My Blue Table Painting Experience with Chaos Dwarves

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**Gullinbursti**

Yeah, that's my assumption. The original client probably sent a bunch of Ariadna material including the Dire Foes pack, sadly the guy probably assumed they would know Yuriko wasn't an Ariadna model since they're partners with CB. I'd love to see the poor guys face when he got that model (also I'd commiserate, poor Yuriko doesn't deserve that).

I don't know the story behind it, as I say, it might have been the actual request, but it still struck me as funny.

**heartserenade**

In any case, those are extremely bad pixelated photos. And the quality of the paintjob is not something a studio should be proud of displaying.

**carmachu**

Grey Templar wrote:
I would recommend that tenebre no longer discusses anything pertaining to the legal case. We don't want to ruin anything.

This. If you have a lawyer, stop talking in this thread. Unless the lawyer tells you can.

**Gullinbursti**

heartserenade wrote:
In any case, those are extremely bad pixelated photos. And the quality of the paintjob is not something a studio should be proud of displaying.

I believe that describes their flickr quite accurately from what I saw

**M0ff3l**

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Seems pretty clear cut to me. M0ff3l are you satisfied? And of most interest to me - are you getting concerns about your own BTP commission?

Yeah thank you for posting that email. This will be my last post in this thread as every reaction of mine gets flamed into oblivion anyways, so I'm going to make some things clear.

First of all, no I'm not a BTP fanboy, I chose them as my commision service because they have been around for 8 years. They do about 10-15 commisions every month, which most of these "super awesome polish guys" do what, in a year? 2 years? There have been so many good looking btp projects on their website and on their youtube channel, that for me this was the commission service that had the heighest chance to satisfy me. By the way, I send my commission AFTER this "dilema". These slip ups happen, especially if you do that many comissions.

Also since the OP wont post his master instructions, I have no clue if this could have been prevented on my end. Mine has super detailed instructions on how every unit should be painted, I feel like if the OP had this (which no one can know if he had, since he wont post it.) then this might not have happened. If he wanted constant contact with the studio during the project, and BTP doesnt do that, how could his comission end up at BTP? That would be my very first question after I asked for a quote.

To me this is just a big hate bandwagon thread that wont go anywhere. More than half of the people posting here were probably never gonna use a commission service/BTP anyways. So they are just here to add fuel to the fire.

Also no I dont believe you would make this up for whatever reason. But everyone just believing you instantly is sad. I could just make an alt acc, post a gakky painted army and then say that BTP made it, they didnt do any of my instructions and when i asked them to uplaod it to their youtube they said no. Everyone from this thread would just jump over there and continue the hate, without even thinking, hey is this really true?

And thats whats so silly to me, I get called a troll etc. But you are all just flaming BTP and then flaming me for wanting to find out how this could have been prevented. And everyone is gonna respond, it could have been prevented by picking a better comission service, or it could have been prevented if they had actually corrosponded with the OP. Because you all blame BTP for everything. If the OP had written a 10 page long description of his entire army how he invisioned it (which might be a lot of effort, but its sure as hell better than going trough this trouble). I'm sure he would have received an army he liked.

I have been flamed enough in this thread for defending my opinion, especially by people whose only posts in this thread are just hate towards BTP. Im sorry if this is the hate bandwagon I thought we were on dakka discussions, discussing this matter. But appearently in America discussions are one sided hate threads and anyone who doesnt hate gets flamed.

Also the way the OP responded to me makes me dislike him even more. Oh man what a bother to copy paste 2 emails. JEEEEZ that took you what? less than 5 minutes? Telling people to go watch your almost 50 minute long video, to hear you read the "proof" is not proof of what actually happened. Obviously I am the only one defending this opinion.

Oh and one more thing, how, in any way, does BTP have to pay you 60% as a compensation to fix your army ACCORDING TO A DIFFERNT COMPANY? That makes NO sense to me. Thats like going to a cheapo restaurant for a meal and then wanting them to refund you, but at the price of a 5 star restaurant meal.

I think that this whole thing could have been avoided if the OP had just written out his instructions (which is what BTP asks you to do), or had communicated more before the project asking about if he could keep constant contact with the artists etc. That email he showed was AFTER he had given them the instructions, which happens AFTER you pay the 65% deposit. So he never asked if he could do that BEFORE paying. Then to us he says yeah if i had known that i would have never used them. WELL THEN ASK IT BEFORE YOU PAY THEM.

