1 on 1, who would win? Orks or Imperium?

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**40kenthusiast**

Alright, the fundamental problem of this thread is that it isn't clear enough in its question.

Scenario #1: No other races were ever present, just Imperium vs. just Orks.

Impossible scenario, Imperium depends on comatose Emperor, which needs Horus + Chaos.

Scenario #2: Present day, other races disappear, Imperium crushes Orks with the military they've built up to deal with a galaxy full of threats. Orks don't unite in the face of doom, because they are Orks. Clear win for Imperium.

Scenario #3: Orks unit to destroy Imperium (Grimgor shows up, Ghazgull's big Bro, whatever), other races dissappear, Orks crush Imperium under weight of numbers. I think Imperium puts up a good fight, but the Ork codex is pretty clear about how this would go down, and the Imperium codexes don't disagree. Win for orks.

**Xav**

disregarding all the other armies and just about showdown imperialvs ork.

**Dronze**

In one end-all, knock-down, drag-out fight between the Orks and the Imperium of Man, I'd have to give it to the orks. The reason I say this is actually quite simple, and based on this small selection of assumptions:

1. The Orks would have to be united into one Uber-huge Waaagh. While this may seem problematic (as everybody seems to claim that the Orks would end up massacring each other...) It's not as big an issue as one would think. While the Orks aren't exactly the brightest crayons in the galactic art kit, they aren't stupid... They don't generally kill other members of their Waaagh in droves for no reason, in fact, when they do partake in mass infighting, it seems to actually serve the purpose of making the whole of the Waaagh stronger. They'll fight and kill rival factions, but this serves a purpose. Like the Tyranids, this kind of fighting tends to be more of a refining and fortifying method than a means of genocidal conquest.

2. Politics. The Imperium of Man, while seeming to have a great amount of cohesion, there are still those members of upper echelon command within the Imperial Guard that seek glory and credit for themselves in the grand theater of war. Numbers game or not, the orks run on the simple idea that the biggest one is in charge.

3. The Ruinous Powers... Orks aren't susceptible to being tainted by the warp, humans are. If you want to run this scenario, you also have to take into account the Astrotelepaths, Battle Psykers, Librarians, and additional strain placed on even the latent psykers that may be running around within the IG itself. We're talking about a potential nightmare scenario here as the table then has massive potential to turn, opening up the possibility for a Daemonic incursion behind Imperial lines. Assumptions otherwise would rule out the possibility of such a large-scale fight, as Warp Travel still has it's own issues altogether.

4. Planetside vs. Space run-ins. On the ground, Orks have the clear advantage, as the power of the Waaagh seems to dictate that they'll only run out of vehicles and weapons a long while AFTER the enemy does. In space, boarding actions are likely to start a snowball effect, either eliminating or converting the imperial fleet for the orks' own uses. Pile this on top of the fact that, given the scenario of a Galaxy-wide Waaagh, what imperial picket is going to be able to stop that degree of a press? The Orks can produce ships on a much faster time frame, and are still more than capable of boarding actions. Even if the Imperium manages to take an Ork vessel, the best they can do with it is score a kill, nothing more. Humanity is not able to utilize Ork technology, Orks are not thus inhibited.

**Demogerg**

I am going to side with The Imerium of Man.

So, orks can infest a world very quickly once a spore gets there. Simple solution for humans, Exterminatus on EVERY planet with even a hint of ork infestation.

but orksies have space hulks you say? The entire might of the Imperium could obliterate their spacecraft without much effort. Consider all the vessels in the Imperium fighting against all their enemies, now all focused on one goal.

Orks would never be able to make any serious land war effort because the Imperium would avoid it, any worlds that are critical to the success of the war effort would have a rediculous garrison of naval vessels to stop the orks from making landfall.

Exterminatus+better Space navy=Humans win.

**The New Romance**

Demogerg wrote:Exterminatus+better Space navy=Humans win.

I concur! The Orks depend on attacking the surface of a planet (even if they are able to attach their spores to spaceships, that isn't going to get them that far!), and aren't the greatest space farers. The Imperial Navy would surely be able to blast their approaching crafts to pieces before they could descend on the planet.

**Corpsesarefun**

Demogerg wrote:
So, orks can infest a world very quickly once a spore gets there. Simple solution for humans, Exterminatus on EVERY planet with even a hint of ork infestation.

In the Ork vs Imperium war to end all wars the orks would have attacked most of the imperiums main planets...
Your suggesting they call Exterminatus on holy terra?
HERESY!

**Cheese Elemental**

You should no that there are not, in face, trillions of Orks.

There are septillions. Can you comprehend that figure? Trillions upon trillions upon trillions of them in our galaxy alone.

**ChaoticOrkz**

septillions? i say infinite!!!

**Xav**

I think its quite obvious Orks win, but people are still argueing for imperium.

