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The apparent randomness of the Eldar is something that seems to have been lost.
The eldar arent going to help the Imperium because they are good, or oppose Chaos or Necrons because they are bad.
They do things to save their own race. To walk down a very thin road that results in their species surviving.
I want to read fiction where the Eldar show up in a hive to kill one particular meaningless hive rat. because in 30 years hes going to have become captain of an imperial starship that bombs an eldar exodite world.
I also like the concepts of the aspect warriors and the exarchs who are trapped on the paths, and the phoenix lords who are the epitome of their paths and contain the memories of dozens or hundreds of eldar in their suits. and they will pass their memories to the next one.

And i cant stand the harlequins.

There´s nothing wrong in most of Aspect warrior models except for some of them being oldest than the internet itself. And those warlocks...duh. They are well designed but their body prorportions are ludicrous for today standards.

I wonder if GW guys are aware of all the cash they´re missing for not making wraithguard plastic, bearing in mind that all what they care for is $. Redo the Phoenix Lords would be a smart move too since they are quite popular (I mean, how many new marine characters have they made this last years?). And make more charismatic eldar special characters apart from Yriel, for Khaine sake.

Hey, Sisters are still using second edition models. At least Eldar HAVE some plastic infantry....

And it's not bad looking plastic infantry, either. Honestly, I can't see a lot wrong with the Eldar model range, besides the abundance of metal. I mean, nothing is really showing it's age too badly (unlike the Ork Warbuggies) so I personally don't mind if they're old models.

Did i really just read that orks aren't a significant threat?

Orks are going to be second, IG first.

As much of a fangirl that Melissa is of the Orks, the fluff, play ability and the fact that everybody can relate to the IG, is going to make them first.

The Eldar are my favorite race I think mainly for one of the same reasons Melissa liked them some much as I used to always play Elves in D&D.

I also love their background story, even the part that they are a fading race, and even at the decline they can still cause major problems for any race.

The reality of it is though they'll never be extinct they know to much about the warp and the webway and have the foresight to avoid most of their utter doom. And besides the way GW advances story line .... you think they'd ever get rid of an army as popular as the Eldar I don't think so.

I just wish their fluff represented itself in the game play better. I also hope their next codex is arranged more like the ork dex ias it tells more of their stories of raids, interventions and gives better examples of how the farseers guide them and for what reasons, as their fluff section. I mean do we really need another account of the fall and how and why it happened?

I agree it's a good codex and has showed it's age well but vs. more and more codex creep I don't know how much longer it's going to stay truly competitive at the end of 2011 with I'm guessing 3 more dex releases after DE I'm wondering how well their dex will stand up at that time. I see alot of people complain about the phoenix lords being bad but I have run every one (sans Baharoth) very effectively, the problem is they just don't give the bonuses of an Avatar or Farseer.

No one can in their right mind say PLs are bad. They are not closely worth their cost, however. Not when you can get one of the toughest MCs in the game for 150 points or the best force multiplier in the game for even less. And Autarchs are a great tactical advantage in a mech list.

Their lack of invulnerable save is simply inexcusable for a frontliner 200 point HQ choice.

El-dred wrote:The reality of it is though they'll never be extinct they know to much about the warp and the webway and have the foresight to avoid most of their utter doom. And besides the way GW advances story line .... you think they'd ever get rid of an army as popular as the Eldar I don't think so.

Get rid of them?

No.

Do bad things to them regardless?

Look at what happened to Eldrad...



I run Craftworld Eldar, and I like them for a number of reasons.

