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You gonna do any fused weapons? Bits still yours if you want them.

 Biohazard wrote:
I've just noticed you mentioned the Legacy of Kain series. I love that series of games, Lord Malek Demios is even named after one of them. I'd initially wanted to name him Malek Kain but that name was already taken by Teethgrinder

Mate, don't get me started! I loved that series, sometimes in spite of the slightly dodgy gameplay (Soul Reaver 2 comes to mind). I am actually only a little ashamed to admit that I sometimes go back to watch all the Defiance cutscenes in a row

Seriously, though: In my opinion, the devolved vampires in LoK and 40k's Chaos Space Marines have quite a lot in common: The whole fall from grace thing, the somewhat fatalistic acceptance of their fate or the haughtiness and "magnificent bastardiness" of Kain himself -- there's a ton of inspiration for 40k aficionados in that series. Plus that scene where Raziel encounters Dumah in Defiance was sooo disturbing, right?

What a shame they never got to finish the story!

In other news: Maybe it's for the best you didn't use the "Kain" name: Everyone always goes for that name first, so it's usually not that creative an option. Your choice is much cooler!


@ Miss Dee: Hmmm, I am not entirely sold on the whole fused weapon look, to be honest. There are only very few people who can actually pull this off (*cough* GuitaRasmus *cough*), and I am definitely not one of them. Plus these spawn will be CC weapons only, to really make them look like devolved gladiators, if that makes any sense.

Oh, and yes, I would totally like those cultists, but it seems I don't have anything interesting to offer in return, right?

yeah I like how they turned out, the ones with the spines sticking from their backs. With the posing it pretty much eliminates the problem of the arms being a bit big... in any case if someone asks you can say they need to balance their workout regimen.

Very true, Kain is a very popular name for a lot of reasons. I still have Soul Reaver 1&2 even though I sold my PS2 years ago. I also have Blood Omen 2 for my GameCube and Defiance for my old Xbox. Soul Reaver has the best intro scene of any game IMHO. Hmm.......*rushes off to scour eBay for cheap ps2*

Gotta say that i really love the defiler dude.
I checked the thread you said that you had looted the design from, and i still am curious about how you did what you did. Could you post a shot of the backside of the defiler so i can see the engine etc. Perhaps if it was taken from the bottom then i could better see what was done with the legs snd all.

Beyond all that. You say your an average or not a good painter, I beg to differ. Your stuff looks nice. I wou;d be pretty happy if i could paint as well as you.

Marine arms will be fine as im making scouts fer ma space sharks
.

@ Biohazard: While you're at it, you should also pick up Primal along with a used PS2. Its atmosphere is reasonably similar to the LoK series, and while the story may seem a little cliché at times, the production values are off the hook! As an extra bonus for us World Eaters, the art direction was done by Mark Gibbons, creator of the greatest piece of World Eaters art in existence

Uhh...Sorry for the offtopic rant. I can get rather passionate about videogames, huge nerd that I am...


@ sennacherib: Well, flattery will get you just about anywhere with me, mate, so here we go:

It's really a pretty simple conversion: You just cut off the last part of the Defiler's "undercarriage". Here's a shot from below to show you where to cut approximately:



As you can see, about a third of the socket for the third pair of legs remains. Cutting there (make sure to use a very sharp knife and make a nice, even cut!) will give you two short pieces: The one from the underside can be discarded (or put away for whenever you need nondescript machine parts). The other one is used to close the hole you just cut into the model's back: The piece is attached at a 90 degrees angle to the main body. Then the exhaust pipes are attached to that in turn. Here's a look at the backside, to illustrate what I mean:



If you take a closer look, you can still see the remains of the leg sockets to the left and right of the silver engine block thing. Take a look at the defiler bitz and compare with my pictures. It should be pretty obvious what I did.

Hope this helps. If anything is still unclear, just drop me a line!

@ Miss Dee: You mean just bog standard Marine arms? I'll have a look at my bitzbox and PM you shortly!

Will check it out. Mark Gibbons is a major inspiration to my own drawings/paintings. And apologies for derailing the thread

Looks cool mate. although its hard to make out the overall shape from the front.

As always I am GREATLY inspired by this have been steadly building up my own Khorne Beserker army more additions on the way and a Project blog .... hopefully but Kraut this work simply amazing mate .... amazing!

Those spawn things are great! I thought the arms looked a little bulky at first but they all come together really nice! Love a good kitbash =)

Yes bog standard please

Well this has been a intresrting tread to read from end to end. But seriosly,! Dont hold your models while you take pictices of them, it realy ruins the thmoresion of the model. But beside that well done so far

Ok. Can anyone care to tell me what a thmoresion is? I am perplexed.

