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I've always thought the Dark Angels were the emo ones.

The Dark Eldar always came off as the fetish ball type to me...

Which, in truth, is why I enjoy them so damn much.

No, that's not hating them - it's merely stating the obvious.

JohnHwangDD wrote:No, that's not hating them - it's merely stating the obvious.

Thank you captain obvious for opening that grave again.

Asmodeus wrote:The Dark Eldar always came off as the fetish ball type to me...

Someone needs to have Bruce Willis and Ving Rhames from Pulp Fiction as captured slaves strapped to a raider.

dietrich wrote:

Asmodeus wrote:The Dark Eldar always came off as the fetish ball type to me...

Someone needs to have Bruce Willis and Ving Rhames from Pulp Fiction as captured slaves strapped to a raider.

LMFAO. That's great. Throw them up on the Dias of Destruction.

dietrich wrote:

Asmodeus wrote:The Dark Eldar always came off as the fetish ball type to me...

Someone needs to have Bruce Willis and Ving Rhames from Pulp Fiction as captured slaves strapped to a raider.

LOL yes, very dark.... elves

John wont be happy til he gets the thread locked hehehe.

BTW John I have followed several of the DE posts as I have a very vested interest in a new book, etc.. and I have noticed that you do tend to show an inflaming hate towards the DE kin. It goes beyond dislike and I was really just curiouse why? Is there something you would like to see them change in the new book or are you just closed minded to the race itself? Not flaming, just curious...

im looking forward to their re-release and with goodwin and kelly on the project (rumored) it looks like GW means business this time around

As a former DE player, I have a lot of annoyance with GW not making up their mind on the DE and stringing people along for years.

After a few years of this kind of rumor nonsense, I now require actual proof, which nobody has been able to provide.

And perhaps, that is the problem that the DE fans have with me. My hopes and enthusiasm has long since faded, but they still hold a candle. I won't believe GW merely saying so, whereas they'll desperately jump on the slightest whisper.

Even this "News" thread is a good example. It's basically yet another retread of *this* which even repeats what's been said before. So really, this isn't "News", and probably should be locked.

But if you have an issue with my posts on DE, it probably behooves you to think about *why* that is the case. Often times, the barb that stings the most is the one that hits closest to the truth.

That is, I believe that the reason people don't like what I say, is because it forces them to consider the reality of the situation that, in all likelihood, their army has actually been Squatted, and like 15 years ago, GW simply hasn't found the courage to say so. Not fun.

Unfortunately, based on GW's past history and all evidence to date, the facts seem to support my interpretation of reality more than the various unsubstantiated rumors that "the DE are coming any day now".


Now, all that said, I look at Codices from a metagame perspective. I don't think DE deserve a Codex, at least, not until my Dogs of War get their WFB Army Book. DoW have been waiting longer than the DE, so talking about years of waiting isn't very persuasive to me when I've waited longer.

And even if I get a DoW Army Book, which is far from certain, would it be "better" (i.e. more profitable) for GW to spend the same effort in redeveloping Dark Eldar as opposed to relaunching LatD with minis support? Or Ad Mech? Or Sisters?

So, presuming that the DE get a new Codex, no, there isn't too much I'd change. The DE army more or less does what it's supposed to do. It's fast & fragile, and it's going to be hard to make DE much faster or more fragile. It still wins just fine, so overall power isn't a huge issue.

The background is actually the biggest problem, aside from the minis still being early 3E. But them being strongly perceived as merely "emo space elves" by nearly all non-DE players doesn't help things at all.

The fact is, DE are a "problem" army that just doesn't mesh well with the 40k gaming universe from a Fluff / background standpoint. I don't know how to fix that, and I suspect that, neither does the GW studio, hence the foot-dragging and nebulous rumors of "working on" with nothing to show for the effort.

Anyhow, a lot of rambling, hope it helps...

Ktulhut wrote:Saw it on BolS:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/

So 40k blogger Lone Pilgrim reported some juicy nuggets a few days ago, but they kind of got lost in the wind. Highlights are:

-The massive Dark Angel Citadel shown in Planetstrike will be available in plastic!

-Phil Kelly is writing Codex: Dark Eldar.

-Necrons are being worked on, but are further out than Dark Eldar.

-The much anticipated Forgeworld Lord of Change is due out near Christmas.

