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Yeah, that last bit worries me a tiny bit, but then again, lots of people will go in, roll for red thirst, and place accordingly, without being as likely to worry about not having a place for their HQ, as unless you had Astorath in your list, or even if you do, how often do people ever have all their troops choices succumb?

But yeah....it still worries me.

mmm didnt see anything in the faq saying ravens are fliers.... /sadpanda

The Red Thirst IC thing seems so weird, since none of the ICs in the codex have the The Red Thirst special rule.

Zid wrote:mmm didnt see anything in the faq saying ravens are fliers.... /sadpanda

Pretty sure this is listed in the back of the Rulebook since all Unit types have now been revised and the GK FAQ makes no mention of how Paladins are characters yet the rulebook says they are.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:The Red Thirst IC thing seems so weird, since none of the ICs in the codex have the The Red Thirst special rule.

I've been looking into it and when you read Red Thirst it says that the entire unit gains FC and Fearless. Now in the rulebook when an IC joins a squad he is considered like part of the unit and essentially is just another model in the unit that is a character. So once I've deployed an IC within a unit of ASM or another squad he's considered part of the Unit. When the unit gains Red Thirst the IC has it as well. So if the Assault Marines that have my Sanguinary Priest gain Red Thirst so does my Priest and my Priest can only join squads that rolled a 1 for Red Thirst or Death Company.


Today I played some 6th Edition games at 500 points and I really felt the hit on FNP. Its awesome that we get it on Power Weapons and such, but it sucks that its only 5+. Our marines die like flies now to anything and everything. FNP used to be scary. Now not so much. Also Furious Charge losing the +1 Initiative was a harsh blow. I lost so many marines simply because I lost that +1 initiative and I now go at the same with other Power Weapons. Its just awful. The I10 attack with the Jump Packs doesn't really do much either since its only 1 attack. So far we seem pretty balanced, but our special abilities got nerfed a bit. Hopefully I can use DC soon.

I am currently running a BA/IG hybrid list for fluff games, but I think BA got buffed. Shield + HP = Tough tanks. I might give my VV a try. My custom unit has two axes, two swords and a hammer(Built in 5th when weapon models didn't matter). Expensive for a punishment unit, but it could be a lot of fun.

I went to the GW today and had two test games, and the Sanguinary Guard really do benefit against the nerf on power *swords* - mind you, they still have to watch out for axes and fists and the like, as well as shooting, but with the change to dangerous terrain (my BA can get saves if they fail dangerous terrain! Yay! No more death by trees haha) I just send them into cover and then pop them out to take care of the threats.

Very, very cool.

BA/IG is cool, but yeah...I'll see my options, I don't want to compromise the strength to try out allies if I can avoid it, but I would like to know what people have used for effective combos.


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.......well, so the sorta-ref said who was reading the rulebook to use. But he could be wrong. I'm pretty sure he was reading it right though, so fingers are crossed on that.

Red Comet wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:The Red Thirst IC thing seems so weird, since none of the ICs in the codex have the The Red Thirst special rule.

I've been looking into it and when you read Red Thirst it says that the entire unit gains FC and Fearless. Now in the rulebook when an IC joins a squad he is considered like part of the unit and essentially is just another model in the unit that is a character. So once I've deployed an IC within a unit of ASM or another squad he's considered part of the Unit. When the unit gains Red Thirst the IC has it as well. So if the Assault Marines that have my Sanguinary Priest gain Red Thirst so does my Priest and my Priest can only join squads that rolled a 1 for Red Thirst or Death Company.

Easy loop hole around this, don't start your ICs in your units. Have them join in the first turn!

So far, I am seeing major boosts to things that didn't use to be good. Sternguard, Devastators, Sang Guard, Death Co., Furioso Libbys, and my favorite... bikes. They got ridiculous with their jink move, combined with FNP that is only negated on S10, able to carry 2x Plasma and combi-plasma on Sgt. Blood Rodeo, here I come!

Thinking something like...

