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Kanluwen wrote:I think it's more of a case that the marketing department is aimed more towards crowds that y'know...don't spend time on forums like this.

When they had their own forums, they didn't do a terrible job of 'marketing' new releases. They'd drop hints and then bam, you'd suddenly see an updated "Sneak Peek" posting with some new shinies(usually one for each game system).

Kan, come on. I know it’s a ‘thing’ of ours where you defend GW and I rag on you for being an apologist, but let’s be realistic here:

This is a highly reactionary decision that takes the opposite approach to what they should be doing. Rather than expanding their marketing opportunities, they are further shrinking into themselves in hope that they can ‘control the message’, which is simply impossible in this day and age. In a time where other companies are embracing electronic media and social networking GW seems to be recoiling. This is a mistake. Would Mantic, PP or half-a-dozen others be around if not for electronic media?

This isn’t the early 80’s, no matter how much GW wishes it was. Global communication isn’t just readily available it’s also really simple to do. And while I’m not about to go and call print media ‘dead’ as others have in this thread – I have no real knowledge on the subject beyond what I hear in the news – refocusing all their efforts on White Dwarf is a bad way to compete in this day and age. I’ve always said that they need to leverage WD more than what they do currently, but they cannot do it to the exclusion of all else.

Even GW’s target demographic – the 10-12 year olds – are online. I wasn’t when I was 10 (I had a 386 running Windows 3.0 and Commander Keen 4 was my fav game in the world – the Internet didn’t ‘exist’), but kids today are, and to ignore what almost every company in the world is leaping towards is utter madness and shows a lack of business sense on a scale since... well since the last major fuckup GW was part of (pick one – there’s many).

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I think it's more of a case that the marketing department is aimed more towards crowds that y'know...don't spend time on forums like this.

When they had their own forums, they didn't do a terrible job of 'marketing' new releases. They'd drop hints and then bam, you'd suddenly see an updated "Sneak Peek" posting with some new shinies(usually one for each game system).

Kan, come on. I know it’s a ‘thing’ of ours where you defend GW and I rag on you for being an apologist, but let’s be realistic here:

This is a highly reactionary decision that takes the opposite approach to what they should be doing. Rather than expanding their marketing opportunities, they are further shrinking into themselves in hope that they can ‘control the message’, which is simply impossible in this day and age. In a time where other companies are embracing electronic media and social networking GW seems to be recoiling. This is a mistake. Would Mantic, PP or half-a-dozen others be around if not for electronic media?

Don't know about Mantic/PP. Can't really know to be honest.

And I'm not arguing the point that GW's doing this correctly or anything like that. I've got no clue where in the heck you've gotten that idea from, but it might just be reading more into a post than was intended to be in it.

Yes. It's stupid of them to try to do this. But no matter how the flow of information comes, I get the feeling not everyone would be happy(and that's discounting whatever the hell GW's trying to accomplish) about how it's done. Even if it were simply requiring you to sign up for GW's site to access the content, I can almost guarantee that there would be people complaining about it saying that GW has too much of their personal information or other ridiculous statements such as that.

This isn’t the early 80’s, no matter how much GW wishes it was. Global communication isn’t just readily available it’s also really simple to do. And while I’m not about to go and call print media ‘dead’ as others have in this thread – I have no real knowledge on the subject beyond what I hear in the news – refocusing all their efforts on White Dwarf is a bad way to compete in this day and age. I’ve always said that they need to leverage WD more than what they do currently, but they cannot do it to the exclusion of all else.

Print media, quite frankly, is close to being dead. If you look at an issue of Fine Scale Modeler compared to an issue from 2004, there's a big difference. The majority of their content has gone from being reader submissions to being kit reviews and the classifieds section has gotten to take up even more of the magazine.

Even GW’s target demographic – the 10-12 year olds – are online. I wasn’t when I was 10 (I had a 386 running Windows 3.0 and Commander Keen 4 was my fav game in the world – the Internet didn’t ‘exist’), but kids today are, and to ignore what almost every company in the world is leaping towards is utter madness and shows a lack of business sense on a scale since... well since the last major fuckup GW was part of (pick one – there’s many).

Again.

The goal in controlling 'the message' is not simply just to make "White Dwarf the news source". It's to control the announcement and timing of the announcement. If they're smart and do previews within their "What's New" section--it just might not be terrible.

Come on HBMC, you know kids these days don't use the internet. It's a series of tubes that frightens and confuses them.

Or wait, that's the folks in retirement homes/GW offices.

