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Hopefully there will be some new models I can use with older editions. I am remarkably happy with how good a simple Guardian "becomes" when using 2nd edition rules versus the current rules.

 Kroothawk wrote:

- Autarchs take Paths. These represent completed paths they have walked and are tied to the various aspects. By taking a path you make the respective aspect warrior a troop choice (the exception are reapers who just become scoring)

So I could actually bring a Stormwind?!

I just hope they do something to offset the short range of the shuriken catapult. My friend who just picked up Eldar "for fluff reasons" might not last long otherwise.

Why not just can the entire idea of guardians? You could still leave in some fluff reference to how occasionally civilian eldar are conscripted if the craftworld is under direct attack, but there doesn't need to be two units dedicated to it. More than that, actually since all the vehicles are supposedly driven by guardians. But they don't need to be an actual unit. Gav has come out, years ago, and said that he regrets the entire focus on and expansion of the guardians in the 3rd ed codex. It didn't make sense 15 years ago, and it's still dumb. Just drop them entirely from the book, but include a troops choice of corsairs-- they can use the same miniatures. I mean, how often in the background do we hear about these corsairs? And they aren't represented in any codex outside of FW. That's dumb.

I'm optimistic about the book. Really Eldar have been stagnant since 3rd ed. It got worse when the craftworld book was replaced by the 4th ed codex and all the craftworlds lost their flavor and special abilities. Hopefully with a return to the background driven game play we have seen this edition (at least for Dark Angels) some of that will return. I'm not so much worried about them being a power army, but they are just so bland and undifferentiated right now. Even their background is a mess- it hasn't been updated when it is crucial to the background of the entire universe.

Eldar weren't my first army, but I've had them since I could roll on the disruption table with my rangers and pathfinders were an elite choice. I just want to see a diversity of rules and the ability to really make a unique army, regardless of how powerful it is. I am hoping this one falls on the Dark Angels side of the fence, not the Chaos Space Marines side-- another army that has been really languishing since midway through third edition. At least armories are starting to make a comeback. With that in mind, the initial rumors seem spot on with what I would hope would happen with the army. The newer rumours, less so. GW has to realize that nothing will expand the player base like a really successful Eldar Codex though.

The Craftworlds didn't lose their special abilities. You can still run Seer Council, Wraithguard Troops, Jetbike Troops, Pathfinders, and tons of Aspect Warriors. Court of the Young King is the only thing you can't run.

Really, GW did the thing they should have done with all the Space Marine lists and just consolidated every Eldar Craftworld into one codex.

 Absolutionis wrote:
The Craftworlds didn't lose their special abilities. You can still run Seer Council, Wraithguard Troops, Jetbike Troops, Pathfinders, and tons of Aspect Warriors. Court of the Young King is the only thing you can't run.

Really, GW did the thing they should have done with all the Space Marine lists and just consolidated every Eldar Craftworld into one codex.

What about my Ranger Disruption Table? Huh? HUH? That rule was fun for everyone!

Don't agree at all.

Ulthwe lost black guardians, which was a major part of their background and playing style

Alaitoc lost the disruption table and the abilities of pathfinders were seriously nerfed by moving them from elites to troops, which I didn't understand since there was already an outcast troops choice... rangers.

Biel Tan? Seriously? They could take aspect warriors as troops. Oooo I guess they can take dire avengers as troops now. Be still my heart. Major nerf, made the army literally unplayable- not from a balance perspective it just literally wasn't possible.

There was way more to the craftworld lists than what you mentioned. Also... in the third edition codex, all Craftworld eldar were consolidated into one codex... funnily enough called 'Craftworld Eldar'. So, don't really understand your point there. Even in one codex they had far more dimension than they do now.

As much as I hate it, GW will probably stop releasing new space marines every 10 minutes when they stop being able to cash in so easily doing it. Look at the work they put in on DE, and I still get the feeling that financially that wasn't even a fraction of the money Space Wolves brought in, who got what, like 2 new plastic kits?

 Silverthorne wrote:
Don't agree at all.
As much as I hate it, GW will probably stop releasing new space marines every 10 minutes when they stop being able to cash in so easily doing it. Look at the work they put in on DE, and I still get the feeling that financially that wasn't even a fraction of the money Space Wolves brought in, who got what, like 2 new plastic kits?