Meph
Libby on bike
2x Priest, 1 bike, 1 JP
3x Assault squads, 2x plasmas 1x meltas
2x 10 man bikes plasmas, mm attack bike

I like the idea of devastators though, I think having sky fire rule somewhere in the army is a MUST with all the cool rules flyers have. So missile launchers will be major!

J Mac wrote:

Red Comet wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:The Red Thirst IC thing seems so weird, since none of the ICs in the codex have the The Red Thirst special rule.

I've been looking into it and when you read Red Thirst it says that the entire unit gains FC and Fearless. Now in the rulebook when an IC joins a squad he is considered like part of the unit and essentially is just another model in the unit that is a character. So once I've deployed an IC within a unit of ASM or another squad he's considered part of the Unit. When the unit gains Red Thirst the IC has it as well. So if the Assault Marines that have my Sanguinary Priest gain Red Thirst so does my Priest and my Priest can only join squads that rolled a 1 for Red Thirst or Death Company.

Easy loop hole around this, don't start your ICs in your units. Have them join in the first turn!

So far, I am seeing major boosts to things that didn't use to be good. Sternguard, Devastators, Sang Guard, Death Co., Furioso Libbys, and my favorite... bikes. They got ridiculous with their jink move, combined with FNP that is only negated on S10, able to carry 2x Plasma and combi-plasma on Sgt. Blood Rodeo, here I come!

Thinking something like...

Meph
Libby on bike
2x Priest, 1 bike, 1 JP
3x Assault squads, 2x plasmas 1x meltas
2x 10 man bikes plasmas, mm attack bike

I like the idea of devastators though, I think having sky fire rule somewhere in the army is a MUST with all the cool rules flyers have. So missile launchers will be major!

Yeah I'm seeing a lot of options being open for BA players, and I have a feeling a unit of Devs is a good idea. But sanguinary guard and DC can work like a dream now, and that's...well, that's just beautiful.

Especially if you bother to use Death Masks and they work out XD

What was your loadout on the Sanguinary Guard Titan?

Also I never thought of that loophole...That's actually rather funny.

Well, you can make a lot of usage out of even just throwing a chapter banner onto them to give them a decent 4 attacks on the charge, which is enough to deal with most things aside from Termies.

I had a very small game for the first one, and they were bare, but they got gimped by seriously, bolter fire which scored ten wounds, they failed 3 2+ SAVES, I had them in an assault with a unit of banshees in the second, and they totally wrecked them, thanks to the power swords being AP3. They can totally work as general-purpose infantry blender, but I'd still obviously keep them away from terminators, even if they got a couple power fists and had death masks (cause those aren't that reliable). I am kinda wary about buying Death Masks unless you get Dante and put him in the unit (thus making them and any other Sanguinary guard troops, and therefore scoring units) - and you get the Death Mask of Sanguinius special ability as well for the beginning, as well as Hit-and-Run.


.....but yeah, I'd buy a chapter banner and add Dante, as he's a great HQ and has enough buffs to justify his points cost, plus he comes with a free upgrade to the unit as well (Cause death masks don't stack, after all :/)


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In short, artificer armour got a little light to shine on them with the limitations on power weapons. Even against squads that can have access to maybe one or two power fists, the guard can potentially just kill them, especially if you exploit the wound allocation (what I did in my first game today, taking out a power-fist-bearing CSM sgt)


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....ooh, and the chapter banner also obviously gives Dante a bonus attack, it's pretty great.

If you put a unit of HG in there though, I'd prefer to have the banner with them as I like to give them SS and make them a highly mobile deathstar.

Titan Atlas wrote:
.....but yeah, I'd buy a chapter banner and add Dante, as he's a great HQ and has enough buffs to justify his points cost, plus he comes with a free upgrade to the unit as well (Cause death masks don't stack, after all :/)

Ooo, Death Masks with the Command-#2 warlord trait!!!

J Mac wrote:

Titan Atlas wrote:
.....but yeah, I'd buy a chapter banner and add Dante, as he's a great HQ and has enough buffs to justify his points cost, plus he comes with a free upgrade to the unit as well (Cause death masks don't stack, after all :/)

Ooo, Death Masks with the Command-#2 warlord trait!!!

...omg clever!