Choose more appropriate, less incendiary language, motyak

**Lt. Coldfire**

M0ff3l, you should watch the videos for one. But really, all you need to know is he asked for blood and gore equal to that of a Saw movie and instead got a lava OSL effect. Talk about being WAY off. That right there is a deal breaker alone.

**M0ff3l**

Lt. Coldfire wrote:
M0ff3l, you should watch the videos for one. But really, all you need to know is he asked for blood and gore equal to that of a Saw movie and instead got a lava OSL effect. Talk about being WAY off. That right there is a deal breaker alone.

Did he ask for that saw gore in his master instructions? Do you know? Did you read them? NO HE TOLD YOU THAT HE WANTED THAT. There is no proof he actually wrote that to BTP. Also I watched the videos, but asking for something in a video =/= proof he actually requested that to BTP.

**Eldarain**

M0ff3l wrote:
Lt. Coldfire wrote:
M0ff3l, you should watch the videos for one. But really, all you need to know is he asked for blood and gore equal to that of a Saw movie and instead got a lava OSL effect. Talk about being WAY off. That right there is a deal breaker alone.

Did he ask for that saw gore in his master instructions? Do you know? Did you read them? NO HE TOLD YOU THAT HE WANTED THAT. There is no proof he actually wrote that to BTP. Also I watched the videos, but asking for something in a video =/= proof he actually requested that to BTP.

The fact that Shawn refutes none of these claims makes it pretty clear. But keep on being an apologist and trying to muddle the issues in play.

**Noir**

M0ff3l wrote:
Lt. Coldfire wrote:
M0ff3l, you should watch the videos for one. But really, all you need to know is he asked for blood and gore equal to that of a Saw movie and instead got a lava OSL effect. Talk about being WAY off. That right there is a deal breaker alone.

Did he ask for that saw gore in his master instructions? Do you know? Did you read them? NO HE TOLD YOU THAT HE WANTED THAT. There is no proof he actually wrote that to BTP. Also I watched the videos, but asking for something in a video =/= proof he actually requested that to BTP.

I hope you do use BTP, as you don't see a problem, go for it.

**BrookM**

Well Moffel, all I can say is, it will be interesting to see the final result in a year or so, who knows? Maybe they can keep to a contract!

So, how much are you pumping into this for just the painting? What level are you going for? And how much on top of all that just for the shipping?

**Gullinbursti**

You know, denigrating the OP in the way you do, while accusing others of flaming is the reason why people here have been labeling you a BTP fanboy. According to you, watching the review is too much work, but then you attack him for not bothering to copy paste material for you to peruse. So, your time is automatically more important than his? Also, when comparing the OP's desire for a refund, of 60%, to going to a cheap restaurant and then wanting BTP to pay for a five star restaurant, I find it quite humorous. Not only do you compare BTP to a cheap and tacky restaurant with food far below a five star restaurant's, you simultaneously manage to ignore the fact that asking for a 60% refund for a "five star" painting service to fix his paint. This means that you automatically assume that BTP charges at least 40% more than a five star restaurant, but are still only a tacky cheap place.

**M0ff3l**

BrookM wrote:
Well Moffel, all I can say is, it will be interesting to see the final result in a year or so, who knows? Maybe they can keep to a contract!

So, how much are you pumping into this for just the painting? What level are you going for? And how much on top of all that just for the shipping?

The shipping to EU is actually only 25$. For the entire project in a level 3-5 split I paid 803$ (that is including shipping). Which to me is worth it, as I have little time to paint myself and feel like their level 2 would outdo my best painted models easily.

Oh and within that 800$ is some freehand and conversion budget as I needed them to do some minor conversions that I didnt have the parts for. + freehand is always cool.

**Medium of Death**

Right enough of you in this thread I think.

Moving on... did anybody watch the live stream? Anything interesting? Did they have the chat disabled?

**rigeld2**

M0ff3l wrote:
Lt. Coldfire wrote:
M0ff3l, you should watch the videos for one. But really, all you need to know is he asked for blood and gore equal to that of a Saw movie and instead got a lava OSL effect. Talk about being WAY off. That right there is a deal breaker alone.