**Cryonicleech**

As a greenie, my vote should be orks

But, I propose a stalemate.

The only problem with the Imperium is that they haven't had to fight the Ork in a 1 on 1. The Ork has large, large numbers, and can create more boyz very quickly. But the Imperium has God Machines. Orks can make Stompas to counter these, and in large numbers.

**SsevenN**

Everywhere mankind goes, the Orks have already been.

I think it's safe to say they would never wipe each other out. The Imperium doesn't have the resources or knowledge of the outer rim, and the Orks don't have the incentive to stop fighting themselves and everyone else.

But, if for some strange reason, ALL the Orks gathered under a single Waaagh!? Yeah, the would wipe us Oomies.

**HellsGuardian316**

Xav wrote:I think its quite obvious Orks win, but people are still argueing for imperium.

Just because you disagree doesn't mean we are wrong anymore than you, at least post something constructive. You think it obvious that orks would win, please explain why...

Good cases have been made by others for both Orks and Imperium IMHO

**Orkeosaurus**

40kenthusiast wrote:Scenario #2: Present day, other races disappear, Imperium crushes Orks with the military they've built up to deal with a galaxy full of threats. Orks don't unite in the face of doom, because they are Orks. Clear win for Imperium.

Scenario #3: Orks unite to destroy Imperium (Grimgor shows up, Ghazgull's big Bro, whatever), other races dissappear, Orks crush Imperium under weight of numbers. I think Imperium puts up a good fight, but the Ork codex is pretty clear about how this would go down, and the Imperium codexes don't disagree. Win for orks.

Exactly.

This whole thread makes me want to put the palm of my hand on top of my face. If the orks united they would easily crush the Imperium. It explicitly says in their codex that they would destroy all opposition if they ever united, and with more of the galaxy held by orks than the Imperium, and with every ork being capable of fighting, building and maintaining ships (to a degree), and producing supplies it's not even a contest.

If the orks aren't united, you're giving the Imperium a huge advantage when they already have the upper hand. It's not even a contest there either, the orks would be pushed out to the rim or outside of the Milky Way.

Also, Exterminatus isn't a win for the Imperium, it forces a draw. Saying they'll win by letting all of their planets die off is stupid, they need them more than the orks do. The Imperial Navy's superiority on a ship-to-ship level is also irrelevant, because they're outnumbered twenty to one. Most Imperial planets don't have the ability to build warfleets, all ork populations do.

**ChaoticOrkz**

I think it will be a stalemate as said earlier

ChaoticOrkz wrote:This war could be a never ending cycle.

IF the imperium were to push the orks to the outer limits of the galaxy as you all CLAIM it can than the worlds where orks had fought and died and all the space crafts and vehicles involved in those battles will be littered with spores and more orks will manifest and again the cycle will start anew.

Maybe the imperium after a certain amount of time will begin to run low with supplies and troops and eventually fall victim to the Orks.

**HellsGuardian316**

@Orkeosaurus

You've hit it right on the nose, thats exactly the case

**CT GAMER**

The orks are their own worst enemy.

IF they could stop infighting and actually organize as a cohesive waaagh made up of all existing orks they would roll over the Imperium with out breaking a sweat and that is backed by fluff.

However orks will never be able to do so based on current fluff...

**sourclams**

I disagree with stalemate. The Imperium is very gradually losing ground against the combined incursion of Chaos, Tyranids, and Orks and against the predations of Eldar/Dark Eldar/Tau.

If the Imperium is basically stable against the entire galaxy, then obviously they're far superior against a small percentage of the threat.

Humanity versus fractious Orks: Orks are pushed beyond the edge of Astronomican-illuminated space

Humanity versus united Orks: Orks annihilate most influential or 'hub' systems (Terra, Medusa, Ultramar), but humanity is able to survive in small out of the way pockets that Orks either are unaware of or don't pose enough of a threat to base a Waaagh around.

**GeneralRetreat**

The answer for the Imperium is simple; Genetic Modification.

Same as the idea for taking on a Hive Fleet, you don't kill the army (well, you do), but primarily, you poison the Hive Node, which will shut down the whole process at the root.

All that has to be done is to make a chemical spray with a highly virulent material that acted as a carrier for some agent that would strip away RNA constructor protiens from the Orkoid spores. Destabilize the process of spawning, and you just have to kill the rabble once.

It would be simple, just isolate the protiens that do the replication, and destroy, neuter, or confuse them enough to make mistakes, and the whole organism will fail to form. You could also do cool things like breeding them with a genetic loyalty to the Emperor, making them small with hands perfectly suited to carrying trays of hors'doerves, or even make them excrete waste in neat promethium-tank shaped pellets.

Kill them or use them, I honestly wouldn't see the Imperium ever regaining enough mastery of technology and genetic chemistry to pull this off... although they do have the Virus Bomb, I just don't know if that was another STC based thing, or an actual scientific development. I'm betting on the former, which means the Imperium don't stand a realistic chance at all.

