Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

ph34r wrote:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:Daemons can lose without dying. What happens is they don't have enough strength to remain in the 40k reality, and get sucked back to the warp.

So would a faction that possesses a SupCom's military capacity care if they kill or merely "kill" a daemon? I think not. As long as you can reproduce the effect, it does not matter if you blast them to bits back to the warp of banish them for 1001 years. Gone is gone.

They're not gone, just in the warp. If it's all of 40K, they're fighting the warp, too. Which means, if they want to win, they'll have to enter the warp and fight on their terms, or wait and get surprise gakked by the daemons. So, save for Grey Knights there is no real way to kill a daemon. They never cease to exist, they just move.

Brother Coa wrote:No they can't, it's always Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle and Space Marine that break them in the end. Guard always get slaughtered.

Wrong. Read any story in the IG codex timeline. I play Imperial Guard AND Inquisition, so it is easy for me to call bull gak on you for this one.

Brother Coa wrote:They are kept secured by the Inquisition, so we have very little info about them.

By that you mean they are KILLED by the inquisition. Then again, cite one source and I will believe that the Imperium keeps them when they could routinely save TRILLIONS of lives in combat, like say in the 13th black crusade or the fall of Medusa V or any Tyranid Hivefleet invasion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

ph34r wrote:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:Daemons can lose without dying. What happens is they don't have enough strength to remain in the 40k reality, and get sucked back to the warp.

So would a faction that possesses a SupCom's military capacity care if they kill or merely "kill" a daemon? I think not. As long as you can reproduce the effect, it does not matter if you blast them to bits back to the warp of banish them for 1001 years. Gone is gone.

They're not gone, just in the warp. If it's all of 40K, they're fighting the warp, too. Which means, if they want to win, they'll have to enter the warp and fight on their terms, or wait and get surprise gakked by the daemons. So, save for Grey Knights there is no real way to kill a daemon. They never cease to exist, they just move.

You are 100% right that you cannot destroy a daemon's essence with mundane means, but SupCom's power level is so high that they do not care how long they delay the return of the daemon, for they can defeat them every time.

Additionally SupCom's universe is not nearly as bleak and despair-filled as 40k's, so at any area where a SupCom faction is in control, daemons would be nearly impossible to summon.

ph34r wrote:SupCom has no gods, it has extradimensional psychic aliens that have nearly the power of gods and are not afraid to use them like every god in 40k. SupCom has the raw mass harvesting and efficiency of the Tyranids, the strength of material, technology, and travel capabilities of the Necrons, and the advanced infinitely adaptable blueprints of the Golden Age of Man STC, where every infantry produced is a battle titan and takes LESS THAN A SECOND TO MAKE.

40k does not stand a change. I'm sorry, it's literally every conceivable odd stacked against them.

They aren't more powerful then Chaos Gods that's for sure. They can create warp storms at wish and they are gaining power from emotions of every living being in the galaxy ( even Tau ).

Brother Coa wrote:

nomotog wrote:Don't forget that SC has supper weapons. Like the first game where they have that weapon that can destroy any planet in the universe or convert everyone in the universe to peace and love.

Only 1 was every built, and that 1 was destroyed. 40k still have several things that can destroy a planet. Did I mention that they have things that shift reality and eat Stars?

SupCom factions do not need planets, as they can teleport from planet to planet on a whim. They can construct entire bases in a matter of hours. The Imperium's response time ranges from weeks to years. The Imperium would never even know if an Armored Command Unit was on their planet unless they bumped into it.

If we take supcom to the logical extreme then entire planets could be turned into warmachines since mass and energy can be exchanged in that setting.
The initial commander builds one factory, which first builds two engineers. The same engineers continue to build factories which all build two engineers before they start production of war material...
After an initial period to secure infrastructure ( mainly energy-mass converters and powerplants ) an exponential growth would be possible which theoreticaly climaxes in the planet's entire consumption.