EDIT: Oh, and are you talking about the 'Primal' with the little gargoyle and the leading female? (I'm trying to be as vague as possible as to not ruin the game!)

Great work as usual Kraut!!! i love you stuff!
i also love the Legacy of kain saga, as it has it all; great names, great fighting and a great story!!! i have to admit i did fall in to the trap of naming one of my Khorne lords Kain (it's just such a good name!!! )
one day i hope to do a few LOK conversions, as i think that they will fit in aesthetically in the grim-dark.

keep up the good work mate!!

I never really liked the stock defiler model, but the way you have converted it makes me wonder if I should get one.

Thanks a lot, people!

@ ghosty: Yeah, that's the game I was referring to! I really loved it, in spite of the sometimes pretty clunky controls. And Mark Gibbon's art direction on this was truly excellent!

@ Trondheim: I guess you're right, mate: I try only to hold them when I need to take a few quick shots of a certain part of the model or of a WIP. Once a model's fully painted, I usually try to pose them against my usual background of old cork wallpaper

@ Chaos Emperor: Cheers, mate! You know, all that talk of the LoK series has made me yearn for it again: Maybe I need to go sit down and watch those Defiance cutscenes for the umpteenth time now And without a doubt, Kain would make a fantastic Chaos and/or Vampire Lord!

@ Boringstuff: Also take a look at Biohazard's "Bloodstalker" Defiler conversion, mate! It's possible to make something cool out of that kit, although it can become a bit of work. Go for it, if you're feeling a little adventurous


Right, let's take a look at my new WIP squad of jump infantry, shall we? I'll just present this update in the form of a little review, if you don't mind:

I may have mentioned before that I quite like jump infantry: For us World Eaters players, Raptors are always a great way of adding a dash of flexibility to an otherwise very predictable army. So I built and painted my first squad of World Eaters jump infantry long before the release of the new Codex. You may remember these guys:



Granted, here may be other units in the list that are more viable in the fast assault role (*cough* bikes *cough*), but I simply love the concept of World Eaters equipped with jump packs rushing into the thick of battle with wild abandon. So it is probably no surprise that a box of the new plastic Raptors/Warp Talons was one of my day one purchases, along with the new Codex. Today’s post will be all about those guys.

The kit has been out for a while now, so I will spare you the unboxing video and sprue diagrams. Both are easily found elsewhere on the net. Still, late as my own “review” of sorts may be, I thought it would be nice to collect my thoughts on the models while working on my first new squad of jump infantry, pointing out the good and the bad as I go.


Pros:

“It’s plastic!“

Working with GW’s excellent and highly versatile plastic kits is always a joy, and that is why the mere fact that Raptors are now available as a plastic kit counts as a huge advantage in my book: No more pinning, no more models falling over because they are precariously balanced on their bases. And lots and lots of customisability — provided you know how to use a knife, that is. I have painted quite a few metal miniatures in my time, and I like the amount of detail GW’s designers are able to cram into some of those Finecast models (QA problems notwithstanding), but plastic is where it’s at for me!

Of course this also means that the kit is fully compatible with the rest of the (Chaos) Space Marine range, although not all combinations will end up looking great. Still, with a bit of mixing and matching, you’ll be able to customise your jump infantry and make them fit the rest of your force visually (more on this point in a minute)

“It looks nice!”

The sculpt on these guys is pretty great, but that’s almost a given with GW’s more recent kits. What I really like though is the slightly readjusted overall look of the models: The last Raptor sculpt – along with the fluff – had them positioned as a bit an external force to all Traitor Legions, a cult onto themselves, which meant that the models had a very distinct look. And while more individuality is mostly a good thing, not everyone was happy with their Raptors looking so different from the rest of their force: Even when painted in the colours of a specific legion, they never quite looked like they belonged.

The new armour design seems like a bit of a return to the original 3rd edition Raptors in that it is distinct enough to differentiate them from other unit types, but should also work rather well with different colour schemes, those of the original Traitor Legions included. So for those who want it, the individuality is still there, while the rest of us are free to build jump infantry that resembles the rest of our force.

There’s also all kinds of nice detail: The Raptor helmets recall corrupted, older marks of power armour (MK IV and VI, especially), and the CC weapons are some of the greatest Chaos Space Marine weapons currently availabe (those chainswords are off the hook!). I also really like the rather economical design of the jump pack, but then, I’ve always been a fan of the Pre-Heresy jet engine design ;-)

As an aside: While, as a follower of Khorne, I loathe all Slaneeshi dogs with a passion, those shoulder pads and helmets with the speaker-like design should work really well for kitbashing Noise Marines.