They're not ignorant, and have a pretty good idea regarding the true nature of things - unlike pretty much everyone else who isn't halfway down the path to becoming a Chaos Spawn.
Fluff-wise (game-play wise is arguable...) they have advanced equipment and technology, and aren't afflicted with any of the superstitions that the Imperium is saddled with.
Painting their troops is an excuse to ignore common sense when picking colors. And it WORKS! Painting Eldar encourages creativity when developing the color scheme.
The fluff is - for the most part - fairly decent. Or at least it is in the Eldar codex. Outside the codex, it can get rather annoying, and quite silly as well... (I'm looking at YOU Doom of Malantai! And Calgar! And possessed Avatar! etc...) It actually tends to be quite grounded, and there isn't much of the usual "codex porn". And some of the Craftworld-specific fluff comes across as optimistic enough to off-set the "We're all doomed!" bits that turn up. Iyanden might be doomed, but The Swordwind begs to differ!
In-game, they've got interesting units - though unfortunately some of the most interesting ones are badly in need of an update.

Please dont put IG first....

There are a lot of things that need re-tooling in the next iteration of the Eldar codex. I am also excited for Tyriel to slay an Avatar!

Orks, then IG. I still stand by this, despite me preferring the Greenskins.

Rascon wrote:

Melissia wrote:Killing a Hive Tyrant is not even remotely comparable to killing the AVATAR OF A GOD OF ****ING WAR.

Which would suggest that a Chapter Master is considerably more of a badass than a Cannoness.

Exactly, Avatars are pussies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:I'll grant you that. The game is entirely from the Imperial view, as the Imperium (such as it is) is the dominant power. Orks are everywhere. They are a terrifying plague of violence. But in ten thousand years, they have not become any more (or any less!) of a threat to the Imperium.

Or even before The Imperium. Orks are the most stagnant race. Tyranid on the other hand turned the Imperium on its head in just a few hundred years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Even older than orks, who are one of the oldest races in the galaxy?
I'd argue that the ruination of the Armageddon system, the destruction of Rynn's World and the decimation of the Crimson Fists was significant, personally. Also, the ever-increasing advance into the core Tau sept worlds. I'm afraid that given this evidence, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.

EDIT: Ignore the first sentence, I misread. Whoops.

I would argue for 40,000 years: it's not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:Except that they are. Orks control huge swaths of the galaxy, and they're constantly attacking from said territory, expanding anywhere that the Imperium's defenses are weak. Any world they land on becomes an Ork-infested world, drawing more Orks to it as well as the ones that are born there. Even a single Boy surviving to make it to the surface can mean an entire world is doomed to eternally suffer the predations of Orks.

"Control" is not the right word. More like "Orks fight each other on a lot of planets"

Yes, which is basically sport to them. They fight eachother because war makes them stronger. Just because Orks fight eachother doesn't mean these aren't Ork planets.

This:

Seaward wrote:The above post is not in any way a hilarious overreaction to a highly insignificant topic.

Not this:

SaintHazard wrote:
Wow.

Someone needs to cool his balls and realize that he's getting worked up over a subjective opinion of a fictional army of plastic soldier men.

Also I think this sums up the thread perfectly, all praise the primarch!

Alpharius wrote:At 33 pages and counting, there's only so much that shouting into a hurricane will accomplish.

This is firmly in Melissiawank territory, so it is best to just move on to the next one and hope that the final three show up quickly.

LordWaffles wrote:Also I think this sums up the thread perfectly, all praise the primarch!

Alpharius wrote:At 33 pages and counting, there's only so much that shouting into a hurricane will accomplish.

This is firmly in Melissiawank territory, so it is best to just move on to the next one and hope that the final three show up quickly.

My generous attention span is stretching somewhat thin.

Yeah, honestly, for the last 10 pages, I have been skimming, and even the term "skimming" is an exaggeration, and I am just looking for the last update.

WE REQUIRE MORE UPDATES!

Happygrunt wrote:WE REQUIRE MORE UPDATES!

Surely the most interesting man in the world can wait a few moons xD

YOU REQUIRE ADDITIONAL PYLONS!

Well, iv enjoyed this thread. Not often I go though 33+ pages.

I would like to comment on the Eldar, since they're my only army.

There is a large part of their history in them getting punched in the face by Chaos, but their current situation is just trying to move on with their lives. I hardly see Eldar crying over whats happened.

