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And for those points, you can get two rokkit koptas, which can outflank aswell, and are twinlinked to top it off...

//Calle

5 kommandos w/ 2 rokkits is 70 pts, Might be worth it as a nuisance. Two rokkitkopters is only 20 pts more however.

I've been thinking about how to improve my DeffWing, especially after my last game. As mentioned I would rather stick to mega armour and wagons (which obviously restricts things a bit), but how does this look?

HQ:
WB
CB, MA, BP, AS
130

WB
CB, MA, BP, AS
130

Troops:
Meganobs x 5
3 Kombi-rokkits
215

Wagon with 4 BS, RPJ, Ram, Riggers, Armour.
135

Meganobs x 5
3 Kombi-rokkits
215

Wagon with 4 BS, RPJ, Ram, Riggers, Armour.
135

Elites:
Meganobs x 6
2 Kombi-rokkits
250

Wagon with 4 BS, RPJ, Ram, Riggers, Armour.
135

Heavy Support:
Wagon with 4 RLs, Kannon, AC
155

1500

Foregone the skorchas for a bunch of rokkits. Given the likely proximity of units and inability to overwatch, I think that skorchas on meganobs is less viable than it used to be (as casualties are taken from the front and charge ranges are higher), so some anti-tank volleys are probably more effective. I have enough anti-infantry capacity (big shootas, TL-shootas and PKs), so I might revert to the 4RL wagon I used to run before IA:8 came out.

Should I collate the rokkits into one or two of the mobs? A couple in each mob might be a bit lacking, but I don't want to leave any mob without the flexibility to deal with armour.
Maybe drop a meganob from the Elites unit for another eight rokkits?

Well....I'm I'm adding this up right, you'll have 18 models and 4 Battlewagons. I'm sure it would be a fun army to play, but I wouldn't expect to win very often with it. Not only do you have a painfully low model count, which means every casualty you take will be huge, but in my opinion, you also don't have nearly enough shooting. You've only got 18 shootas, and 12 Big Shootas from the Battlewagons. You have a lot of Kombi-Rokkit Launchas, but you can only use those once per game. Honestly, in 6th, which seems to be a very shooty rulebook, that doesn't seem like nearly enough dakka. For orks it's about volume of fire. I know this is a fluffy list, and I can totally respect that. But, unless everyone else is playing a severly sub-par list, I can't see how this will be very successful.

It looks fluffy, but my major thought is that any small SM force can field more than enough lascannons and plasma guns to rip this list apart.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I've never run a list of this type, but I'm curious because I really want to run one now.

Is a Warboss on bike + Nob Bikers + Wazdakka + Bikers viable? What about with koptas/fliers thrown in?

This list will get mullered by guard, 3 chimeras with plasma vets will see half your army gone in second turn

It kind of sucks that Orks rely so heavily on horde builds to perform well, but that's really just the nature of the army.
You need redundancy, volume of fire, (and a little speed doesn't hurt) to really make the Orks shine.
I'm with you though. Running a list like that is exciting. Sadly, it wont do well against a ton of builds.
=(

*****

Also, played a couple of Nob mobz last night against BA. People may be screaming "NERF"" to the old wound allocation exploits, but to be honest, a Mob of Nobz, with a few PKs, 'eavy armor, Waaagh banna, painboy, and Warboss attached is just absolutely a BLAST.
Look out Sir, is just a half a notch under what Complex wounds used to be. They were unstoppable.
Love it.

matphat wrote:It kind of sucks that Orks rely so heavily on horde builds to perform well, but that's really just the nature of the army.
You need redundancy, volume of fire, (and a little speed doesn't hurt) to really make the Orks shine.
I'm with you though. Running a list like that is exciting. Sadly, it wont do well against a ton of builds.
=(

*****

Also, played a couple of Nob mobz last night against BA. People may be screaming "NERF"" to the old wound allocation exploits, but to be honest, a Mob of Nobz, with a few PKs, 'eavy armor, Waaagh banna, painboy, and Warboss attached is just absolutely a BLAST.
Look out Sir, is just a half a notch under what Complex wounds used to be. They were unstoppable.
Love it.

What was the make-up of your mobs of Nobz? Did you maximize them, or did you keep them around 7 or 8? How many PK's? Did you put a PK, Bosspole, and Waaagh! Banner on one Nob since we don't have to diversify anymore? Or do you think it's still better to spread the gear out? Questions!!!

