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 timetowaste85 wrote:
I heard horror stories about the plastic goblins. Decided to snag a box someone was offloading cheaply. Very happy with them. They look nasty and look like they fit in excellently next to night goblins, as opposed to regular GW goblins. I have 0 issue with KoW Goblins. I didn't get any with soft sculpting detail. Their MaAs though...give me a pair of clippers, different heads (Elohi work well), and some serious time and I can make them look great. But I shouldn't need to. That's the problem. They should have been good right out of the box with no modification required.

Got 150ish Mantic Goblins, no bad batch so far. Mantic Goblins just perfectly capture the Goblin spirit of poking things with shark stickz and funny grimaces.

KoW Goblins have a great style. The way Goblins sh ould look like.

Shame is, that the casting is sometimes reaalllyyy bad. Like super rounded edges and swallowed details.

Empire of dust is up:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XgQY5vVHs_V19N_2lsrpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/edit#gid=629031436

Why does the League of Rhoridia have no Swordsmen or Greatswords analogues?

The House Guard are armoured troops with either pole arms or 2-handed weapons (crushing strength).

These lists aren't straight up copy-pastes of whfb lists though so not every unit is going to map 1-1.

Its still odd that there isn't a swordsmen analogue though.

 Daedleh wrote:
Empire of dust is up:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XgQY5vVHs_V19N_2lsrpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/edit#gid=629031436

Ohmygodyes, now I can get my Tomb Kings out of the basement.

Love the list. I was going to complain about the Casket being done wrong, but then I figured out the Soul Snare is the Casket of Souls analogue and the unit upgrade Casket is something new. Cool stuff. Love the new units. Are the Husks supposed to be man-sized Ushabti? Maybe using the Crocodile Games god-headed infantry, hmm? Monolith, superb. Bone Dragon, super awesome. I can only find one thing missing from the GW range, the alternate build of the Snake Surfer models without riders. Those are supposed to have some sort of stony gaze. Wait, I get it, we just put the Dragon Breath item on the Worm Riders, right? Cool. Sorry for the rambling.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
Its still odd that there isn't a swordsmen analogue though.

Take a shieldwall from the Kingdoms of Men list?

Reanimated Behemoth! I finally have "official" rules for my war elephants! Yay!

What is the "war engine" supposed to be?

D'oh! It's a monolith. I read the wrong column.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Daedleh wrote:
Empire of dust is up:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XgQY5vVHs_V19N_2lsrpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/edit#gid=629031436

Ohmygodyes, now I can get my Tomb Kings out of the basement.

Love the list. I was going to complain about the Casket being done wrong, but then I figured out the Soul Snare is the Casket of Souls analogue and the unit upgrade Casket is something new. Cool stuff. Love the new units. Are the Husks supposed to be man-sized Ushabti? Maybe using the Crocodile Games god-headed infantry, hmm? Monolith, superb. Bone Dragon, super awesome. I can only find one thing missing from the GW range, the alternate build of the Snake Surfer models without riders. Those are supposed to have some sort of stony gaze. Wait, I get it, we just put the Dragon Breath item on the Worm Riders, right? Cool. Sorry for the rambling.

Sepulchre Stalkers and Necropolis Knights are wrapped into the same entry yes.

I do wish we didn't need to use magic items to differentiate the two, maybe I'd like to field more than one of each at some point. But 1 missing unit isn't at all bad, especially given all the new stuff.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Daedleh wrote:
Empire of dust is up:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XgQY5vVHs_V19N_2lsrpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/edit#gid=629031436

Ohmygodyes, now I can get my Tomb Kings out of the basement.

Love the list. I was going to complain about the Casket being done wrong, but then I figured out the Soul Snare is the Casket of Souls analogue and the unit upgrade Casket is something new. Cool stuff. Love the new units. Are the Husks supposed to be man-sized Ushabti? Maybe using the Crocodile Games god-headed infantry, hmm? Monolith, superb. Bone Dragon, super awesome. I can only find one thing missing from the GW range, the alternate build of the Snake Surfer models without riders. Those are supposed to have some sort of stony gaze. Wait, I get it, we just put the Dragon Breath item on the Worm Riders, right? Cool. Sorry for the rambling.

what is the monilith supposed to analogue of?

 lord marcus wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Daedleh wrote:
Empire of dust is up:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XgQY5vVHs_V19N_2lsrpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/edit#gid=629031436

Ohmygodyes, now I can get my Tomb Kings out of the basement.

Love the list. I was going to complain about the Casket being done wrong, but then I figured out the Soul Snare is the Casket of Souls analogue and the unit upgrade Casket is something new. Cool stuff. Love the new units. Are the Husks supposed to be man-sized Ushabti? Maybe using the Crocodile Games god-headed infantry, hmm? Monolith, superb. Bone Dragon, super awesome. I can only find one thing missing from the GW range, the alternate build of the Snake Surfer models without riders. Those are supposed to have some sort of stony gaze. Wait, I get it, we just put the Dragon Breath item on the Worm Riders, right? Cool. Sorry for the rambling.

what is the monilith supposed to analogue of?

Not everything is an analogue of something.