I forgot to mention that tac squads got a boost obviously. However, with tac squads, Brother Corbulo is a beast! FNP(2+) and he will sit at the very front of that tac squad and absorb everything! I think drop pods got a big boost in this sense, especially with overwatch.

oh yeah............oh yeah, totally forgot about Corbulo, his FNP is really great, really really great actually.


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Especially when I remember that it protects against everything but ID...which is awesomesauce

Until someone shoots you with meltaguns and bolters, and says to make the meltagun saves first, and he dies to ID.

With regards to allies, I have thought of Tau.

Bear in mind, that I haven't checked the points cost of this Tau element yet.

How about

One Commander Crisis Suit (You know the guy with the plasma kit out)
One unit of Broadsides
Cheapest Troop Possible.

The FA and HS sections filled with Predators is still a viable option, since glancing hits will be ignored and so they will shoot more often than in the 5th ed. The area of silencing guns via glancing hits is gone.

Spellbound wrote:Until someone shoots you with meltaguns and bolters, and says to make the meltagun saves first, and he dies to ID.

Yeah but that's pretty reasonably manageable.

wuestenfux wrote:The FA and HS sections filled with Predators is still a viable option, since glancing hits will be ignored and so they will shoot more often than in the 5th ed. The area of silencing guns via glancing hits is gone.

I agree here. I am hearing a lot of doom and gloom for vehicles in general. Howvever, I feel like the Predators are still viable. The glancing/hull point rules may actually make the baal with assault cannon more attractive while allowing the missile launcher devs to go in the heavy support slot for sky firing. If I understand all this correctly. I am still trying to wrap my head around this stuff.

Feldmarshal Goehring wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:The FA and HS sections filled with Predators is still a viable option, since glancing hits will be ignored and so they will shoot more often than in the 5th ed. The area of silencing guns via glancing hits is gone.

I agree here. I am hearing a lot of doom and gloom for vehicles in general. Howvever, I feel like the Predators are still viable. The glancing/hull point rules may actually make the baal with assault cannon more attractive while allowing the missile launcher devs to go in the heavy support slot for sky firing. If I understand all this correctly. I am still trying to wrap my head around this stuff.

I think we're on the right track, cause yeah, they can often weather a good number of shots but could be easily crippled by just a glance, and with Baals you send them into the nasty parts to really shoot 'em up, so getting glanced to death, while bad, is a worthy risk instead of being easily crippled one turn, and then just blown apart later on.


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.....ooh, course I'd try and absolutely make sure the front takes the fire.

Spellbound wrote:Until someone shoots you with meltaguns and bolters, and says to make the meltagun saves first, and he dies to ID.

Since he is an IC, he gets a 'Look Out Sir!' roll of a 2+ on that meltagun. So its not that bad, if you get unlucky and roll a 1, you could always reroll per the Far Seeing Eye

From what I've seen in a single game between two blood angels players:

Dante takes a hit since his axe is a master crafted power weapon. He gets a boost with the +1 S but suddenly he's hitting at I1 because of the unwieldy. Good thing is that he is now I2.

Astorath gets a buff since his power weapon has specialty rules. He gets AP3 for having a specialized power weapon with extra rules whereas Dante's is just a regular power weapon modeled as an Axe. Astorath hits at I5 and S6. Just don't assault terminators with him.

That's a perfect idea, but I do have one question:

Far Seeing Eye, I have only used it like, once, but it is only for rolls that Corbulo's controlling player makes, right? I don't know if I saw that clarified anywhere but it'd make sense if that were so.

rogueeyes wrote:Dante takes a hit since his axe is a master crafted power weapon. He gets a boost with the +1 S but suddenly he's hitting at I1 because of the unwieldy. Good thing is that he is now I2.

How so? In the FAQs they're saying that something that reduces someone's Initiative to a set value now takes precedence over any buffs. So he should be I1 always.

I had thought it was +2S for some reason but I'm fine with that, S6 on the charge is pretty encouraging with AP2. As for initiative...that can still be dealt with.

Titan Atlas wrote:

Feldmarshal Goehring wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:The FA and HS sections filled with Predators is still a viable option, since glancing hits will be ignored and so they will shoot more often than in the 5th ed. The area of silencing guns via glancing hits is gone.

