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I actually preferred Lord Magnus' version. Nothing wrong with yours, but his is simply simplier.

I'll put it up there anyway and we will see what version people like better. I'm currently undecided...

Also what are the points for said ruleset?

Lion El'Johnson-700pts

WS BS Str T W I A Ld Sv
8 6 6 6 4 6 4 10 2+

Wargear
The Lion Blade
This is a master Crafted Power Weapon that gives +1 str. if you roll a 6 to wound with this Plasma infused sword, the opponent must reduce his Armour Save by 1 untill the end off the following Player turn. However, if a 1 to wound is rolled, Lion must take a wound with no armour saves allowed, as the massive flux of Plasma discharges in his face.
Plasma Blaster

Range Str AP Type
24" 7 2 Assault 2, Gets Hot!

Artificer Armour
The Hide of the Lion.
Taken from the lion he killed on Caliban, the impenatrble hide gives him a 3++ save.

Special Rules
ATSKNF
Beast hunter
The Lion and any squad he has joined gain the Prefered Enemy (Beasts and Cavalry), USR.
IC
EW
Acute Senses
Furious Charge
The Lion and The Wolf
Such is the kinship between Leman Russ and The Lion, that you may include a single unit of Wolf Guard from Codex: Space Wolves, in your army.

10 down, 8 Primarchs to go.

Which ones are left?

Loyalist rogal dorn, vulkan, corax, jagati khan

Traitor fulgrim, lorgar, alphairus, perturabo

Vulkan 700pts

Ws 7
Bs 6
S 6
T 6
W 4
I 5
A 4
Ld 10
Sv 2+ 3++

Wargear
The Song of Entropy and the Unbound Flame
These are a pair of MC TH.
The Spear of Vulkan
The Gauntlet of the Forge
Kesare's Mantle
Artificer Armour
Frag and Krak Grenades

Special Rules
ATSKNF
Combat Tactics
Chapter Tactics(see Vulkan He'stan)
IC
EW
Night Vision
The Eye of Vulkan
If Vulkan doesn't move, he can fire an Orbital Bombardment of Str D, AP 2, using the 10" template

this forum is going towards a really cool perspective...but I dont mean to burst the bubble of hard work, but there is a book with rules for the primarchs, and their legions, which was playtested and things to make sure it was fair, not sure on the link, if I do find it Ill post it here. bar ein mind it isnt gw so they wont allow it.

How's this?

Looks good.

Loyalist rogal dorn, corax, jagati khan

Traitor fulgrim, lorgar, perturabo

Keep up the good work guys these rules look great.

Corax 700pts

WS BS Str T W Int A Ld Sv
8 6 6 6 4 7 5 10 2+

Wargear
The Raven's Talons.
These are a pair of master crafted Lightning Claws with the Rending rule. Note that only one reroll to hit per turn is allowed
Bolt Pistol
Artifcer Armour
Frag Studded artificer armour ( counts as Articer armour and Frag Grenades)
Raven Flight Pack
Basically a pair of ultra low density mechanical wings, these allow Corax to move as Jump Infanrty, but still embark on vehicles, counting as 2 models. if the vehicle can actually carry JI, eg, Stormravens, the he counts as one.

Special Rules
ATSKNF
IC
EW
Acute Senses
Hit and Run
Combat Tactics
Chapter Tactics (see Captain Shrike)
See, but Remain, Unseen
Flight of the Raven
Corax does not Scatter when deep striking. Further more, he may assault on the turn he does so, but only if he is alone. if he has joined a unit the back draft from ther JP, the phasing out of the Warp or whatever, else, leaves his squad disorientated and he is wrong footed to charge. Furthermore, when conducting a Death or Glory, he may do one of the following.

Strike against the Side(top) armour, to represent him flying up them slashing down.
If he fails to stop the tank, he may escape on a 5+. If successful, place him within 12" of his last position using the DS rules. if this situation he scatters 3D6", and may not move, run or Assault in his next turn.

