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Kroothawk wrote:2.) All Grey Knight models got a resculpt, many have been spotted by insiders. Standard GKs of course in plastic (Terminators?).

Where did that one come from? Stickmonkey?

My greatest worry is that GW will go crazy with the new designs, like with the Blood Angels. "Suffer not the lack of ornaments, decorations and gizmos to live".

Terminus wrote:Hurray for Grey Knights!

The only downside is that it will invalidate the Daemonhunter codex, so we will be left without a decent Inquisitor to induct. My guard will be screwed on the psychic front, or I'll have to take the very sub-par Witch Hunter Inquisitor. :(

Why oh why did they not give us an in-codex psychic hood? Argh!

because they don't want you to be an anti psycher army? and want you to absorb the damage through strength in numbers?


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Kroothawk wrote:Just for the record: Current rumours supported by credible posters say the following:

1.) Both Grey Knights and Sororitas will get a new Codex EACH (not just one Inquisition Codex), both are currently worked on
2.) All Grey Knight models got a resculpt, many have been spotted by insiders. Standard GKs of course in plastic (Terminators?).
3.) Grey Knights seem to be the autumn SM Codex release. A Storm Raven release is part of that.

Less confirmed is the rumour, that both Codices do not include Inquisition or at least concentrate on non-Inquisition stuff, turning to Ecclesia in the case of Sororitas and that Inquisition will be part of separate rules (supplement? WD?). Still this rumour makes sense to me.

Edit: Some people claim that GW confirmed on GD Italy that GK will be the next Codex after Blood Angels.

Not at GD Italy, but rather on an italian forum, from the italian GW events manager. Post was on Warseer, posted by Erikthered.

On Power Armoured SoB. Power armour has always given a 3+ save, because of how tough it is. A Space Marine is bigger than a Sister because a Space Marine has been genetically engineered to be more muscley. That doesn't change how the armour works, just that it needs to be bigger to accommodate the larger body of the Space Marine. This is taken into account by worse stats elsewhere (Toughness and Strength 3 compared to 4)

I think that a joint codex would be better, as it would pull together =][= players, allow cooler looking armies, and cut down on shelf-space in stores. Something GW are always looking for.

Oshova

Of course, there's always that oft-forgotten fact that Space Marines get the black carapace implant in order to interface with the power armor, and the immaturity of this implant is the reason Space Marine scouts cannot wear power armor.

But SoBs get to ignore this because they're hot nuns with guns, I guess. I'm definitely interested in a new SoB army, but I'll be sad if they lose to combat corsets. The original metal models are still some of the best sculpts released by GW in the last 20 years. Jes Goodwin is unmatched. That's why I'm fearful about the Dark Eldar release, they may be just too purty for me to resist.

That's true. But it's not mentioned anywhere whether Sisters get this implant. It's unlikely, but you never know.

And I really hope they're not too purdy. I already have over 3000 points. And that's more than enough for me lol

Oshova

"Power armour has always given a 3+ save, because of how tough it is." seems like a tautology to me. That assumes all Power Armor is the same, much like saying all cars go the same speed or all computers cost the same.

If the system was finer grained, I'd at least make SoB power armor a 3.5 to the Space Marine's 3. It's clearly not as bulky.

The usual fluff is that Space Marine Power Armor requires the black carapace, but not all power armor is Space Marine power armor. Lots of big cheeses have access to power armor, including Inquisitors and of course the Sisters, but it's a different model. Even the Inquisitors in Space Marine style Power Armor presumably use a different model that uses cruder control interfaces. Space Marines probably have much better fine control over the armor, while SoB and Inquisitors need to be much more careful.

Another difference is probably sensor suites. SoBs seem even less likely than SM to wear helmets. Presumably, they also have less sensors and perhaps less 'comfort items.' (We never hear about SM or anyone else stopping to take a wee, for example.)

