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I'm annoyed that they re-worded the DP's psycic powers. Before the FAQ you could have khornate psykers due to sloppy wording confusing mark of khorne and daemon of khorne.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
The summoning Daemons thing is COMPLETELY broken. Grey Knights can summon daemons? Yeah, only if they're going to fight those same daemons they're summoning. XD

Come on games workshop. How can you let Eldar and D'Eldar team up, but then CSM can't team with IG/AM?

Just another example of "GW hates Chaos." lol

That brings me to another point though; Do you have to be Battle Brothers with Daemons for them to be effective? What I mean by this is, if Grey Knights summon Daemons and their Alliance is "Come the Apocalyspe," do Grey Knights and the summoned Daemons still act like Come the Apocalypse or, for all intents and purposes, do they get to be good buds sharing a bear with Draigo? And no, that wasn't a typo. I meant bear. >>

Grey Knights cannot summon Daemons. They are prohibited from taking Malefic Daemonology powers, just as Daemon psykers are prohibited from taking Sanctic powers.

They can however ally with Daemons who in turn can summon Daemons.

( I reallly don't like Come the Apocalypse being able to ally and wish they made clear rules for Traitor Guard but whatev.)

Hollismason wrote:

It's not really that broken, other races get pretty messed up by summoning Daemons due to perils. Eldar have Ghosthelms that prevent the wound.

You don't follow rules for Come the Apocalypse but you would follow the rules for the Desperate Allies.

I suppose Perils (except for a roll of 6 - SUPER-WARP-CHARGED FTW!) is the balance that makes these non-Chaos people get eaten, but still... unless these guys have the Grimmoire of True Names or something, these daemons would just laugh at them as soon as they breached real space because that's all a daemon cares about.

Take a look at what happened to Ahriman when he tried to find out where Amon was in Ahriman:Exile. He touched the Daemon and got what he wanted but then the daemon turned around and said "Well that was fun and I'm glad you saw what you needed, but too bad because I'm going to kill you now and everyone with you while I'm at it because that's what I want."

BTW, where are the rules for the Webway Portal?

PS: Daemons are dicks.

It's in the Dark Eldar book, yes they can be.

I'm loving the opportunity to summon daemonettes for my Emperor's Children army. Allows me to deal with certain units like wraith knights much better than I could before.

While I agree, this isn't the sort of thing an Eldar farseer just goes and does on a whim, I think there is a precedent in the lore for this sort of thing. I don't have my eldar book on hand, but I seem to recall them diverting orc waaaghs and tyranid hive fleets onto unsuspecting monkeigh systems, numerous times.

When one of their quotes is something to the effect of 1 eldar life is worth a million monkeigh, can you honestly say that they wouldn't feel justified in opening a portal to a daemonic realm if they thought it would, say, save a craftworld? Throw some harlequins in there, the custodians of the black library, with all the daemonic know-how at their fingertips, and I don't think this is a stretch at all.

There are to my knowledge "Chaos Eldar".

Unless they changed that. So you could do a really cool what if or themed Slaanesh, Eldar army.

 Spellbound wrote:
I'm loving the opportunity to summon daemonettes for my Emperor's Children army. Allows me to deal with certain units like wraith knights much better than I could before.

You should try out using Sacrifice to summon a Herald of Slaanesh on a Chariot. It's pretty nice, or a Fiend of Slaanesh.

Hollismason wrote: Remember though once you pick a Sorcerer to cast it has to go through its spells fully.

Where are you getting this from? The rulebook says:

Rulebook wrote: If, after attempting to manifest a psychic power, you still have Warp Charge points left, you can attempt to manifest another psychic power with the same unit, or select another of your Psyker units and attempt to manifest a power the new unit knows. Assuming you have enough Warp Charge points, you can alternate back and forth between the same Psyker units in this way, but no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase.
...
To manifest a psychic power, you will first need to select one of your Psyker units. It does not matter if the selected unit is Falling Back or has Gone to Ground. Then, select a psychic power known to the selected unit that the unit has not already attempted to manifest in this Psychic phase.

Nothing about completely casting all their spells - in fact it does say that you can move back and forth if you wish.

Good catch, that was suppose to be about Possession. I need to reword it. Thanks.

Hollismason wrote:
I don't think people are going to like my thoughts on Fateweaver.

He is quite expensive, so you are right there.