Indeed, two kits, with two more released a couple years laterish. Plus metal characters, were a few of those. GW will always be able to rake in cash from Marines though, from the sci-fi prospective they're a great entry point.

While I really want a new Eldar book I expect Craftworld specific rules just as we go Chaos Legion rules, or more specifically I'm not expecting them. Think I'll at least be happy to be able to play my Eldar like I could in 5th as 6th just seemed to kill some of the fun for them. Toss in the more gear centricness of CSM/DA and some better pricing/rules and I guess I would be happy. Of course more would be nice.

yeah,
Dark/Craftworld Combined Codex!

Panic...

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
Dark/Craftworld Combined Codex!

Panic...

Huh?

Why? DE just got their codex.

Unless... I'm missing something here?

Wait, what? It would make more sense to delete Guardians completely from the new codex, when GW could simply up the range of their Catapults back to 24" like 2nd edition and then keep them as part of the army list? That's insanity.

In other things:

Other than Guardian squads having integrated heavy weapon platforms, the 2nd edition Eldar codex was by far the best Eldar Codex, for options, balanced points costs, fluff etc.

The 4th edition codex is second best, if only because the unbalanced points values for some of the units in the 3rd ed/Craftworld books, along with the huge nerf to Shuriken Catapult/Cannon ranges (which obviously still exists), bent everything far too much against the Eldar player.

The 4th ed isn't not the best, but when some of the units got their points costs nearly halved from 3rd edition, and players still think they are worthless, it's a pretty telling factor.

If Eldar had been given anywhere near the material Space Marines have gotten over the years, they wouldn't even need a new book.

Hoping there arent any huge structure changes in the book.
Just seems i go with a weird or unusual army list an it them becomes illegal within a year lol.

Currently like playing my wraithguard list, more so with all the draigo wing armies still about.

Just swap guardians for corsairs, use the same models change the rules. Guardians are clunky, rules wise, they don't really make sense within the larger background either. It would be like it the primary troop choice for Imperial Guard was a mob of civilians with improvised weapons. Do they see action? Sure, probably a fair bit-- but there isn't a need to represent that in the game. Meanwhile corsairs are the primary actual combatant of Eldar if you go off the background-- especially in terms of which eldar you are most likely to be in a scuffle with. But they aren't represented at all- whereas guardians, who shouldn't really be deployed outside of major, existential crises, are. It's an easy fix, just change the rules to make them corsairs, they can use the same models, but take different upgrades and have 'storm' and 'defender' in the same squad.

Corsairs aren't really a Craftworld combatant. Sure, Craftworlders make use of them just as they make use of Dark Eldar and Exodites. On the actual field, though, when marshalled by Autarchs and guided by seer councils, the outcasts play a marginal role.

However, large quantities of Guardians doesn't make sense in most of the fluff, least of all the most recent. Guardians seem to be used extensively in large scale conflicts (we're talking game scales somewhere when you start thinking "maybe we should play Epic instead").
However, there are still a couple of Craftworlds and that one larger Craftworld that use them quite a bit due to being in a pressed situation...

Panic: GW is in the process of fleshing out the fluff of the various Eldar factions and the technology and society of the lesser factions are moving away from the Craftworlders. There is no indication what so ever that GW will merge them now. However, the part about more rules regarding alliance between the two does go against the credibility of the rumour since GW already has a pretty good foundation (at least in their eyes) for alliances - however, I could see that Incubi would lower the alliance quality be an actual rule.

IMHO, the simplest way to make Guardian's more viable and fluff accurate is to increase the range on their weapons (e.g. 18") and emphasise their support role. So don't allow 20-man squads (so they don't simply get used as meatshields), and promote them alongside heavy (brightlance etc.) and support (d-cannon etc.) weapons; additionally, shield emplacements, like those from DoW could help here.

I think simply cheapening them with their weak armour and weapons would simply put them into a meatshield role.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Wait, what? It would make more sense to delete Guardians completely from the new codex, when GW could simply up the range of their Catapults back to 24" like 2nd edition and then keep them as part of the army list? That's insanity.

