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Mattbranb wrote:The stonethrower piece makes sense, as not having to measure and no partials would make them way overpowered if they kept the current Str and no armor saves. Having it Str 9 under the hole works too, as that basically doesn't allow any armor saves anyways.

It makes sense in a balance term, but makes absolutely no sense otherwise. Again, Styrofoam Boulders - make it have spikes or something to explain the S9 for the direct hit. While they are still scary for getting lots of hits, anything with an armor save is now pretty much secure - especially if it combines ward or regens with the armor. For example, Phoenix Guard will only take one wound for every six hit (3 wounds, 1 save, 1 ward). Anything T4 that can manage a 4+ save or better can also ignore 5/6th the hits (6 hits, 2 wounds, 1 save). The extra hits are now necessary to make up for the lack of strength and armor piercing, and the only things that Stone Throwers will remain as effective against are low-armor low-toughness enemies like Gnoblars, Skaven Slaves, Goblins, and Skinks.

On the plus side, this makes Skaven Plague Catapults so much more effective.

Mattbranb wrote:The magic phase has me somewhat worried, as alot of the spells seem really, really good.

Definitely. They have to give it an incentive if they're going to risk a high-strength Mortar being dropped on your wizard's head for a successful casting.

Mattbranb wrote:Still though - sounds interesting and not as bad as everyone was predicting.

Because most of the excessive nay-sayers have already packed shop. Until the new O&G book comes out, my 5-6K points are pretty much sitting on my shelf: The only rules that really helps them are the "More Ranks = Stubborn" (and that Stubborn may be combined with non-Stubborn characters) and the "Ignore panic when close to general" schtick. Every other rule change borders from neutral-bordering-negative to straight-up negative.

Flashman wrote:So Lore of Beasts now lets you turn yourself into Chimeras and Dragons? O... K...

In any game or what not whenever there is a lot of unknown information the rumors tend to get more outlandash the closer to release for some reason...

Well obviously in the new rules theirs going to be a law of necromancy in which you can summon undead dragos on a 3+ Also HE get +7 to all spell rolls in the new errata. XD

ShivanAngel wrote:

Flashman wrote:So Lore of Beasts now lets you turn yourself into Chimeras and Dragons? O... K...

In any game or what not whenever there is a lot of unknown information the rumors tend to get more outlandash the closer to release for some reason...

Indeed. Mayn of those 'updates' are downright ludicrous. A basic spell with a casting value of 10+? I don't think so...

Chimera one is true. Not sure about the dragon.

Also you have to factor in that you add your wizard level. So that basic spell is really an 8+ to a level 2 and a 6+ to a level 4.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:

Flashman wrote:So Lore of Beasts now lets you turn yourself into Chimeras and Dragons? O... K...

In any game or what not whenever there is a lot of unknown information the rumors tend to get more outlandash the closer to release for some reason...

Indeed. Mayn of those 'updates' are downright ludicrous. A basic spell with a casting value of 10+? I don't think so...

Well according to the rumors you add your wizard level...

A level 4 will throw two dice at that and get it off 60 something percent of the time...

ShivanAngel wrote:

Flashman wrote:So Lore of Beasts now lets you turn yourself into Chimeras and Dragons? O... K...

In any game or what not whenever there is a lot of unknown information the rumors tend to get more outlandash the closer to release for some reason...

And yet there is precedence in previous additions, namely 'Transformation of Kadon' which turned the caster into a Manticore, if memory serves.

But once again folks (and I'm sure this is as needless as the first time!) trust nothing until you have the book in your hands!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:

Flashman wrote:So Lore of Beasts now lets you turn yourself into Chimeras and Dragons? O... K...

In any game or what not whenever there is a lot of unknown information the rumors tend to get more outlandash the closer to release for some reason...

And yet there is precedence in previous additions, namely 'Transformation of Kadon' which turned the caster into a Manticore, if memory serves.

But once again folks (and I'm sure this is as needless as the first time!) trust nothing until you have the book in your hands!

Hasnt MDG already seen the book (seem to recall he works for GW).

If so i have a sneaking suspicion he trolls all the rumor threads on all the boards laughing his ass off at some of the rumors and how people are reacting to some of the crazier ones.

Hand on heart, I have not seen the book. At all. I have no idea what it even looks like.

Hence my air of caution about rumours.

Rumour or not, I like the idea of fire causing fear in animals. Neat touch that might sate my desire for fire to do something other than quaterise wounds and incinerate treemen.

Well indeed. Until today (new laptop for the win!) I've struggled to get online, so haven't kept up with the rumours.

But I do look forward to new Fantasy, more so if the changes coming are substantial, without messing with what makes me love the game itself. As long as how I play the game remains the same (roughly) I'll be happy with the challenge presented by a new edition. Some of the rumours I have discounted out of hand, others I feel there might be quite a lot of truth to. For example, the sheer size of the volume (twice as thick as the existing hardback) suggests lots of new things. Take for example the alleged return to percentage organised armies. I cannot help but wonder if this is true, but only for specific scenarios etc, as it goes against the existing grain of not messing with existing army books too much.

The promised Errata and FAQ's for Army Books has however piqued my interest somewhat, and I genuinely look forward to discovering exactly what it is that needs Errata and FAQ. Perhaps just the Lores Of Magic, perhaps it's almost going to be a downloadable army book (please don't read anything into this. I know *nothing* about the possible contents. And I am aware my continued denials suggest I am teasing and indeed do know what I'm on about, but trust me, I don't!)

