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ShumaGorath wrote:You don't play too many RTS games do you... Those games are about as dissimilar as it gets in the genre. Ones a grid based svga wonderland of economic farming, resource control and fortification, and tight unit control backed up by a robust and easily grasped rock paper scissors method of unit balance, and the other is dawn of war. A game where you run around capturing flags, building your OMG giant army, and then running it into the other guys OMG giant army until one of you wins. High level matches usually end up going to the uniquely advantaged side (chaos vs orks is a bye for chaos, necrons vs eldar go to eldar, etc). It's got none of the careful econ management of starcraft, none of the unit balance, and none of the push and pull defense (unless you are at a reeeeaaaaly high level of play, and even then the forces basically ignore one another until the big fight).

*facepalm*

Christ... I didn't say the games were similar Shummy, I said the interface and mechanics were. Of course the games aren't the same, even from the most basic resource collection to the way armies are moved around, cover-mechanics, squads vs indivudual units. It's obvious that they're not similar here. Jesus... don't any of you people fething read...

ShumaGorath wrote:As for the interface, it's all pretty much the same in the genre.

Yeah now it is. Just like all FPS are deathly afraid of including health-bars these days thanks to Halo, RTS's like DoW (and ST:Armada, like I said) have interfaces and menus that look basically the same as the Starcraft one. Both Armada and DoW stand out as having the same menus down the bottom - buttons in the same places, the same portraits, the map in the same spot. It's not just similar, it's the same. You could say that DoW's interface came from Impossible Creatures, but then IC's interface came from Starcraft.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShumaGorath wrote:MEQ doesn't really work as a term in a videogame context.

I agree. This isn't the place for an anti-MEQ because this is a video game, not 40K, and the concept doesn't cross over that well.

I'll look forward to purging them

Christ... I didn't say the games were similar Shummy, I said the interface and mechanics were. Of course the games aren't the same, even from the most basic resource collection to the way armies are moved around, cover-mechanics, squads vs indivudual units. It's obvious that they're not similar here. Jesus... don't any of you people fething read...

They aren't similar, but the interface and mechanics are the same. What? WHAT?

Do you read what you type? Can you comprehend the meaning of that sentence?

How are they not similar when you say their mechanics are identical?

Yeah now it is. Just like all FPS are deathly afraid of including health-bars these days thanks to Halo, RTS's like DoW (and ST:Armada, like I said) have interfaces and menus that look basically the same as the Starcraft one. Both Armada and DoW stand out as having the same menus down the bottom - buttons in the same places, the same portraits, the map in the same spot. It's not just similar, it's the same. You could say that DoW's interface came from Impossible Creatures, but then IC's interface came from Starcraft.

Also what do you mean these days. Starcraft is almost 10 years old, and it's gameplay was a tweaked version of warcraft 2 (read: basically identical) which is almost fifteen years old. Warcraft two was a tweaked version of warcraft one, which is now almost 16 years old.

For comparison the original command and conquer dropped in 1995. Dawn of war dropped in 2005.

The real time stretegy genre interface hasn't changed much in the time since DUNE released. The interface isn't going to change for a while, but then, it's not like FPS' are changing either. They still have little ammo counters, first person perspectives, and guns that take up a quarter of your screen.

You should probably form these thoughts better before posting them.

ShumaGorath wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Im mad they pick next race to be another MEQ
it should have be IG! they even have some cadians in gamem already T-T

MEQ doesn't really work as a term in a videogame context.

Then lets hope the units wont be mirrored like their SM counter parts.

HQ: Chaos Lord , Daemon Prince , Chaos Sorcerror

Terminator -> Chaos Terminator
Tactical Squad -> Chaos Marine
Assault Marines -> Chaos Raptor
Devastators -> Havocs

etc etc

I havent got DoWII, so I may be wrong, but SMs can't get Deavastators can they? Therefore it would be good to have havocs. I also think they should have less MEQ units, and more units like Thousand Sons, or Noise Marines, I'm bored of playing Khorne over and over again. It should be like AoM, with a research tree, and a branch for each Chaos God, Or an option for the weaker but broader aspect of Chaos Undivided.

Pagarus wrote:I havent got DoWII, so I may be wrong, but SMs can't get Deavastators can they? Therefore it would be good to have havocs. I also think they should have less MEQ units, and more units like Thousand Sons, or Noise Marines, I'm bored of playing Khorne over and over again. It should be like AoM, with a research tree, and a branch for each Chaos God, Or an option for the weaker but broader aspect of Chaos Undivided.

They have devastators , plasma cannon and heavy bolter variant . though its 1 hvy weapon + 2 bolter marine per "squad"

oh, bin the havoc idea then

LunaHound wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Im mad they pick next race to be another MEQ
it should have be IG! they even have some cadians in gamem already T-T

MEQ doesn't really work as a term in a videogame context.