They can also play in two ways on the game table. Tourney, in which yes they may be a little cheesy and many models are no use. However you can play as fluff (great with friends) which gives you many, many army builds and is a ton of fun. One of the best Codex books to play a fluff army IMO.

Models are getting somewhat out of date but I agree, they do ok and other armies like the Sisters could use a makeover first. I won't buy the Avatar, he looks terrible (and his fluff is bad as he always seems to get rolled by other races. He should be a lot tougher\better).

Melissia wrote:Yes, which is basically sport to them. They fight eachother because war makes them stronger. Just because Orks fight eachother doesn't mean these aren't Ork planets.

It's not sport to them. It's just the nature of their existence. They don't even fight to become stronger they just fight because they fight. They will never unite as one force they were designed to be under the complete control of the Old Ones. Without their leadership they are like lost children; constantly bickering amongst themselves.

And yet there are definitive Ork empires. Though Orks may bicker on a social level, they will almost always bow to the will of a larger and more powerful greenskin; hence the existence of these empires, where such an individual has taken power and rules with an iron fist. To get rid of this excess violence, this individual will often end up leading conquests of nearby planets and systems so as to keep the lads happy, or he will organise massive gladiatorial contests, beast hunts or some other thing to keep the boys entertained.
In theory, should an Ork Warlord become powerful enough, he could control huge swathes of the sectors of the galaxy.

Couldn't the fighing between Orks be seen as constant natural selection?
Their aggressivenss and in-built willingness to fight each other could have been engineered when they were created(lets say for the sake of argument they are directly descended form he Krorks) so that they will always sta strong. Not only that but the constant state of warfare means that they will never settle and have a civilised society which means they will never become corrupt orplacid.

You could indeed see it as a method to have weaker orks die out while the victor increases in size and strength due to his victory; that ork is then a much greater warrior and more of a threat in battle.

Anyways, I think Eldar may have been the only race I ever hated. Back when I still played Star Cannons had 3 shots and were good at killing everything. It was a time of heavy streamlining but Eldar had more special rules and weirdness than all the other races put together. Damn you Gav Thorpe! (I think he was the original Matt Ward).
Anyways I was 14 so i got over it. Also all the races have extensive codices now. Probably more than they actualy need (really don't think all the Space Marines need giant $32 codices that basically reprint the same rules over and over)

I do admit, I find the Eldar a bunch of swines to play against when they're on their game. It's nearly impossible to get to handgrips with them, seeing as they can outmanoeuvre my Speed Freeks and still have time for a bit of zen and wraithbone building before blasting my arse to hell.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:You could indeed see it as a method to have weaker orks die out while the victor increases in size and strength due to his victory; that ork is then a much greater warrior and more of a threat in battle.

I believe the Old Ones designed them with short-sighteness as a self control mechanism. There's no doubt that Orks are the ultimate Warrior race (they were dsigned to be). Absolutely the would destroy the galaxy if they got their act together. The Old Ones weren't stupid. It's pretty obvious they were going down the road of "we played god and now ou own creation are turning against us" movie cliche. So they left out (well more like forgot to add) some of the societal organizing principles that other sentient races posses.

They were probably programmed to follow the Old Ones without question but lacking them they just follow the biggest Ork around.
Humans control one million worlds and they actually do control them.
Orks exist as one million unconnected empires and always will. That's why you can't refer to them as a unified galactic force. You may say that Ork empire #16895 is quite strong but there is no "The Orks". They just appear to be a monolithic force to us silly humans.

Hmm, you make a point, though those ork empires are still a threat even individually, as orks have a weird community spirit when a mutual enemy turns up. If one empire comes under attack, others may get involved so as to get some of the action. The alliance will last as long as the enemy does, of course, but even so.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I do admit, I find the Eldar a bunch of swines to play against when they're on their game. It's nearly impossible to get to handgrips with them, seeing as they can outmanoeuvre my Speed Freeks and still have time for a bit of zen and wraithbone building before blasting my arse to hell.

Yeah, I love to fight greenskins because of the same reasons.