Did he ask for that saw gore in his master instructions? Do you know? Did you read them? NO HE TOLD YOU THAT HE WANTED THAT. There is no proof he actually wrote that to BTP. Also I watched the videos, but asking for something in a video =/= proof he actually requested that to BTP.

In the video he mentioned he's reading, verbatim, from the emails he exchanged with BTP, including his instructions.

Seriously, if him reading verbatim from the instructions/emails in the video and a copy/paste from an email into this thread doesn't satisfy you, what will? Good luck on your BTP commission. Please do keep us updated. I hope it goes well for you - international small claims court is likely "exciting" to make happen.

edit: What's the ETA for your delivery by the way? Just curious.
The reason EU commission shops do so few jobs a month is because they take time to do things right. BTP normally just airbrushes things at the last minute to meet a delivery date (so it seems - this isn't the first time).

**Gullinbursti**

M0ff3l wrote:
Lt. Coldfire wrote:
M0ff3l, you should watch the videos for one. But really, all you need to know is he asked for blood and gore equal to that of a Saw movie and instead got a lava OSL effect. Talk about being WAY off. That right there is a deal breaker alone.

Did he ask for that saw gore in his master instructions? Do you know? Did you read them? NO HE TOLD YOU THAT HE WANTED THAT. There is no proof he actually wrote that to BTP. Also I watched the videos, but asking for something in a video =/= proof he actually requested that to BTP.

You know, this means you will literally never be satisfied. The OP says that he asked for "more gore than Saw" in his video. Since, at that point, I believe he was already considering legal recourse (as of making that video), he would be a fool to quote himself if he did not have a clear record of requesting such. Also, the fact that BTP has not repudiated that statement, nor claimed that the list of "QC issues" sent by Shawn is fake, you can accept it as factual at this time. BTP has to be aware of the extremely negative press this has accrued to them, and if they could tear apart the OP's review as falsehoods, they would have by this point. So, the fact Shawn has remained relatively silent on this, and not accused the OP of lying, you can construe this as acceptance of what was said in the review as factual thus far. This, combined with the OSL being used instead of gore is already a breech of contract. Shawn's opinion that it looks good doesn't matter. If I hire a man to paint my house Burgundy and he paints it Turquoise, I have a legitimate case to pursue regarding breech of contractual service.

**Reality-Torrent**

M0ff3l wrote:
DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Seems pretty clear cut to me. M0ff3l are you satisfied? And of most interest to me - are you getting concerns about your own BTP commission?

Yeah thank you for posting that email. This will be my last post in this thread as every reaction of mine gets flamed into oblivion anyways, so I'm going to make some things clear.

First of all, no I'm not a BTP fanboy, I chose them as my commision service because they have been around for 8 years. They do about 10-15 commisions every month, which most of these "super awesome polish guys" do what, in a year? 2 years? There have been so many good looking btp projects on their website and on their youtube channel, that for me this was the commission service that had the heighest chance to satisfy me. By the way, I send my commission AFTER this "dilema". These slip ups happen, especially if you do that many comissions.

Also since the OP wont post his master instructions, I have no clue if this could have been prevented on my end. Mine has super detailed instructions on how every unit should be painted, I feel like if the OP had this (which no one can know if he had, since he wont post it.) then this might not have happened. If he wanted constant contact with the studio during the project, and BTP doesnt do that, how could his comission end up at BTP? That would be my very first question after I asked for a quote.

To me this is just a big hate bandwagon thread that wont go anywhere. More than half of the people posting here were probably never gonna use a commission service/BTP anyways. So they are just here to add fuel to the fire.

Also no I dont believe you would make this up for whatever reason. But everyone just believing you instantly is sad. I could just make an alt acc, post a gakky painted army and then say that BTP made it, they didnt do any of my instructions and when i asked them to uplaod it to their youtube they said no. Everyone from this thread would just jump over there and continue the hate, without even thinking, hey is this really true?