Then lets hope the units wont be mirrored like their SM counter parts.

HQ: Chaos Lord , Daemon Prince , Chaos Sorcerror

Terminator -> Chaos Terminator
Tactical Squad -> Chaos Marine
Assault Marines -> Chaos Raptor
Devastators -> Havocs

etc etc

Well, due to DoW2's smaller size and larger emphasis on equipment it could be a lot different then that.

Terminator - chaos terminator: They are both the same unit but the chaos terminators depending on loadout could function quite differently. A singular squad, wielding both heavier close combat abilities and a reaper autocanon could find a good midway between assault termies on the space marine side and standard gun termies. Rather than upgrading for weapons it could upgrade for it's champion or demonic mark, both of which would change the function of the unit significantly.

Tacs vs Marines: Again, items and upgrades make the unit. As chaos has no scout variant these would be the core troops of the force. A bigger shift from weaponry to close combat would do enough to differentiate the unit significantly, and a possible power weapon or power fist upgrade on the seargant (vs they shall no know fear) will change the unit from a hard ranged counter to a small, expensive close combat shock troop with limited anti vehicle.

Assault marines vs raptors: Raptors probably wont be in the game. They are vanilla and boring, and everyone loves the hell out of berserkers. Problem solved.

Devastators vs havocs: This is a question of devastators vs obliterators. Not havocs. The havocs will likely only show up with an autocanon in the first tier, and then get replaced later by oblits wielding heavy weapons (probably in the third tier).

Chaos will likely bring cultists as the cheap, swarmy early cap and CC unit, and they will probably function as a cross between slugga boyz and termagants. Again, very dissimilar from scouts. With a small daemon summon in the first tier, a crazy dead in the second (this will probably function like the SM dread, but really, all the dreadnaughts in the game work the same way anyway) and a vindicator rather than a pred in the third tier the chaos army would differentiate itself quite well.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Chaos would be nice.

Terminator Lord, Power Armour Sorcerer and... and what?

daemon prince??

Tyrolean wrote:Anyone try the Firestorm over Kronus mod?? v3.5?? it's so amazing *sighs*

I have, just 3 days ago or so...and it's pretty much just awesome.

Pretty much, anyone in this thread who is saying "I wish guard had inquisitorial allies" or I wish chaos had thousand sons/plague marines/etc" should really just take a look at that mod... because it probably has what you were wishing for already.

Gorechild wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Chaos would be nice.

Terminator Lord, Power Armour Sorcerer and... and what?

daemon prince??

Since they'll likely go with 4 HQ's (, I get the feeling the other races will get an additional one each) then there are really two possibilities.

1. They split it by god. Tzeentch sorcerer; tougher than the farseer, with similar abilities. The Khornate lord in regular power armor; less health than the captain, warboss, and hive tyrant, but higher dps against groups (depending on equipment) and probably a melee damage aura. The Nurgle lord, with the later option of terminator armor (highest health of any HQ unit in the game, but meh dps, and ok abilities, probably with some sort of health aura. And finally a Slaanesh lord in power armor; this would be the forces quick guy, probably with an optional jump pack or lashwhip abilitiy (mix of the lictor and warp spider).

2. Just all the HQ choices. Sorcerer, Lord, Daemon Prince, Greater daemon. The daemon prince and GD wouldn't be that hard to balance considering the hive tyrant is in there already, and the sorcerer and lord would just be psyker and captain analogues.

I hope they do the first option.

I agree completely, ShumaGorath. The first option is my fervent hope for the HQ choices in the game. Otherwise we're going to end up with some more bland Chaos, and that would make me a sad panda.

Any patches for DOW2?
like squad limit cap increase and such?

Ah good point. I forgot about them adding in another unit for the other sides. A 4th HQ would be quite good.

I'm hoping the Berzerkers sound like Berzerkers in this and not pirates.

LunaHound wrote:Any patches for DOW2?
like squad limit cap increase and such?

No, and you should probably never expect it. It's well balanced to its current numbers. They're highly unlikely to ever up it for appearances. Its a sacrifice for game balance.

Will you still have to log onto steam and the other spyware server after the update? Knowing that you have to have 2 different accounts and sign into both is what has kept me from getting it in the first place.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Will you still have to log onto steam and the other spyware server after the update? Knowing that you have to have 2 different accounts and sign into both is what has kept me from getting it in the first place.

Yes.

Unsure if this is true was on 4chan.. anyone got this mag can confirm?

Also elphias the inheritor lol.


Expansion for DOWII confirmed. There's a two page preview in the latest PC Gamer UK.

Here's some info from another board.

