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 Cyporiean wrote:
Its mostly that the plastic goblins were a PITA to assemble.

Really? They are hard plastic, any pegs that don't fit in the hole just get clipped off, the glue then melts the styrene. I agree with timetowaste85, any problems with the goblins are subjective.

 JoshInJapan wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Its mostly that the plastic goblins were a PITA to assemble.

Really? They are hard plastic, any pegs that don't fit in the hole just get clipped off, the glue then melts the styrene. I agree with timetowaste85, any problems with the goblins are subjective.

When you have to do that to every goblin, yes, that can be considered a pain in the ass.

Same can be said of the Twilight Kin models.

 JoshInJapan wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Its mostly that the plastic goblins were a PITA to assemble.

I agree with timetowaste85, any problems with the goblins are subjective.

Well the soft detailing on the goblins aren't subjective.

NTRabbit wrote:
The Basileans and Goblins happened because of a very specific set of circumstances relating to shoddy work by the factory and poor oversight from Mantic. They fixed those for Deadzone, and we've had the excellent terrain already, and the improved restic formula for the first wave of troops - the Deadzone hard plastic will start arriving end of July, so provided DKQ doesn't start and end before then, judge them on their most recent attempt at mini creation

If Wave 1 of Deadzone was supposed to be the best restic mix Mantic have done I dread to think what their first attempts were like.

I have to agree there.

I'm not sure if Mantic said that before, during or after, or at all though!

http://manticblog.com/2014/06/23/dkq-abandon-hope-all-ye-who-enter-here/


Barbarian (higher resolution at original link)


Wizard (higher resolution at original link)

Same plastic as Mars attacks? Those came out pretty well didn't they?

willb2064 wrote:

NTRabbit wrote:
The Basileans and Goblins happened because of a very specific set of circumstances relating to shoddy work by the factory and poor oversight from Mantic. They fixed those for Deadzone, and we've had the excellent terrain already, and the improved restic formula for the first wave of troops - the Deadzone hard plastic will start arriving end of July, so provided DKQ doesn't start and end before then, judge them on their most recent attempt at mini creation

If Wave 1 of Deadzone was supposed to be the best restic mix Mantic have done I dread to think what their first attempts were like.

The first restic miniatures I remember Mantic releasing (I think Scarletsquig will be the go to source to confirm, or otherwise, this) were the exact copies of the metal Revenant knights for the Undead range, and they were excellent. If anything the material got worse after that, and is now on an upward curve. Then again it tends to be better for larger miniatures (bar the Deadzone Ork Guntrakk) and straight edges rather than organic shapes, for example the Obsidian Golems are great. Then again i am not sure what material DKQ will be in.

I like everything I have seen for DKQ thus far, I look forward to it. I think that Mantic have learned that as many completed sculpts as possible is the best way for miniature game kickstarters.

I love the idea of having a two layered box, with the casual and full games in there.

I was getting a little bit concerned that they were sticking to only having the four heroes, but Ronnie did say that you get to use more amongst the stuff under the trapdoor.

Plus, I get to sing "Don't you open that trapdoor!" when I get it!

 Chillreaper wrote:
I love the idea of having a two layered box, with the casual and full games in there.

I was getting a little bit concerned that they were sticking to only having the four heroes, but Ronnie did say that you get to use more amongst the stuff under the trapdoor.

Plus, I get to sing "Don't you open that trapdoor!" when I get it!

"Because there's something down there..."

There was either mention or a sculpt shown of a ninja I believe...

Then again, ninjas are always hiding in strange nooks and crannies, so I wouldn't be surprised to find one taped to the underside of the box divider or something.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:

willb2064 wrote:

NTRabbit wrote:
The Basileans and Goblins happened because of a very specific set of circumstances relating to shoddy work by the factory and poor oversight from Mantic. They fixed those for Deadzone, and we've had the excellent terrain already, and the improved restic formula for the first wave of troops - the Deadzone hard plastic will start arriving end of July, so provided DKQ doesn't start and end before then, judge them on their most recent attempt at mini creation

If Wave 1 of Deadzone was supposed to be the best restic mix Mantic have done I dread to think what their first attempts were like.

The first restic miniatures I remember Mantic releasing (I think Scarletsquig will be the go to source to confirm, or otherwise, this) were the exact copies of the metal Revenant knights for the Undead range, and they were excellent. If anything the material got worse after that, and is now on an upward curve. Then again it tends to be better for larger miniatures (bar the Deadzone Ork Guntrakk) and straight edges rather than organic shapes, for example the Obsidian Golems are great.

All correct, the earlier restic stuff like the Undead knights. wraiths, and even stuff like the Warpath Corporation marines is extremely well-cast. Sharp detail, hardly any mould lines, almost no warping on most parts.

Better than any Dreadball or Deadzone cast. DZ restic casting still sucks massively, I have a few models that have faces with zero detail on them, the nose just mushes into a largely blank face with only a rounded divot where a sculpted eye should be.

I have no idea what screwed up the material, possibly it's the factory not taking their time with tooling the moulds and casting it like they did when Mantic was just ordering very small production runs... it seems like they started massively half-arsing the job as soon as the Dreadball KS came out.

The restic 2.0 stuff used in Loka and Mars attacks (and DBX) should be okay, hard to tell until we get the minis, but its a different manufacturer and one that hopefully will have better consistency, the best we have to go by for the moment is this Mars Attacks production sculpt, (posting the washed pic since it's the best representation of the detail):



The plastic used is apparently a little different from that in Loka, since they've gone for something a bit harder that takes detail better (while still being the same sort of "soft" plastic).

I'm hoping this means that the material ends up similar to AT-43 plastics, those were rather nice solid pieces of well-detailed plastic.