And thats whats so silly to me, I get called a troll etc. But you are all just flaming BTP and then flaming me for wanting to find out how this could have been prevented. And everyone is gonna respond, it could have been prevented by picking a better comission service, or it could have been prevented if they had actually corrosponded with the OP. Because you all blame BTP for everything. If the OP had written a 10 page long description of his entire army how he invisioned it (which might be a lot of effort, but its sure as hell better than going trough this trouble). I'm sure he would have received an army he liked.

I have been flamed enough in this thread for defending my opinion, especially by people whose only posts in this thread are just hate towards BTP. Im sorry if this is the hate bandwagon I thought we were on dakka discussions, discussing this matter. But appearently in America discussions are one sided hate threads and anyone who doesnt hate gets flamed.

Also the way the OP responded to me makes me dislike him even more. Oh man what a bother to copy paste 2 emails. JEEEEZ that took you what? less than 5 minutes? Telling people to go watch your almost 50 minute long video, to hear you read the "proof" is not proof of what actually happened. Obviously I am the only one defending this opinion.

Oh and one more thing, how, in any way, does BTP have to pay you 60% as a compensation to fix your army ACCORDING TO A DIFFERNT COMPANY? That makes NO sense to me. Thats like going to a cheapo restaurant for a meal and then wanting them to refund you, but at the price of a 5 star restaurant meal.

I think that this whole thing could have been avoided if the OP had just written out his instructions (which is what BTP asks you to do), or had communicated more before the project asking about if he could keep constant contact with the artists etc. That email he showed was AFTER he had given them the instructions, which happens AFTER you pay the 65% deposit. So he never asked if he could do that BEFORE paying. Then to us he says yeah if i had known that i would have never used them. WELL THEN ASK IT BEFORE YOU PAY THEM.

Have fun flaming,

Yes, you are a BTP fanboy, you have made that very clear. You are even likely Shawn or an employee of BTP. The way you talk makes it very clear you work for BTP. You are also very very bias, even though you have no proof of how many of BTP projects work out well.

You claim that had the OP posted proper master instructions BTP would had magicaly sprung forth good painters and time and effort into making the OPs army into what they were contracte to do. Yet you have no idea what his master instructions were or how detailed they were, beacuse you have not seen them. You blindly judge the OP with no evidence.

What a bs example. Go to a cheap returant and then want a refund at a 5 star resutrant? What? BTP is super expensive, by any standards, everyone knows that. In other words, the OP went to a super expensive resutrant, got served frozen meatballs, 10 hours after arriving and then asking for a discount equal to a macdonalds meal.

And he DID ask them, if you had bothered watching the video, he did ask them and they said it would be no problem.

**M0ff3l**

rigeld2 wrote:
M0ff3l wrote:
Lt. Coldfire wrote:
M0ff3l, you should watch the videos for one. But really, all you need to know is he asked for blood and gore equal to that of a Saw movie and instead got a lava OSL effect. Talk about being WAY off. That right there is a deal breaker alone.

Did he ask for that saw gore in his master instructions? Do you know? Did you read them? NO HE TOLD YOU THAT HE WANTED THAT. There is no proof he actually wrote that to BTP. Also I watched the videos, but asking for something in a video =/= proof he actually requested that to BTP.

In the video he mentioned he's reading, verbatim, from the emails he exchanged with BTP, including his instructions.

Seriously, if him reading verbatim from the instructions/emails in the video and a copy/paste from an email into this thread doesn't satisfy you, what will? Good luck on your BTP commission. Please do keep us updated. I hope it goes well for you - international small claims court is likely "exciting" to make happen.

edit: What's the ETA for your delivery by the way? Just curious.
The reason EU commission shops do so few jobs a month is because they take time to do things right. BTP normally just airbrushes things at the last minute to meet a delivery date (so it seems - this isn't the first time).

I have not had an ETA yet, as I just send my army out yesterday. Im sure I will hear from them once it arrives and will be sure to keep you updated. I have already decided that once I get the army back I will post pictures + my master instructions so everyone can decide if BTP kept their end of the bargain and followed my instructions.

Also @Medium of Death: Excuse me? What gives you the right to tell people when to stop posting in a thread? I think that is for the mods to decide thank you.

