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2012/02/15 20:19:45
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Brother Coa wrote:Then you should see our Facebook groups. Out of 2000 members I think 1500 don't like them at all. Same as with Dakka, we had thread about Ultras here some time ago, and the result was that many people find them boring or hate them. Rarely who respect them. Now mostly because of Matt and his "spiritual league" thing.
I think that they need to change poster chapter and redo the "greatest of them all" sentence since Ultramarines aren't greatest of them all at all.
Yes removing that one sentence will fix it all. And while we are at it... all fans of sports teams need to stop proclaiming their teams are #1 ... since they are in fact, likely not.
Brother Coa wrote:Then you should see our Facebook groups. Out of 2000 members I think 1500 don't like them at all. Same as with Dakka, we had thread about Ultras here some time ago, and the result was that many people find them boring or hate them. Rarely who respect them. Now mostly because of Matt and his "spiritual league" thing.
I think that they need to change poster chapter and redo the "greatest of them all" sentence since Ultramarines aren't greatest of them all at all.
And who should that be? The Space Sues perhaps? The Emo Angels? Or perhaps the Rainbow Warriors? You can find much to complain about every single major spacemarine chapter.
The Ultramarines are the posterboys because they are the archetypical codex adherent chapter. Since most spacemarine chapters adhere to the codex, which was written by the Ultramarine's primarch,
this makes the Ultramarines ideal posterboys.
The Ultramarines fluff is, with a few exceptions ( the "but they can never be Ultramarines" part in the codex could have been written differently ) rather tame compared with the sheer amount of
idiocy we find in the Bloodangels, the Grey Knights and the Spacewolfes books.
2012/02/15 20:29:54
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
I am not sure Tigurius's feat of sheer psy awesomeness is beat by anyone save Draigo as far as space marine feats go. The Sanguinor showing up and saving the day like cpt planet however might be close.
The enemy of my enemy is a bastard so lets kill him too.
2012/02/15 20:39:06
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Ultramarines I think got hate because 1) they are pushed in the fluff which makes them "boring" 2) because they are pushed in the fluff they are a surrogate to hating on GW 3) for several editions they were the box or cam covetous so new players often played them and vets tease noobs
It's funny though, in 5th edition because of the arguable better MEQ armies than vanilla marines, and Vulkan and Lysander being the favorite of codex space marines you don't see nearly as many pure ultramarine armies these days. As a result I am often noticed and complimented on my fully painted pure ulatramarine army
2012/02/15 20:44:55
Subject: Re:Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Durza wrote:The major reason would be, as others have said, the fluff. It's hard to stay interesting when you are apparently the paragon of marines, and even harder with the sheer volume of fluff given to them. And besides that, in the current codex they have like five special characters. Too many.
Also, their name is a double pun. Bad.
Maze wrote: That's why I play SW. They're like the Batman of 40k.
Spoiler:
Why do you say space wolves but have a picture of a night lord?
I think ultramarines are disliked for their fluff and uninterestingness. Sure, a well painted ultramarine force can look good, but its really not that interesting.
He did not say the SW thing, Maze did. And he showed the picture because Night Lords are closer to Batman the Space Wolves.
Lokas wrote:...Enemy of my enemy is kind of a dick, so let's kill him too.
"Without judgement there is no obstacle to action." ~ Kommander Oleg Strakhov
2012/02/15 20:50:25
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
"The Ultramarines are undoubtedly the best Space Marines ever. Yes, really! Thanks to the heritage of Guilliman and their myriad heroic deeds, the Ultramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines. With a few fringe exceptions... all Space Marine chapters want to be like the Ultramarines and recognize Marneus Calgar as their spiritual liege." - Matt Ward, Ultramarines player, codex writer.
"Indeed, it was Guilliman who would have the greatest lasting effect upon the now leaderless Blood Angels. Through the Codex Astartes - that great treatise on the restructuring and ordering of the Space Marines - Guilliman's legacy would reshape the Blood Angels Legion into the Chapters that defend the Imperium to this day." - Matt Ward, Ultramarines player, codex writer, Codex: Blood Angels, p. 7.
"Chapters [not descended from Guilliman's geneseed] are disciples who owe their genetic inheritance to another Primarch, but follow the Codex Astartes as keenly as their divergent heritage allows. While primarily composed of successor Chapters, this group also includes several Chapters of the First Founding - notably the Imperial Fists, White Scars and the Raven Guard. These chapters can never be Ultramarines, for their gene-seed is not that of Roboute Guilliman. Nevertheless, they will ever aspire to the standards and teachings of the great Primarch.