My personal best experiences have been with this config, first they're wagon was destroyed, then they had a warlock squad with a farseer and destructors shoot them to death, and a harlequin squad, then were charged by both. The result of that turn = 3 Wounds on the squad, dead harlequin squad, dead farseer (big choppa instant deathed his face), and fleeing warlocks

3x PK Nobz
6x BC Nobz
Basic Nob /w WB
Painboy
Cybork on all models

The big choppas and the basic/painboy generally kill half a unit each (3s to hit and 2 or 3 to wound is good), then the PKs obliterate whats left, and it isnt insane points for a nob squad. Bear in mind this squad doesnt have eavy armour so it needs a bwagon escort

Attaching a warboss guarantees whatever squad is assualted by this nob setup will die. 9.8/10 has this been the case for me

Zog Off wrote:

matphat wrote:It kind of sucks that Orks rely so heavily on horde builds to perform well, but that's really just the nature of the army.
You need redundancy, volume of fire, (and a little speed doesn't hurt) to really make the Orks shine.
I'm with you though. Running a list like that is exciting. Sadly, it wont do well against a ton of builds.
=(

*****

Also, played a couple of Nob mobz last night against BA. People may be screaming "NERF"" to the old wound allocation exploits, but to be honest, a Mob of Nobz, with a few PKs, 'eavy armor, Waaagh banna, painboy, and Warboss attached is just absolutely a BLAST.
Look out Sir, is just a half a notch under what Complex wounds used to be. They were unstoppable.
Love it.

What was the make-up of your mobs of Nobz? Did you maximize them, or did you keep them around 7 or 8? How many PK's? Did you put a PK, Bosspole, and Waaagh! Banner on one Nob since we don't have to diversify anymore? Or do you think it's still better to spread the gear out? Questions!!!

Mine was 5x Nobz with painboy, 2xPK, Waaagh Banna, Big Choppa, 'Eavy armor, Cybork + Warboss with PK, Cybork, BP.

I have a 1500pt 'welcome to 6th' tourny coming up locally. I've been looking at Blood Angles, IG, Tau and Orks. I was leaning towards a Blood / IG due to Flyers, psykers and fear of 2+ armored character challenges, Mindshackle Scarabs, rerolling 2+ armor saves... Not sure what to expect in the meta game as there are just so many combos... For Orks, I toyed around with this list last night, but really still seems like it has too many weaknesses.

HQ:
(1) Warboss - PK, Warbike

(1) Warboss - PK, Warbike

Elites:
(10) Lootas

Troops:
(5) Nob Bikers - Painboy, 2x PKs, Waaagh! Banner, Bosspole

(6) Mega Armor Nobz - 4 combi-rokkit, 2 combi-flamer
[Option - Can swap the MANz for second 5-man Nobz on bikes, but then both Nobz on bike squads get 1 Klaw only.]

(17) Shoota Boyz - 1x Rokkit, Nob w/ PK, Bosspole

(16) Shoota Boyz - 1x Rokkit, Nob w/ PK, Bosspole

Fast Attack:
(1) Dakkajet - Supa-Shoota, Fighta Ace


This list worries me due to it's relative lack of anti-air. It's anti-vehicle relies on combat, and its harder to get to grips. I like that it only has 8 kill points, but looking at all of the shots that a well built DE army can toll out at this range worries me. The general lack of protection for the boyz and the reliance on the nobz at small unit counts seems like all kinds of risky. The Dakkajet doesn't have a backup either, so I see many problems here...

Thoughts? Should I scrap the idea for orks at 1500 in tourny?

Cheers,

No way. 1500 pts for Orks is a great point level. I'd suggest walking away from dual death stars at 1500 though. It really limits your flexibility.
If you want to build an all comers list for Orks at 1500, you're gonna have to base your army around boyz primarily, and then work out from there.
Start thinking in terms of flexability and roles. Boyz, Lootas, BWs, Etc...

Tactica wrote:I have a 1500pt 'welcome to 6th' tourny coming up locally. I've been looking at Blood Angles, IG, Tau and Orks. I was leaning towards a Blood / IG due to Flyers, psykers and fear of 2+ armored character challenges, Mindshackle Scarabs, rerolling 2+ armor saves... Not sure what to expect in the meta game as there are just so many combos... For Orks, I toyed around with this list last night, but really still seems like it has too many weaknesses.

HQ:
(1) Warboss - PK, Warbike

(1) Warboss - PK, Warbike

Elites:
(10) Lootas

Troops:
(5) Nob Bikers - Painboy, 2x PKs, Waaagh! Banner, Bosspole

(6) Mega Armor Nobz - 4 combi-rokkit, 2 combi-flamer
[Option - Can swap the MANz for second 5-man Nobz on bikes, but then both Nobz on bike squads get 1 Klaw only.]

