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Like the need another hole in the head

Can we please just fix grey Knights and blangels first?

I love Space Marines, they are every bit the iconic visage of the Warhammer 40,000 galaxy / game / hobby... But we're good on Space Marine variety. We do NOT need ubermarines per the rumour.

BrianDavion wrote:

I think people are over reacting, most likely what we're going to see is a new mark of power armor, to accompany a new founding of space marines. the idea that they'll be better then marines seems... doubtful. to be frank, there's no reason to, space marines are their best selling product, phasing them out for something new seems silly. but doing a new mark of power armor, combined with an exciting new founding seems like an obvious project.

Agreed. I read rumours of a new power armour in the barrel about 9 months ago, so it's very possible that this is coming to fruition. Could be an elite squad, max 1 per army, WS5 BS5, or even just standard marines with some sort of improved armour / invul save. Extremely unlikely they'll make something to relegate current marines, and as for the speculation on Guard being phased out, that's just plain ludicrous.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Didn't we already kind of get that with the Custodes?

I'm thinking this rumor may be about the Custodes. They are to Space Marines, what Space Marines are to IG. They have the whole 'Big guy in bright gold armor' that GW seems to be crushing on, and with the 'Emperor's Talon' Box set that's coming out, it looks like GW is defiantly interested in keeping that line going.

 jreilly89 wrote:
...Because that's why you see so much variety at every tournament come on man, it's either biker spam or a Gladius. There's literally no variety to SM lists.

So obviously the solution to two out of 69 Space Marine lists having much tournament presence is to release list #70 instead of fixing lists #3-50.

(In the interests of fairness lists #51-69 are the Legiones Astartes variants, and probably aren't seeing tournament play because you're not looking at tournaments where 30k is legal.)

 jreilly89 wrote:


There's literally no variety to SM lists.

That's because some SM options are extremely overpowered, not because most of their options are garbage. A SM list with no formations or grav spam can still be better than several other armies.

No OP we do not. Marines already have:
>The most codex's available to use
>The largest number of formations available to use
>The most powerful formations
>The largest model range
>More characters than anyone else
>The most up to date model range in the game
>An ENTIRE VERSION OF 40K DEDICATED TO THEM (30K)

In the meantime the Sisters of battle languish with 3rd/4th edition rules and 20+ year old figures and the Guard stand by with 3rd edition infantry and 5th edition tanks crammed into 7th and kits that are nearly as old as the Sisters. Oh, and we just watched on of our iconic homeworlds fall and got NOTHING. Barely even a mention in the fluff.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Oh, and we just watched on of our iconic homeworlds fall and got NOTHING. Barely even a mention in the fluff.

I'm not sure a book virtually dedicated to Cadia equates to barely a mention

I'm voting yes!

More marines. It really is fighting the tide by going with no. Give me super super powered marine elites to lead my elite elite forces on elite missions.

Did anyone really think that marines wouldn't be getting more love ahead of the other races?

I'll be shocked if dreadknights arent suddenly fielded 'in limited numbers' by astartes. Super Centurions will be 'tested'.

I'll expect some form of super dreadnought as well to compete with the above and Knights.

Ignore me.

Might as well join the Heresy Train here!

I voted NO, there is too much focus on Space Marines and too much bloat. I am not against minor rule changes e.g. tactical squad equipment for fluffy reasons but there is too much bloat none the less. I preferred it when the '98 Dark Angels, Blood Angles, Space Wolves were balanced supplements that gave minor changes. I think there are other races with particular lines of models that need an update, a prime example are Ork Wartrakks and Buggies etc. Now with legal custodies, Grey Knights with stupid giant walking men and those hideous monstrosities called Centurions there is too much 'Super' in the Astartes arsenal. If from reading what has been said in the comments that they will be more true scale, I am not against that for atheistic reasons, but longer assault rifle-bolters and super-super armour just makes me want to throw up. By the sounds of things they will have 2+++++++++++ armour saves and 80'' bolter range to out do a Hammerhead.

In the thread 'do you support Guilliman or the High Lords' I sided with Guilliman, but if he teams up with Mars to make stupid Ad-mech-super-super Space Marines that no doubt go to enhance the glorification of the Ultramarines over everyone else, I change my mind and would back the High Lords against this Dark Age technology Fabius Bile style gene mutated abominational rabbit out the hat 'new legion' any day! Hell, if GW pump out 40k Sigmarine Astarte's over the genuine armies that need updates I'm throwing my lot in with Abbadon!

End of Rant.

 master of ordinance wrote:
No OP we do not. Marines already have:
>The most codex's available to use
>The largest number of formations available to use
>The most powerful formations
>The largest model range
>More characters than anyone else
>The most up to date model range in the game
>An ENTIRE VERSION OF 40K DEDICATED TO THEM (30K)

In the meantime the Sisters of battle languish with 3rd/4th edition rules and 20+ year old figures and the Guard stand by with 3rd edition infantry and 5th edition tanks crammed into 7th and kits that are nearly as old as the Sisters. Oh, and we just watched on of our iconic homeworlds fall and got NOTHING. Barely even a mention in the fluff.