This is can only be good

H.B.M.C. wrote:Would Mantic, PP or half-a-dozen others be around if not for electronic media?

Honestly, HBMC... This 'supposed switch' that GW is stating their doing, is very similar to the way PP runs their magazine now (it consistently sells out at my FLGS, but of course YMMV). Funny enough, though, No Quarter (the PP mag for those of ya'll reading that don't know), is very similar to the old WD mags - eg. actual bat reps**, hobby stuff, contests, player interactions, fluff, etc.

(**I remember one bat rep had a new warlock model coming out, and the player using the new warlock lost fairly badly in the bat rep, though they did cite that since he was a new warlock, he'd take some time getting used to)

Just my 2 cents.

Yeah but compare GW and PP.

PP previews their upcoming releases well ahead of their release. GW does not.

PP apologises to their customers for mistakes, errors, delays, and even price increases. GW does not.

PP explains why they do what they do (eg. the recent price increase). GW does not.

PP has a monthly magazine filled with content that people want to buy*. GW does not

PP has a website blog they use to preview upcoming information. GW has this as well, but their website blog is naught but thinly veiled advertising (at treats its audience like idiots).


*NB: I have never read 'No Quarter' and that comment is based upon what has been said in this thread and in others.

H.B.M.C. wrote:PP has a monthly magazine filled with content that people want to buy*. GW does not

Just to clarify, H.B.M.C, No Quarter comes out every other month - the point still stands, mind you.

As much as I always enjoyed, (and still enjoy) flicking through the pages of my old White Dwarf collection looking for new ideas, rereading some old articles for nostalgia purposes etc. it is still behind the times. I haven't bought one in over 5 years now, basically around the time I stopped purchasing all printed media. I just find that having all my books and magazines sitting on a flash disk to be far more convenient than sitting in a massive pile in my bedroom. I can look at them anywhere, any time i want. They are easy to store, searchable, and always there when I need them.

As great as old paper mags feel they are fading, and nothing is going to change that. I won't buy a WD in print no matter what it has in it, but put it down as an eBook and I'll buy the heck out of it (as long as the price is reasonable, somewhere in the $2 per issue range).

Welcome to the future GW, if you ignore it, it will ignore you. If you embrace it, well, you just might have something that keeps people thinking and talking about your game.

Melissia wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote: I just hope GW's weird behavior doesn't affect the Fantasy Flight RPGs. And no, I still won't buy a WD.

Don't worry. FFG is competently managed, they're no GW.

I'm confident that sooner or later GW will do something stupid like jack up the licensing fee that FFG pays them.

In the meantime, though, FFG will no doubt keep publishing some good product.



I sort of understand why GW wants to limit information going out. But they've got to loosen up at least a little bit. At the very least, they should follow the Battlefront model - publish a list of what's going to be released during the coming year, and save the details (i.e. figures and the like) until a month or two prior, which is typically when GW sticks the pictures in WD anyway.

Great - I've just cancelled my subscription as well!

I'm all for WD improving to how it used to be, but the way they are going about it seems plain dumb.

Getting a magazine early is one of the perks of subscribing -not getting it until or after everyone else really makes subscribing a bit pointless (unless you have no shops nearby that sell it).

Also, if I undestand it right, you won't find out what's released until after it has already been released - WTF??

Optimistic me wants to believe that WD will get better and be worthwhile, but pessemistic/cynical me thinks it will be just a flash in the pan, and quality will decline again.

Any bets they'll start sealing it in plastic so you can't skim through it first?

RiTides wrote:Hey guys, I'm all for poking fun at GW's insane approach to marketing... but this is actually good news, right? WD being worth buying?

Not really. We want White Dwarf to have content so that there's more content. So far the rumour says we're not getting more content, they're just taking content that should be elsewhere and putting it into WD.

I own every issue of WD since 150 and I have to say that this reminds me of how WD was back in those days and is what got me into the hobby in the first place.

I'm looking forward to this "new" direction of WD, I hope this goes well for GW.

Platuan4th wrote:Translation: We realized people weren't buying our overpriced catalog and are now trying to rectify this by giving people what should have continued to be in it all along.

thank god im not the only who thought it was becomming a catlog

Quite happy if they do go back to having some quality modelling/gaming articles in it.
Would also explain why the Astronomican on the website has had more tumbleweed of late. Will they shift every single article to WD then? Used to enjoy reading the Astro on lunch.

As for stiffling the info etc, do I agree with it? certainly not, but its GWs choice and what is one to do.

