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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 08:31:11
Subject: [Poll] Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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I got into an argument on whether the Imperial Guard could win against Clone Troopers. This would involve only Guard infantry, their vehicles and aircraft. The same goes for the Clone Troopers, which may or may not be led by Jedi. No spacecraft or starships, or other specialist forces (Astartes, Sisters, Titans, etc.) but the Guard can deploy their own specialists (Sanctioned Psykers and such).
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/09/15 00:40:22
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 11:11:31
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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Guard flak armour works.
Clone armour does not.
Guard wins.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 11:21:27
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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True...in fluff flak armor is las-resistant at the least, whereas Star Wars armor is completely useless. But this is a discussion, we should have more elaborate/comprehensive answers.
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 12:45:13
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws
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Guard have ogryns and also ratlings (similar to ewoks). Clones have super heavy Titan size walkers. Guard have fought armies much scarier and tougher than clones (see tyranids and demons)
Advantage -> guard.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 12:51:55
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Sacrifice to the Dark Gods
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I also think it bears mentioning that the clone trooper flier seems to be armed with rocket pods and the equivalent of a multi-laser on each wing. The vendetta gunship with its T/L lascanons and heavy bolters would give a slight advantage in air superiority to the guard.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 12:53:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 13:43:15
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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What does the battlefield look like? I tend to think the guard is vastly better at using cover to their advantage, so it makes a difference if there is a lot of natural cover or not.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 14:04:51
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller
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Yeah but clone flyer's armour is a useful as the clone armour the troopers wear; a Valkirye might be able to rub off a few rocket shots and keep on flying.
also, Guard are real humans so they can think out fo the box sometimes (despite training ,forcing' them to obey without question) ; clones are 'blocked' from thinking too much 'naturally' from 'birth'.
And cover: I rarely recall a clone using cover and more running toward the combat droids, standing 10 feet from the droids and firing wildy at them as the droid do the same.
and Lucas calls it 'a battle'
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 14:06:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 14:06:21
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Guard = limitless horde
Clones = less than above, I'd have to give it *eventually* to the guard by just sheer attrition if you have like everything at the same time.
Also, with the new psy powers and no psy defences by the clones, they will definately get trolled quite a few times by the primaris or even psyker squads. No force defense in your example
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 14:22:13
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws
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Guard would eventually win since they have more numbers. Clone Troops are also more fragile.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 14:30:25
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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Purifier wrote:What does the battlefield look like? I tend to think the guard is vastly better at using cover to their advantage, so it makes a difference if there is a lot of natural cover or not.
Multiple terrain...desert, jungle, mountain, polar, river valley, coastal plain, grassland, hilly forest, etc.
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 14:30:58
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Manhunter
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The clones are poorly trained (They where marching in formation while in combat) with poor armor (can't stop a direct blaster hit) and have weapons slightly inferior to the Lasgun. They lack heavy armor that the IG have, the battle clearly favors the Imperial Guard. Hands down the clones lose, hard.
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Proud to be Obliviously Blue since 2011!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 14:33:23
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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Technically, some of the Guard do to...I think it was Mordian Iron Guard or Vostroyan First Born.
They lack heavy armor that the IG have...
They have Titan-like walkers...
Not that I am siding with the clones, just pointing it out.
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 14:46:07
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Dakka Veteran
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Only going by what I recall from the movies, but star war vehicles all seem to fall under the light vehicle category in 40K standards. Being as big as a titian doesn’t mean they are as formable as a titian. Based on the performance of the imperial walkers in the Empire Strikes Back, I would say that they could be shot to pieces with concentrated heavy bolter fire and taken down with a ground assault from IG with grenades.
I think the imperial guard outshines the star war storm troopers in almost every method of comparison (weapons, armory, tactics, vehicles, training, etc). A lasgun is a much better weapon than an imperial blaster (IMHO).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 14:48:54
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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Grunt13 wrote: Being as big as a titian doesn’t mean they are as formable as a titian. Based on the performance of the imperial walkers in the Empire Strikes Back, I would say that they could be shot to pieces with concentrated heavy bolter fire and taken down with a ground assault from IG with grenades. How about the ones from Attack of the Clones? They seemed nasty. They may be led by Jedi...that might count.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/09/13 14:51:32
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 15:22:29
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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The Jedi aren't clone troopers though...
If we're just doing Imperial Guard versus Clone Army the Guard win every time.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 16:45:21
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Agreed.