Maybe it's changed since I last looked, but space marines outsold the rest of the armies in 40k by a huuuge margin. step back and look at it from a company POV, it takes 5 currancy units to produce a kit. any kit, (simplification I know, but a tac squad is gonna have roughly the same price as a squad of new eldar troops to produce) faction A has 100 people playing it that can be counted on to buy at least 1 kit. faction B has 25 people that can be counted on to buy at least one kit.

looking at it from a busniess POV it's not hard to detirmine which faction gets the new kits.

It's almost like when you focus almost all of your advertisement on one product and ignore everything else, and produce new versions of that product constantly, that's what people know about and buy. Especially in a hobby like this where the best way to get people to buy things is to give them new things to buy.

....no...just....no.
New truescale models? Aww yea!
Some fluff abomination? No! A thousand times no!

They could even start releasing them in a board game so as not to interfere with current models directly. But for the love of all that is unholy, do not make a new type of space marine. Not even the emperor of mankind at his prime managed to get that right. Nor fabius bile who has not been under any ethic or moral obligations and has had the last 10k years to try.

Never mind the fact that it would be cranking the marysue-ness all the way up to eleven. Or that it tramples all over custodes being a thing. Or that this would be the 40k equivalent of aosification. Nothing would be safe anymore. All hail the ultramarine ultramarines which you know they would be called. And naturally the ultramarine ultradread would soon follow, can't have their new toys die too quickly now can they?


......Yea....No.

Shhh now children... This is GW, The new Super duper marines will be classed as walkers.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Shhh now children... This is GW, The new Super duper marines will be classed as walkers.

So they would be considered worthless out the gate?

A plastic sisters army would be a better option as their current miniatures are extremely expensive and old. But they're also an imperial faction with power armours, basically female space marines, so releasing a plastic sisters army is pretty similar with the concept of adding other new releases for SM.

Why people its mixing the concept of more marines and new miniatures for then with more rules for marines when of all the other 3000 marine rules, only 5-6 work properly?

The solution to old marines being crap if not using Bike Spam and some formations its not make more marines ,its to make better rules!

Its ironic that I'm finding Age of Sigmar more and more apelling not only as a game but a as product line than 40k.

Space Marines have 30k to play with others Space Marines... I understand the economical reasons for this but... urgh.

We are gonna end like Apple. Why have variety when you can have the shinny new Marine every 6 months.

 Roknar wrote:
All hail the ultramarine ultramarines which you know they would be called.

If they are Ultramarine Ultramarines does that make them Ultrasquares?

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
All hail the ultramarine ultramarines which you know they would be called.

If they are Ultramarine Ultramarines does that make them Ultrasquares?

The product of mixing an astartes ultramarine with a primarch ultramarine. The inception of a new age of ultra marines.
Probably on square bases at the very least.

I can do nothing more than sit in horror.

The basic Space Marine has changed very little since Rogue Trader, and despite things like ATSKNF and cost decreases, they haven't kept up with the power creep in the game.

Bikes and Cents are stupid. When they came out with bikes, I had to shake my head. The models are dumb and it seemed like they felt they had to give Marines bikes just because Eldar had them.

As someone pointed out, they tacked on free transports, Obsec everywhere, etc as a band-aid, but that leaves you with very limited ways to be competitive, or even just have fun playing marines. It's not actually all that fun to have to rely on your opponent simply not being able to quite completely table you in 5-6 turns to be able to win, which is what you're left with if you're playing Gladius at certain points levels.

I can't express how frustrating it is to have to throw down the points for Sternguard, which die just as easy as regular marines, just to get more than 1 spcl / hvy weapon and 1 combi per squad. Marines are supposed to be the best equipped troops in the Imperium. It's a little ridiculous.

The problem is that they locked the Codex Astartes into the fluff, and made the limitations on Spc/ Hvy part of that before all these other armies got squads that have what are essentially spc/hvy as part of their basic equipment that every model gets. It occurs to me just now that maybe the reason they brought back Gulliman is so the writers can justify a reorganization of the long obsolete Codex Astartes. really the notion that 1000 guys is supposed to make a dent in a conflict even just over a single planet has always struck me as completely absurd. My hope is that Gulliman will bring the Legions back.

List options aside, they're long overdue for a power bump. They don't reflect how elite and powerful they're supposed to be in even the least hyperbolic fluff. I don't know what the best way to do that is, but I really want my marines not to die as easy, and be able to hurt more than just basic infantry effectively. I don't mind paying more points for that as long as it's balanced with the kind of stuff Eldar and Tau can take.

I welcome a new Mark of Armour, but if it makes all our existing SM armies obsolete, that's going to hurt them bad with their core customer base. I spent a lot of time, energy, and money putting together a heavilly converted force of relic armoured Marines, and if they're going to put them out to pasture, or make them such a gakky option that I'll have no reason to field them at all anymore, I'm not going to be fething pleased.