Fulgrim- 700pts.
WS- 8
BS- 6
S- 6
T- 6
W- 4
I- 8
A- 4
Ld- 10
Sv- 2+/4++

Wargear:
Either:
-Firesword- Power weapon, can make a shooting attack with the following profile:
Range: Template, S6 AP3, Assault 1
-Laeran Blade- Power weapon, inflicts Instant Death.
-Anatheme- Power weapon, always hits on a 2+, always wounds on a 2+.

Bolt Pistol.
Artificier Armour.
The Emperor's Aquila- confers a 4++ save.
Frag and Krak grenades.

Special Rules:
IC
EW
ATSKNF
Combat Tactics
Furious Charge

Perfectionist- Can re-roll all failed to hit and to wound.

Phoenician- When a member of a unit that Fulgrim has joined takes a wound in combat, Fulgrim can make an attack after all other attacks (one for each wound taken by the unit)

Is this before or after he becomes a 4 armed DP?

And for ther record, he didn't use the Anatheme. in the novel he

I like the Phoenician rule on fulgrim, 4 more primarchs to go.

Lorgar, Prophet of the Chaos Gods - 600 points

WS BS S T W I A LD Sv
6 6 6 5 5 6 4 10 2+

Dark Crozius - This is a Crozius, which gives the bearer +d6 attack in CC

Bolt Pistol

Artificer Armour

Frag and Krak Grenades

Special Rules

Chaos Protection - Lorgar gains a 4+ invulnerable save

Favor of the gods - Lorgar and any unit he is with benefit from the warptime psychic power, which always counts as being in effect without casting, and cannot be nullified.

Bearer of the Word - All units withing 18' inches of Lorgar benefit from the Furious Charge and Fearless rules, and +1 attack in close combat.

Very good. Perturabo, Dorn and Khan.

Deadshot wrote:Is this before or after he becomes a 4 armed DP?

And for ther record, he didn't use the Anatheme. in the novel he

Spoiler:

Implaed the statue of the Emperor, along with its maker, on the blade. Then the girl the guy loves comes along, and impales herself. Fulgrim is surprised, and leaves them there.

He apparently takes it back though, since he ripped Guilliman's neck out with it.

Just a question, for Deadshot, as well as the others who are carrying this thread. Caution: I am a Raven Guard fanboy, so the following may be irrational.

How are you basing these off of fluff? Both the Raven and the Night Haunter were basically tied for fastest Primarch ever, and I would put both their initiatives as 10's. From my reading of the various books, most primarchs would have had an initiative of 8 or higher. Even the slowest of primarchs, Ferrus and Mortarion, were still light years ahead of their leigionaires.

Also, a couple of ticks with the general wargear choices among the various Primarchs. Having read this thread, it seems like there is a lot of glory dumped on the more known Primarchs like Robute Guilliman and Leman Russ and Sanguinious (who incidentally have more fluff and whose chapters get more air time in the various rule books). In your rules, Russ and Guiliman have lists of awesome unique wargear, and Corax and Lorgar get bolt pistols. Why do these primarchs get the same equipment that their initiate scouts get? It seems Corax is just a Captain Shrike with better stats, and Sanguinious is pure glory, wears glory armor, has a glory halo, and has a glory spear.

This leaves four of your primarchs who are awesome (both force amplifiers AND death star units on their own) and the rest just seem like you are filling in the gaps with half-baked ideas so you can say you have a full list of primarchs. Many of these are just Space Marine Captains with better stat lines and a rule or two.

I personally think that you need to crank up the power and points for most of these guys, especially if you are taking a fluff-based approach as is claimed in multiple posts. In the fluff, these Primarchs are straight up amazing. Maybe you can consider having a stat that is above 10, even? Try and find a fanboy for each chapter who can defend the primarchs that don't already have advocates among the current posters. The hard part of what you are doing is that nobody is a fanboy of all the primarchs, so each one will try and make thier primarch better than all the others. I am overcome with a desire to shout out how Corax has been wronged by the malicious people on DakkaDakka, and feel the need to right this terrible wrong. I can rationally analyze this and realize that that is unlikely, but the fanboy in me rages away anyways.

Sorry if I came across as hostile, fanboyism is a daily struggle for me. I am very passionate about the fluff, and this gets me in trouble often. I am not trying to accuse anybody of anything, even though part of me really really wants to. I do think this primarch project is a good idea, and want to contribute, but not in a negative way. If the above is tolerable for everyone, then I fell safe contributing, but if anyone feels that I have been too hostile, I will go back to lurking like I do.