-The next Forgeworld Book AFTER Siege of Vraks: 3 will focus on Orks vs Elysians.

~Standard caveats on these guys. Go read all the rest of the goodies over at Lone Pilgrim. Of course no official work on a Dark Eldar release schedule, but we hear they are not that far after Space Wolves. There are also apparently some little tidbits regarding their background in Planetstrike, such as their worship of Khaine. Hmm...

Let's hope these rumors are true!

This isn't new.

In fact, it isn't even a rumor. We've known about the redux for some time, now.

A real rumor would be that they were actually be getting ready for release, or something.

I've had a DE army since 3d Edition. They sucked them, they will probiblty suck even more , except it will be new suck.
I never liked them. they were just the unfortunate reminents that were left over from getting plastic scenery and multipart Space Marines.


We've been waiting over 5 years for something of substance for the DE, It's high time that GW put up or shut up.

Fishboy wrote:John wont be happy til he gets the thread locked hehehe.

BTW John I have followed several of the DE posts as I have a very vested interest in a new book, etc.. and I have noticed that you do tend to show an inflaming hate towards the DE kin. It goes beyond dislike and I was really just curiouse why? Is there something you would like to see them change in the new book or are you just closed minded to the race itself? Not flaming, just curious...

Oh jeez, you gave him a chance to type up a reply *all* about himself.

Short answer to your question : DD's parents were raped by DE. Shocking and tragic, but very, very true. :(

JHDD the point is there is proof yakface said it was happening he is in the know he knows people that work for gw and like I said in the sw thread to shuma there is no need to troll someones thread just cause you want them locked.

I always find it highly amusing when a poster suggests we lock a thread.

What are some of the new DE choices supposed to be?

Will they finally get a super heavy that you don't have to kitbash?

I think a complete redesign is a good idea for Dark Eldar. The problem with DE, right from beginning, is that they were a thin concept stretched thin over a very thin Codex. The first few 3rd Ed Codices were, quite frankly, terrible books. They were devoid of fluff, you were into the rules by page 5 (if not earlier) and you never got the feel of the army.

That said, I don't think they should change the core concepts of the Dark Eldar, and make them Chaos Eldar or anything absurd like that. I actually like the whole "hiding in plain sight" thing they do with Slaanesh (as opposed to using Spirit Stones) and their lack of psykers (due to not having Ghost Helms to protect themselves). It's a very fatalistic style of Eldar, and that's good for the game.

Just less bondage material and spikes. I shouldn't have to wear mesh gloves when using a DE army for fear of slicing my fingers open.

And isn't Jonnyboy is like Dakka's own little holocaust denier, only replace "holocaust" with "Dark Eldar" or perhaps even "logic".

JohnHwangDD wrote: The DE army more or less does what it's supposed to do. It's fast & fragile, and it's going to be hard to make DE much faster or more fragile. It still wins just fine, so overall power isn't a huge issue.

I disagree, John. The problem is the Dark Eldar are fast & fragile. Fluff-wise, that is very cool. But as it applies to actual tabletop gaming, it only appeals to some (I know, I played them for years, and I never once had a partner in crime). Most gamers simply are not drawn to an army that wins or looses by turn 3 (or 2, or 1).

BTW, I've been away from 40K for about 5 years. We were having these exact same discussions about DE when I left, so I feel like I'm in a time warp).

I'd prefer it if they split the Eldar race differently. Two books that fit their Titles.

1)Craft World Eldar-Name say it all and the book contains rules for building each craftworlds armies.

2)Eldar: Exodites and Outcasts- Deals with areas of the Eldar too long overlooked. Barbaric frontier Eldar, Pirate/Corsair Eldar, and The Dark Eldar Armies.

One book deals with the Eldar with the tech and discipline to resist Slaneesh, The other focuses upon the fallen who do not follow the path to the infinity circuit. The ones that show mankind that he still has a bit to learn about how to be viscious.


Just my opinion.