I can so no way how a war against such production capabilities could be won by the Imperium of Man or all other scif factions of a comparable "powerlevel".

ph34r wrote:Stronger than an Imperator by a factor of 20? That would make it hundreds of times stronger than a normal monolith. I am calling massive bull-gak. Cite a quote or get out.

As I said: Read Fall of Damnos, don't have a book here but it is descibed as "the most powerful Necron weapon ever seen by this day".

Brother Coa wrote:

ph34r wrote:SupCom has no gods, it has extradimensional psychic aliens that have nearly the power of gods and are not afraid to use them like every god in 40k. SupCom has the raw mass harvesting and efficiency of the Tyranids, the strength of material, technology, and travel capabilities of the Necrons, and the advanced infinitely adaptable blueprints of the Golden Age of Man STC, where every infantry produced is a battle titan and takes LESS THAN A SECOND TO MAKE.

40k does not stand a change. I'm sorry, it's literally every conceivable odd stacked against them.

They aren't more powerful then Chaos Gods that's for sure. They can create warp storms at wish and they are gaining power from emotions of every living being in the galaxy ( even Tau ).

So what? The Chaos Gods are not cable of reaching into the material world without intense emotion, souls, and sacrifice. They are all powerful, in the warp. They can do basically anything, if the corresponding amount of negative emotion and sacrifice is given. If you deny those resources, they are essentially powerless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:As I said: Read Fall of Damnos, don't have a book here but it is descibed as "the most powerful Necron weapon ever seen by this day".

You realize that is meaningless, right? As said in my previous post, most powerful Necron weapon is still an insignificant speck compared to an Armored Command Unit's army, capable of being dealt with within minutes of construction of forces.

Goku clearly wins this threads.

ph34r wrote:Wrong. Read any story in the IG codex timeline. I play Imperial Guard AND Inquisition, so it is easy for me to call bull gak on you for this one.

And you read Bloodtide Incident, Gheistos Cataclysm, Damnation Crusade and others...
Grater Daemons are not something IG can take without help.

KingDeath wrote:If we take supcom to the logical extreme then entire planets could be turned into warmachines since mass and energy can be exchanged in that setting.
The initial commander builds one factory, which first builds two engineers. The same engineers continue to build factories which all build two engineers before they start production of war material...
After an initial period to secure infrastructure ( mainly energy-mass converters and powerplants ) an exponential growth would be possible which theoreticaly climaxes in the planet's entire consumption.

I can so no way how a war against such production capabilities could be won by the Imperium of Man or all other scif factions of a comparable "powerlevel".

Thank you for that logic. Indeed, SupCom is on another power level, just as Golden Age of Man is on another (though still lower) power level.

Brother Coa wrote:

nomotog wrote:Don't forget that SC has supper weapons. Like the first game where they have that weapon that can destroy any planet in the universe or convert everyone in the universe to peace and love.

Only 1 was every built, and that 1 was destroyed. 40k still have several things that can destroy a planet. Did I mention that they have things that shift reality and eat Stars?

It wasn't just one planet it was every planet. Big difference.

ph34r wrote:You realize that is meaningless, right? As said in my previous post, most powerful Necron weapon is still an insignificant speck compared to an Armored Command Unit's army, capable of being dealt with within minutes of construction of forces.

So you are saying that C'Tan would be defeated by ACU army?
Ok, I am done tailing to you troll-fan....

Brother Coa wrote:

ph34r wrote:Wrong. Read any story in the IG codex timeline. I play Imperial Guard AND Inquisition, so it is easy for me to call bull gak on you for this one.

And you read Bloodtide Incident, Gheistos Cataclysm, Damnation Crusade and others...
Grater Daemons are not something IG can take without help.

Even if you take as a given that in EXTREME INCIDENTS daemons cannot be stopped by mortal means, a Supreme Commander would not care, as he could just self-destruct all his units, and teleport to another planet.