“You get some neat extra bitz…”

It’s great to see that the kit comes with a full set of weapon options for the Raptors: No more scrounging around for extra Meltaguns or having to use the same old weapon bit over and over. All of the weapons are very nicely detailed and have a distinct chaos look. The same goes for the Warp Talon claws (which could also be used as Lightning claws on regular infantry champions, Chosen etc.). And the fact that it’s a combi-kit means that you’ll get quite a few leftover bitz: Depending on which unit type you decide to build, you get a full set of Raptor weapons and heads or Warp Talon claws and heads for your bitzbox. Nice.


Cons:


“…but maybe not enough!”

Here’s the thing about those bitz though: I was a little disappointed at the relatively small selection of heads. While I understand that the kit has to be quite economically designed to carry enough bitz for both unit types, I am just a fan of extra heads and shoulderpads: just five heads and one set of shoulder pads per model? Come on, GW! Admittedly, this may just be nitpicking on my part, but still…


“A little restrictive…”

Here’s a piece of more substantial criticism then: I feel that some of the poses on these models aren’t all that well conceived. You probably won’t notice this when building Raptors, but for the Warp Talons it’s actually fairly challenging to have them look as dynamic and individual as you would like. I discovered this when I tried to go against the grain and build models that looked a little different from the ones on the box: While it’s possible, you’ll quickly discover that certain combinations just don’t work out, leaving you with a limited number of options. Granted, if you just want to get your models on the table, you probably won’t see this as much of a problem. But as someone who is very much into kitbashing and converting, I cannot help but feel that these models don’t lend themselves to conversion all that much. And while I like the fact that the models’ legs are attached in rather dynamic ways to small piles of rubble and battlefield debris, the designs can quickly become repetitive once you are building squads that are bigger than five models.

I realise that this may not even be valid criticism for some: The models look great and are easy to put together. What’s not to like, right? But I somehow feel that this kit seems to actively confound converters, and I’m not sure I like that

“Some smaller design flaws”

Again, this is only a matter of personal taste, but I think that the design for the Warp Talon parts is slightly weaker in some respects: Most of the heads look really clunky and slightly out of scale. And while it’s nice to get a full set of sharp talons for the models’ feet, you’ll need to do some cutting on these to make sure they look natural, instead of jutting out at an improbable 90 degrees angle.


So what’s the bottom line?

All in all, I am prepared to call this kit a success, in spite of some nitpicks. It’s is expertly designed and lets you build some great looking models for your chaos army. The accomplished converter will be able to work around the small problems, and you’ll be able to make those Raptors and Warp Talons look like they are actually a part of your Traitor Legion or Renegade Chapter!

That’s what I set out to do as well: I decided to assemble the squad as Warp Talons, if only because I already have quite a few Raptors in my army. Not feeling particularly keen on the devolved, daemonic nature of the Warp Talons (it is a cool concept, but it doesn’t fit my personal fluff all that well), I wanted to build a squad of World Eaters melee specialists with jump packs. Here’s a look at my models:



This was one of the models where the basic pose of the legs combined with the Warp Talon arms seems a little goofy. It took some dryfitting and thinking to sort things out. Ultimately, I am rather pleased with the model, though. In this particular instance, the feet needed a little work (I cut off a part of the soles) to make surethat the angle at which the talons connect to the feet looks natural.



I gave this guy a FW berzerker helmet, since it added to the viciousness of the model’s look. Plus I wanted these guys to be clearly recognisable as World Eaters.



This second guy is the other model that took a while to get right: Although the legs are pretty cool this time, the arms are designed to be pretty close to the body, which makes for pretty restrictive posing. While I would have preferred a more open pose for the arms, the finished model shows the combination that, in my opinion, worked best under the circumstances.



I expect the fine detail on the model’s torso and left arm to be a challenge to paint, though, due to the fact that there is very little room between the torso and left gauntlet. But oh well…

Again, I used a Khornate helmet — this time, it’s one of from the plastic berzerker kit.

The next two models are where I just gave up and built them “as intended”



In this case, the legs and arms work very well together, creating a relaxed but quite menacing pose (not unlike the Chaos Lord with jump pack , by the way). Compared to the ‘Eavy Metal model, I changed the alignment of the torso and arms a bit, though, to make the pose just a tiny bit more interesting. And I added yet another berzerker head. I realise that many are quite tired of these, but I think in this case the head works rather nicely!



Then there’s this guy, who is basically a perfect emulation of the unit champ built by the ‘Eavy Metal team:





What can I say? I just liked the pose and the head a lot!

