes through those level 6 examples and I didn't see one I would consider anything more than 'slightly better tabletop'. I wouldn't even call them 'good' tabletop, just slightly above average.
That level six deathwing terminator though..
Wait that was a Deathwing? I genuinely thought it was a homebrew chapter that used white armour.
Yeah thats what I thought til I looked at the title. Also the IG sarge is pretty bad too no shading on the body at all
Black Templars 4000 
Deathwatch 6000