Thank you for your constructive criticism OmegaStriker if you wish (seeing that you are a raven guard fan boy) to post rules for corax feel free to do so and i will put them on the main page to possibly replace the other ruleset if the people on this thread agree that it is better.

Also please make a list of all the primarchs you think are under powered or not correct and i will personally try to fix them with help from the creators.

OmegaStriker wrote:Just a question, for Deadshot, as well as the others who are carrying this thread. Caution: I am a Raven Guard fanboy, so the following may be irrational.

How are you basing these off of fluff? Both the Raven and the Night Haunter were basically tied for fastest Primarch ever, and I would put both their initiatives as 10's. From my reading of the various books, most primarchs would have had an initiative of 8 or higher. Even the slowest of primarchs, Ferrus and Mortarion, were still light years ahead of their leigionaires.

Also, a couple of ticks with the general wargear choices among the various Primarchs. Having read this thread, it seems like there is a lot of glory dumped on the more known Primarchs like Robute Guilliman and Leman Russ and Sanguinious (who incidentally have more fluff and whose chapters get more air time in the various rule books). In your rules, Russ and Guiliman have lists of awesome unique wargear, and Corax and Lorgar get bolt pistols. Why do these primarchs get the same equipment that their initiate scouts get? It seems Corax is just a Captain Shrike with better stats, and Sanguinious is pure glory, wears glory armor, has a glory halo, and has a glory spear.

This leaves four of your primarchs who are awesome (both force amplifiers AND death star units on their own) and the rest just seem like you are filling in the gaps with half-baked ideas so you can say you have a full list of primarchs. Many of these are just Space Marine Captains with better stat lines and a rule or two.

I personally think that you need to crank up the power and points for most of these guys, especially if you are taking a fluff-based approach as is claimed in multiple posts. In the fluff, these Primarchs are straight up amazing. Maybe you can consider having a stat that is above 10, even? Try and find a fanboy for each chapter who can defend the primarchs that don't already have advocates among the current posters. The hard part of what you are doing is that nobody is a fanboy of all the primarchs, so each one will try and make thier primarch better than all the others. I am overcome with a desire to shout out how Corax has been wronged by the malicious people on DakkaDakka, and feel the need to right this terrible wrong. I can rationally analyze this and realize that that is unlikely, but the fanboy in me rages away anyways.

Sorry if I came across as hostile, fanboyism is a daily struggle for me. I am very passionate about the fluff, and this gets me in trouble often. I am not trying to accuse anybody of anything, even though part of me really really wants to. I do think this primarch project is a good idea, and want to contribute, but not in a negative way. If the above is tolerable for everyone, then I fell safe contributing, but if anyone feels that I have been too hostile, I will go back to lurking like I do.

I agree that some of our Primarchs have been more of an outline, but honestly the only Primarch I feel I myself have made bland is Mortarion, who is one of my favorite Primarchs, My reason for this is, how would you have me change plague marines (Death Guard)?

I felt that rather than having Lorgar as a super beast by himself, his abilities to spread the word to his legion were acceptable in that he boosts those around him, rather than himself, a whole Squad with warptime, and an 18 inch FC and +1 attack, with fearless, bubble, I felt this was good enough to represent his personal qualities. as for the bolt pistol, what do you want me to give to him? A plasma pistol? This doesn't strike as a big issue.. In the fluff has Lorgar wielded some supreme range weapon? If so, I would be happy to represent it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way guys, we should add Combat Tactics and ATSKNF to all of the Primarchs special rules.

Lord Magnus wrote:

I felt that rather than having Lorgar as a super beast by himself, his abilities to spread the word to his legion were acceptable in that he boosts those around him, rather than himself, a whole Squad with warptime, and an 18 inch FC and +1 attack, with fearless, bubble, I felt this was good enough to represent his personal qualities. as for the bolt pistol, what do you want me to give to him? A plasma pistol? This doesn't strike as a big issue.. In the fluff has Lorgar wielded some supreme range weapon? If so, I would be happy to represent it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way guys, we should add Combat Tactics and ATSKNF to all of the Primarchs special rules.

