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 Azazelx wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

Existing forces: depending on which day of the month it is, and whether there was 3cm or 4cm of rainfall in Scotland, the answer is either or , so TBC, but the last stuff I saw was somewhere between "not really" and "very much no".

I mean in terms of playing "Orcs vs Romans" and having the point costs worked out using the same overall values. After all, if they'll be worked out so that the New Model Army can (theoretically, and obviously very ahistorically) fight Spartans in terms of points and rules it's not that much of a stretch to have them fight Orcs.

Because yes, I'm looking to have many more "Kingdoms of Men" and units I can dip into - to play fantasy games, historical games or interesting mixtures. Besides, I've been building a "Mythical Greek" army with both the Historical and Mythical aspects of Ancient Greece, and it'd be cooler to have actual rules for peltasts and helots and the Spartan Phalanx vs the Theban, etc in that army...

1) Man did I used to love to listen to NEW MODEL ARMY back in the day!
2) Seconded - I'd like to see a system where we can do all of that!

 Azazelx wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

Existing forces: depending on which day of the month it is, and whether there was 3cm or 4cm of rainfall in Scotland, the answer is either or , so TBC, but the last stuff I saw was somewhere between "not really" and "very much no".

I mean in terms of playing "Orcs vs Romans" and having the point costs worked out using the same overall values. After all, if they'll be worked out so that the New Model Army can (theoretically, and obviously very ahistorically) fight Spartans in terms of points and rules it's not that much of a stretch to have them fight Orcs.

Because yes, I'm looking to have many more "Kingdoms of Men" and units I can dip into - to play fantasy games, historical games or interesting mixtures. Besides, I've been building a "Mythical Greek" army with both the Historical and Mythical aspects of Ancient Greece, and it'd be cooler to have actual rules for peltasts and helots and the Spartan Phalanx vs the Theban, etc in that army...

I would say "not out of the box" based on the last draft. You could (probably) ignore the time periods and play within the book quite happily but you'd have to do a little work to mix and match with Fantasy. I doubt I have enough (read: any) influence to change this but I haven't given up yet.

Is Matt still reading here? Hopefully he's a man who can see the logic and value of having them as easily compatible as possible (potentially getting more Historical players into Mantic's fantasy models, for one thing) - and hopefully enough sway to influence something like that.

That would make sense, wouldn't it?

I can see balancing historicals "close enough" against the fantasy, but there are aspects of the fantasy lists that even other fantasy armies struggle with, like fliers and Def 6+. It's going to be really difficulty to balance what are essentially variations on the Kingdoms of men list (without monsters) against the rest of the fantasy armies.

Balancing historicals against each other allows for more differentiation, which isn't something that the KoW rules only allow in broad strokes.

 Azazelx wrote:
Is Matt still reading here? Hopefully he's a man who can see the logic and value of having them as easily compatible as possible (potentially getting more Historical players into Mantic's fantasy models, for one thing) - and hopefully enough sway to influence something like that.

I don't personally see a lot of value in it... for myself I would actually prefer historicals and KoW to remain as separate as possible. The fantasy setting of Mantica is already a little more generic than I'd like, and while I think adding in Uncharted Empires had a lot of value because they were targeting a market that could get into KoW proper (models, world and everything!) I don't think the same is true of historicals.

And as Polonius mentions, I think balancing could be difficult if needing to take into account all the current KoW factions, and still allow enough differentiation between various kingdoms of men to make sense for a historical game.

Yeah, I'd rather historicals be their own thing and for Mantic to focus on fleshing out Kings of War on it's own. Historical armies exist if you want them to at this point because you can use pretty much anything to represent your units. We don't need to try to wedge historicals into a fantasy world that isn't predominantly human.

By all means release the book because it might net you some sales and the game system is solid. But don't wedge it into Kings of War proper.

Are the core rules changing (aside from removing things like magic and flyers)? If not, then I don't see why the lists would develop on a different baseline than the core armies.

But the one piece of factual info everyone has is that there's no factual info

right?