I didn't realise that Marines needed the toilet . . . They stay in those suits for weeks during war . . . Eww? lol

But yes it does make sense that others should face a penalty to using their Power Armour compared to SM . . . But IMHO SM should always have been Strength and Toughness 5. But there you go =p

Oshova

SOB armor has always looked to me to be closer to 4+ like kasrkin rather than 3+. as stated above, marines endure pain and cybernetic surgery to properly interface with their armor... and the nuns just have to... well do nothing. i hope they go down to 4+ (added variety for imperials if there is a 3+ standard army, a 4+ standard army, and a 5+ standard army with mixed stats inbetween) with a heavier 3+ devastator nun variant. really, i mean, come on... does it look like nun should get the same save as the marine?

Quality doesn't have to equal bulk, warboss.

I wouldn't change SoB armor to 4+ or anything of the sort. Remember that a 5+ armor save represents both the Cadian flak armor and a bunch of angry Rambos with naught but wife beaters and abs for protection. Leave power armor alone.

Dysartes wrote:Quality doesn't have to equal bulk, warboss.

right... because marines are equiped with the bulky, inefficient armor in the imperium? oh wait, they're not... they get the best of the best according to the fluff yet somehow the thin leather corsets of a nun can equal at 1/8 the thickness and 1/10 the weight.


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Brother SRM wrote:I wouldn't change SoB armor to 4+ or anything of the sort. Remember that a 5+ armor save represents both the Cadian flak armor and a bunch of angry Rambos with naught but wife beaters and abs for protection. Leave power armor alone.

this edition it does. in the previous codex, they got a 6+ wifebeater tshirt save. either way, the inaccurate depiction of catachan "armor" doesn't have much bearing on the discussion of an inaccurate depiction of sob "armor". i actually like it from a modelling perspective when gw makes a visual difference between the saves. 2+ should look different in size and protection from 3+ from 4+ etc. if you look at a kasrkin next to a cadian guardsmen, you can easily see the difference. either way, it's not like my opinion suddenly magicaly appears in the next SOB codex.

yeah,
4+ makes sense.
Add in their faith and I can easily see it being 4++.

Panic...

They aren't ever going to change the armor save of Sisters, no use arguing it.

If they don't mix the codices they need to keep allies abailable so I can make my Inquisitorial army and not be a sad panda. As for the armor save since the sisters are physically smaller (hence T3) they allot for the denser power armor to be smaller in size as well. The marines don't go under the knife to get power armor. They go through it to be the super soldiers with more strength and toughness than a mere human can achieve. Those stats are there to represent the person in the armor while the armor stat is there to represent *gasp* the armors ability to take a hit. If you want to make sisters 4+ saves for logic reasons I want BS4 or 5 standard instead of acute senses for the tau battlesuits "supior" sensor capabilites.

warboss wrote:

Dysartes wrote:Quality doesn't have to equal bulk, warboss.

right... because marines are equiped with the bulky, inefficient armor in the imperium? oh wait, they're not... they get the best of the best according to the fluff yet somehow the thin leather corsets of a nun can equal at 1/8 the thickness and 1/10 the weight.

They don't get the best of the best. They get quality stuff, but their budgets are nothing compared to the coffers of the Ecclesiarchy or Inquisition. They could buy and sell an entire Space Marine chapter with one week's revenue.

By the way, the Sister in that comparison shot is damn foxy.

It's not leather it's adamantium . . . But they're both made of cow skin right? . . . Ok now I just want to make an adamantium cow . . . but I digress

Also, the best of the best is a Land Raider surely . . . But really Terminator armour. So why don't they just equip every space marine with Terminator armour!?

Furthermore, SM suits of power armour are millenia old in some cases. They're relics along with every other piece of equipment. Yes new stuff is made, but the majority is handed down from one SM to the next. They aren't allowed personal possessions. Only those borrowed from the chapter for the use of their job.

And Terminus I second that . . . But don't tell it to her face, or you might not live to see the light of day again =p

Oshova

It'd be worth it.

Sigh...

If they made Sisters 4+ then they would have to get some really awesome buffs. In what form who knows, maybe every sister squad could get a Sister Hospitaller which give a 3+ FnP, that would make sense.

The price of a sister with a 4+ save would also be reduced to somewhere around 8 points. If they stayed at 11pt then they would also get all the grenades, frag, krak, defensive etc and bolt pistol as well. Same treatment SM got pretty much. Then again sisters have no read use of frag because they are not a CC army.