(17) Shoota Boyz - 1x Rokkit, Nob w/ PK, Bosspole

(16) Shoota Boyz - 1x Rokkit, Nob w/ PK, Bosspole

Fast Attack:
(1) Dakkajet - Supa-Shoota, Fighta Ace


This list worries me due to it's relative lack of anti-air. It's anti-vehicle relies on combat, and its harder to get to grips. I like that it only has 8 kill points, but looking at all of the shots that a well built DE army can toll out at this range worries me. The general lack of protection for the boyz and the reliance on the nobz at small unit counts seems like all kinds of risky. The Dakkajet doesn't have a backup either, so I see many problems here...

Thoughts? Should I scrap the idea for orks at 1500 in tourny?

Cheers,

Main problem I see or I might be looking to it wrong is you are trying to footslog the boyz and the MAN I would try to give them BW so they can gain speed and would take at leas with big mek with KFF

Dribble Joy wrote:

Orkaswampa wrote:cannot make up their points cost against most armies frankly

Does a unit have to be able to do this in order to be a useful inclusion to a list? Not killing a single model before dying is fine if it means the rest/important part of your force goes unmolested. Same with kommandos; infiltrate them and force them to to be dealt with or outflank and keep your enemy on the look-out on his flanks.

Surely deffkopta's with the new jetbike rules are far superior for their points?

What new rules would make them that much better?

matphat wrote:I'd suggest walking away from dual death stars at 1500 though. It really limits your flexibility.

Absolutely, you simply can't get enough support until you hit 1850+.

Also, as mentioned, do not footslog meganobs. As they can no longer run, they are even more dependant on transports than ever.

sorry for the newbie question but... What is a deathstar?

UrgThraka wrote:sorry for the newbie question but... What is a deathstar?

Well, it's a powerful (and usually VERY expensive) unit that is capable of being massively destructive (i.e. Nob Bikers, Meganobs, Paladins + Draigo).

Think of it like the Deathstar from Star Wars (origin of the term).

Just finished playing 2 very small point games Dakka Orks vs Dakka Eldar vs Speed Freak Orkz vs Melee Nids. The battles were 550 pts and then 500 but this is for our escalation league, I must say I am impressed by nob biker + warboss combos for sure but they seem to really shine best at higher point gatherings. Meanwhile Dakka orks seem to be a very potent combination at almost any/all points, for the record our kannons are Badass now for the points here is what I ran. Please keep in mind these were escalation league games the requirements were only 1 HQ and 1 troop, i exceeded these requirements but the list wouldn't be considered legal in a standar game.

550 Pts - Dakka Orks Roster

HQ: Big Mek (1#, 103 pts)
1 Big Mek, 103 pts ('Eavy Armour; Ammo Runt; Shokk Attack Gun)

Troops: Boyz (30#, 215 pts)
29 Boyz, 215 pts (Big Shoota x2)
1 Boyz Nob ('Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Big Shoota)

Elite: Lootas (10#, 150 pts)
10 Lootas, 150 pts

Heavy Support: Big Gunz (13#, 81 pts)
3 Big Gunz, 81 pts (Ammo Runt x3; Additional Gun Krew)
10 Gretchin

Total Roster Cost: 549

So i fought a farseer with doom and the new divination prefered spell, eldar rangers, a wraithlord, and 2 units of guardians with scatter laser cannons. I ended up victorous over my enemy 5 vp to 3 in the Big Guns never tire mission. Things of note, his snipers removed my big shootas leaving me with only one very lucky nob as a special weapon in my 30 boyz unit. The Lootas did well but our mission was nightfight so the enemy was able to take advantage of it (but not as much as me ;-P) ultimately they wasted alot of gunfire trying to deal with the still broken statline of a Wraith lord. My Big Mek though and his kannon line were the victors of the match wiping the wraithlord off the map after 2 rounds of shooting and then wiping up the rest of the army near the end.

Most major loss i suffered was at the hand of 2 wraithlord flamers on my boyz squad. Luckily his flamers did more damage than good, he killed 12 orks in just one shooting phase while the boyz were doomed, this ruined his possibility of charging them afterword which he then regretted as I fired another barrage of kannons his way. ultimately my kannons emerged with only a single dead grot which was redirected from my bigmek due to snipers. I highly advise cheap Big Gunz walls now!

Orkaswampa wrote:My personal best experiences have been with this config, first they're wagon was destroyed, then they had a warlock squad with a farseer and destructors shoot them to death, and a harlequin squad, then were charged by both. The result of that turn = 3 Wounds on the squad, dead harlequin squad, dead farseer (big choppa instant deathed his face), and fleeing warlocks

3x PK Nobz
6x BC Nobz
Basic Nob /w WB
Painboy
Cybork on all models

The big choppas and the basic/painboy generally kill half a unit each (3s to hit and 2 or 3 to wound is good), then the PKs obliterate whats left, and it isnt insane points for a nob squad. Bear in mind this squad doesnt have eavy armour so it needs a bwagon escort

Attaching a warboss guarantees whatever squad is assualted by this nob setup will die. 9.8/10 has this been the case for me

What do you think about simply dropping all the big choppas for an extra attack? Every since vehicles became so easy to hit, while also losing +1I, I really don't see the point in that +2 str any more.