If the material checks out, I'd be happy for Mantic to start doing pre-paints. But for now "no assembly" is a good enough start.

One possible concern is the quality of that pre-assembly.. I know I have a few Loka pieces glued on off-centre on their bases, and this other pic of the production models isn't encouraging (the one on the right):



They really need to avoid a situation where people are prying stuff apart and re-gluing, which that mini on the right would need, I think.

I have to say - the detail seems exceedingly soft on all of their heads - the one on the (our) far left being particularly bad.

Like, they're fine for boardgame pieces, but awful if we're going to call them "miniatures".

 Azazelx wrote:
I have to say - the detail seems exceedingly soft on all of their heads - the one on the (our) far left being particularly bad.

Like, they're fine for boardgame pieces, but awful if we're going to call them "miniatures".

Yep, provided it's not just out of focus or something, then that is very poor.

Soooo I don't wanna take thei risk. I'm gonna buy them when they're out and if they turn out okay but otherwise, nah.

 Azazelx wrote:
I have to say - the detail seems exceedingly soft on all of their heads - the one on the (our) far left being particularly bad.

Like, they're fine for boardgame pieces, but awful if we're going to call them "miniatures".

The washed model looks to have good detail though - and those models are a slightly smaller scale aren't they?

I find the washed model's head/brain detail to be pretty shallow/soft, actually.

How easy is it to break the arms on the Mars Attack's Martian miniatures that were gllued out of place?

So.. I haven't played any of the other Dwarf Kings Hold games.. is it more of a dungeon crawly adventure game like Descent or Warhammer Quest? Or more like a skirmish game in a dungeon?

 tgmoore wrote:
How easy is it to break the arms on the Mars Attack's Martian miniatures that were gllued out of place?

I don't think any of the MA stuff is 'out in the wild' yet

which is why pictures of badly glued stuff is worrying as you'd expect the factory to have been most careful about the stuff they are sending in for inspection/approval by Mantic than the huge run off stuff for fulfilment/general release

 Necros wrote:
So.. I haven't played any of the other Dwarf Kings Hold games.. is it more of a dungeon crawly adventure game like Descent or Warhammer Quest? Or more like a skirmish game in a dungeon?

The original versions were more like a dungeon-skirmish, from my understanding - a slightly asymmetrical, scenario-based 1v1 fight.

This version is more of a Descent-alike (many players vs. a DM, played competitively) but with the option of co-op vs. AI. The designer has said that he's not a fan of completely pure co-op though, so expect some competitive element within that (e.g. nicking gear before other people can get to it).

It is most like Warhammer Quest in that in the single game box there is both the 'casual' game (fixed scenarios, characters, with a narrative that introduces elements in increasing complexity) and the 'full' version with a campaign mode and statlines for monsters not in the box.

Co-op vs. AI is confirmed?

Damn, now it's tempting...

 tgmoore wrote:
How easy is it to break the arms on the Mars Attack's Martian miniatures that were gllued out of place?

If the glue is the same stuff as the Loka minis have... it's not coming apart. Some sort of epoxy or something.

Cool, I might get in on this one.. kind of bummed that I couldn't afford Deadzone at the time, but lately I've been enjoying the dungeony kinda games a lot.

Bioptic wrote:
The designer has said that he's not a fan of completely pure co-op though, so expect some competitive element within that (e.g. nicking gear before other people can get to it).

Ugh. Guess I won't be playing this.

Coop play that's not cooperative?

If I wanted screaming, blood and broken furniture, I'd just buy monopoly. You can't beat that dick-move-to-dollar ratio if you're into competitive play.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Bioptic wrote:
The designer has said that he's not a fan of completely pure co-op though, so expect some competitive element within that (e.g. nicking gear before other people can get to it).

Ugh. Guess I won't be playing this.

Coop play that's not cooperative?

A bit of backstabbery is always fun but it'd be nice if designers could leave their personal preferences out of it from time to time and just design other facets 'cleanly' , so to speak.

Way to jump to extremes there Bob, how can you go straight to that conclusion from just that comment?!

I'm sure there will be ways around it, and you could just agree between each other not to steal, or take it in turns with items??

Imagining someone being a ninja-looter on the old-school World of Warcraft here...

Semi co-op doesn't mean that you're going to be stabbing each other in the back all of the time. In the end, the scenario needs to be completed.

I tend to think that it just means that, yep you beat the scenario together, but there are some bigger winners than others.

Back to the WoW analogy, even on a co-operative raid, people still wanted loot at the expense of others and still wanted to top the DPS meters at the expense of others - didn't stop them from getting the job done.

 Pacific wrote:
Way to jump to extremes there Bob, how can you go straight to that conclusion from just that comment?!

I'm sure there will be ways around it, and you could just agree between each other not to steal, or take it in turns with items??

Maybe you have emotionally balanced friends who can pull something like that off. Co-op that encourages even the slightest amount of competition or one-upmanship might as well just be adversarial for us. If we're not able to sing Red Army hymns of brothership, then we'll be damn near screaming German.

Besides, if he wants to write co-op rules, why can't he just write co-op rules instead of half-assing it and cramming in his own personal (terrible) gaming biases into it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chillreaper wrote:

I tend to think that it just means that, yep you beat the scenario together, but there are some bigger winners than others.

So, the object of the game isn't to win by winning, but to win by winning more than the other guy? Instead of one winner beating the game, now one winner beats the game better?

For some people, "Second Place" really is synonymous with "Loser". These people tend to be sore losers. And even sorer winners.

Sometimes you have to wonder if it's not the game but the players. No offense cause my friends are the same, but there are people you can play perfectly normal coop games with that turn into brutal backstabbing games.