EDIT @: reality-torment: I can assure you 100% that I dont work for BTP, and have never worked with BTP before. Also if you read the email on the previous page, and my post you quoted, that mail was AFTER he had paid. So no we dont know if he really asked that before he commissioned the project. But Im the only one here who really cares about proof anyways so. Also to me, you are the one making a fool out of yourself claiming im some kind of undercover BTP employee lol.

**Reality-Torrent**

M0ff3l wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
M0ff3l wrote:
Lt. Coldfire wrote:
M0ff3l, you should watch the videos for one. But really, all you need to know is he asked for blood and gore equal to that of a Saw movie and instead got a lava OSL effect. Talk about being WAY off. That right there is a deal breaker alone.

Did he ask for that saw gore in his master instructions? Do you know? Did you read them? NO HE TOLD YOU THAT HE WANTED THAT. There is no proof he actually wrote that to BTP. Also I watched the videos, but asking for something in a video =/= proof he actually requested that to BTP.

In the video he mentioned he's reading, verbatim, from the emails he exchanged with BTP, including his instructions.

Seriously, if him reading verbatim from the instructions/emails in the video and a copy/paste from an email into this thread doesn't satisfy you, what will? Good luck on your BTP commission. Please do keep us updated. I hope it goes well for you - international small claims court is likely "exciting" to make happen.

edit: What's the ETA for your delivery by the way? Just curious.
The reason EU commission shops do so few jobs a month is because they take time to do things right. BTP normally just airbrushes things at the last minute to meet a delivery date (so it seems - this isn't the first time).

I have not had an ETA yet, as I just send my army out yesterday. Im sure I will hear from them once it arrives and will be sure to keep you updated. I have already decided that once I get the army back I will post pictures + my master instructions so everyone can decide if BTP kept their end of the bargain and followed my instructions.

Also @Medium of Death: Excuse me? What gives you the right to tell people when to stop posting in a thread? I think that is for the mods to decide thank you.

EDIT @: reality-torment: I can assure you 100% that I dont work for BTP, and have never worked with BTP before. Also if you read the email on the previous page, and my post you quoted, that mail was AFTER he had paid. So no we dont know if he really asked that before he commissioned the project. But Im the only one here who really cares about proof anyways so.

What is this gak anyway? I thought you already had made your last post, you made such a fuss over it. Now you keep spamming nonsense. More lies?

**Gullinbursti**

M0ff3l wrote:
This will be my last post in this thread as every reaction of mine gets flamed into oblivion anyways, so I'm going to make some things clear.

I believe he was replying to this in hopes you would be true to your word.

**M0ff3l**

Gullinbursti wrote:
M0ff3l wrote:
This will be my last post in this thread as every reaction of mine gets flamed into oblivion anyways, so I'm going to make some things clear.

I believe he was replying to this in hopes you would be true to your word.

Yes my apologies,
Don't provoke people by using incendiary language please, motyak

**Krungle**

M0ff3l wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
M0ff3l wrote:
Lt. Coldfire wrote:
M0ff3l, you should watch the videos for one. But really, all you need to know is he asked for blood and gore equal to that of a Saw movie and instead got a lava OSL effect. Talk about being WAY off. That right there is a deal breaker alone.

Did he ask for that saw gore in his master instructions? Do you know? Did you read them? NO HE TOLD YOU THAT HE WANTED THAT. There is no proof he actually wrote that to BTP. Also I watched the videos, but asking for something in a video =/= proof he actually requested that to BTP.

In the video he mentioned he's reading, verbatim, from the emails he exchanged with BTP, including his instructions.

Seriously, if him reading verbatim from the instructions/emails in the video and a copy/paste from an email into this thread doesn't satisfy you, what will? Good luck on your BTP commission. Please do keep us updated. I hope it goes well for you - international small claims court is likely "exciting" to make happen.

edit: What's the ETA for your delivery by the way? Just curious.
The reason EU commission shops do so few jobs a month is because they take time to do things right. BTP normally just airbrushes things at the last minute to meet a delivery date (so it seems - this isn't the first time).

I have not had an ETA yet, as I just send my army out yesterday. Im sure I will hear from them once it arrives and will be sure to keep you updated. I have already decided that once I get the army back I will post pictures + my master instructions so everyone can decide if BTP kept their end of the bargain and followed my instructions.

Also @Medium of Death: Excuse me? What gives you the right to tell people when to stop posting in a thread? I think that is for the mods to decide thank you.