Dr. What wrote:

UrgThraka wrote:sorry for the newbie question but... What is a deathstar?

Well, it's a powerful (and usually VERY expensive) unit that is capable of being massively destructive (i.e. Nob Bikers, Meganobs, Paladins + Draigo).

Think of it like the Deathstar from Star Wars (origin of the term).

They also tend to be a single point of failure, which means that you can lose a lot of points at once if an (un)lucky roll removes them from the battle. If 10 paladins get tank-shocked and run off the table, that's pretty much as likely as some jedi boy hitting your air vent.

Maybe worth noting that a Painboy wounds on 4+

edit: as for killing vehicles with strength 5:

http://www.heresy-online.net/combatcalculator/assaulting_vehicles.php?1=Attacker%20Group%201;1;5;5;5;;;;;;;;;;;&2=Attacker%20Group%202;1;4;5;7;;;;;;;;;;;&d=Defender%20Group;1;;combat;10;;&v=0

Also, MEQ's killed per turn:


http://www.heresy-online.net/combatcalculator/assaulting.php?1=Attacker%20Group%201;1;5;5;5;3;;;;;;;;;&2=Attacker%20Group%202;1;4;5;7;3;;;;;;;;;&d=Defender%20Group;1;1;4;4;3;;;;&v=0

Also, Monstrous Creatures wounded per turn:

http://www.heresy-online.net/combatcalculator/assaulting.php?1=Attacker%20Group%201;1;5;5;5;3;;;;;;;;;&2=Attacker%20Group%202;1;4;5;7;3;;;;;;;;;&3=Attacker%20Group%203;1;4;5;;3;;;;;;;;;4&d=Defender%20Group;1;1;4;6;3;;;;&v=0

In summary, I don't think it would be unreasonable to take at least one Big Choppa, no. I do think that more than 2 is overkill and a waste of points.

TedNugent wrote:Maybe worth noting that a Painboy wounds on 4+

edit: as for killing vehicles with strength 5:

Keep in mind that poison even gets rerolls against most opponents, unless you are charging big MCs.

Played a list last night against BA that ran both a Deffkopta squad with attached Biker Boss, and a Biker Nob squad. I wanted to see how the two fared and have a direct comparison during a single game.
Happy to report that they both did very well. I miss having the Green Baron doing his thing, but Koptas over all are looking pretty good. The Nobs are still far and above performing better. At least for me. I'm totally in love with Nob bikers now. They really are amazingly flexible in all respects.
Question:
Do Koptas confer the scout USR to any IC attached to them?

So i keep noticing people are giving their nobs a big shoota in boyz mobs. How are you doing this, because I havent seen anywhere in the codex that allows them to take one. I thought they had to be on a seperate boy from the nob.

MrMoustaffa wrote:So i keep noticing people are giving their nobs a big shoota in boyz mobs. How are you doing this, because I havent seen anywhere in the codex that allows them to take one. I thought they had to be on a seperate boy from the nob.

Read the codex again. It says for every 10 orks you can upgrade one to a big shoota. Nob is still an ork so he can do it

MrMoustaffa wrote:So i keep noticing people are giving their nobs a big shoota in boyz mobs. How are you doing this, because I havent seen anywhere in the codex that allows them to take one. I thought they had to be on a seperate boy from the nob.

1.) Buy ten boyz
2.) Buy a Big Shoota
3.) Upgrade the Big Shoota Boy to a Nob???
4.) Profit!

I'm not sure this is still a good idea under 6th though. In previous editions where you couldn't target individual models it made a lot of sense to consolidate everything onto a Nob. But under the new rules I would worry about losing that Nob to a challenge or something else, and subsequently losing that big shoota.

What do you guys think? Is it better to give the boss his big gun (obviously it's more fluffy), or is spreading out the toys the best way to do things now?

Pro:
Nob can precision fire the Str5 Big Shoota and possibly snipe other characters and ICs. Giving him a slightly better chance of doing so, than with a regular shoota.

Con: Nob can be challenged.

Actually GW has the miniature the nob with Power Klaw and big shoota.

Yup. He's in the conversions section of the Ork dex.

I prefer to leave mine on boyz though, mainly for modelling reasons. My Nobz tend to be swinging something large and two-handedly brutal, or Powerklawing some poor sod to death.