[Chapters who do not emulate the Ultramarines] are aberrants; chapters who, through quirk of gene-seed, mutation or stubbornness, eschew the Codex Astartes in favor of other structural and combat doctrines. Some, such as the Blood Angels and their successors, strive to be worthy of Guilliman's legacy, but their recalcitrant gene-seed drives them ever further from it. Others, such as the Space Wolves and the Black Templars, remain stubbornly independent, looking to their own founder's ways of war and caring little of how they fare in the eyes of others. These aberrant Chapters were always few in number and their presence diminishes with each passing decade, for their gene-seed is no longer the source of fresh Chapters." - Matt Ward, Ultramarines player, codex writer (unfortunately), Codex: Space Marines, 5th Edition, p/ 25. (What, you thought we made this up ourselves? Also note that the Black Templars actually outnumber the Ultramarines at a ratio of at least 6:1)
It's not that I hate Ultramarines, it's what Mat Ward said about/did to them.
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
2012/02/15 21:09:58
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
King Pariah wrote:"The Ultramarines are undoubtedly the best Space Marines ever. Yes, really! Thanks to the heritage of Guilliman and their myriad heroic deeds, the Ultramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines. With a few fringe exceptions... all Space Marine chapters want to be like the Ultramarines and recognize Marneus Calgar as their spiritual liege." - Matt Ward, Ultramarines player, codex writer.
"Indeed, it was Guilliman who would have the greatest lasting effect upon the now leaderless Blood Angels. Through the Codex Astartes - that great treatise on the restructuring and ordering of the Space Marines - Guilliman's legacy would reshape the Blood Angels Legion into the Chapters that defend the Imperium to this day." - Matt Ward, Ultramarines player, codex writer, Codex: Blood Angels, p. 7.
"Chapters [not descended from Guilliman's geneseed] are disciples who owe their genetic inheritance to another Primarch, but follow the Codex Astartes as keenly as their divergent heritage allows. While primarily composed of successor Chapters, this group also includes several Chapters of the First Founding - notably the Imperial Fists, White Scars and the Raven Guard. These chapters can never be Ultramarines, for their gene-seed is not that of Roboute Guilliman. Nevertheless, they will ever aspire to the standards and teachings of the great Primarch.
[Chapters who do not emulate the Ultramarines] are aberrants; chapters who, through quirk of gene-seed, mutation or stubbornness, eschew the Codex Astartes in favor of other structural and combat doctrines. Some, such as the Blood Angels and their successors, strive to be worthy of Guilliman's legacy, but their recalcitrant gene-seed drives them ever further from it. Others, such as the Space Wolves and the Black Templars, remain stubbornly independent, looking to their own founder's ways of war and caring little of how they fare in the eyes of others. These aberrant Chapters were always few in number and their presence diminishes with each passing decade, for their gene-seed is no longer the source of fresh Chapters." - Matt Ward, Ultramarines player, codex writer (unfortunately), Codex: Space Marines, 5th Edition, p/ 25. (What, you thought we made this up ourselves? Also note that the Black Templars actually outnumber the Ultramarines at a ratio of at least 6:1)
It's not that I hate Ultramarines, it's what Mat Ward said about/did to them.
Actually Ward plays Necrons, not Space Marines, I heard.
The Ultramarines were described as "the greatest" Chapter since 2nd Edition. This is not Matt Ward's invention. Though he was not very delicate in describing that.
The Crusader wrote:Codex: Space Marines isn't that, Its Codex: ULTRASMURFS!!!!
Matt Ward=Ultramarine no. 1 Fanboy
Codex: Space Marines=Matt Ward given the opportunity to write a Codex that is to include Ultramarines.
You wonder why we hate Ultramarines? We hate them because we don't like Matt Ward trying to ram Blue SM w****rs down our damn throats thats why!
'S why I chose Templars:
Girlyman: "OK this is my Uber Control-Freak Book of Ultrasmurf Ass-kissing..."
Sigsmund: "......."
Takes his copy and fires it into a star.
I imagine it was not quite like that, considering that most of the Codex did not appear to be mandatory.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/02/15 21:39:07
2012/02/15 21:41:23
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
For me the hate towards them stem from how the Codex Space Marines looks like a crappy piece of propaganda. Also it all but states: "This is the Imperial Fist, Germanic perverts, we give them a nice nod, but we think of them as stubborn and stupid."