EDIT @: reality-torment: I can assure you 100% that I dont work for BTP, and have never worked with BTP before. Also if you read the email on the previous page, and my post you quoted, that mail was AFTER he had paid. So no we dont know if he really asked that before he commissioned the project. But Im the only one here who really cares about proof anyways so.

I'm confused. What does posting your army completed and followed to the T prove? After watching all this unfold, I'm pretty sure BTP is out there lurking in threads/youtube posts and monitoring the situation. I think someone said it, they will most likely do an excellent job on your project. But that doesn't discount Tenebre's situation. BTP clearly shafted him, I don't believe anyone is trying to say BTP has never put out good work. The problem is that the company has let a very high price client down, and not even taken responsibility for their actions, instead BTP has argued that his disappointment with his army is speculation. Once you break someone's trust, in this situation the gaming community and Tenebre, it is not easily won back, if at all. If BTP had really wanted to rectify the situation they would have paid GMM the money to repaint Tenebre's army. They recieved a large sum of money, not rightfully theirs, and they are trying to hold onto this money instead of returning it to the customer. Tenebre paid for a service, he did not receive the service he paid for.

**rigeld2**

M0ff3l wrote:
I have not had an ETA yet, as I just send my army out yesterday. Im sure I will hear from them once it arrives and will be sure to keep you updated. I have already decided that once I get the army back I will post pictures + my master instructions so everyone can decide if BTP kept their end of the bargain and followed my instructions.

No response on the fact that he was reading verbatim from his instruction sheet? That's cool - you don't have to admit you were wrong.

EDIT @: reality-torment: I can assure you 100% that I dont work for BTP, and have never worked with BTP before. Also if you read the email on the previous page, and my post you quoted, that mail was AFTER he had paid. So no we dont know if he really asked that before he commissioned the project. But Im the only one here who really cares about proof anyways so. Also to me, you are the one making a fool out of yourself claiming im some kind of undercover BTP employee lol.

The email from Shawn was in reply to the final instructions. I'm pretty sure (but not 100% sure) that the payment was not sent before the final instructions were.

**ClockworkChaos**

M0ff3l wrote:
DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Seems pretty clear cut to me. M0ff3l are you satisfied? And of most interest to me - are you getting concerns about your own BTP commission?

Yeah thank you for posting that email. This will be my last post in this thread as every reaction of mine gets flamed into oblivion anyways, so I'm going to make some things clear.

First of all, no I'm not a BTP fanboy, I chose them as my commision service because they have been around for 8 years. They do about 10-15 commisions every month, which most of these "super awesome polish guys" do what, in a year? 2 years? There have been so many good looking btp projects on their website and on their youtube channel, that for me this was the commission service that had the heighest chance to satisfy me. By the way, I send my commission AFTER this "dilema". These slip ups happen, especially if you do that many comissions.

Also since the OP wont post his master instructions, I have no clue if this could have been prevented on my end. Mine has super detailed instructions on how every unit should be painted, I feel like if the OP had this (which no one can know if he had, since he wont post it.) then this might not have happened. If he wanted constant contact with the studio during the project, and BTP doesnt do that, how could his comission end up at BTP? That would be my very first question after I asked for a quote.

To me this is just a big hate bandwagon thread that wont go anywhere. More than half of the people posting here were probably never gonna use a commission service/BTP anyways. So they are just here to add fuel to the fire.

Also no I dont believe you would make this up for whatever reason. But everyone just believing you instantly is sad. I could just make an alt acc, post a gakky painted army and then say that BTP made it, they didnt do any of my instructions and when i asked them to uplaod it to their youtube they said no. Everyone from this thread would just jump over there and continue the hate, without even thinking, hey is this really true?

And thats whats so silly to me, I get called a troll etc. But you are all just flaming BTP and then flaming me for wanting to find out how this could have been prevented. And everyone is gonna respond, it could have been prevented by picking a better comission service, or it could have been prevented if they had actually corrosponded with the OP. Because you all blame BTP for everything. If the OP had written a 10 page long description of his entire army how he invisioned it (which might be a lot of effort, but its sure as hell better than going trough this trouble). I'm sure he would have received an army he liked.