When I started playing this game I found I had a taste for the destructive and violent. My choices came down to Tyranids, Necrons, Chaos Space Marines, and Dark Eldar. A friend already played CSM so I decided not to go with it since I wanted to avoid a duplicate army in the gaming group. The Necron WBB rule was cool, but I felt that combined with phase-out might be a little much to start with for me as a newbie knowing nothing at all about the game. I was left with Tyranids and Dark Eldar. Tyranids are a faceless force seeking to devour the universe (as far as we know anyway) and the Dark Eldar are violent elves. I've always hated elves in RPGs and fantasy games/books for being "above all others" and generally being jerks. So when I saw elves being violent, destroying, burning, and pillaging all that they find leaving a bloody and ruined trail in their wake I was all over it. However, this was near the end of 4th edition when we knew a 5th ed rulebook as on it's way. My friend played Eldar as his main army, with around 2k or so points of dark eldar and a few Necron models. He's a fan of the ancient races and similar themed things. We talked for a moment about Dark Eldar and he and I both agreed the army is fantastic in concept, but lack of support from the creating company troubled him. In the end I chose Tyranids because I didn't see much future for the Dark Eldar until I came to find Dakka and threads about the Dark Eldar. I've since bought around 30 warriors and a ravager. They're just sitting around. Seeing people talking about Dark Eldar has given me faith in their return. I'll probably finally start the army I would have played if they get a codex update. If not I'll just have some neat models, no real loss. As to why I don't play normal Eldar, despite reading the fluff and understanding they're not the shiny and high-and-mighty elves. They have a troubled past and a troubled future, but their models have too much of the elegant shiny elven influence for my taste.

Summary: I think that by seeing support from it's creators people will have renewed faith in the longevity of a Dark Eldar army and start one where before it's lack of support made them shy away from an army they otherwise may have enjoyed.

Grot 6 wrote:A real rumor would be that they were actually be getting ready for release, or something.

Depends what you mean 'getting ready for release' they are not due out this year but earlier than I thought in 2010.

The models are amazing (with Jes doing them could they be anything else) that conflicts with my bias against T3 pointy ears.

Speaking of models Brim, didn't you and Yak see some of them a while back?

Kind've puts an end to DD's little "Not happening" crusade if you ask me.

Gobbla wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote: The DE army more or less does what it's supposed to do. It's fast & fragile, and it's going to be hard to make DE much faster or more fragile.

I disagree, John. The problem is the Dark Eldar are fast & fragile. Fluff-wise, that is very cool. But as it applies to actual tabletop gaming, it only appeals to some

Right, and limited appeal is the point of the army. In 40k, there are only so many archetypes and concepts possible. Dark Eldar get the fast & fragile one, and in exchange for that, nobody else duplicates their strengths and weaknesses. This makes DE unique, and solidifies their position within the metagame.

If you make DE noticably less fragile, then they start to overlap the Eldar design space, and especially the Tau. That's not good for any of the 3 Xenos races which should each have a distinctive character in how they play.
____

focusedfire wrote:I'd prefer it if they split the Eldar race differently. Two books that fit their Titles.

1)Craft World Eldar-Name say it all and the book contains rules for building each craftworlds armies.

2)Eldar: Exodites and Outcasts- Deals with areas of the Eldar too long overlooked. Barbaric frontier Eldar, Pirate/Corsair Eldar, and The Dark Eldar Armies.

One book deals with the Eldar with the tech and discipline to resist Slaneesh, The other focuses upon the fallen who do not follow the path to the infinity circuit.

IIRC, Exodites have Infinity Circuits of a sort, so the only Eldar who don't are Harlequins and Dark Eldar. Exodites really aren't like Dark Eldar from a conceptual standpoint. Though they are very poorly developed, so it's possible they could be retconned into Dark Eldar in green... Anyhow, that 2nd book probably overloads quickly, without any clear focus. Or it's 2 or 3 separate lists, which is probably confusing.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Speaking of models Brim, didn't you and Yak see some of them a while back?

Kind've puts an end to DD's little "Not happening" crusade if you ask me.

I did and yes it does.

Can't say much more about them at the moment because I was asked not to and on this sort of stuff I keep my word.

But if you have an issue with my posts on DE, it probably behooves you to think about *why* that is the case.

Thanks for the response and makes sense. I too am a little frustrated with the lack of release so have been working on other armies until they are released. Tired of the tease but I think the news we have received recently seems to back the fact that they are redoing them...I hope hehe.

I think with the Eldar re-write and the detailed cover of the fall pretty much sets the stage for the Dark Eldar. Basically the DE are really the Eldar before the fall. They created Slannesh who destroyed their way of life so kinda makes sense as to why they are not worshiping him.

Either way I am looking forward to seeing real items myself and will continue to work in other races until DE become a reality.

