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Skyfi, by Manz rokkits, I meant 3 mega armoured nobs, in a trukk... Not necesarrily giving them kombirokkits...

Jag_Calle wrote:Skyfi, by Manz rokkits, I meant 3 mega armoured nobs, in a trukk... Not necesarrily giving them kombirokkits...

d'oh

to think I refer to trukks as "fire and forget MANZ delivery systems" in my head, and not make that connection.

They're usually known as MANz Missiles, not Rokkits, but yeah.

Also, I think Weirdboy Power Weapon profile would be based on the weapon the Weirdboy'z holding. Usually it'll be a Staff (meaning Power Maul/Staff) but as they're Orks, you could easily have a Weirdboy holding a giant copper axe, or Mesmer-floating a greatsword, I suppose.


About the Kombi-weapons, though... I had this one idea for Nobz (and I guess Meganobz too) that might be a lot more workable in this Edition. What about using Nobz as a more cheap, non-differentiated unit? My idea specifically was a mob of Nobz with Kombi-Skorchas being used as a mini Burnawagon, or ones with Kombi-Rokkits, or even basic TLShootas or the default combo. For the cost of 2 extra Boyz you get a boost in Strength, 2 more Attacks, better Initiative, better Leadership and maybe a Battlewagon dedicated Transport.

But yeah, what about a Nob squad where all the Nobz are exactly the same? (except maybe a Banner and a Painboy.)

skyfi wrote:MANZ aint ever gonna rush halfway across field and save the day, ever. but at the same time they can go to ground if hit by ap2, and if inside ruins thats a 3+ save and not so bad... Also have to keep your warboss or an HQ with them to keep them in line

Area terrain is 5+, going to ground in area terrain is +2.
However, if you are in area terrain, but are behind a piece of ruins within it, then you have a 4+ cover, taken to 2+ because you're still in area terrain.
At least that's what my opponent was claiming in my last game. Feel free to disprove him though.

As for kombi-weapons, I feel the kombi-skorcha is becoming less of the no-brainer. as we will invariably be further away from our assault targets (and our assault targets being less dangerous to both biker and mega nobs), they now seem less potent. I'm seriously considering swapping the skorchas for rokkits on my meganobs to add a one-off salvo of anti-tank fire.

Dribble Joy wrote:

skyfi wrote:MANZ aint ever gonna rush halfway across field and save the day, ever. but at the same time they can go to ground if hit by ap2, and if inside ruins thats a 3+ save and not so bad... Also have to keep your warboss or an HQ with them to keep them in line

Area terrain is 5+, going to ground in area terrain is +2.
However, if you are in area terrain, but are behind a piece of ruins within it, then you have a 4+ cover, taken to 2+ because you're still in area terrain.
At least that's what my opponent was claiming in my last game. Feel free to disprove him though.

As for kombi-weapons, I feel the kombi-skorcha is becoming less of the no-brainer. as we will invariably be further away from our assault targets (and our assault targets being less dangerous to both biker and mega nobs), they now seem less potent. I'm seriously considering swapping the skorchas for rokkits on my meganobs to add a one-off salvo of anti-tank fire.

i got nothin, to disprove him but have been playing area terrain as 5+, and the area terrain connected to a ruins as 4+ (i was under impression you treated the area ruins were attached to as ruins also?).. also thought going to ground only gave you +1 to cover, didn't realize it was +2 while in area terrain...

I only came back to 40k in last leg of 5th edition. I quit in the swing of 4 so i'm a bit rusty.

Thanks for the insight!

You know there are a lot of orks out there when your thread is 31 pages where most others don't break 10 lol

Wolfnid420 wrote:You know there are a lot of orks out there when your thread is 31 pages where most others don't break 10 lol

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jag_Calle wrote:A question: what type of powerweapons do burnas count as in CC? What type does the warphead 1-3 count as?

Hoping not to jinx anything, but with the latest nerfs that headed our way (koptas, kommandos, trukkaboys etc) I wouldn't be surprised if they were faq:ed as axes, or anything that's ap4 or worse in CC...

Anvildude wrote:They're usually known as MANz Missiles, not Rokkits, but yeah.

Also, I think Weirdboy Power Weapon profile would be based on the weapon the Weirdboy'z holding. Usually it'll be a Staff (meaning Power Maul/Staff) but as they're Orks, you could easily have a Weirdboy holding a giant copper axe, or Mesmer-floating a greatsword, I suppose.