Sorry smurfs, the Fists is something you can never be, interesting.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
2012/02/15 21:45:08
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Beaviz81 wrote:For me the hate towards them stem from how the Codex Space Marines looks like a crappy piece of propaganda. Also it all but states: "This is the Imperial Fist, Germanic perverts, we give them a nice nod, but we think of them as stubborn and stupid."
Sorry smurfs, the Fists is something you can never be, interesting.
Where is it stated that the Imperial Fists are stubborn and stupid in the Codex? More however the Fists being stubborn and intractable has always been a defining part of their character. Would you rather the Codex state that the Fists are not stubborn?
2012/02/15 21:47:29
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
King Pariah wrote:"The Ultramarines are undoubtedly the best Space Marines ever. Yes, really! Thanks to the heritage of Guilliman and their myriad heroic deeds, the Ultramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines. With a few fringe exceptions... all Space Marine chapters want to be like the Ultramarines and recognize Marneus Calgar as their spiritual liege." - Matt Ward, Ultramarines player, codex writer.
"Indeed, it was Guilliman who would have the greatest lasting effect upon the now leaderless Blood Angels. Through the Codex Astartes - that great treatise on the restructuring and ordering of the Space Marines - Guilliman's legacy would reshape the Blood Angels Legion into the Chapters that defend the Imperium to this day." - Matt Ward, Ultramarines player, codex writer, Codex: Blood Angels, p. 7.
"Chapters [not descended from Guilliman's geneseed] are disciples who owe their genetic inheritance to another Primarch, but follow the Codex Astartes as keenly as their divergent heritage allows. While primarily composed of successor Chapters, this group also includes several Chapters of the First Founding - notably the Imperial Fists, White Scars and the Raven Guard. These chapters can never be Ultramarines, for their gene-seed is not that of Roboute Guilliman. Nevertheless, they will ever aspire to the standards and teachings of the great Primarch.
[Chapters who do not emulate the Ultramarines] are aberrants; chapters who, through quirk of gene-seed, mutation or stubbornness, eschew the Codex Astartes in favor of other structural and combat doctrines. Some, such as the Blood Angels and their successors, strive to be worthy of Guilliman's legacy, but their recalcitrant gene-seed drives them ever further from it. Others, such as the Space Wolves and the Black Templars, remain stubbornly independent, looking to their own founder's ways of war and caring little of how they fare in the eyes of others. These aberrant Chapters were always few in number and their presence diminishes with each passing decade, for their gene-seed is no longer the source of fresh Chapters." - Matt Ward, Ultramarines player, codex writer (unfortunately), Codex: Space Marines, 5th Edition, p/ 25. (What, you thought we made this up ourselves? Also note that the Black Templars actually outnumber the Ultramarines at a ratio of at least 6:1)
It's not that I hate Ultramarines, it's what Mat Ward said about/did to them.
Actually Ward plays Necrons, not Space Marines, I heard.
The Ultramarines were described as "the greatest" Chapter since 2nd Edition. This is not Matt Ward's invention. Though he was not very delicate in describing that.
The Crusader wrote:Codex: Space Marines isn't that, Its Codex: ULTRASMURFS!!!!
Matt Ward=Ultramarine no. 1 Fanboy
Codex: Space Marines=Matt Ward given the opportunity to write a Codex that is to include Ultramarines.
You wonder why we hate Ultramarines? We hate them because we don't like Matt Ward trying to ram Blue SM w****rs down our damn throats thats why!
'S why I chose Templars:
Girlyman: "OK this is my Uber Control-Freak Book of Ultrasmurf Ass-kissing..."
Sigsmund: "......."
Takes his copy and fires it into a star.
I imagine it was not quite like that, considering that most of the Codex did not appear to be mandatory.
And I have a strong dislike for what he did to Crons as well. But I don't see how him playing Crons makes any difference or justify anything about the Ultramarines he said or did. I'm okay with them being the Imperium poster boys, hell, it makes sense considering they suffered the least casualties in the HH hence why many people would know them in the 40k universe. It's when you start saying stuff like "Oh, everyone aspires to be like Ultramarines but can never be them, or that chapters divergent to the codex astartes are clinging on for survival (definitely not true with Black Templars).
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
2012/02/15 21:48:49
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Gree wrote:
Actually Ward plays Necrons, not Space Marines, I heard.
Ward played with Necrons unti lhe was beat by ultramrine player in 3'rd edition. Now he is playing Ultramarines.
The Ultramarines were described as "the greatest" Chapter since 2nd Edition. This is not Matt Ward's invention. Though he was not very delicate in describing that.
I very much doubt that, if Ultramariens are "greatest of them all" then what are Grey Knights and Custodes?