In other things:

Other than Guardian squads having integrated heavy weapon platforms, the 2nd edition Eldar codex was by far the best Eldar Codex, for options, balanced points costs, fluff etc.

The 2nd edition Codex: Eldar was the most broken codex ever released by GW for any edition of the game, and guardians with shuricats in that book were probably the single best basic troop type ever. It certainly was the book that really established Eldar, but balance is not a word that should ever be used in connection with that book.

The 2nd edition Codex: Eldar was the most broken codex ever released by GW for any edition of the game

I highly doubt that.

As a curiosity, have there been any recent codecies with a 0-1 requirement for any non-special-character units? Perhaps bringing that back with a flavorfully "rare" unit would satisfy the desire for a 'cheap' unit and a flavorfully uncommon unit.

Then again, I want to call it now. GW is going to release a new 'updated' Guardians box, they'll be super cheap, shuriken catapults will be worthless, but they'll get superamazing lasblasters. All the Eldar players that have Guardians with catapults? Worthless. Buy more Guardian boxed sets so you can use lasblasters.

Unlikely, since the old OLD guardians already came with lasguns/blasters..

GW wouldn't want us to use them again!

Yeah, but who actually has those anymore?

Then again, they brought back Stranglewebs and Splinter Guns for the Tyranids.

Of course they brought them back so fething useless no-one would ever take them, so why worry..

Funnily enough, I currently use old dark Eldar warriors as my couple of Guardian squads in my pirate-themed force, using their splinter rifles to represent "Guardians with Lasguns" even though they use Catapult stats, as an ode to 2nd edition (most of the other models in my army are 2nd edition sculpts).

 gorgon wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Wait, what? It would make more sense to delete Guardians completely from the new codex, when GW could simply up the range of their Catapults back to 24" like 2nd edition and then keep them as part of the army list? That's insanity.

In other things:

Other than Guardian squads having integrated heavy weapon platforms, the 2nd edition Eldar codex was by far the best Eldar Codex, for options, balanced points costs, fluff etc.

The 2nd edition Codex: Eldar was the most broken codex ever released by GW for any edition of the game, and guardians with shuricats in that book were probably the single best basic troop type ever. It certainly was the book that really established Eldar, but balance is not a word that should ever be used in connection with that book.

Erm... no. While I don't think the 2nd ed Codex: Eldar was balanced by any stretch of the imagination (see Warp Spiders), the most broken codex in GW history is easily the 2nd Edition Space Wolf codex.

For some reason Termies with CML and Ass-cannons at the same time keep surfacing in my memory...

I played Eldar in 2nd, Dark Reapers, D cannons, Wraithguard and Warpspiders with Eldrad. It was a very potent army indeed.

But then I remember fighting RandyMcStab's Ultramarines with Marneus Calgar on Combat Drugs and a muthaluvin Terminator Librarian with a displacer field, aegis and some other stuff that just would not die... at all.


And yes, space wolves were even more daft, famously one major tournament was won by an all cyclone terminator army that pie plated it's opposition off the table in turn 1.

I've did that to an Ork army once.

Turn 1 - Cyclone fires. Half of the Ork army vanishes.
Turn 2 - What turn two?

I just hope... HOPE that the new 'dex would allow for an all Harliquin Army.

Bring back the Solitaire.

Rogue Trader was even worse... Battle Cannon mounted on an Ork bike. Or firing ALL missiles from a CML at once... you ended up with a car tyre sized template.

Some of the Chaos lords I went up against with Eldar were not friendly either - although knocking displacer field wearing models off the board was hilarious.

For a new codex, I would like to see my Shining Spears either get better for their cost (or) cheaper, and for my Guardians to get a longer range on their catapults. That's it, really.

Hell, an improvement on all Catapult ranges would be a pretty big benefit that would affect foot Guardians, Guardian Jetbikes, Shining Spears, Vypers, and all Eldar tanks, so I would just take that and be a damn happy player!

Just upping normal Catapults to 18" and Avenger catapults to 24" would be a simple and very effective change. Though I woldn;t mind a higher range on my Shuriken Cannons, though. Even 36" would be damn cool.