It's simple really. As soon as your weapon reads anything besides "This is a powerweapon", it's AP3, not strength bonus. The burnaz are flamers in addition to powerweapons, and the warphead has a whole page of rules attached to it.
As for zogwort, he still is S4 on the charge, so you'd even get to reroll the 2+ to-wound roll on his attacks against marines and weaker stuff. And yeah, his curse is what makes him so good. If he manages to squig even one enemy HQ, he has done his job well.



About the Kombi-weapons, though... I had this one idea for Nobz (and I guess Meganobz too) that might be a lot more workable in this Edition. What about using Nobz as a more cheap, non-differentiated unit? My idea specifically was a mob of Nobz with Kombi-Skorchas being used as a mini Burnawagon, or ones with Kombi-Rokkits, or even basic TLShootas or the default combo. For the cost of 2 extra Boyz you get a boost in Strength, 2 more Attacks, better Initiative, better Leadership and maybe a Battlewagon dedicated Transport.

I've been thinking anout what to do with my 3x12 kommando units alot lately.(at 2k points)

As I see it (given how fragile they now are, due to getting shot at when they charge) I have 6 choices:

A) Increasing their numbers to 15 each, and hope that's enugh.
B) running them as 4+bp nob with two rokkits, as a cheap distraction unit (outflank/infiltrate to a position of cover and take potshots at tanks)
C) running them as sluggaboys in trukks
D) running them as a big mob of sluggaboys, alongside my 2x25 units of shootaboys
E) running them as slugga boys (20 of 'em) in a BW, moving up alongside my borrowed Leman Russ Demolisher. (oi, it's been collecting dust since this codex came, as the looted wahon just never lived up to the hull)
F) as sluggaboys, in 3 killkannon BWs...

The rest of the list (that's decided thus far, is: warboss, kff bigmekk, 2x25 shootaboys, 5 rokkitkoptas, a kannon battery and a lobba battery (with maxed grots) as well as a detachement of IG (company command+autocannon and the ordnance dude, platoon command with autocannon, 2 squads with autocannons and my LR Demolisher. Considering getting Straken and some powerswords for the units, and using them as close protection detail for my kannons and lobbas). I have a lovely converted dread, but I think I'll shelf it along with the kans...

//Calle

PS. Has anyone considered using Zagstuk and da vulcha boys as a means if destroying enemy AA capabilities? Ie, dropping in, attacking the ADL turret and squad in CC? Now, they'll take some losses due to skyfire, and the rules that lets it fire when you arrive, but how many boys would you bring?

Well, realistically the quad gun has only four shots, so it can't kill more than four storm boyz, plus it can't shoot if it intercepted. Zagstrukk seems to be great in general (weaker mishaps, better reserve roll on turn 2, potentially higher charge range), I haven't tried him yet though.

As for kommandoz... why not simply infiltrate them?

I tried infiltrating them, but the few inches they gain by infiltrating, isn't worth the extra 4 pts per model, when they get slaughtered by defensive fire when they charge...

It'd be more efficent to run them as regular sluggaboys with an additional 8 boys, than the extra range, that and the fact that without outflank, they tend to be lone targets close to the enemy... with outflank, more threats are close to the enemy...meaning they don't get shot at as much, (or get shot to pieces, leaving another unit unschated).

How many vulcha boys (along with zagstukk) should be enugh to kill (in 2 CC phases) a unit of tac-marines assuming they def fire when you charge...(My Mathammer sucks...)

PS. Sorry 'bout the Manz "rokkit" misunderstanding, my mind has been set on orks for so long that I automaticly read and write rokkit when I see/think missile...

//Calle

I would always deep strike da vulcha boyz as a full unit. You are losing 1-3 simply because of the rules, plus another 1-3 from overwatch. Then you get hammer of wrath hits (S3, but auto-hitting), some pistol shots and maybe a thrown a stikkbomb if your enemy is clumped. With Zagstrukk being a nob on steroids you should be able to finish off tac marines the turn you charge them.

Jidmah wrote:Yup, and they still have crap LD and no boss pole. I own 30 deff koptaz and have tried about anything with them, including the "I'm crashing 30 ork koptaz into your baneblade"-formation.

They do awesome until your opponent finds out that a tank shock will make them fall back 3d6 roughly 40% of the time. And then there's all those new ld-based curses from the psychic tables. At least they can't get pinned anymore.

Since 6th, Ive been running 5 stock w/1 buzzsaw along with a bikerboss w/bosspole. It has been working really well so far. Its a powerful combo, they are REALLY fast, all those str5 TL shots just tear up units, EVEN MEQs and then they crash into assault and tear whats left right up.