I've only played one game in 7th so far and it became (unintentionally) a demon factory. I wanted at least 1 psyker with cursed earth (and apparently i could only get one on the 12th roll).
I did use Fateweaver because i think both of his reroll abilities (1 dice and warlord trait) offsets quite alot of bad luck. I used him more as a gun platform or just charge generator (getting 8 out of him is decent).
I did, however, feel like Flickering Fire was not as good as in 6th. Getting a 3 charge powers off required 7 dices to be moderately successful (i think i failed 2 in the game). The beam power (bolt of change?) was pretty great though.

I played against a armored up BT list (2 dreads in droppods, LRC, Whirlwind, Predator and a Rhino) and i had some problems actually hurting any of the tanks. Only managed to drop the two dreads, LRC and the rhino. Whirlwind really hurt me as well (a squadron of the 4x Barrage IG tanks, wyverns?, is gonna be really dangerous).
I had some problems summoning units since i didnt have enough models (specially heralds) and my only spare greater demon was a GUO. But i did get to spawn him twice (charged a dread, killed it, then got charged by a squad of TH/SS termies and died) which was great fun.

Jeffrachov wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
I don't think people are going to like my thoughts on Fateweaver.

He is quite expensive, so you are right there.

I've only played one game in 7th so far and it became (unintentionally) a demon factory. I wanted at least 1 psyker with cursed earth (and apparently i could only get one on the 12th roll).
I did use Fateweaver because i think both of his reroll abilities (1 dice and warlord trait) offsets quite alot of bad luck. I used him more as a gun platform or just charge generator (getting 8 out of him is decent).
I did, however, feel like Flickering Fire was not as good as in 6th. Getting a 3 charge powers off required 7 dices to be moderately successful (i think i failed 2 in the game). The beam power (bolt of change?) was pretty great though.

I played against a armored up BT list (2 dreads in droppods, LRC, Whirlwind, Predator and a Rhino) and i had some problems actually hurting any of the tanks. Only managed to drop the two dreads, LRC and the rhino. Whirlwind really hurt me as well (a squadron of the 4x Barrage IG tanks, wyverns?, is gonna be really dangerous).
I had some problems summoning units since i didnt have enough models (specially heralds) and my only spare greater demon was a GUO. But i did get to spawn him twice (charged a dread, killed it, then got charged by a squad of TH/SS termies and died) which was great fun.

You should reread the rules for Fateweaver, specifically the part about how many Warp Charges he generates.

Yeah , he unfortunately only provides 4 Warp Charge, it's stated outright in his profile. I'm hoping that he'll be given a choice of Malefic if a FAQ comes out other than the initial one.

I don't dislike him, but now with being able to reroll Warlord traits, you do have a better chance at getting the Warp Storm one for your normal HQ which isn't terrible.

 Zagman wrote:


You should reread the rules for Fateweaver, specifically the part about how many Warp Charges he generates.

Ah, i thought that was wierd. My opponent pointed it out and i just went with it as i was rolling for everything so wanted to speed it up.

Even with a reroll i figure i will pretty much never get the right Warlord trait. Before i played demons i played DA and when i played with a generic warlord i ended up with the same trait 9/10 times (the Hunt i think its called). Lets just say i don't trust my luck at all and Fateweaver is good at balancing that out. (should note that before i started using Fateweaver about 40% of my storm rolls ended up with a negative effect) Using FMC's in melee is such a hassle now anyway and he works well as a gun platform.

Kairos or Belakor is unfortunately a auto take if you are playing a tournament, but you can get away without them in a friendly or competitive friendly game or "hard" list game.

Someone was asking me about what I think a long term tournament would look like and it'd probably be something like

Kairos
4 Heralds, 1 Slaanesh , 3 Tzeentch, Grimoire, Portaglyph

Troops
4 to 5 12 man w/ Musicians

Fast Attack
Seekers w/ icon
or
Small to Medium Squad of Screamers
H. Support
Daemon Prince w/ Wings , Flying Summoner
or
Burning Chariots
or
Soul Grinder

Aegis w/ Comm
or
Bastion w/ Comm

Or something crazy like a FMC/ Monstrous Creature Summoning Telepathy List
Kairos Fateweaver
KoS
Troops
Pink Horrors
H. Support
Daemon Prince w/ wings, slaanesh, pskyer x 3

Strategy aside. The title of this thread always makes me smile.

Has anyone been using a factory list regularly? How has it been?

 undertow wrote:
Has anyone been using a factory list regularly? How has it been?