Clone warriors are some troopers that are attempting to quash a few localised rebellions (and rather struggling at that).
The Imperial Guard is a massive, galaxy spanning army that is capable of fighting a million wars simultaneously against everything in the galaxy (and several things that aren't), and only slowly lose ground.
If the clone army attacked the Imperium, the guard would go "Oh, another tiny warband amongst hundreds of thousands. Add it to the list and we'll see if we can get around to it sometime this century."
More or less, the clones would ricochet off the guard without all that many people noticing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 16:54:18
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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Ailaros wrote:Agreed.
More or less, the clones would ricochet off the guard without all that many people noticing.
'cept the ARC Troopers. They have enough Plot Power to defeat an IG regiment, so if anything, a whole army of ARC-s should have the chance against the IG  .
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My armies:
14000 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 16:57:12
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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sure, they would arrive and butcher the local planetary PDF to a man without taking casualties, but then Yarrick the Plot-Invincible One and 1 billion armageddon legionnaires would show up.
Or just Marbo. Established fluff has him single-handedly destroying entire armies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 17:29:35
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Clone Trooper:
WS2, BS2, S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 LD10 Sv6+
Blaster:
S2, AP-, Assault 3, 12"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 17:35:24
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Dakka Veteran
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Tadashi wrote: Grunt13 wrote: Being as big as a titian doesn’t mean they are as formable as a titian. Based on the performance of the imperial walkers in the Empire Strikes Back, I would say that they could be shot to pieces with concentrated heavy bolter fire and taken down with a ground assault from IG with grenades.
How about the ones from Attack of the Clones? They seemed nasty.
My impression is that most of the vehicles in star wars are durable enough to stand up against blaster fire, but anything remotely approaching anti-armor inflicts heavy damage.
I don’t really see the addition of jedi knights helping the clone army that much. Weren’t all the jedis slaughtered by this same clone army? It’s debatably that lightsabers would even stop a lasgun shot. And even if they could, what stops a single IG from switching to full auto and saturating the jedis? In the movies, a handful of jedis are fighting squads of storm troops or droids deflecting about 3 to 4 shots a second in a display of movie awesomeness. A lasgun on full auto in the hands of a single imperial guardsman would be sending 20 to 30 shots a second at the unarmored guy running around with the glowing sword.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 17:52:18
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Dakka Veteran
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Not a little biased are we?
compare a Master Jedi to a squad of death cult assassins in how formidable they are. What happens when they get in on the Guard, an since when does a Las Gun have a full auto setting last time I checked they get one measly shot and then two if they are within the Jedi's charge range. Someone mentioned that the Jedi carried around a glowing sword, I'm sorry a Lightsaber would cut a power sword in half. An since we are talking about the empire why couldn't a bunch of Sith apprentices be leading them, force lightning FTW.
Guard would win hands down due to sheer numbers but I don't think you are giving the Empire's troops enough credit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 18:12:21
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Read the OP. It's not "who would win, guardsmen or jedi?" it's "who would win, guardsmen or clone troopers?".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 18:20:26
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Dakka Veteran
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Ailaros wrote:Read the OP. It's not "who would win, guardsmen or jedi?" it's "who would win, guardsmen or clone troopers?".
Yes an the conversation has evolved to include Jedi, so I commented on whether Jedi involvement would alter the course of things. People have also mentioned using Ratlings an Orgryns.
In an all encompasing war The Imperial Guard would smother the Empire, but in a small skirmishes I believe it would be closer Jedi or no Jedi.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 18:23:33
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Powersword is pretty much the same as a lightsaber, except it has a sword inside it.
In terms of AP, a lightsaber takes a good couple minutes to melt through a blast door (ap3). A power/chainfist rips through bulkheads like butter (ap2).
Why is a jedi master a SQUAD of assassins? That doesnt translate very well... The most choppy guys in the game throw out 5 or 6 attacks max, not... 30 on the charge. Surely Dante or that DE Klaivex guy are comparable to a Jedi master.
Las guns, in the books and rpgs at least, have a power/rate of fire setting. Faster rate of fire, for less powered shots (and less noise and visibility), or higher power for slower supercharged shots (snipers, hot-shot). Also being laser weapons, the jedi would have no way of reacting fast enough to block them (providing lightsabers could deflect lasers).
Blasters are just... garbage weapons.
If the clone troops get jedi, the guardsmen get allied space wolves.