And finally, probably my favourite model in the whole squad:







It took some time to sort the pose out, but it was well worth it in my opinion. The model looks quite threatening and dynamic at the same time. Yet what really sells this guy is the addition of yet another Khornate FW head: This guy looks soooo angry…

And here’s the whole squad together:



I have not yet decided whether to use the “blade vanes” that attach to the jump packs. While those may seem a little silly at first glance, they could be rather useful in giving the models a more unique silhouette. Hmmm….

Also, it’s basically anyone’s guess when I’ll actually get around to painting these…

Anything else? Oh, yes, the jump packs on these guys are quite a bit smaller than you would expect! Here’s a comparison shot with one of my kitbashed Raptors (using a MaxMini jump pack):



As you can see, the MaxMini pack looks pretty clunky by comparison, while the new model’s silhouette is far less bulky than you would have suspected.

So, one last question remains: Raptors of Warp Talons?

While the answer to that question will ultimately depend on what is the more sensible choice in the context of your army, let me look at things from a modelling perspective:

The Raptors you can build from this kit will work great out of the box, with very little extra work required. You get lots of options, and the squad can be made to look like a external cult or like your own Traitor Legion’s dedicated jump infantry. They’ll also look good alongside your older models, even though they may be a bit more detailed.

The Warp Talons suffer from their rather restrictive poses and will need more work and maybe an influx of external bitz to truly make them shine. Still, their rather distinct silhouette and overall look make them visually interesting, and those clawed gaunzlets are really great. They are also a great modelling option for Night Lords, in my opinion.

In any case, quite a nice kit that gives you a lot of options. The smaller drawbacks shouldn’t keep you from giving this kit a try!

Do you have any thoughts on the kit or my first test models? I’d be glad to hear them!

As always, thanks for looking and stay tuned for more!

Looking good!

Is there a chance of a full army pic?

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Is there a chance of a full army pic?

Oh, there already was one! Take a look here, towards the bottom of the page.

Hope this helps!

Some of the warp talon poses look like the Thriller Dance. I really like them! The Khorne heads do add a lot to the model!

 KrautScientist wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Is there a chance of a full army pic?

Oh, there already was one! Take a look here, towards the bottom of the page.

Hope this helps!

Thanks! That really is quite the impressive army, well done!

Thanks for the wrap up on the Raptors/Warp Talons. I actually was quite curious about several of the points you mentioned. Your talons came out looking pretty menacing!

Hmm. I don't know which are better in game, but I think standard raptors with chainaxes and pistols would be cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I think the packs need the little winglets.

I want to get some of those Raptors for christmas plastic is where its at for me as well and all the parts can make cutomising fun and interesting.

As always Kraut good work mate look forward to the next installment...

Thanks for the shout out buddy, for your new Raptors I have to say I like them all BUT I will make a teeny suggestion. The first guy I really like the movement in his pose but I think it would look better if his head was turned more to his left (our right) I think this could give him the look of just landing and spotting his next target. The other suggestion is th eguy with the plastic zerker head, the visor one not the skull one. Again all I think you need is to turn the head to the left and you'll give the impression he's just about to take off. I would maybe also use one of the other zerker heads maybe the same one your Icon Bearer has in your other squad of Raptors? These are just suggestions tell me to bugg off if you like PS Ive ordered parts to have a go at my own WE Raptors as well. Just enough for a test model but we will see where that leads.

Hey mate, just wanted to say (after finally going through all the pages of this blog) that your army is awesome! Khorne is my favourite Chaos god and looking at this thread makes me want to do up my own Khorne-based army. I really love your Chaos Spawn conversion in particular. They're just plain awesome, and really mesh well with the look and feel of your army. Dont be surprised if I steal your ideas in the future

Very nice, KS, though I agree with you that the arms on the first two could be more open. Nice write up on the kit, too.

As awesome as the Warp Talon kit bashes are, some of them do look a little bit like they're dancing.

D

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

I agree that some of the poses may still need some finetuning.

@ Biohazard: Brilliant idea, buddy! While the guy with the "visor helmet" starts looking (even more) awkward once you change the position of the head, the model with the FW head was instantly improved 100% by following your suggestion. Will post a picture soon!

Good thing I didn't glue in the heads yet

Glad to hear its helped. I think the visro guy needs to be looking up a bit as well and maybe use one of the slimmer Khorne headdresses if you get me.

Ps I finally got around to posting those bits out to you on Thursday so you should have them soon, sorry for the delay. Lookimg forward to what you come up with. All Ill say is for a human the guys HUGE!