But even the 'blog' updates are pointless... oh look here's someone with loads of uber models... he's a staffer who built this thing FROM SIX KITS THAT COST £35 EACH, It strikes as something from North Korea - people are starving to death but the guys in charge show happy pictures of smiling children with flowers and puppies... dissenters are quashed... by the Emperor this sounds just like 40k!

Agreed totally on the blog updates, they have been poor for ages but the astro did have some good articles in it.

oh look here's someone with loads of uber models... he's a staffer who built this thing FROM SIX KITS THAT COST £35 EACH,

So true it hurts.

What they seem to have failed to grasp is that, as soon as one issue gets even a whiff of publicity, somebody's going to scan it, take a photo or describe it and boom - one £4.50 issue everywhere on the planet, for free, instantly...

My point is, I'm at the point in my life where if $8 can buy me an hours worth of enjoyment... I consider that a pretty decent buy.

Really? What's the establishment's number?

Seriously though folks I agree with many that this is counter-intuitive for GW to do. It hasn't worked has it? If we've already seen the Storm of Magic minis and have fairly good information on the Sister's dex then this policy is fail before it even comes into print. Their blog is shocking and largely a mute point - there are forums (such as this) that show other people's models continually & now it won't even have any preview information of anykind?

The only reason i've bought the occassional White Dwarf are for the painting articles by 'Eavy Metal - which has helped improve my painting no end over the last few years (well that and Devlan Mud ).

I own every issue of WD since 150 and I have to say that this reminds me of how WD was back in those days and is what got me into the hobby in the first place.

I'm looking forward to this "new" direction of WD, I hope this goes well for GW

That's nostalgia talking my friend, pay it no heed!

I hope WD can drag itself out of the cesspool of creativity it's been stuck in for years but their release policy is just plain stupid

I think that this is a step in the right direction in so far as they do need to control the message. I like WD but I don't think it should be the cutting edge of information. The actual problem is that it's when the magazine goes to the printers that leaks happen (see Storm of Magic). They need to give better content in WD but at the same time they need to pull their finger put and exploit their website. The daily blog is decent for hobby stuff but they should have a new release blog that isn't daily. Get the designer articles online too. Often when I am thinking of what to buy next I check the articles online. If they really wanted to be at the current cutting edge of publishing they'd have a subscription wall on their site. Unfortunately that would mean having content worth paying for. I have watched Wizards of the Coast go to a web only presence in the last three or so years and it has been horrible to watch. Their own forums have turned into rant fests just like Blizzard's. I wouldn't want to see GW go back to that, but they could do more about getting the news to us first rather than wait for WD.

Who wants to bet that a price rise will follow for it.
Then the minatures will go up of course, because adding more content to WD means that the price of minatures has to go up to compensate!

Can't have old GW on the street now can we?

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:Translation: We realized people weren't buying our overpriced catalog and are now trying to rectify this by giving people what should have continued to be in it all along.

Translation: Our IP lawyers told us, they can't make the internet go away, so we decided to ignore it and concentrate on our inhouse print medium as sole information source for everyone. Our main goal to prevent sales staff and customers to learn about our products before the release is almost achieved, even when our second goal to sell products suffers from this

Translation: Our senior management is a relic of a bygone age, convinced that it should remain in an evermore adversarial position with the online communities that have sprung up when we aborted our own because we could not make it say precisely what we wanted it to.

We will therefore attempt to stifle communication with the hobbyists yet further and, rather than listen to feedback that might avoid further gak like the poombagor or the fugly monsters of 'storm (in a teacup) of magic' fame, we will just shunt figures out onto our shelves and expect people to leap to attention and buy them like good, obedient drones, despite the fact that many won't even be aware of their existence in time. We will then look shocked when our sales fall yet further and reassure ourselves with a nice cosy price hike.

Hooo-fething-rah.

Further come the lines of division between the company and it's consumer. Nearer drift their online savvy customers to their more approachable rivals.

Bring on the serious competition, lets hope it can save GW from it's self. Or kill it and let something less totally shuttered rise up and take it's share.

I think you guys are reading way to much into this...

I just translate: WD price rise

No wonder WD wants to get back into the early 90's because in real world today you have companies that on their sites give free downloads not of complementary mags but of full rulebooks... GW would love to time travel back but guess what its not going to happen and you either embrace the technology available today or you are going to be left behind.

insaniak wrote:

Creeping Dementia wrote:Soooooo... rather than wanting to be on the cutting edge of social media, technology and information, they want to go back to the 80's and 90's.