I agree here. I am hearing a lot of doom and gloom for vehicles in general. Howvever, I feel like the Predators are still viable. The glancing/hull point rules may actually make the baal with assault cannon more attractive while allowing the missile launcher devs to go in the heavy support slot for sky firing. If I understand all this correctly. I am still trying to wrap my head around this stuff.

I think we're on the right track, cause yeah, they can often weather a good number of shots but could be easily crippled by just a glance, and with Baals you send them into the nasty parts to really shoot 'em up, so getting glanced to death, while bad, is a worthy risk instead of being easily crippled one turn, and then just blown apart later on.


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.....ooh, course I'd try and absolutely make sure the front takes the fire.

However, when moving forward with the Baals you need to protect the weaker side armor. Shooting a Predator in the front can be very frustrating for the enemy.

wuestenfux wrote:

Titan Atlas wrote:

Feldmarshal Goehring wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:The FA and HS sections filled with Predators is still a viable option, since glancing hits will be ignored and so they will shoot more often than in the 5th ed. The area of silencing guns via glancing hits is gone.

I agree here. I am hearing a lot of doom and gloom for vehicles in general. Howvever, I feel like the Predators are still viable. The glancing/hull point rules may actually make the baal with assault cannon more attractive while allowing the missile launcher devs to go in the heavy support slot for sky firing. If I understand all this correctly. I am still trying to wrap my head around this stuff.

I think we're on the right track, cause yeah, they can often weather a good number of shots but could be easily crippled by just a glance, and with Baals you send them into the nasty parts to really shoot 'em up, so getting glanced to death, while bad, is a worthy risk instead of being easily crippled one turn, and then just blown apart later on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
.....ooh, course I'd try and absolutely make sure the front takes the fire.

However, when moving forward with the Baals you need to protect the weaker side armor. Shooting a Predator in the front can be very frustrating for the enemy.

Precisely, just gotta be careful. Which can usually be done haha

Death Company are now one of the best troops choices in the game.

Relentless, Furious Charge, Feel No Pain and Rage add up to a 20 point monster that bust open pretty much anything it wants.

I'm not sure though, if full on assault is the way to go now. Boltgun armed DC seem to be the way forward as they will be able to gun down and assault my vic... I mean poor unfortunate opponents.

Only two weaknesses are that they can't claim objectives and they don't have special weapons. Still going to be insane to play against. Then there's the DC Dreadnought and Astorath - who has apparently become obscene in 6th, but I don't see how.

Puscifer wrote:Astorath - who has apparently become obscene in 6th, but I don't see how.

Yeah, I'm unsure about that too. His weapon is specialized and two-handed that makes them reroll successful invul saves and strikes at S6, but he does have artificer armour and a rosarius, a jump pack, and all the bonuses of a regular chaplain (which really make DC about as horribly brutal as they can get, rerolling hits and wounds after all) - Shadow of the Primarch is same as ever, but FC is a bit nerfed now.

When I write him all out though I kinda see what people are saying, he's great, especially with the better value of artificer armour now.

Puscifer wrote: Then there's the DC Dreadnought and Astorath - who has apparently become obscene in 6th, but I don't see how.

We'll start with DCDread. With Blood Fists, he has I4, S10, AP2 attacks. Rage gives him +2 attacks on the charge, Fleet gives him re-rolls on run/charge, he has modified built in extra armor and he can take a good amount of shooting weapons. Oh yeah, all for 125 points!

On to Astorath, I think the biggest one here is he removes the 0-1 Death Company limitation. DC are beasts now and have NO down side, other than their overcosted JPS which I'm sure some people will pay for now with the integration of 6th Ed. Fearless in 6th Ed got waaaay better than 5th. Units just automatically pass morale and pinning checks and ignore Fear. IIRC, they don't take fearless saves for losing combat anymore. So the fact that when he is included in a BAs force, units become fearless on a roll of 1-3 in the beginning of the game. His axe and his artificer armor is only icing on the cake.

If I missed anything, please point it out. I love seeing how much better we got