**Orkeosaurus**

Don't forget that the orks were created to be super-resilient by geneticists who were a lot better than the Imperium.

And honestly, they don't need the ability to respawn on Imperial-held worlds to win either.

**Da Boss**

I think it's slightly unfair to think that the imperium is the only one fighting tyranids, tau, eldar, necrons and chaos. They're all fighting each other, too.

**The Angry Commissar**

imperium but the war would never be over cuz of the stupid spores. Imperial tech and weapons are way better than orks. plus we have the Emperor and therefore the right to rule everything we find! =)

**HellsGuardian316**

Da Boss wrote:I think it's slightly unfair to think that the imperium is the only one fighting tyranids, tau, eldar, necrons and chaos. They're all fighting each other, too.

This particular topic is concentrating soley on a "what if?..." scenario. Yes all other races are fighting all other races, but considering that the Imperium and the Orks are the most numerous in terms of population, the OP just wanted to hear out views of if the fight was against "just" those two adversaries.

**Orkeosaurus**

Da Boss wrote:I think it's slightly unfair to think that the imperium is the only one fighting tyranids, tau, eldar, necrons and chaos. They're all fighting each other, too.

That's true; however, because the orks fight other orks so much more than anything else, the amount they fight against other aliens is comparatively smaller.

**Emperors Faithful**

But with the Imperiums size, it is inevitably only the Imperium that suffers the majority of attacks. The only case I know of where there has been a DEDICATED conflict between Greenskins and other xenos is in the Octavian Empire Vs Nids. In other cases, orks have actually ALLIED with chaos and such (Green Kroosade).

You can try to scrape a draw by saying that orks will never ALL die. But the same could apply to humans. They are tenacious, and famously hard to get rid of in thier own enviroment. (Catachan, anyone?) Just as you could probably not annihilate every single ork, you could never annihilate EVERY SINGLE human.

**Orkeosaurus**

Majority of the attacks by whom?

The majority of attacks by orks are done to other orks.

The Imperium doesn't notice wars between orks and tyranids, unless it's something of Leviathan's scale, where one of the many ork empires is able to hold off forces that the Imperium would have struggled to stop. I've never heard anything to indicate they attack Imperial worlds more readily than ork worlds.

The eldar and dark eldar are very small forces. Necrons haven't awakened in large numbers yet, but they seem to attack whoever's nearby. Tau are small, but fight more orks than humans anyways. Chaos mostly fights against humanity, as do other human traitors.

Neither the orks nor humans would likely destroy every last one of the other species, but the destruction of the Imperium and the vast majority of human lives would be enough to be their defeat, as would getting pushed to the edge of the galaxy would be for the orks.

**Emperors Faithful**

I'm just saying that the Imperium is more prone to attacks. Mainly becuase it has a bigger territory (don't DARE dispute that).

Also, I agree with your last paragraph. (It took us 4 pages to there but we did it). Now let's see which outcome is more likely.

(Obviously Imperium)

**Orkeosaurus**

Um... I'm pretty sure orks control more worlds than the Imperium. They certainly outnumber humanity by a lot, so I suppose that depends on their relative population density.

And the fluff is very clear that the orks would win if they were united. If they weren't they wouldn't win. I don't think there's much more to say there, it depends on what the scenario is.

**Lord_Lockhart**

ok i dont know if this has been posted or not, but ummm if imperium is the only enemy alive and even if not all the orks united to form a massive waagh. Its likely that many many different ones would come from all corners of the Galaxy to fight their one and only enemy at the moment besides themselves and even though infighting would occur there would defently be a final leader left or one that just is bigger then everyone else and then would cause a huge waagh that would kill all of the imperium just because of pure numbers/yoou can only fire so many bullets till you have to swing a sword at a swarm of huge genetically made for war orks who can hands down beat any human in cc and if you bring up power armour we defently know that there way more orks than sm.

so ORKS WIN always and for ever

also heres my sum
1 hordes of smal waagh
2 waaaghs fight each other plus humies
3 massive tidal wave waagh
4 humans die due to fighting beasts made for war seeing as there are so many more orks than humans they could run a line of 100 orks at you have each one take one bullet and let the last one rip your head from your shoulders

5 orks win

**Uberman7788**

1. 2nd war of Armaggeddon *cough*

2. Do you all forget Great Boss Tuska? He invaded the Eye of Terror, and ripped off the Blood Prince's balls, and lead his boyz to valhalla. Greatest ork of all time.

3. Mekboys would capture some IG and make a cannon that shoots them.

4. Ghazkull Mag Uruk Thraka. Nuff said.

5. Orkz are a fungus, one dermatologist can annihilate their race.

**Orkeosaurus**

Why would you want to shoot guardsmen out of a cannon? They're too soft, you shoot something hard, like beekies.