Marine bikes are very very old - they are in the very first Space Marine army lists back in the Book of the Astronomican including the sidecar version.

Centurions - agree with the righteous Hate

The basic marine has changed quite a bit - they were not all T4 for one thing.

The other issue with making Marines match the fluff is that you then start needing less and less of them for an army - and that's not what GW's model is based on - they have poured such a disproportionate amount of effort into them that its the tail that wags the dog to the nth degree.

The rules and balance is as everyone agrees a complete mess - Maybe 8th Ed will sort out this but I doubt it.

There are some marine stuff that is right up there or even beyond the Eldar and Tau cheese and there is some that is down amongst the other factions - and that the issue - the other non snowflake factions are not getting the love to keep up with any of the Special Needs Factions.

So you have Sisters - one crappy formation and a brand new awesome character set that is seen more with Marines than Sisters as for one thing she does not have Act of Faith so they can't use theirs. Do Sisters get a Gladius formation - nope. Do Guard, Do Orks, Do Tyranids

Dark Eldar - unless you play one version of them they were stamped on hard at the same time as the Craftworld Eldar - already overpowered were pushed up further and further.

Orks and Tryanids are increasingly poor relations and the Guard is weaker and weaker but paying the points for being weak.

 Weboflies wrote:
The basic Space Marine has changed very little since Rogue Trader, and despite things like ATSKNF and cost decreases, they haven't kept up with the power creep in the game.

Bikes and Cents are stupid. When they came out with bikes, I had to shake my head. The models are dumb and it seemed like they felt they had to give Marines bikes just because Eldar had them.

As someone pointed out, they tacked on free transports, Obsec everywhere, etc as a band-aid, but that leaves you with very limited ways to be competitive, or even just have fun playing marines. It's not actually all that fun to have to rely on your opponent simply not being able to quite completely table you in 5-6 turns to be able to win, which is what you're left with if you're playing Gladius at certain points levels.

I can't express how frustrating it is to have to throw down the points for Sternguard, which die just as easy as regular marines, just to get more than 1 spcl / hvy weapon and 1 combi per squad. Marines are supposed to be the best equipped troops in the Imperium. It's a little ridiculous.

The problem is that they locked the Codex Astartes into the fluff, and made the limitations on Spc/ Hvy part of that before all these other armies got squads that have what are essentially spc/hvy as part of their basic equipment that every model gets. It occurs to me just now that maybe the reason they brought back Gulliman is so the writers can justify a reorganization of the long obsolete Codex Astartes. really the notion that 1000 guys is supposed to make a dent in a conflict even just over a single planet has always struck me as completely absurd. My hope is that Gulliman will bring the Legions back.

List options aside, they're long overdue for a power bump. They don't reflect how elite and powerful they're supposed to be in even the least hyperbolic fluff. I don't know what the best way to do that is, but I really want my marines not to die as easy, and be able to hurt more than just basic infantry effectively. I don't mind paying more points for that as long as it's balanced with the kind of stuff Eldar and Tau can take.

Good analysis. Mostly agreed. I don't exactly hate the bikes, but it is annoying how prevalent they've become. They just outclass the foot sloggers completely and of course the benefits for characters are significant.

I welcome a new Mark of Armour, but if it makes all our existing SM armies obsolete, that's going to hurt them bad with their core customer base. I spent a lot of time, energy, and money putting together a heavilly converted force of relic armoured Marines, and if they're going to put them out to pasture, or make them such a gakky option that I'll have no reason to field them at all anymore, I'm not going to be fething pleased.

Yeah, that's my worry as well. My marine collection is not terribly large, but each model is painstakingly converted...and I have a huge pile of still unbuilt marines. The new models (assuming the pic was genuine) look good and the marines definitely need a power bump (speaking about the individual marines, not about the army as a whole) but If they invalidate or sideline the old marines it will be massively annoying.

If all Ultra marines become custodes level - I approve of this. Then the other chapters will have to bow to the Codex Astartes or be annihilated.

Marines. No. Guard. Yes. Sisters of Battle. Yes.

I voted no. Custodes already cover ''stronger, faster, better equipped etc.'' superhumans. What would be the point of bringing Custodes into 40k if at the same time we get Custodes 2.0 but mass produced and in blue (uber ultramarines)?

I say yes, and only yes if it is to separate all the chapters that don't adhere to the standard SM rules like Black Templar and Iron Hands. I am so sick of nearly all the chapters losing their fluff and becoming smurfs light or wannabe smurfs. If talking models would love to see Iron Hands get back their unique unit the Iron Father (and fixing their fluff at the same time) and maybe a special character or two.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
I voted no. Custodes already cover ''stronger, faster, better equipped etc.'' superhumans. What would be the point of bringing Custodes into 40k if at the same time we get Custodes 2.0 but mass produced and in blue (uber ultramarines)?

The same reason that Astartes were created in the first place?

Sometimes you need soldiers, not warriors.

That's what the Imperial Guard is for.