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Loki isn't Asgardian, remember?

Ok, but still, It was all technology that gave him his "magic"
And he is Asgardian.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, but still, It was all technology that gave him his "magic"
And he is Asgardian.

They never said his magic was technological. They said magic and technology were the same thing in Asgard. Thor could have been meaning that Asgardian Technology is magically derived/driven or that they hold the same significance in their society. The explanation about ancient humans thinking advanced technology was magical was given by humans and this one shows that humans have a hard time accepting something that doesn't fit their notions(see NP's character insistence on calling the Soulforge by a human technological name). Just because they happen to do the same thing doesn't mean they ARE the same or operate by the same means.

Thor 2 was awesome.

Looking forward to how they set up the inevitable Thor 3. Surtur perhaps?

 Platuan4th wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, but still, It was all technology that gave him his "magic"
And he is Asgardian.

They never said his magic was technological. They said magic and technology were the same thing in Asgard. Thor could have been meaning that Asgardian Technology is magically derived/driven or that they hold the same significance in their society. The explanation about ancient humans thinking advanced technology was magical was given by humans and this one shows that humans have a hard time accepting something that doesn't fit their notions(see NP's character insistence on calling the Soulforge by a human technological name). Just because they happen to do the same thing doesn't mean they ARE the same or operate by the same means.

They have vortex grenades, Lasers, Walls, power swords ARTILLERY, flying ships. It is clearly Technology not magic

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. (Clarke's 3rd law).

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, but still, It was all technology that gave him his "magic"
And he is Asgardian.

They never said his magic was technological. They said magic and technology were the same thing in Asgard. Thor could have been meaning that Asgardian Technology is magically derived/driven or that they hold the same significance in their society. The explanation about ancient humans thinking advanced technology was magical was given by humans and this one shows that humans have a hard time accepting something that doesn't fit their notions(see NP's character insistence on calling the Soulforge by a human technological name). Just because they happen to do the same thing doesn't mean they ARE the same or operate by the same means.

They have vortex grenades, Lasers, Walls, power swords ARTILLERY, flying ships. It is clearly Technology not magic

You've clearly determined that technology =/= magic, when to the Asgard, they're the same thing.

Look at Warmachine/Hordes/Iron Kingdoms to see an example of what I mean. Alchemical creations are magic turned into technology(such as gunpowder) and technology is used to created magical effects(Mechanika). It's a setting where magic and technology are often the same thing.

Just because it looks like a Laser doesn't mean it actually IS a laser. Their artillery and Lasers could very well be the Lumiarks from WHFB.

Tom Hiddleston wrote:Part of the backstory that we created was that Frigga was really the most attentive to Loki when he was a child. And Odin didn’t really know how to connect. He connected much more with Thor. They were sort of cut from the same cloth. And Frigga and Loki had this kind of beautiful, sensitive, more artistic relationship. And it was actually her who taught him all his magic.

I thought it would be nice if Frigga had placed some edifying reading for him and was trying to encourage Loki to spend his time learning new things. [....] So we thought he’d maybe be reading deeper into the science and basically some new magic.

Emphasis mine.

It's from this article interviewing Hiddleston, and he very specifically uses the word magic about Loki and Frigga while talking about his interactions with Alan Taylor.

 Sasori wrote:
Thor 2 was awesome.

Looking forward to how they set up the inevitable Thor 3. Surtur perhaps?

Spoiler:

The Infinity gauntlet is defiantly coming. They've been setting it up for a long time, and they have been setting it up progressivly as the movies have been coming a long. They are changing things up, as now the "Ether" and the Tesseract are gems. It's also very likely that the Gem in Loki's staff in the Avengers is also a gem. Guardians of the Galaxy is going to have some emphasis on this for sure.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, but still, It was all technology that gave him his "magic"
And he is Asgardian.

They never said his magic was technological. They said magic and technology were the same thing in Asgard. Thor could have been meaning that Asgardian Technology is magically derived/driven or that they hold the same significance in their society. The explanation about ancient humans thinking advanced technology was magical was given by humans and this one shows that humans have a hard time accepting something that doesn't fit their notions(see NP's character insistence on calling the Soulforge by a human technological name). Just because they happen to do the same thing doesn't mean they ARE the same or operate by the same means.