A Supreme Commander could control his domain well enough to 100% prevent any daemon summoning from occurring, as he could deny the necessary sacrifices and emotions.

nomotog wrote:
It wasn't just one planet it was every planet. Big difference.

And these are STARS, many STARS. Indeed big difference...

ph34r wrote:

KingDeath wrote:If we take supcom to the logical extreme then entire planets could be turned into warmachines since mass and energy can be exchanged in that setting.
The initial commander builds one factory, which first builds two engineers. The same engineers continue to build factories which all build two engineers before they start production of war material...
After an initial period to secure infrastructure ( mainly energy-mass converters and powerplants ) an exponential growth would be possible which theoreticaly climaxes in the planet's entire consumption.

I can so no way how a war against such production capabilities could be won by the Imperium of Man or all other scif factions of a comparable "powerlevel".

Thank you for that logic. Indeed, SupCom is on another power level, just as Golden Age of Man is on another (though still lower) power level.

I think most people are missing out on that part *enlarged.

Wait...the doomsday monolith is 20x the strength of a titan?

I'd hate to see the abattoir in action.

Brother Coa wrote:

nomotog wrote:
It wasn't just one planet it was every planet. Big difference.

And these are STARS, many STARS. Indeed big difference...

Do you know what exponential means?

It doesn't matter how many, how big.

Brother Coa wrote:

ph34r wrote:You realize that is meaningless, right? As said in my previous post, most powerful Necron weapon is still an insignificant speck compared to an Armored Command Unit's army, capable of being dealt with within minutes of construction of forces.

So you are saying that C'Tan would be defeated by ACU army?
Ok, I am done tailing to you troll-fan....

Yes. Definitely, 100%. C'tan are made of necrodermis, which is material, which can be destroyed by mundane means. Even if the C'tan's immortal energy-soul could survive forever, which it likely would not given SupCom's ability to manipulate the fabric of realspace which the C'tan resides soley in, and SupCom's ability to use psychics, a Supreme Commander would beat the C'tan's army every time.


A C'tan could never win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Wait...the doomsday monolith is 20x the strength of a titan?

I'd hate to see the abattoir in action.

No, Brother Coa is just a trollish fanboy who is making up numbers to try to exceed the numbers that I can cite from the supcom unit list information.

ph34r wrote:Yes. Definitely, 100%. C'tan are made of necrodermis, which is material, which can be destroyed by mundane means. Even if the C'tan's immortal energy-soul could survive forever, which it likely would not given SupCom's ability to manipulate the fabric of realspace which the C'tan resides soley in, and SupCom's ability to use psychics, a Supreme Commander would beat the C'tan's army every time.

A C'tan could never win.

"The C'tan (Eldar Yngir) are said to be the oldest beings in existence. It is said that they were created at the very beginning of the universe, spawned from swirling gases and enormous amounts of energy, and as such are etheric creatures by nature. ( Were is that necrodermis here? ) In their natural form they are vast beings and spread themselves over the surface of a star, sucking at its energy to feed itself. After a time, they learned to use diaphanous wings to travel to other stars to continue their consumption. The matter around them was so insignificant that it didn't even register on their voracious appetite1."

You are full of telling that some random faction can defeat creatures that are not bond by laws of psysics and that eat Stars to survive. I am done here...

Asherian Command wrote:Goku clearly wins this threads.

ph34r wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:but they can't kill the daemons, Only Grey Knights and pyskers can truely kill a Daemon.

And wrong again. They do use Alpha Pyskers. there is a description of a few that are in use. You just need to dig a little deeper. Plus we are talking about the Entire warhammer 40k universe not just the imperium.

Yes, they can. Or are you saying that in every engagement in which the IG fight the Daemons, the IG lose unless they just so happen to have the Inquisition with them at that time?

Name one Imperial Alpha+ Psyker and I will believe you.