Go back? Don't you realise that this newfangled interweb thing is just a fad? Print media is where the future is at!

Also, look out for GW's big summer release: The Games Workshop Kerosene Painting Lantern! When the market drops out of this crazy electricimathingy, GW will be right there on the cutting edge!

Do you think GW are just preparing themselves for when the Age of Technology ends?

Another fantastic move GW. We aren't in the fething 80s anymore. I'm past the point of hoping GW will turn things around, I want the company to go under, I want Kirby and all those monkeys who run it to lose out on a job. I want it to be bought by someone who know what they're doing. The background will always exists, my models will always be here, but GW in it's current mind-set, cannot, and should not, survive.

iproxtaco wrote:I want the company to go under, I want Kirby and all those monkeys who run it to lose out on a job.

Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you!!!

Another tidbit:

rikard from Warseer wrote:I've actually met Trish and chat with a few other GW sculptors and painters and if it puts your mind at rest I tell you why they don't respond. They are not allowed to use any forums at all, as part of their contract, they are forbidden to post anything, even private sculpts of their own which will never see production. They're not even allowed to drop the vaguest of hints towards anything. It's literally on par with a gagging order, especially for the new comers at GW.

Rumour has it that GW's internet marketing is now run by Chinese government officials
Just kidding, but sadly you can't tell the difference anymore
More and more weird management decisions indicating that GW management has recently snapped and is now openly fighting reality.

Bringing content back to WD is fine (making a WD Codex Sororitas is not). But fighing all other information channels including trade support is dumb and doesn't work. Imagine Tom Kirby's face when seeing the leaked WD July pics

iproxtaco wrote:Another fantastic move GW. We aren't in the fething 80s anymore. I'm past the point of hoping GW will turn things around, I want the company to go under, I want Kirby and all those monkeys who run it to lose out on a job. I want it to be bought by someone who know what they're doing. The background will always exists, my models will always be here, but GW in it's current mind-set, cannot, and should not, survive.

I feel much anger in you. Anger is the path to the Dark Side.

I know WD has changed a lot over the years (he says looking at WD 14), but for yeras it has had nothing that use to make it a good read; Chapter Approved, 'Eavy Metal, fiction, great artwork - where's it all gone? Looking at my collection behind me I've bought 3 in the last five years, becuase every time I check one out in the shops it looks like a cross between a catalogue and a sales brochure.

Kroothawk wrote:Another tidbit:

rikard from Warseer wrote:I've actually met Trish and chat with a few other GW sculptors and painters and if it puts your mind at rest I tell you why they don't respond. They are not allowed to use any forums at all, as part of their contract, they are forbidden to post anything, even private sculpts of their own which will never see production. They're not even allowed to drop the vaguest of hints towards anything. It's literally on par with a gagging order, especially for the new comers at GW.

Rumour has it that GW's internet marketing is now run by Chinese government officials
Just kidding, but sadly you can't tell the difference anymore
More and more weird management decisions indicating that GW management has recently snapped and is now openly fighting reality.

Bringing content back to WD is fine (making a WD Codex Sororitas is not). But fighing all other information channels including trade support is dumb and doesn't work. Imagine Tom Kirby's face when seeing the leaked WD July pics

Not surprising really, given that tales have surfaced of lowly store managers and employees being given the boot when found to be contributing to fora.

I only ever buy select release issues, which comes to about 10 in the last few years. There's literally nothing else worthwhile in it.

I really wonder why am I paying so much money for a game run by idiots.

if they want money, they are trying their best not getting it.

We love rasing prices (me want more money), internet F*** you, I don't want people know about what I do. Now pay up children get you WD or you don't get know anything. Go to hell the rest of the world. if your 200 miles away from the GW HQ your not allowed discounts.

I think I had enough, what is GW's problem. I don't want to see this game die/end but GW is trying their best to do it.

Kroothawk wrote:Another tidbit:

rikard from Warseer wrote:I've actually met Trish and chat with a few other GW sculptors and painters and if it puts your mind at rest I tell you why they don't respond. They are not allowed to use any forums at all, as part of their contract, they are forbidden to post anything, even private sculpts of their own which will never see production. They're not even allowed to drop the vaguest of hints towards anything. It's literally on par with a gagging order, especially for the new comers at GW.

That's just dippy. I'm under a couple of NDA's from FFG, and their restrictions on what we can and cannot say are fairly straight forward and serious, but certainly not draconian like GW's. Can't even show off private sculpts? What???