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
2012/02/15 21:51:38
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Gree wrote:
Actually Ward plays Necrons, not Space Marines, I heard.
Ward played with Necrons unti lhe was beat by ultramrine player in 3'rd edition. Now he is playing Ultramarines.
The Ultramarines were described as "the greatest" Chapter since 2nd Edition. This is not Matt Ward's invention. Though he was not very delicate in describing that.
I very much doubt that, if Ultramariens are "greatest of them all" then what are Grey Knights and Custodes?
Well the gk as per the new dex states that the emperor felt he needed a force to fight chaos and be resistant to their charms. yada yada yada.. It never states they were the greatest sm. All it says is theyre designed to fight chaos.
The enemy of my enemy is a bastard so lets kill him too.
2012/02/15 21:53:57
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
2012/02/15 21:54:07
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Ultramarines are best i one regard: they are the most civil and tactical Marines in the Imeperium.
Saying that Ultramarine is better in combat then Grey Knight or Adeptus Custodes is playing stupid.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
King Pariah wrote:^That, and Custodes aren't marines...
You are right - they are advanced version of Space Marines - even better then Ultramarines.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/15 21:54:37
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
2012/02/15 21:55:50
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
King Pariah wrote:I imagine it was not quite like that, considering that most of the Codex did not appear to be mandatory.
And I have a strong dislike for what he did to Crons as well. But I don't see how him playing Crons makes any difference or justify anything about the Ultramarines he said or did. I'm okay with them being the Imperium poster boys, hell, it makes sense considering they suffered the least casualties in the HH hence why many people would know them in the 40k universe. It's when you start saying stuff like "Oh, everyone aspires to be like Ultramarines but can never be them, or that chapters divergent to the codex astartes are clinging on for survival (definitely not true with Black Templars).
Well, Ward is essentially just rephrasing poorly an earlier statement. His worse offense was the White Dwarf interview.
Read the following statements and see whether they may actually amount to the same. One of them is canonical since the earliest days of 2nd Edition and has never bothered anyone, the other one was made in a frivolous manner in a magazine article.
"Most Chapters adhere largely to the tenets of the Codex Astartes, with only a few rare examples deviating completely from it."
and
"All Chapters want to be like the Ultramarines."
Can you see a similarity? It is like saying either "the Space Wolves are one of the most active Chapters and have distinguished themselves in many battles" and "the Space Wolves kick a lot of xeno butt."
Brother Coa wrote:
Gree wrote:
Actually Ward plays Necrons, not Space Marines, I heard.
Ward played with Necrons unti lhe was beat by ultramrine player in 3'rd edition. Now he is playing Ultramarines.
The Ultramarines were described as "the greatest" Chapter since 2nd Edition. This is not Matt Ward's invention. Though he was not very delicate in describing that.
I very much doubt that, if Ultramariens are "greatest of them all" then what are Grey Knights and Custodes?
"(...) As fate would have it, the Ultramarines were therefor largely untouched by the fighting of the Horus Heresy. Other loyal Space Marine Legion had lost thousands of troops during the fighting, and half of the original Legions had sided with Horus. As a result the number of Space Marines left was very few, yet never were they more needed.
Everywhere the enemies of mankind prepared to attack. Many worlds remained in the grip of Chaos. Into this breach stepped Roboute Guilliman and the Ultramarines. Always the largest Legion, the Ultramarines found themselves divided and dispatched all over the Imperium in a desparate effort to stem the tide of the unrest.
The Ultramarines successfully held the Imperium together during a time of intense danger. Macragge was able to supply new recruits at such a rate that before long the Ultramarines alone accounted for more than half the total number of Space Marines, and few were the systems where their heroism went unnoticed."- 5th Edition Codex Space Marines, p. 13
There are worlds that have legends of Leman Russ and his wolf warriors. There are worlds that tell legends of noble Sanguinius. But the deeds of Guilliman and the Ultramarines are known almost throughout the entire Imperium.
That was in part due to fate, as the Ultramarines simple had the manpower to fulfill that role during the scouring. But then it was the same fatefull circumstances that had them miss out on the Battle for Terra. And one could say that it was not so much fate, but due to a ploy by Horus. Also, Guilliman's recruitment system seemed to have helped their efforts a great deal, so it can be at least in part attributed to their own traits. If you are an Imperial Official, you might know that most Marine chapters follow the Codex Astartes and that Guilliman wrote that. Guilliman also reorganized the Guard and Navy, so if you are a Guard and Navy officer you might know about Guilliman’s works more than Vulkan or Corax.