Could it be.. that kroxigors might actually be useful for the first time ever? Of course the 1 krox in a unit of skinks was their only use, and thats being nerfed by taking away auto-break..

Id love a reason to use a unit of them.. Maybe stomp attacks will do it! Probably not tho

Kirasu wrote:Could it be.. that kroxigors might actually be useful for the first time ever? Of course the 1 krox in a unit of skinks was their only use, and thats being nerfed by taking away auto-break..

Id love a reason to use a unit of them.. Maybe stomp attacks will do it! Probably not tho

Probably not. 4+ save at T4 is decent, but WS3 and striking last still puts them at a disadvantage. They're better off than some units (Iron Guts, for example), but not by much.

They're always at a disadvantage.. maybe there will be a heavens spell that boosts them, we'll see

Now you have even more attacks targeting the skinks building up CR as well as the kroxigors unable to kill the front rank of the unit to protect them. Ranked skinks got much worse.

No they haven't. Until that book is in your hands, nothing has changed. At all.

Stop jumping to conclusions on what might as well be mindless conjecture to this point!

I know you keep saying that you haven't read the book or even seen it but this isn't the case for all GW employees. I don't want to get people in trouble so I'm going to stop there (no one has leaked anything to me personally in case the GW gestapo is reading) but you don't need to act like people are pulling these "rumors" out of nowhere unless your job is to give out books with faulty information to mine for leaks amongst staff or something.

Not trying to sound rude but I think these rules are pretty concrete.

Whereas I don't think they are at all.

The rumours of late haven't been terribly accurate, and whilst undoubtably some have seen the new book, those I have spoken to have been remarkably tight lipped.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not seeking to call anyone a liar, just saying don't trust rumours until you have seen it with your own two eyes. Chinese Whispers and that!

Minsc wrote:

Mattbranb wrote:The stonethrower piece makes sense, as not having to measure and no partials would make them way overpowered if they kept the current Str and no armor saves. Having it Str 9 under the hole works too, as that basically doesn't allow any armor saves anyways.

It makes sense in a balance term, but makes absolutely no sense otherwise. Again, Styrofoam Boulders - make it have spikes or something to explain the S9 for the direct hit. While they are still scary for getting lots of hits, anything with an armor save is now pretty much secure - especially if it combines ward or regens with the armor. For example, Phoenix Guard will only take one wound for every six hit (3 wounds, 1 save, 1 ward). Anything T4 that can manage a 4+ save or better can also ignore 5/6th the hits (6 hits, 2 wounds, 1 save).

One problem with your example. You're assuming only 6 hits. 1/3 of the time, you're going to hit every model in that unit. So, if that's 20 Phoenix Guard, it's 20 hits, not 6. You end up with more casualties simply by weight of dice. So, if you end up killing 3 or 4 Phoenix Guard, that's fine. It's going to be about equal to killing 15 clanrats.

To be fair Ixquic, he might need to give the "Not until it's in your hands" lip service. Some GW's are very serious about having pretty much nothing confirmed - I've had staff members who have held the book and told me "I saw it" still say "Don't believe it until it's in your hands". So, scarily enough, they might very well be releasing fake books to plug in 'leaks'.

Flashman wrote:Rumour or not, I like the idea of fire causing fear in animals. Neat touch that might sate my desire for fire to do something other than quaterise wounds and incinerate treemen.

Cauterize*

--------------------

None of these rumors except probably %'s are concrete Ixquic, thinking otherwise is false.

Flashman wrote:So Lore of Beasts now lets you turn yourself into Chimeras and Dragons? O... K...

Ya I'm a little worried now. O no my slann got charged o well time to shape shift into a giant dragon a kill the BT. Personally I don't think thats a good idea 7th edition lore of the beast worked fine.

Slann won't be able to do it. Mage has to be on foot

Is the Slann not on foot? I mean, I know the model is not, but as far as the rules go, he isn't considered riding a mount is he?

Kirasu wrote:Could it be.. that kroxigors might actually be useful for the first time ever? Of course the 1 krox in a unit of skinks was their only use, and thats being nerfed by taking away auto-break..

Id love a reason to use a unit of them.. Maybe stomp attacks will do it! Probably not tho

I know several people playing in GT's that made very good use of skink units with 2 or 3 kroxigor in them. Whether they get worse or better is going to be seen after people start playing. I'm very curious to see how the game plays. Many of the new rules add an element to the game that really makes it tougher to mathhammer and make concrete statements.

Skinks are cheap enough that you can buy them extra ranks. Stubborn on 3d6 means they aren't going to run much, and fear could drop their opponent to WS 1, giving the krox a boost in the to hit department.

Umm... what the hell?

Sorry if this has been posted already, but umm... measuring set? Magic cards? Special dice? WTF?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Umm... what the hell?

Sorry if this has been posted already, but umm... measuring set? Magic cards? Special dice? WTF?

I like it. All the cards mean, most likely, is easier spell referencing. All the other stuff just looks cool, too.

One thing I am curious about, and I admit I hadn't delved into the whole thread, is what info has cropped up on the new box-set for the release. I heard it was Skaven vs. High Elves, but do we have more than that? Contents, etc? Cost?

Karon wrote:

Flashman wrote:Rumour or not, I like the idea of fire causing fear in animals. Neat touch that might sate my desire for fire to do something other than quaterise wounds and incinerate treemen.

Cauterize*

Bugger.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Umm... what the hell?

Sorry if this has been posted already, but umm... measuring set? Magic cards? Special dice? WTF?

Posted and discussed here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/297740.page

Of course.

Makes perfect sense to have a separate thread about the same topic.