I go up against one regularly. It's interesting. Takes a lot of interceptor fire. We have a bit of a house rule that nothing can be too nuts so all of them are mild and don't just take as many Pink Horrors as possible. Not as scary as many think, but still very strong. I dislike the monobuildness of it. So yeah.

I've been playing it fairly regularly, most everyone is waiting for BAO as well as other tournaments to see what the shake down is in the new meta. Also, it's not super conducive to tourney play as if you are not super fast with your psychic phase you can easily burn your time out. I'm not attending BAO but we've played some games, you have to keep your phase really close to the 15 min to 20 min mark each turn if you want to like not run out of time.

Everything dropped though from the 35 to 40 to like 24 to 28 just to be more effective.

Right now I am running a Straight up Daemon Bomb w/ Soul Grinders and Heralds of Tzeentch, and some other troops to present threats when they come in.

It's more " hope I don't go against a Salamander Drop Podlisty" , it really can lose super hard to Drop Pods.

Seerstar against it at least in my view get's shut down hard and dies pretty quickly because you can dedicate all of your dispel to stopping that one critical spell of invisibility and Fortune then they can't attempt to cast it again on that same unit.

Then summon or shoot them to death. The big problem with Seerstar isn't the Seerstar it's the stupid Waveserpents.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 undertow wrote:
Has anyone been using a factory list regularly? How has it been?

I go up against one regularly. It's interesting. Takes a lot of interceptor fire. We have a bit of a house rule that nothing can be too nuts so all of them are mild and don't just take as many Pink Horrors as possible. Not as scary as many think, but still very strong. I dislike the monobuildness of it. So yeah.

Assuming intercepting them is one of your house rules?.

I haven't played any Factory lists yet, I've mostly just adapted my standard flying circus build and tried to add some summoning in where possible. Screamers to grab objectives if I get Incursion, etc. I've been getting around the loss of scoring on Swooping FMCs by using them to summon units onto the objectives.

I've found that while I get fewer powers cast each turn, more of them go off, especially when using 2 charge Flickering Fire. My opponents don't generally try to deny those, especially if they know an Invisibility is still on the 'to cast' list.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 undertow wrote:
Has anyone been using a factory list regularly? How has it been?

I go up against one regularly. It's interesting. Takes a lot of interceptor fire. We have a bit of a house rule that nothing can be too nuts so all of them are mild and don't just take as many Pink Horrors as possible. Not as scary as many think, but still very strong. I dislike the monobuildness of it. So yeah.

You can't actually fire interceptor at Daemons that are summoned, they come in during the Psychic Phase and Interceptor only works during the movement phase.

Have a friend who runs Demons and pretty much makes a mockery of anyone he fights. His roommate runs DA and 'Nids and only the gribblies have given his demons much of a fight.

A mutual friend ran Orks and Eldar against his demons recently in two separate games, Eldar won by a pretty decent margin, but the Orks got rocked repeatedly.

Edit: I've played him once with my AM, he has a problem with my tanks generally, even Chimeras give him a little bit of trouble.

Yeah, Multiple AV12 and above give it trouble.

Blue Scribes are indeed fun, but are they worth it since they take the whole HQ slot like the Masque?

If you are just building a competitive but fun list and don't want to take a FMC in the HQ slot or Daemon Prince then yes. You still get 4 more Heralds.

Or if depending on how your game is structured and you are not doing the whole "1 FOC" thing and doing a Combined arms they're super worth it in that second detachment.

I was really hoping people would embrace the combined arms detachments but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. Although BAO and others are letting you apparently ally with yourself.

nm

Something interesting came up at the GT I just attended, brought eldar for some weird daemon summoning craziness. In my 4th game my opponent came up with a few things that intrigued me.

Eldar (and 80% of the other races) are come the apoc alies with daemons this means that.....

A) Each turn they are within 6" of each other they have to roll for one eye open. This makes sense to me.

B) Sense come the apoc allies cant be deployed within 12" of each other, and according to him deepstrike counts as deployment (Page anyone) then Daemons can never be summened be eldar or anyone who is come the apoc with daemons. This im not so sure about, as its clearly not RAI but is it really RAW?

Not really, as it specifies under what conditions you mishap. Deploying too close via deep strike is not listed, so they are forced to deploy there but they dont suffer a deep strike mishap when they do.

I would personally play it as only during the deployment phase but it is middle ground area as there are no rules for what happens if they are forced to deploy within 12 inches via deep strike.