I have been flamed enough in this thread for defending my opinion, especially by people whose only posts in this thread are just hate towards BTP. Im sorry if this is the hate bandwagon I thought we were on dakka discussions, discussing this matter. But appearently in America discussions are one sided hate threads and anyone who doesnt hate gets flamed.

Also the way the OP responded to me makes me dislike him even more. Oh man what a bother to copy paste 2 emails. JEEEEZ that took you what? less than 5 minutes? Telling people to go watch your almost 50 minute long video, to hear you read the "proof" is not proof of what actually happened. Obviously I am the only one defending this opinion.

Oh and one more thing, how, in any way, does BTP have to pay you 60% as a compensation to fix your army ACCORDING TO A DIFFERNT COMPANY? That makes NO sense to me. Thats like going to a cheapo restaurant for a meal and then wanting them to refund you, but at the price of a 5 star restaurant meal.

I think that this whole thing could have been avoided if the OP had just written out his instructions (which is what BTP asks you to do), or had communicated more before the project asking about if he could keep constant contact with the artists etc. That email he showed was AFTER he had given them the instructions, which happens AFTER you pay the 65% deposit. So he never asked if he could do that BEFORE paying. Then to us he says yeah if i had known that i would have never used them. WELL THEN ASK IT BEFORE YOU PAY THEM.

Have fun flaming,

I am not responding to you as I hope that was indeed your last post on this thread but instead this comment is to everyone else:

I believe it is fine to question things and want to know if BTP could have done a better job. However trains of thought like this go beyond trolling and into the area of straight up degrading other peoples intelligence and

just generally rude attitude. OP and the community have shown over and over again the proof without releasing info that could hurt a court case. Any reasonable person should at least nod their head and admit they

were wrong. Not doing so and yet attacking others, even without name calling, I believe is wrong and just detrimental to the community and this thread. As much as we don't need dark knights we do not need this white

knight apologists either. For any future posts here, can we as a community please hold ourselves to a higher level of responsibility and please not engage in this? For most that really does not seem to be a problem.

As a side note: besides the exceptions I think this thread has been very supportive and I hope justice is eventually served even if it does take a while.

**M0ff3l**

rigeld2 wrote:
M0ff3l wrote:
I have not had an ETA yet, as I just send my army out yesterday. Im sure I will hear from them once it arrives and will be sure to keep you updated. I have already decided that once I get the army back I will post pictures + my master instructions so everyone can decide if BTP kept their end of the bargain and followed my instructions.

No response on the fact that he was reading verbatim from his instruction sheet? That's cool - you don't have to admit you were wrong.

EDIT @: reality-torment: I can assure you 100% that I dont work for BTP, and have never worked with BTP before. Also if you read the email on the previous page, and my post you quoted, that mail was AFTER he had paid. So no we dont know if he really asked that before he commissioned the project. But Im the only one here who really cares about proof anyways so. Also to me, you are the one making a fool out of yourself claiming im some kind of undercover BTP employee lol.

The email from Shawn was in reply to the final instructions. I'm pretty sure (but not 100% sure) that the payment was not sent before the final instructions were.

Im sorry for breaking my vow, but its hard when people talk to me like this.

First of all: I can hold out a blank paper on youtube and say im reading verbatim from it and then make gak up. Also I can read verbatim and only read the parts that benefactor me. As my long post said Im not saying the OP made his story up, but the lack of proof and the lack of requested proof are very dissapointing to me.

Also have you commissioned from BTP before? Because I send them my instructions just 2 days ago, and that was after I paid my 65% deposit. So I kinda know what im talking about here? They send you this automated email after your 65% deposit, telling you to carefully read it, write any specific things you want in the document and send it back.

**themonk**

If what the OP says about a level six job being applied to the bull centaurs is true (first vid), then that is the deal-breaker right there. BTP didn't even paint the skulls and armor detail on those amazing models.

**AllSeeingSkink**

carmachu wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
I would recommend that tenebre no longer discusses anything pertaining to the legal case. We don't want to ruin anything.

This. If you have a lawyer, stop talking in this thread. Unless the lawyer tells you can.

I agree with this. I think Tenebre should really stop posting until he speaks to a lawyer and the lawyer says it's ok.