I personally rarely used koptas in 5th, and rokkit buggies simply were better hands down. In 6th though? Yea, I havnt touched my buggies, infact I turned a couple back into koptas

KingCracker wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Yup, and they still have crap LD and no boss pole. I own 30 deff koptaz and have tried about anything with them, including the "I'm crashing 30 ork koptaz into your baneblade"-formation.

They do awesome until your opponent finds out that a tank shock will make them fall back 3d6 roughly 40% of the time. And then there's all those new ld-based curses from the psychic tables. At least they can't get pinned anymore.

Since 6th, Ive been running 5 stock w/1 buzzsaw along with a bikerboss w/bosspole. It has been working really well so far. Its a powerful combo, they are REALLY fast, all those str5 TL shots just tear up units, EVEN MEQs and then they crash into assault and tear whats left right up.

I personally rarely used koptas in 5th, and rokkit buggies simply were better hands down. In 6th though? Yea, I havnt touched my buggies, infact I turned a couple back into koptas

Maybe you can clear this up for me. How exactly are Koptas better than Warbuggies in 6th? I would have thought in 5th they were better, but now I can't see why.

In 5th, at least you could scout really far (turbo-boost) into your enemy's deployment then possibly get some rear armor shots / 1st round assaults.

In 6th, your scout movement is only 12" is it not? Since turbo-boosting happens in the shooting phase.

Koptas still suffer from the same problems as they did in 5th. Low leadership and has wounds. Wouldn't a Warbuggy just be a cheaper, better version? Especially for 6th?

I'm still investigating which is better and would like some clarification on your statement, but so far, it seems like Warbuggies are best.

T5, 4+/4++/5++ save and two wounds, actually make them harder to kill than the 2 hitpoint buggy...

I suppose, but losing just one in a squad less than 5 is risky because of such low leadership... no?

Can you actually attack the emplaced gun with the ADL? as if it were t7 like other artillery??

I played against a friend (who is new and unfortunately I am trying to show the ropes, ruh roh.) who plays necron and he took the ADL/quad gun. Didn't know it could intercept shot stormboys, woops that woulda helped him! stormboys were able to kill warriors off of gun emplacement. surfboard lord carved on over to save the day and retake the gun before manz showed up.

I don't know if it woulda made a game changing difference, but maybe!!


on the low LD from kopters vs no LD for buggies... its a risk/reward thing... kopters live longer due to saves/cyborakability/wounds, buggies die faster to glances when they can't find cover. only difference past that would be, kopters will potentially run after 1 casualty usually, while buggies never do... So if you can afford 5 kopters where 2 have to die for a LD check, woop woop. but if you can't fit them in, may be better off with buggies is what im getting?

Jidmah wrote:
It's simple really. As soon as your weapon reads anything besides "This is a powerweapon", it's AP3, not strength bonus. The burnaz are flamers in addition to powerweapons, and the warphead has a whole page of rules attached to it.
As for zogwort, he still is S4 on the charge, so you'd even get to reroll the 2+ to-wound roll on his attacks against marines and weaker stuff. And yeah, his curse is what makes him so good. If he manages to squig even one enemy HQ, he has done his job well.

Anvildude wrote:
... What about using Nobz as a more cheap, non-differentiated unit? My idea specifically was a mob of Nobz with Kombi-Skorchas being used as a mini Burnawagon, or ones with Kombi-Rokkits, or even basic TLShootas or the default combo. For the cost of 2 extra Boyz you get a boost in Strength, 2 more Attacks, better Initiative, better Leadership and maybe a Battlewagon dedicated Transport.

By comparison, Nobz actually have worse leadership than boyz, as there usually are less of them. If have thought about 10 Nobz with TL-Shootaz though. They are basically slightly worse shoota boyz(two shots are always better than one twin-linked shot), but get to allocate half their wounds to whoever you want to die, since they are all characters. Sadly this clocks in at 280 points, which isn't exactly cheaper then choppy nobz or , shockingly, flash gits, and a lot more expensive than shoota boyz. Pretty much the same for all other variants. They are outdone by burnaz and tankbustaz in terms of damage done per points, even when ignoring that combi weapons can only be shot once.

Little correction: They're Twin Linked Shootas, not Sluggas. That's 2 twin linked shots per.

Also, I don't think the Weirdboy actually has any additional Rules for their Weapon. It's just "If they roll this, then they have Powerweapons for the turn."

I'm aware of this.

You get twice as many shots from shootaz in a battlewagon. So you have two shootas for every twin-linked shoota. I should have clarified.