1. That's exactly what we're saying. Do you think that it matters how many pieces of meat you put in from of An'ggrath?

2. Malcador. Magnus. The Emperor. Tigurius. Njal Stormcaller. Need I continue?

But lemme give ya a little quote:

"In the rarest of all cases, the twenty-four point scale of the Assignment does not adequately characterize a being of indescribable ability. Such individuals, for all intents and purposes, pass beyond the scale entirely. These subjects are known as Alpha-Plus psykers.

Uncontained, Alpha-Plus psykers represent an immediate and catastrophic threat to the Imperium. In theory, there is nothing that a trained Alpha-Plus psyker cannot accomplish through force of will; from snapping a Titan in half to summoning a legion of Greater Daemons. Representing such a great danger, the Inquisition usually executes Alpha-Plus psykers on sight unless the possibility for capture is nearly assured. "

^They try to capture them when possible.

Also, greater daemons, who are immune to regular weapons, can be summoned in legions by Alpha+ psykers.

ph34r wrote:No, Brother Coa is just a trollish fanboy who is making up numbers to try to exceed the numbers that I can cite from the supcom unit list information.

No, Brother Coa read books while you are telling me some 4 faction universe with only technology can defeat creatures so powerful they can make galaxy disappear.
And I cited several sources you said they are not important. You are obviously trololololololo fanboy here.
Thank God reasonable people are voting for 40k - got ya


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:
1. That's exactly what we're saying. Do you think that it matters how many pieces of meat you put in from of An'ggrath?

2. Malcador. Magnus. The Emperor. Tigurius. Njal Stormcaller. Need I continue?

Please leave him, he don't really read this or understand. He will just say "but SC super-powerful tech is so awesome....". He just said they could defeat C'Tan ( the old C'Tan, the one that enslaved the Necrons ) and that should tell you all.

Brother Coa wrote:

You are full of telling that some random faction can defeat creatures that are not bond by laws of psysics and that eat Stars to survive. I am done here...

Explain why the star gods would want to be transferred into the Necrodermis body

Plus all these guys are citing their sources. I could get most of you for not using MLA formatting.

But i won't complain.

For example warhammer 40k tyranids. (Gamesworkshop, codex tyranids.)

Brother Coa wrote:

ph34r wrote:Yes. Definitely, 100%. C'tan are made of necrodermis, which is material, which can be destroyed by mundane means. Even if the C'tan's immortal energy-soul could survive forever, which it likely would not given SupCom's ability to manipulate the fabric of realspace which the C'tan resides soley in, and SupCom's ability to use psychics, a Supreme Commander would beat the C'tan's army every time.

A C'tan could never win.

"The C'tan (Eldar Yngir) are said to be the oldest beings in existence. It is said that they were created at the very beginning of the universe, spawned from swirling gases and enormous amounts of energy, and as such are etheric creatures by nature. ( Were is that necrodermis here? ) In their natural form they are vast beings and spread themselves over the surface of a star, sucking at its energy to feed itself. After a time, they learned to use diaphanous wings to travel to other stars to continue their consumption. The matter around them was so insignificant that it didn't even register on their voracious appetite1."

ph34r wrote:Even if the C'tan's immortal energy-soul could survive forever, which it likely would not given SupCom's ability to manipulate the fabric of realspace which the C'tan resides soley in, and SupCom's ability to use psychics, a Supreme Commander would beat the C'tan's army every time.

It's like you really don't read my posts at all!

I mean, I already knew you didn't, but at least try to be subtle!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asherian Command wrote:Plus all these guys are citing their sources. I could get most of you for not using MLA formatting.

But i won't complain.

For example warhammer 40k tyranids. (Gamesworkshop, codex tyranids.)

Here you go! Happy reading.

http://supcomdb.com/db/unit_list/2/3


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:2. Malcador. Magnus. The Emperor. Tigurius. Njal Stormcaller. Need I continue?