They have vortex grenades, Lasers, Walls, power swords ARTILLERY, flying ships. It is clearly Technology not magic

Hogun specifically calls Loki 'A master of magic' in the first movie, plus he does some stuff without seeming to use devices. He throws glowing green blades that dissolve into nothing in the first movie, plus his holograms are never been showed to be based on a device. Then there's him throwing objects around his cell in anger, again, without using a device.

Marvel have said magic is part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, they just haven't played with it much yet. They're waiting for phase 3 when they introduce Dr Strange.

Not to mention, he's not Asgardian. It's, you know, a pretty big plot point of the first movie.

Ok I get it, I was always under the impression that is was all just technology that looked like magic. I mean it does kinda look sci-fi-ish to me. Especially the dark elves.
Also, anyone else freaked out by the dark elf warriors?

In the first movie, didn't Thor himself say where he came from they (magic and technology) were one and the same?

 Breotan wrote:
In the first movie, didn't Thor himself say where he came from they (magic and technology) were one and the same?

3rd post on this page.

Also, yeah, the Dark Elf warriors were suitably freaky in their silent, faceless anonymity.

 whembly wrote:
Holy gak balls! Thor 2 was awesome.

Portman was fine...

Also, that 5 minute preview of Captain America... whoa.

Question for those who've seen it...

Spoiler:

The collector? Infinity Gauntlet time?

Thor 2 was good (although it may have been the company I was with that made it great!). I think the best part of Thor was when The only part I didn't like was

Don't click spoilers unless you hate being surprised.

The latter is why I am having a hard time not comparing Thor to too human.

Is anyone able to explain to me how the whole '9 realms' thing works?

I mean, ok, originally I figured, fine. "This is the territory that Asgard has claimed as its dominion / influence in this sector of space."

However, a lot of Thor 2 then goes on to specifically say, There are 9 realms, Jotunheim, Vanaheim, Midgard, Asgard and Svartheim are 5 of them.

Not only that, but they are tied in Yggdressil, which is the entire Universe - showing they aren't particularly 'near' each other.

So, basically. That's just left me confused.

9 different worlds that are accessible by the Bifrost Bridge. One houses the ice giants, one the dwarves, one the Dark Elves, one is the Underworld, I believe, ruled by Hela one is Earth, forgot the rest. Basically, they are worlds the gods of Valhalla can travel to by way of the bridge. Not sure if that helps or not, but I thought I'd give it a shot.

Yeah, different worlds, all tied together via the wormhole network of the Bifrost.

Asgard - home of the Aesir.
Vanaheim - home of the Vanir, close friends/allies of Asgard.
Midgard - Us.
Jotunheim - Frost Giants.
Muspelheim - Fire Giants.
Alfheim - Elves.
Svartalfheim - Dark Elves.
Hel - Realm of the dead, ruled by Hela.
Nidavellir - Dwarfs!!!

Plus there's also two other areas - Niffelheim (land of the dishonoured dead) and Valhalla (land of the honoured dead).

I just couldn't figure out why it's such a big deal.

There's more than 9 star systems / worlds in Marvel after all. I just couldn't work out what the relationship those 9 had to each other, aside from the Bifrost.

Taking a look at the Winter Soldier trailer again, I notice Black Widow playing sidekick... again.

Isn't it time for a Black Widow movie? I would love to see an origin story for her. Would also show that she's more than a sidekick, the tiny glimpses of her kicking ass in Avengers and Iron Man 2 isn't really enough. She NEEDS her own movie.

Actually Falcon is the sidekick in Cap 2.

I thought it was both Widow And Falcon as sidekicks in the next Cap.

I don't see Black Widow as a sidekick but I also don't want to see an entire movie devoted to her. The character currently works because it's in relation to interesting characters (Iron Man, The Whole Avenger Team, Captain America).

And technically she'd be the seasoned agent for Shield in a partnership between her and Cap

Thor 2 was very good, Tom Hiddleston does a great Loki. The only thing missing from the Cap trailer was the line "He says parachutes are for girls".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Compel wrote:
Is anyone able to explain to me how the whole '9 realms' thing works?

I mean, ok, originally I figured, fine. "This is the territory that Asgard has claimed as its dominion / influence in this sector of space."

However, a lot of Thor 2 then goes on to specifically say, There are 9 realms, Jotunheim, Vanaheim, Midgard, Asgard and Svartheim are 5 of them.