Obviously I don't expect Saxons and Plantagenets to be inserted into Mantic's fantasy world. I'd just like to see them balanced against each other using the same overall core points, as Decker_cky has suggested. A "Close enough" kind of pretty compatible without much work as Polonius states is obviously the best that we can likely hope for, which is all I'm asking.

Seems more like just a way of expanding Kingdoms of Men into a variety of different flavoured subsets?

Yes and no. Yes if you approach it from a purely "fantasy gamer" perspective. But really, it's a way of expanding the Kings of War ruleset into the historical realm to broaden it's appeal, as your average Historical gamer isn't likely to buy the KoW fantasy rulebook and try to make up their own lists for their forces, but are often more likely to pick up an interesting and/or well-reviewed ruleset.

Especially so as historical gamers are more likely then the average fantasy gamer to have their minis from a variety of manufacturers and own/play several different rulesets anyway.

 scarletsquig wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Some of their stuff is getting better, thankfully. The Lizardmans from the KoW KS are quite nice. Nice enough ti prompt me to buy two of the GW "Start Collecting: Seraphon" boxes. Add those to the Mantic Lizards and the stuff I already had, and now I've got a Lizardmans army for KoW. Only some of it is Mantic models, but it's an improvement on many of their other lines.

The problem is that they're not consistent, and I'm now too cautious to lay money down on anything that's not a HIPS render. Trusting them on anything resin just went out the window with the recent WP stuff, and their new boardgame plastic isn't something I can trust after my DS experience. Even if people who haven't actually fixed their warped models yet "don't anticipate any problems".

So.. yeah. HIPS or GTFO.

The new KoW kits are fantastic, really happy with the Abyssal army I'm building at the moment. Best models Mantic have released in a very long time and mark a return to the quality of the Undead miniatures line.

I have to agree that HIPS is king, both in terms of value and quality, which is why I've gone ahead with the Shieldwolf KS as a way of adding to the abyssal army (Orcs as abyssal warriors, Xena girls for mortals and Varagnur allies).

The more non-GW manufacturers the better, really. With the amount of army lists now available, KoW can take pretty much any fantasy mini from any manufacturer that you throw at it, and provides a lot of flexibility for making any fantasy army you want to make.

I am enjoying some arguments with my good lady, in regards to what we need to get for the army. (I want cavalry - she wants more Molochs and characters. Odds are that we will both get our ways....)

The Auld Grump - getting both increases flexibility, always good in KoW.

Does anyone know when the 2 goblin armies are going to be released? They are up for pre-order but now release date that I can find. As far as I can tell all the individual components are already out just not the combination box sets.

 Azazelx wrote:


Obviously I don't expect Saxons and Plantagenets to be inserted into Mantic's fantasy world. I'd just like to see them balanced against each other using the same overall core points, as Decker_cky has suggested. A "Close enough" kind of pretty compatible without much work as Polonius states is obviously the best that we can likely hope for, which is all I'm asking.

I can definitely imagine it being a similar sort of system. After all, Mantic have plugged a fair amount of work into KoW, playtesting and rule amendments, it would make sense for them to use something similar rather than a complete re-design. If they do this, it's a simple step for crossover.

And, there is a precedent for this in historical gaming (more common than you would think).

As it stood when the RC last saw them, the historicals are just army lists, no changes to the core rules.

Alessio spoke a bit on the historical lists on a podcast. CoundetchargeX 11: http://www.ohiohammer.com/counter-chargeccx/2016/1/24/cc-11-a-kings-destiny

Lists from different historical periods between Ancient times to War of the roses. Same core rules. Inclusion of famous generals as Special characters (Saladin, Alexander the great etc.)

Instead of magic items, skills can be bought to units, making them more elite. Presumably giving them one or few of the games basic special rules (Elite, Vicious, Headstrong etc.)

I feel that it might be difficult to have meaningful variation between all these armies. But that's normal in historical games I suppose and it's more about theming the army yourself through your choices of units. And I guess the supplement is mostly about enticing historical gamers to try out the KoW ruleset with their existing armies, and perhaps lure some into doing a fantasy army as well later.