Dead, daemon prince secluded on his home planet, dead, NOT ALPHA, NOT ALPHA. Please, you DO NEED TO CONTINUE. Not that you can.

ph34r wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

ph34r wrote:Yes. Definitely, 100%. C'tan are made of necrodermis, which is material, which can be destroyed by mundane means. Even if the C'tan's immortal energy-soul could survive forever, which it likely would not given SupCom's ability to manipulate the fabric of realspace which the C'tan resides soley in, and SupCom's ability to use psychics, a Supreme Commander would beat the C'tan's army every time.

A C'tan could never win.

"The C'tan (Eldar Yngir) are said to be the oldest beings in existence. It is said that they were created at the very beginning of the universe, spawned from swirling gases and enormous amounts of energy, and as such are etheric creatures by nature. ( Were is that necrodermis here? ) In their natural form they are vast beings and spread themselves over the surface of a star, sucking at its energy to feed itself. After a time, they learned to use diaphanous wings to travel to other stars to continue their consumption. The matter around them was so insignificant that it didn't even register on their voracious appetite1."

ph34r wrote:Even if the C'tan's immortal energy-soul could survive forever, which it likely would not given SupCom's ability to manipulate the fabric of realspace which the C'tan resides soley in, and SupCom's ability to use psychics, a Supreme Commander would beat the C'tan's army every time.

It's like you really don't read my posts at all!

I mean, I already knew you didn't, but at least try to be subtle!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asherian Command wrote:Plus all these guys are citing their sources. I could get most of you for not using MLA formatting.

But i won't complain.

For example warhammer 40k tyranids. (Gamesworkshop, codex tyranids.)

Here you go! Happy reading.

http://supcomdb.com/db/unit_list/2/3


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:2. Malcador. Magnus. The Emperor. Tigurius. Njal Stormcaller. Need I continue?

Dead, daemon prince secluded on his home planet, dead, NOT ALPHA, NOT ALPHA. Please, you DO NEED TO CONTINUE. Not that you can.

Thank you! There ya go that means everyone else should cite their sources now calm down and talk this out as reasonable adults.

Brother Coa wrote:No, Brother Coa read books while you are telling me some 4 faction universe with only technology can defeat creatures so powerful they can make galaxy disappear.
And I cited several sources you said they are not important. You are obviously trololololololo fanboy here.
Thank God reasonable people are voting for 40k - got ya

The fact that you think that voting determines truth only undermines your position -- not strengthens it.

Yes, some 4 faction universe with technology superior to any race in 40k, AND PSYCHICS.

In the Total Annihilation universe, a universe of identical technology and power level to Supereme Commander, they destroy their Galaxy.

Asherian Command wrote:Thank you! There ya go that means everyone else should cite their sources now calm down and talk this out as reasonable adults.

Brothercoa was the only person in here that is actively ignoring sc info.
Everything else was in a normal discussion.

ph34r wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

ph34r wrote:Wrong. Read any story in the IG codex timeline. I play Imperial Guard AND Inquisition, so it is easy for me to call bull gak on you for this one.

And you read Bloodtide Incident, Gheistos Cataclysm, Damnation Crusade and others...
Grater Daemons are not something IG can take without help.

Even if you take as a given that in EXTREME INCIDENTS daemons cannot be stopped by mortal means, a Supreme Commander would not care, as he could just self-destruct all his units, and teleport to another planet.

A Supreme Commander could control his domain well enough to 100% prevent any daemon summoning from occurring, as he could deny the necessary sacrifices and emotions.

He would do a better job of preventing sacrifices and emotions than the IoM? May I inquire as to your logic?

LunaHound wrote:
Brothercoa was the only person in here that is actively ignoring sc info.
Everything else was in a normal discussion.

I was not ignoring I was just saying that technology <<<<<<<<<<<< Warp.
And you 2 ignore that in all discussion. Unless SC have something that can kill Chaos Gods wh40k wins automatically.