Not only that, but they are tied in Yggdressil, which is the entire Universe - showing they aren't particularly 'near' each other.

So, basically. That's just left me confused.

Think of the nine realms as less physical worlds, and more planes of existence. Yggdrasil, the world tree, is the connection of everything or the all, and each realm is a part of it. Think of them less as planets and more as realms of being. The Norse and Germanic peoples (and remember, these myths date back to at least 0-1 AD, as Roman writers talk about the Teutonic people and their gods by comparing them to Roman gods) certainly didn't say there was a massive tree sticking out of the Earth/Midgard in the sense of a literal tree, but believed Midgard/Earth to rest on one of the branches or arms of the tree. It could be thus seen as the biggest and best tree, or a tree is a good metaphor for what it is. Also realize they did not have telescopes or know about other planets in the solar system or in the universe as a whole.

Yggdrasil is thus all that is (the stars, the bands of the milky way, etc) and the Aurora Borealis was Bifrost, and the gods ascending/descending the 'tree'. So in the film the convergence could be seen as each of these planes of existence aligning perfectly such that they could be crossed or interact without the Bifrost.

Think of the 9 Realms/Worlds as different dimensions, each with its own physical laws and set ups.

Midgard is our Universe- all the Galaxies and Star Systems ruled by the 4 Fundamental Forces of Gravity, Electromagnetism, the Strong Force and the Weak Force. Moons orbit Planets orbit Stars orbit Black Holes orbit the Origin.

Asgard, however, has different Fundamental Laws- some are similar, many are different. "Planets" in Asgard (if there are indeed other places than the main city) are enormous floating disks of matter, with a single top and a single bottom. You fall off the edge, you fall forever. Water seems to be either generated, or (possibly) flows off the edge then back out from the center in some sort of Toroidal twisting of Space. We don't know their rules, but they allow for Magic and a certain amount of Tech.

Svartalfheim (the Dark World) seems to be an infinite plain of darkness and dirt.


They're different Dimensions, but not in the sense of Alternate Dimensions, like in the Marvel Zombies universe or the Ultimate universe- they're more akin to the Primal Planes of Matter from DnD type fantasy- they're all part of the same Universe (one of many from the greater Multiverse) but as they follow different fundamental laws, they cannot be Observed or affect each other, except through Quantum Mechanics (or higher-dimensional mathematics) or during the Convergence.

Um... I'm pretty sure in the movies at least, they're actual planets.

Didn't Thor and Selvig sort of point at them in the sky / on maps a few times?

 laffe wrote:
Taking a look at the Winter Soldier trailer again, I notice Black Widow playing sidekick... again.

Isn't it time for a Black Widow movie? I would love to see an origin story for her. Would also show that she's more than a sidekick, the tiny glimpses of her kicking ass in Avengers and Iron Man 2 isn't really enough. She NEEDS her own movie.

Nope

 Compel wrote:
Um... I'm pretty sure in the movies at least, they're actual planets.

Didn't Thor and Selvig sort of point at them in the sky / on maps a few times?

No, Thor describes them in manner of planes of reality, and that they are all interconnected through Yggdrasil.

When you're 'seeing' them, they're either symbolically represented upon the image of Yggrdrasil, or you're looking through the eyes of Mal- Mur- Malificentwhateverhisnameis the Dark Elf dude who can see the different worlds, you can clearly see the 'shapes' of each of them- Midgard is spherical, filled with galaxies and stuff, Asgard is a big disc, others are different shapes.

Anvildude wrote:
When you're 'seeing' them, they're either symbolically represented upon the image of Yggrdrasil, or you're looking through the eyes of Mal- Mur- Malificentwhateverhisnameis the Dark Elf dude who can see the different worlds, you can clearly see the 'shapes' of each of them- Midgard is spherical, filled with galaxies and stuff, Asgard is a big disc, others are different shapes.

Malekith. If you forget, just go to the GW home page, their Dark Elf king happens to be named the exact same thing.

 pities2004 wrote:

 laffe wrote:
Taking a look at the Winter Soldier trailer again, I notice Black Widow playing sidekick... again.

Isn't it time for a Black Widow movie? I would love to see an origin story for her. Would also show that she's more than a sidekick, the tiny glimpses of her kicking ass in Avengers and Iron Man 2 isn't really enough. She NEEDS her own movie.

Nope

Why not?