I think HBMC raises a really good point: those early 3rd edition codices were very thin, and pretty awful. The rules were all over the place, there was almost no fluff, and they contained the worst tactical advice possible (the IG book at one point stated "ALWAYS take 2-3 commissars", at a time when 1 was pretty much the maximum for serious play).

The best bit of DE fluff was the story from a White Dwarf where Asdrubel Vect tells the story of the DE to a prisoner, and actually, you know, explains who the DE are and why they do things. Why wasn't that in the codex?

I mean, there is a way to really give some Pathos to the army: they're long lived beings that are terrified of death, because when they die they're souls are owned by Slaanesh. Rather than live the ascetic life of the craftworlds, they react in the opposite way: by bribing Slaanesh with more souls and pain than he could possible get from simply killing eldar. What would make them more interesting, I think, would be to connect them more fully to the other races of eldar. Maybe the DE's slave raids and sacrifices don't just protect themselves, but also the exodites, or even the craftworlds.

In terms of game play, they were a total mismash. IG style gunline squads, KoS style raider squads, decent bikes, the best light assault troops in the game and some fun characters, plus a bunch of filler, made the list pretty thin. I'd imagine they'll have more than 2-3 choices per FOC slot in the new book, with more options for playing.

Fluff-wise, I think there is room for a simply selfishly evil race. Game-play wise, I think the 5th edition rules are built for an ambush/raiding style army like DE. Toss some good models out there, and DE can be successful.

Sigh...I just want to keep playing with what I have and wait to see what GW does a year or so down the road, without all these constant and painfull reminders that GW esentially considers my favorite army a "side project".

gardeth wrote:without all these constant and painfull reminders that GW esentially considers my favorite army a "side project".

They don't, well let me say they don't anymore.

They are getting a major wedge of plastics and almost the entire range created by the best sculptor GW has.

The codex is being written by the acknowleged expert on 'Xenos codices'

I wouldn't call that a side project.

No matter what industry you're talking about, you can tell a lot about a project based on the resources assigned to it.

JohnHwangDD wrote:As a former DE player, I have a lot of annoyance with GW not making up their mind on the DE and stringing people along for years.

And we get to the root of John's hate. Bam. Right there.

Brimstone wrote:

gardeth wrote:without all these constant and painfull reminders that GW esentially considers my favorite army a "side project".

They don't, well let me say they don't anymore.

They are getting a major wedge of plastics and almost the entire range created by the best sculptor GW has.

The codex is being written by the acknowleged expert on 'Xenos codices'

I wouldn't call that a side project.

I heart you Brimstone. That has made my day. Mmm... Dark Eldar...

Asmodeus wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:As a former DE player, I have a lot of annoyance with GW not making up their mind on the DE and stringing people along for years.

And we get to the root of John's hate. Bam. Right there.

I've had similar feelings about both Orks (which I played in third and fourth) and Space Wolves.

I think the design studio is at least attempting to become more 'professional'. JJ even made the comment a few Adepticons ago, that in the past, they had relied totally upon 'inspiration' as to their next project. Now, they have tried to establish the number of armies that they are going to support, and these armies will be regularly updated and supported.

A lot of GW haters will say, "but then they do more marinez! hurr!" Which, is true. But, Marinez sell. At least Orks finally got a new codex. SWs are rumored to be just around the bend, and the DE sometime in the year or so. That's a huge improvement. Now, Nids are still hanging out there, along with Tau and Necrons and the Inquisition books (which, iirc, DH is third and WH fourth). But, it seems like they're at least trying to improve their support of lines, and not just leaving out there to wither and die. If there's still some third or fouth edition books floating around when Sixth Edition launches, then I'd say they're full of it.

DE are in the fifth edition rulebook. I think that was a huge, 'we're serious about keeping them around and updating the line' commitment from GW. How many squats were in the third edition rulebook?

JohnHwangDD wrote:After a few years of this kind of rumor nonsense, I now require actual proof, which nobody has been able to provide.

Brimstone wrote:
Depends what you mean 'getting ready for release' they are not due out this year but earlier than I thought in 2010.

The models are amazing (with Jes doing them could they be anything else) that conflicts with my bias against T3 pointy ears.

Brimstone, would you be talking about these?



Looks like pretty definitive proof of work on the DE codex and model range to me!