RoninXiC wrote:
KoW Goblins have a great style. The way Goblins sh ould look like.
Shame is, that the casting is sometimes reaalllyyy bad. Like super rounded edges and swallowed details.

I quite like their aesthetic. If/when they get redone with better sculpts and details I'm sure I'll pick some up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
Why does the League of Rhoridia have no Swordsmen or Greatswords analogues?

Combine/ally Rhoridia with KoM and you've got your Empire analogue.

I read about the goblin kits after ordering the starter army; have to say I am reasonably pleased with them (and very happy they are not the nightmare some people apparently went through...). Like most Mantic kits they are somewhat... mono-pose. Managed to bevel arms, heads and necks etc to get them looking somewhat varied and am quite happy with their looks and how they went together.

I have a question for all of you guys, who know much more about KoW than I do.

I have an odd idea knocking around my head. I want to get into a game that's smaller than 28mm scale, to try to get myself back into painting (was originally thinking Dropzone Commander). The hordes and hordes of guys that most games use have become a hindrance lately - with a newborn in the house to work a schedule around, plus general 30-something life going on, dozens of rank and file guys are a pain to paint. But I've always been interested in KoW/ WHFB style games of blocks of troops, but I'd rather have a game that is not as crunchy as 40K or WHFB, as much as those are my first loves. KoW actually looks like it has just the right amount of speed vs. crunch for me.

Would KoW work fine in 15mm scale? I assume all I would need to do is halve all the range and movement measurements. And because of the way that units of troops are handled, where it's the size of the formation that "really" matters, would a 15mm army set up like the picture below work suitably, (for this example as an orc army with allied goblins)?



The bases above are all 28mm cavalry-sized. From what I have read of the army lists and rules for KoW and how it doesn't require removal of models, it seems like I could use each above base as an analogy of the smallest KoW unit size (Troop), with individuals like army standards, heroes, and wizards based individually on something like a 20mmx20mm base. For example the unit of three wolves on the far left of the above pic would simply be a "troop" level unit of Gore Riders. The rest pictured would be Axers, Skulks, and allied Gobbo Sharpsticks. The large troll doesn't have a fitting profile in the free army list, but maybe in the hardcover rules that has expanded units for each army it would be a giant or a troll bruiser?

I figured any time I fielded a regiment or horde-strength unit in this 15mm setup, I would just have three bases of similar troops in a row, held together by a movement tray.

What's the opinion? The added bonus is that when adding a game to compete with the ones on my already groaning shelves (and that I have to likely paint both sides of to get a game in), an army like the one pictured above would set me back a whole 25 bucks, with additions costing 8-12 for 3-4 more bases of figures.

It works fine apparently. I haven't played it myself, but there are plenty of bat reps on the main forums of people who played the rules using that scale. From memory the only thing which really changed was swapping inches for centimetres.

 .Mikes. wrote:
It works fine apparently. I haven't played it myself, but there are plenty of bat reps on the main forums of people who played the rules using that scale. From memory the only thing which really changed was swapping inches for centimetres.

*Smack*

Duh. Me stupid American forgetting there are other things than inches. Of course I could use centimeters, because that would give close to a 50% scale and not even have to change any numbers so there'd be no confusion.

Pretty horrible when one of my favorite games are Battlefleet Gothic and confrontation, which use only centimeters.

The only change I see right off the bat is that the "scale" of the armies involved would be less- more in the dozens not hundreds. I just wanted to get an idea form others who have actually played the game, not just perused the rules like I have, if I'd run into any rules snags. Possibly the "leader point" though in casual games it'd be easy to just nominate the center of the unit base.

I'm using Arcane Legions minis and 1/72 scale minis to build my "for gaming" KoW forces, and they work pretty well. Once you cut the pegs off the bottom, the AL infantry minis have base discs the same size as Mantic minis', so you can even use Mantic bases for heroes or skirmishers.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I have a question for all of you guys, who know much more about KoW than I do.

I have an odd idea knocking around my head. I want to get into a game that's smaller than 28mm scale, to try to get myself back into painting (was originally thinking Dropzone Commander). The hordes and hordes of guys that most games use have become a hindrance lately - with a newborn in the house to work a schedule around, plus general 30-something life going on, dozens of rank and file guys are a pain to paint. But I've always been interested in KoW/ WHFB style games of blocks of troops, but I'd rather have a game that is not as crunchy as 40K or WHFB, as much as those are my first loves. KoW actually looks like it has just the right amount of speed vs. crunch for me.

Would KoW work fine in 15mm scale? I assume all I would need to do is halve all the range and movement measurements. And because of the way that units of troops are handled, where it's the size of the formation that "really" matters, would a 15mm army set up like the picture below work suitably, (for this example as an orc army with allied goblins)?



The bases above are all 28mm cavalry-sized. From what I have read of the army lists and rules for KoW and how it doesn't require removal of models, it seems like I could use each above base as an analogy of the smallest KoW unit size (Troop), with individuals like army standards, heroes, and wizards based individually on something like a 20mmx20mm base. For example the unit of three wolves on the far left of the above pic would simply be a "troop" level unit of Gore Riders. The rest pictured would be Axers, Skulks, and allied Gobbo Sharpsticks. The large troll doesn't have a fitting profile in the free army list, but maybe in the hardcover rules that has expanded units for each army it would be a giant or a troll bruiser?