I tend to agree with the sentiments of some earlier posters that proving the low quality issue may be problematic. To people who don't spend hours each day staring at miniatures, the difference between a level 2 and a level 6 will take some time to demonstrate and that's assuming BTP having documentation of what the different levels look like, which I believe they've shied away from in the past few years.

What should be easy to prove is that there was a lack of communication, the project went over the time specified in the contract and even when BTP gave updated deadlines those deadlines were again broken and again there was a lack of communication entirely on BTP's part (since Tenebre was TRYING to communicate).

The other thing which will hopefully be easy to prove is that the outcome didn't meet the agreed terms. Though again that might be tricky for people who aren't hobbyists to understand.

**Flippa**

M0ff3l wrote:

Also no I dont believe you would make this up for whatever reason. But everyone just believing you instantly is sad. I could just make an alt acc, post a gakky painted army and then say that BTP made it, they didnt do any of my instructions and when i asked them to uplaod it to their youtube they said no. Everyone from this thread would just jump over there and continue the hate, without even thinking, hey is this really true?

Have fun flaming,

No flames from me, but, Tenebre didn't just make this up, he didn't paint the army, BTP did they even had a video of it online with Shawn spooging over how awesome it was. It clearly wasn't awesome and hey guess what? My 11 year old daughter can do better than the travesty that Tenebre now has. Those models didn't deserve that, Tenebre didn't deserve that and for THAT price his wallet didn't either.

**Karnophage**

Well Moffel I am sure that Shawn is reading this thread. I would think once your commission arrives it will get the highest priority and the best artist he has working on it. If he sends you a well painted army for the price you are paying it will show that what happened with the OP was just a isolated incident and not what BTP does. If the project runs late and is not exactly what you wanted it just proves what a lot of the posters have been saying about BTP. Now lets see some pictures of your army if it comes back hopefully before the end of the year.

**rigeld2**

M0ff3l wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
M0ff3l wrote:
I have not had an ETA yet, as I just send my army out yesterday. Im sure I will hear from them once it arrives and will be sure to keep you updated. I have already decided that once I get the army back I will post pictures + my master instructions so everyone can decide if BTP kept their end of the bargain and followed my instructions.

No response on the fact that he was reading verbatim from his instruction sheet? That's cool - you don't have to admit you were wrong.

EDIT @: reality-torment: I can assure you 100% that I dont work for BTP, and have never worked with BTP before. Also if you read the email on the previous page, and my post you quoted, that mail was AFTER he had paid. So no we dont know if he really asked that before he commissioned the project. But Im the only one here who really cares about proof anyways so. Also to me, you are the one making a fool out of yourself claiming im some kind of undercover BTP employee lol.

The email from Shawn was in reply to the final instructions. I'm pretty sure (but not 100% sure) that the payment was not sent before the final instructions were.

Im sorry for breaking my vow, but its hard when people talk to me like this.

First of all: I can hold out a blank paper on youtube and say im reading verbatim from it and then make gak up. Also I can read verbatim and only read the parts that benefactor me. As my long post said Im not saying the OP made his story up, but the lack of proof and the lack of requested proof are very dissapointing to me.

So then there's literally no proof that could convince you. After all, he might just be typing stuff into dakka rather than copy/pasting from an email!
When Shawn and BTP don't attempt to contradict or correct anything he's said, and doing so would distinctly help their case, why do you doubt anything the OP has said?

Also have you commissioned from BTP before? Because I send them my instructions just 2 days ago, and that was after I paid my 65% deposit. So I kinda know what im talking about here? They send you this automated email telling you to carefully read it, write any specific things you want in the document and send it back after you paid the first deposit.

As I said, I wasn't 100% sure - but you actually get an automated email from Shawn's account? And which method of getting your quote did you choose? They offer 3 on their website.
How can they generate a valid quote without knowing what you want? I'm confused on that.

**Flippa**

M0ff3l wrote:

Also have you commissioned from BTP before? Because I send them my instructions just 2 days ago, and that was after I paid my 65% deposit. So I kinda know what im talking about here? They send you this automated email after your 65% deposit, telling you to carefully read it, write any specific things you want in the document and send it back.

And did you follow those instructions from the automated email? And if you did, what makes you think the OP didn't?