New Mechanic: Corruption Level. Essentially, it's a campaign mechanic if you complete missions in ways which might be frowned upon by the Imperial Cult, e.g. trashing a shrine.

Corruption level affects wargear options and how NPC allies react towards you.

Campaign: There is a Spess Marine campaign in which you fight against chaos. At least part of it takes place on Meridian, and the Angel Forge map. The text does not say this is the only campaign, or even if this is the final campaign. It just describes a mission the writer got to play. In which he was Space Marines against CSM. It might just have been something they knocked up to show the press or a WIP of the final campaign.

Relic quotes suggest it might be more narrative driven than the previous one.

In this campaign, you will likely meet
Eliphas the Inheritor

Confirmed Units:

Regular CSM, obv
Chaos Predator
Bloodletter on Khorne Juggernaut
Chaos Dreadnought

The Chaos Marines in the screenshots were in Night Lords colours, SM were Blood Ravens.

Release Date: Spring.

Cool! Although why a bloodletter? I think they should leave Daemons out. They're too gimmicky for my taste.

Good if Eliphas is back though. I like the Chaos Lords that don't sound like dinosaurs.

space marines do get devastator squads but their not convential 40k squads. Theres one designed for infantry with bolters and a heavy bolter in the squad and theres one designed for vehicles and even squads which is a plasma team. I'm not sure if chaos will have their variants.


I onyl hope in DoW2 there isnt just going to be the blood thirster. I'd like to see a keeper of secrets in it. Though im betting it'll be khorne orientated at usual ;-;

I get the feeling this expansion will be another relic chapterwank campaign.. I would rather play another other race (chaos would be no.1) in campaign even tyranids.. and I hates them.

I've never been that keen on the campaign in DoW2, i tend to play the skirmish type game son it. Although, they murdered dark angels with the colours they used for it. Their pretty much luminous on it. :(

ShumaGorath wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Any patches for DOW2?
like squad limit cap increase and such?

No, and you should probably never expect it. It's well balanced to its current numbers. They're highly unlikely to ever up it for appearances. Its a sacrifice for game balance.

Hmm thats unfortunate for me i guess.

I wanted to play Dawn of War not Dawn of Skirmish

The engine wouldn't be able to handle a huge meatgrinder spam fest like the first Dawn of War can. I'd rather have DoW2's tactics and maneuvering over the first game's horde rush any day. If people just wanted Dawn of War 2 to be the same game, what's the point?

Back on topic: Some people were speculating that the race is actually Chaos, not Chaos Space Marines. In the fluff, the most common Chaos enemies are traitor guard, mutants, and general scum. Who here thinks it would be kinda cool to focus more on them, and save Chaos Marines as an elite unit in Tier 2? They've got 10,000 years of experience, it would only make sense to have them be a bit more advanced than a tac squad.

if thats true then my fears of khorne chaos just came true. Again.

Well khorne is the most popular good ... or just the easiest to represent.

Who here thinks it would be kinda cool to focus more on them, and save Chaos Marines as an elite unit in Tier 2? They've got 10,000 years of experience, it would only make sense to have them be a bit more advanced than a tac squad.

I agree, t would make it more interseting.
Give them Thousand Sons guns, and better ccw weapons, like the board game!

LunaHound wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Any patches for DOW2?
like squad limit cap increase and such?

No, and you should probably never expect it. It's well balanced to its current numbers. They're highly unlikely to ever up it for appearances. Its a sacrifice for game balance.

Hmm thats unfortunate for me i guess.

I wanted to play Dawn of War not Dawn of Skirmish

Too bad.

Some stolen info for y'all:



And...

OK, the preview is only two pages doesn't have too much information, though what it does have is quite important.

New Mechanic: Corruption Level. Essentially, it's a campaign mechanic if you complete missions in ways which might be frowned upon by the Imperial Cult, e.g. trashing a shrine.

Corruption level affects wargear options and how NPC allies react towards you.

Campaign: There is a Spess Marine campaign in which you fight against chaos. At least part of it takes place on Meridian, and the Angel Forge map. The text does not say this is the only campaign, or even if this is the final campaign. It just describes a mission the writer got to play. In which he was Space Marines against CSM. It might just have been something they knocked up to show the press or a WIP of the final campaign.
Relic quotes suggest it might be more narrative driven than the previous one.

In this campaign, you will likely meet
Eliphas the Inheritor


Confirmed Units:

Regular CSM, obv
Chaos Predator
Bloodletter on Khorne Juggernaut
Chaos Dreadnought

The Chaos Marines in the screenshots were in Night Lords colours, though of course
Eliphas the Inheritor
is a
Word Bearer
. SM were Blood Ravens.

Release Date: Spring.

Once again, I hope that the Berzerkers sound like Berzerkers and not like pirates.

.... and they added chaos dred instead of defiler or obliterator -_-