I figured any time I fielded a regiment or horde-strength unit in this 15mm setup, I would just have three bases of similar troops in a row, held together by a movement tray.

What's the opinion? The added bonus is that when adding a game to compete with the ones on my already groaning shelves (and that I have to likely paint both sides of to get a game in), an army like the one pictured above would set me back a whole 25 bucks, with additions costing 8-12 for 3-4 more bases of figures.

Dont even need to half the range if you just made the unit bases the same size you could keep everything else the same because model count doesn't matter.

Keep in mind those figures are 15mm, so my whole idea would be that a range in centimeters and the units being on a 20x50mm base ( at least for troops; with multiples put side by side for regiments, hordes, and monsters/chariots on something larger) my battlefields can be on a 3'x4' table. (I use two collapsing tables that size for normal 28mm scaled 4'x6' games).

I used to play whfb in 15mm just by moving to cm. I picked up a dwarf army at salute this year to play KoW in 10mm. Switching to cm at 10mm is closer to a match on model and movement scaling the same.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Keep in mind those figures are 15mm, so my whole idea would be that a range in centimeters and the units being on a 20x50mm base ( at least for troops; with multiples put side by side for regiments, hordes, and monsters/chariots on something larger) my battlefields can be on a 3'x4' table. (I use two collapsing tables that size for normal 28mm scaled 4'x6' games).

As said above, there are two options others have already achieved success with

1) Drop the measurements to centimetres, and scale down the bases sizes by 50%, ie a 100x40mm infantry troop base becomes 50x20mm. That way you can play a normal points game on a coffee table, or use the usual 6x4 to play a mega point game

2) Just use tiny scale mans on the normal base sizes - you get to paint the 15/10/6mm scale mans (Microworlds are really popular on another forum I'm on) you want to paint and rank up, and because they're on the standard base sizes you can still play them against people rocking the usual 28mm stuff

3) Do the best of both worlds - base everything using option 1 so you can play on a coffee table against someone else also using the shrunk scale, and buy movement trays so you cando option 2 and put 4x 15mm troops together to make a 28mm troop (and the rest) when Gulliver comes to town

Unfortunately I'll never have to worry about playing KoW against anyone using 28mm models- the closest LGS to me is 25 miles away, and doesn't even have a single game table. Other than my wife, the nearest buddy I have that is interested at all in a mass combat miniatures game like WHFB/40K is a 45 minute drive away. So any models that will be hitting my table (both sides) will be bought and painted by me, for which 15mm scale with 3-4 men on a base representing a 'troop' paints up nice and fast.

Believe me, painting just a single force for personal use and then meeting up with a cool gaming group is a long-held dream of mine.

Using a smaller scale would work absolutely fine. So long as you keep the base sizes consistent within your chosen scale (Regiment=2 Troops deep, Horde=2Deep, 2 Wide) then you'll have no trouble!

If heroes and other single minis start looking odd, just add more minis! Your 'hero' becomes a General and his honour guard, your 'wizard' is actually a conclave of sorcerers, your army standard has men to protect it ect.

I've been looking over the rules and army lists, and one thing randomly stood out to me.

While I admittedly am very new to the game, does anyone else think the attacks on the Elven Hunters of the Wild seem way too high? Just a basic 10-man troop has 20 attacks, with a regiment only having 5 more than that? That seems like a ton at the bottom end, without much scaling at the top end, compared to all the other units.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I've been looking over the rules and army lists, and one thing randomly stood out to me.

While I admittedly am very new to the game, does anyone else think the attacks on the Elven Hunters of the Wild seem way too high? Just a basic 10-man troop has 20 attacks, with a regiment only having 5 more than that? That seems like a ton at the bottom end, without much scaling at the top end, compared to all the other units.

Troop -> Regiment doesn't generally add too much statwise aside from nerve. Regiments add a ton of army composition benefits though.

It's a unit of angry fae. It looks like a lot, but the damage output is in line with similarly priced units.

It's normal for Regiments to have only 20% more attacks than Troops. The frontage doesn't increase, unlike the shift from Regiment to Horde, where the frontage doubles.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

It's normal for Regiments to have only 20% more attacks than Troops. The frontage doesn't increase, unlike the shift from Regiment to Horde, where the frontage doubles.

To think of it in 'real' terms, it's only the front two ranks that can actually reach the enemy to fight, no matter how deep the unit is. What the guys on the 3rd+ rank contribute is more sheer bulk and mass to the unit, and more men to step up and fill the gaps as the ones actually in combat get cut down, both of which are represented by the larger Nerve stats, since they make the formation harder to break.

On the other hand, a Horde again only has the front ranks fighting, but there are twice as many guys in those ranks, hence the greater number of attacks. Meanwhile, the extra guys in the back contribute again to the greater Nerve.

I think I was just surprised by the 20 attacks of the troop, compared to other units. I guess it's the balance of the cost and the loss of Elite?