AdamBridger wrote:
Does anyone know when the 2 goblin armies are going to be released? They are up for pre-order but now release date that I can find. As far as I can tell all the individual components are already out just not the combination box sets.

I think they are shipping them now. Sometimes it takes a few days for the Mantic web site to catch up with the release dates and they are shown as Pre-order for a week or two after release.

This comes from the release schedule sent to retailers.

Jan 25th MGKWG100 KOW Goblin Starter Force $84.99 20 Spitters, 20 Rabble, 20 Sharpsticks, 10 Fleabag Riders and Goblin Mincer
Jan 25th MGKWG105 KOW Goblin Mega Force $174.99 40 Spitters, 40 Rabble, 40 Sharpsticks, 20 Fleabag Riders, 6 Trolls, 2 Goblin Mincers and 3 Goblin Heroes

Personally I'm looking forward to the KoW releases on Mar 21st - that could be an expensive month for me.

Not sure if this is a news or rumor, per se, but does anyone have any experience with http://www.tabletopnow.com/ ? They seem to be a 3rd party etailer. I ask if anyone has dealt with them as they have some solid prices for kings of war but seem fairly new and/or untested.

Whats coming out in march again?

Any word on retail Nature Mega Starter?


...what does it contain again?

I have finally, after months of back and forth, received some stuff from the Dungeon Saga Kickstarter. And it's all the wrong stuff...

Can someone tell me if the Collector's Edition hardback was actually made? I've been sent a copy of the Adventurer's companion instead, and I'm not sure if that's what the CE book 'ended up' as.

Oh, and STILL no Kings of War product.

Yeah, the "Collectors edition" was turned into a hardback AC. So that *is* correct... or as correct as everyone elses, anyway.

I also haven't received any KoW2 stuff. I submitted a ticket and haven't had any response other than the automatic receipt of ticket message.

It is shocking that people are still waiting for KOW2 stuff to arrive, how long ago was "fulfillment"? That is why I do not back Mantic Kickstarters any more. Just a shame that there have been a number of apologetic blog posts but still nothing is done.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I also haven't received any KoW2 stuff. I submitted a ticket and haven't had any response other than the automatic receipt of ticket message.

I got my main pledge, but I've been told twice now that the missing movement trays were shipped out. I don't know if they're simply lying at this point, but I've:
1) submitted a ticket
2) emailed back and forth with Rich Armstrong multiple times
3) raised the issue on their Facebook page, and was assured that they would look into it.

I'm tempted to simply buy them retail somewhere, because I need them!

Part of the issue seems to be they keep selling out of stuff that really should be reserved for replacing broken/missing items

and the other part is in the long wait for more to arrive they don't seem to be able to keep track of who they owe what to

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Part of the issue seems to be they keep selling out of stuff that really should be reserved for replacing broken/missing items

and the other part is in the long wait for more to arrive they don't seem to be able to keep track of who they owe what to

From a purely amoral standpoint, it actually makes sense to keep things in stock, and generate sales/buzz. Sure, it means that kickstarter backers wait even longer, but they already have our money, and we're reliable customers already.

 Polonius wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I also haven't received any KoW2 stuff. I submitted a ticket and haven't had any response other than the automatic receipt of ticket message.

I got my main pledge, but I've been told twice now that the missing movement trays were shipped out. ...//...
I'm tempted to simply buy them retail somewhere, because I need them!

You can buy custom sizes at http://war-bases.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=68_96 for a suspiciously similar price (or cheaper). I haven't seen both versions together so for all I know, it might even be the same product. I assume that Mantic order those trays in bulk rather than keep their own laser cutter just for moving trays.

If you ever get those missing trays, well you can never have too many moving trays. There's always a new army waiting to be built.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I also haven't received any KoW2 stuff. I submitted a ticket and haven't had any response other than the automatic receipt of ticket message.

I'm still waiting on my initial pledge as well. Though I've been...compensated. Can't say more.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I also haven't received any KoW2 stuff. I submitted a ticket and haven't had any response other than the automatic receipt of ticket message.

I'm still waiting on my initial pledge as well. Though I've been...compensated. Can't say more.

How did you manage that? Did you sue Kevin Siembieda?