Argument over.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/09/13 18:24:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 18:31:19
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Dakka Veteran
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valace2 wrote:Not a little biased are we? compare a Master Jedi to a squad of death cult assassins in how formidable they are. What happens when they get in on the Guard, an since when does a Las Gun have a full auto setting last time I checked they get one measly shot and then two if they are within the Jedi's charge range. Someone mentioned that the Jedi carried around a glowing sword, I'm sorry a Lightsaber would cut a power sword in half. An since we are talking about the empire why couldn't a bunch of Sith apprentices be leading them, force lightning FTW. Guard would win hands down due to sheer numbers but I don't think you are giving the Empire's troops enough credit. In 40k, weapons fire in bursts. The shuriken catapult is Assault 2, that doesn’t mean they only fire two actual disks a round, dozens if not hundreds of disks are actually fired. Full auto is depicted in the novels and other fluff as a setting that the lasguns have in order to fire a spread of shots at a rate of rounds per second that exceeds the the fastest machine guns in the modern world. Relying on a lightsaber to block a lasgun on full auto would be like standing in a tropical storm and trying to stay dry by deflecting the rain drops. Death cults are augmented humans - they are operating at a super human level of reflexes and skill gifted to them by their alterations. I don;t recall ever seeing a jedi moving five times faster than is humanly possible via the force. And even giving them a death cultist level of abilities, they are not likely to inflict a noteworthy level of damage on the IG. How the lightsaber would react to a power sword is open to conjecture in the extreme, but in the star wars universe there exist an assortment physical material that will stop and deflect a lightsaber. Material swords and armor exist that will contest the lightsaber, meaning that a guy with a normal sword made out to this material could get into a sword fight with a jedi and not damage his weapon. And the lightsabers are not the "I get to cut everything in half" weapon they are perceived to be, durable material offer resistance to a them. Ailaros wrote:Read the OP. It's not "who would win, guardsmen or jedi?" it's "who would win, guardsmen or clone troopers?". OP has that the clone troops may be led by jedis.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/09/13 18:59:52
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 18:37:21
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I don;t recall ever seeing a jedi moving five times faster than is humanly possible via the force.
Sure they do! But only when the writers can't figure out a better way to have them escape a situation. AND THEN NEVER AGAIN.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 20:18:45
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Longtime Dakkanaut
St. Louis, Missouri
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Just throwing this out there, the First Gen Clone Troopers were highly trained in Mandalorian battle tactics, even to the point of singing Mandalorian battle chants. The second and third generations were the ones that were "less trained" since they were created faster and put less emphesis on their Mandalorian training. Also, don't forget the Clone Commanders like Cody, Bacara, and Bly who received even more training from both Jango Fett and their Jedi Commanders. I'm pretty sure people are underestimating how much damage AT-TEs along with the TX-130 tank and LAAT air support could actually do. However, I do agree that the IG would eventually win, but I believe only due their numbers and their willingness to glass planets.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 20:20:54
Subject: Re:Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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mega_bassist wrote:Just throwing this out there, the First Gen Clone Troopers were highly trained in Mandalorian battle tactics, even to the point of singing Mandalorian battle chants. The second and third generations were the ones that were "less trained" since they were created faster and put less emphesis on their Mandalorian training. Also, don't forget the Clone Commanders like Cody, Bacara, and Bly who received even more training from both Jango Fett and their Jedi Commanders. I'm pretty sure people are underestimating how much damage AT-TEs along with the TX-130 tank and LAAT air support could actually do. However, I do agree that the IG would eventually win, but I believe only due their numbers and their willingness to glass planets.
Guard flak armour works.
Clone armour does not.
Guard wins.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 20:23:32
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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What people do not realize is the above is not true. The movies only show the blaster hits that kill people, they do not show the millions of blaster hits that are absorbed by the armor. a 40K movie would show the same thing. most of the Lasgun hits that were stopped by armor would not be shown onscreen. It captures the action better to just show the ones that get through.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/13 20:24:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/13 20:33:30
Subject: Imperial Guard vs Clone Troopers
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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DeathReaper wrote:
What people do not realize is the above is not true.
The movies only show the blaster hits that kill people, they do not show the millions of blaster hits that are absorbed by the armor.
a 40K movie would show the same thing. most of the Lasgun hits that were stopped by armor would not be shown onscreen.
It captures the action better to just show the ones that get through.
I've never seen the armour stop a blaster bolt and considering lasguns are stronger than blaster bolts (I've never seen a blaster bolt take limbs off) then we can safely assume it's not gonna make much of a difference apart from making them look a bit cooler.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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