You have to take a psychic test, roll a 1-3 and be locked in combat in oder to get the powerweapon. If that's not unique, I don't know what is.

Jidmah wrote:I would always deep strike da vulcha boyz as a full unit. You are losing 1-3 simply because of the rules, plus another 1-3 from overwatch. Then you get hammer of wrath hits (S3, but auto-hitting), some pistol shots and maybe a thrown a stikkbomb if your enemy is clumped. With Zagstrukk being a nob on steroids you should be able to finish off tac marines the turn you charge them.

Hmm, that's ALOT of points to shift a tac-squad.... Nearly 300 I think (counting from memory)...
Isn't that a tad overkill? Though a tac-squad +ADL +quadgun would be 260ish come go think of it..

Do you think one could get away with 11 stormboys plus Zagstuk?

Assuming 2 models died from deep striking, the Vulcha Squad would kill 10.3 marines on average if it shot all slugga's, and assaulted a marine squad with 18 stormboyz + zagstruk. In total you're looking at 4 ork casualties due to superior initiative, so around 7 marines would die on average, meaning the squad will 9 times out of 10 kill the marine squad on the second assault phase, unless its a squad of berzerkers or blood claws in which you shouldn't have charged in first place However for a 325 point squad i dont think that justifies points cost much

why not charge bloodclaws? They suck if they get charged.

They will whittle the stormboyz squad to the point it becomes 9 boyz and a super nob compared to normal marine squads:
10 Blood Claws = 20 Attacks (1 base, 1 for CC weapon) i think, which will kill 4.1 boyz, so you're looking at attacking with 14 boyz, and thats not say there isnt some wolf guard pimp in there with terminator armour, because he wont play nice. If they get their counter attack they are killing 6.24 boyz. So 12 in phase one, say you kill 4, your squad will be too small to to anything in their next turn after the combat, making blood claws something that will take you down with them

So, the general consensus would be that stormboys with Zagstuck isn't worth the point-cost?

Jag_Calle wrote:So, the general consensus would be that stormboys with Zagstuck isn't worth the point-cost?

I have run him three times, once in a 2500 point game and he had 15 vulchas with him all of which were cyborked.

cybork game @ 2.5k:

They deepstruck landed, failed charge (took 2 casualties derp), got shot to bits, charged some reapers, ate some bullets, lost combat (and zag got ganked by eldrad in a challenge...), and were swept


game 2 was only 1100 points vs vanilla marines

they deepstruck near 2 combat squads, wiped one, moved onto other (was stuck in middle of shooting of 2nd & 3rd combat squads/razorback/captain for a turn) and eventually wiped it with a single boy left, who went on to get shot to death by some lone marine hangin around an obj.

game 3 1100 points vs necrons

8 warriors in ruins behind ADL w/ quad gun, deepstruck in front of them, charged, won combat after a round or 2, consolidated into ruins then get charged by surfboard lord who finishes the last 7-8 + zag off, while only taking a single wound from atop his CCB... 2+...


neither of 1100 point games were stormboys cyborked...

Gotta say they are very situational... they can provide great shocktroops and a nearly guaranteed turn 2 assault from a surprise force... but a very pricey investment for access to that tactical tool... I try to aim my stormboys at a similiar target (or close to) where my manz missile is headed... that way whatever it is I'm trying to get MANZ to, will be locked in combat / rushing to save the unit stormboys assaulted and be ready for a krumpin

Stormboys are very killy, but cannot make up their points cost against most armies frankly :( useful in apocalypse for a distraction and thats about all i would field them as

Orkaswampa wrote:cannot make up their points cost against most armies frankly

Does a unit have to be able to do this in order to be a useful inclusion to a list? Not killing a single model before dying is fine if it means the rest/important part of your force goes unmolested. Same with kommandos; infiltrate them and force them to to be dealt with or outflank and keep your enemy on the look-out on his flanks.

Actually, using that min-squad of 'mandoes with Rokkits could be useful- outflank them, and you can get some rear or side armour shots at things you otherwise mightnt.

@Dribble Boy, for 325 points it does! Thats like 20 - 30% of a standard sized list, when there's plenty of other, cheaper alternatives to it

Anvildude wrote:Actually, using that min-squad of 'mandoes with Rokkits could be useful- outflank them, and you can get some rear or side armour shots at things you otherwise mightnt.

Sadly, a minimal squad of Kommandos costs 50 points. Then you've got 20 points on top of that for 2 rokkits. That's 70 points and you aren't guarenteed you'll even hit something, let alone pen or glance.