So keeping in line with the 12" army I could see them get defensive grenades, sister hospitaller with 3+ FnP and a lower points cost. It would mean allot more sisters on the table which in turn would mean allot more Ap1 bolter shots.

If Sisters get 4+ instead of 3+, could someone explain then what the powerpack on the back is for?

Thanks for bringing a touch of class to the thread Terminus.

... and thanks for discussing wanted rules changes for the Witch Hunter Codex in a news&rumour thread about Grey Knights.

If Sisters go down to a 4+ save they should get T4 like they had in 2nd edition.

BrookM wrote:If Sisters get 4+ instead of 3+, could someone explain then what the powerpack on the back is for?

It's still power armor, just not as heavy as that worn by the Space Marines.

Presumably they are equipped with helmets, even if they rarely wear them, so it's environmental controls, possibly commo, etc.

The main reason I think this would be an interesting avenue is that it gives them a different niche from the Space Marines and the Imperial Guard.

Thus eliminating the need for say, Inquisitorial Storm Troopers as well?

Balance wrote:

It's still power armor, just not as heavy as that worn by the Space Marines.

Presumably they are equipped with helmets, even if they rarely wear them, so it's environmental controls, possibly commo, etc.

The main reason I think this would be an interesting avenue is that it gives them a different niche from the Space Marines and the Imperial Guard.

Sisters play very differently than Space Marines right now. That 3+ save is not that big of a deal. Sisters have to soak a lot more wounds than a comparable number of space marines. They already have a different niche than Space Marines.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Thanks for bringing a touch of class to the thread Terminus.

What can I say? That's what I do.

Oh, and quoted by the way, completely out of context of course. That's also what I do.

BrookM wrote:Thus eliminating the need for say, Inquisitorial Storm Troopers as well?

No, you see Storm Troopers would go to a 5+, and inducted Guard would go to a 6+ and,

This whole discussion is stupid. Sisters will keep 3+ since they have power armor. They'll probably go down a few points and their acts of faith will be rejiggered. They'll probably stay T3, which would be nice. T3 and 3+ is a distinct profile, and doesn't quite fit into either GEQ or MEQ. I'd like it kept that way.

Kroothawk wrote:Less confirmed is the rumour, that both Codices do not include Inquisition or at least concentrate on non-Inquisition stuff, turning to Ecclesia in the case of Sororitas and that Inquisition will be part of separate rules (supplement? WD?). Still this rumour makes sense to me.

This was the really interesting talk in that conversation, IMO. An "allies" supplement/codex -- if done well -- could be a great, great release.

Imagine Inquisition for Imperials...LatD for CSMs...GCults for Tyranids... Huge potential there, and it'd be a bit of a bone to throw to vets.

right... because marines are equiped with the bulky, inefficient armor in the imperium? oh wait, they're not... they get the best of the best according to the fluff yet somehow the thin leather corsets of a nun can equal at 1/8 the thickness and 1/10 the weight.

lol
Repentia, a bunch of nekkid nuns, get equal saves to heavily armed carapace stormtroopers for crying out.

rocklord2004 wrote:I want BS4 or 5 standard instead of acute senses for the tau battlesuits "supior" sensor capabilites.

Those stinkin bluies have big ol' bug eyes and STILL always seem to be squinting. I'm pretty sure they are nearly blind in comparison to humans and their robotech helmets are bringing them up to bs3/bs4. Mind you this is senseless biggotry and I am citing nothing...

MadCowCrazy wrote:If they made Sisters 4+ then they would have to get some really awesome buffs.

As somone pointed out earlier, faith would probably be able to make that 4+/4+. I personally imagine 4+/5+ for battle sisters, no faith required. Talk about an IG players nightmare... Hordes of 20 girl strong, 8-10 point, 4+/5+ battle sisters rampaging across the board like orks with 4+ invul saving repentia mixed in here and there. Toss in deepstriking double melta pistol toting seraphim & CC goddess st. Celestine, rivaling mephistion in pure kicka$$, and you have a really cool army. I wish my codex prophesy was accurate, but I digress.

BACK ON TOPIC PEOPLE!!!

What do you imagine PAGK's will cost in the new book? 18pts?