I think we should give lorgar a 3++ invulnerable save but other than that your rules are great.

combat tactics and atsknf on all the primarchs is a good idea.

The rerason is because, rather than have 1 person write the rules, where they are all in relation to each other, you have opinions.

I agree that Corax and Kurze shopuld be 10 Int. When I made my rules, as well as being uber one man death stars+++++, they were 1500pts, so I had to rethink.


Most of the Primarchs would be Int 8, but then DE and Eldar coming in with

" We are the fastest armies, and why don't we get the fastest stuff?"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the reason for Bolt Pistols is that it is a trade of.

Guilliman. I gave him powerfists, an AP stormbolter, and a Sternguard's gun. He has a power weapon. The trade off for his megre wargear is his tactical abilities, sort of a Deciever thath helps your side.

Corax is a close combat monster, with Rending Lighning claws, higher than average Int, and the ability to embark transports, as well as being an excellent anti Tank Shocker. he just flies up and chops the top of a Battle Wagon off. So in exchange, and also cause I can't see him holding a weapon in those hands, he has megre shooting abilities.



Perturabo (Traitor) 700

WS BS Str T W Int A Ld Sv
8 7 6 7 5 5 4 10 2+3++

Wargear
Stormhammers
These are a pair of Thunder Hammers that's hits count as Ordnance.
Terminator Armour
Servo Harness( see codex SM)

Iron Skin
Perturabo's Iron hard skin gives him +1 T, +1 wound, and a 3++ save, though he becomes SNP and -1 Int. Bonuses and penaltiesd already included in the profile.

Rule
Fearless
EW
MTC
Siege Master
Perturabo is a master of sige warfare.

In an army that includes him, Lance and melta Weapons become TL, and Ordnance weapons roll 3D6 instead of 2 when penetrating vehicle armour and pick the highest. Furthermore, when playing planetstrike, his armies may make an additional D3 Firestorm attacks, even if they arer the defender, to represent powerful AA weapons. Perturabo and his squad have the Tank Hunters special rules.

"Daemons, not gods"

In an army with Perturabo, you may not include any Summoned Daemons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Combat Tactics has 2 uses. One is Gulliman's own style. it even says in C:SM, that this is Gulliman's style.

The second is it is required for Chapter Tactics. As some of the Primarch's don't have Chapter Tactics, there is no fluff or reasonable way to give them cobat Tactics.


I am Russ, I want to run away. I fall back. Land Raider follows me, tanks shocks, I fall back. I can't regruop because of the Land Raider. I run off board.



As for ATSKNF, that has 2 useas. The first is granting No Retreat instead of dying in a Sweeping Advance. The second is auto regrouping if under half strength. as most of them are fearless anyway, there is no need for this other than completeness.

All of them should be fearless, but should also be able to fail a moral check if they want, representing a tactical retreat..

However, the Rules for CT say that a non-fearless unit may fall back. Which is why Chaplains( him and his squad fearless, so he doesn't lose iot), having it is pointless.

Or fall back in any case, actually, maybe hit and run would be better

So i take it off the primarchs apart from girlyman or ??

Maybe... I am not sure..

In response to perturabo i have one problem "Daemons, not gods"

In an army with Perturabo, you may not include any Obliterators, Possessed Marines, Summoned Daemons, or Possessed Vehicles other than Dreadnoughts.

Please explain

AFAIK, the IW believe the Chaos Gods are simply a powerful Daemon form, and therefore are not worthy of worship. Others, mainly Word Bearers and Fanatics such as World Eaters and Emperor's Children, may ally with their Patriarch's Daemons, but IMO, the IW should not. Therefore, anything that counts as a Daemon, Ie, Possessed, Oblits, and Summoned Daemons, as well as possessed vehicles.
Daemon Princes are not included because they are Iron Warriors, and powerful leaders which the IW would respect, or pay the price otherwise. Similarly, Dreadnoughts are ancient heros, so would be tolerated.


I understand that your confusion may arise from his more Loyalist Wargear, but I made a slight edit to it to fix that. I add (Traitor) after his name