Meanwhile the Grey Knights are mean to be super-secret and the Custodes are technically not Marines.
So it is not really fallacious to say that in the view of the majority of the Imperium the Ultramarines Legion was the most legendary.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/02/15 21:57:15
2012/02/15 21:56:30
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
King Pariah wrote:^That, and Custodes aren't marines...
You are right - they are advanced version of Space Marines - even better then Ultramarines.
That I'll agree with, as seen with the culling of the Thunder Warrior which the Custodes were the only ones capable of doing after the Emperor conquered Terra.
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
2012/02/15 21:57:36
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Brother Coa wrote:Ultramarines are best i one regard: they are the most civil and tactical Marines in the Imeperium.
Saying that Ultramarine is better in combat then Grey Knight or Adeptus Custodes is playing stupid.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
King Pariah wrote:^That, and Custodes aren't marines...
You are right - they are advanced version of Space Marines - even better then Ultramarines.
Except that custodes are trained for 1 on 1 fights not open warfare. GK use shock troops squad based battles which is not typical of open warfare. Smurfs would have much more exp conducting open warefare even if 1 on 1 were inferior.
The enemy of my enemy is a bastard so lets kill him too.
2012/02/15 21:59:33
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Gree. The crappy part about the Imperial Fists. They hold on to a position even when losses mounts due to them being so stubborn. Still I care as much for the Smurfs as much as I care for the Tau, both I regard with a yawn, then I tosses the book out of the window and forget everything I have learned about them.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
2012/02/15 22:01:21
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Beaviz81 wrote:Gree. The crappy part about the Imperial Fists. They hold on to a position even when losses mounts due to them being so stubborn.
That part was from Index Astartes Imperial Fists, the Fists’s own article. The Codex was simply rephrasing it. Is the Fists’ own articles now propaganda?
2012/02/15 22:02:49
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Whatever Gree, I don't really care much to discuss this. Boring much you know, and I stated what rankled me the most with the Smurfs, I really doesn't care if that was liked or not.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
2012/02/15 22:04:00
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Brother Coa wrote:Ultramarines are best i one regard: they are the most civil and tactical Marines in the Imeperium.
I'd disagree on both points. Salamanders are more civil, regularly interacting with humanity on a personal level.
And the Ultramarines have a problem in which they get into situations where they stubbornly adhere to the Codex Astartes, which can cause rifts within the ranks or complete disasters.
Beaviz81 wrote:Whatever Gree, I don't really care much to discuss this. Boring much you know, and I stated what rankled me the most with the Smurfs, I really doesn't care if that was liked or not.
Well it’s one thing it dislike the Ultramarines, it’s another to dislike them for a nonexistent reason or a reason taken out of context from an entirely separate piece of fluff.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
infinite_array wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:Ultramarines are best i one regard: they are the most civil and tactical Marines in the Imeperium.
I'd disagree on both points. Salamanders are more civil, regularly interacting with humanity on a personal level.
And the Ultramarines have a problem in which they get into situations where they stubbornly adhere to the Codex Astartes, which can cause rifts within the ranks or complete disasters.
I’m not sure how the latter would cause problems with interacting with the civilian government. I assume you are referring to the latter as part of McNeill’s works. I take those books with a grain of salt, personally since they contain many contradictions to previously established fluff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/15 22:06:11
2012/02/15 22:07:52
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Ah, sorry. The second part was referring to the 'tactical' aspect. I wouldn't consider it good 'tactics' to have your Battle-Brothers tattling on you after you just saved their genehanced butts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/15 22:09:11
infinite_array wrote:Ah, sorry. The second part was referring to the 'tactical' aspect. I wouldn't consider it good 'tactics' to have your Battle-Brothers tattling on you after you just saved their genehanced butts.
I assume you are referring to Leandros reporting Titus? That really has little to do with tactics, it's more like internal police.
2012/02/15 22:18:16
Subject: Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?
Honestly, I go off from 'Mr. Ultramarine' himself, Graham McNeil. Sure, they're BL books, but we still get plenty of examples where someone argues against an action being taken, because it goes against the Codex.
infinite_array wrote:Honestly, I go off from 'Mr. Ultramarine' himself, Graham McNeil. Sure, they're BL books, but we still get plenty of examples where someone argues against an action being taken, because it goes against the Codex.
Well that’s the problem, I honestly consider McNeill to be a very poor writer of the Ultramarines, honestly worse than Ward himself. Frankly I can point out many aspects of his novels that violate studio fluff or simply make no sense.