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 l0k1 wrote:

Oh I know they do, I've seen the SW/IG lists. These are played by WAAC players. Which IG and SW codices were not designed for 6th edition rules.

Honestly all I'm hearing is more of the same old crying. "Our dex isn't obviously the #1 dex." Seriously? "Daemon Princes such now!!!" Boo hoo! Now all of you named characters are at least playable!! Hell you don't even HAVE to take them to take specific units as troops! Wish I could take a cheap build a bear HQ to get Purifiers instead taking Crowe. Chaos players really need to get over themselves and their 2 yr old mentality.

Odd how armies not 'designed' for 6th Ed seem to fare so much better in it than those lovingly crafted for the edition.

And GK librarians, Inquisitors and plenty of HQs are quite customizable, mind. I know it's a deep tragedy that the basic GK marine comes with pretty much all the goodies so cheap, but there's always hope someday a new book will come out taking away their ATSKNF, tripling the cost of Dreadknights and making their force weapons collectively AP4. Then GK players can finally hang out with the cool kids!

So, care to tell us whiners why a 200+ Daemon Prince of Khorne should not have Rage/Counterattack like every other Khorne-marked model?

 Sephyr wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:

Oh I know they do, I've seen the SW/IG lists. These are played by WAAC players. Which IG and SW codices were not designed for 6th edition rules.

Honestly all I'm hearing is more of the same old crying. "Our dex isn't obviously the #1 dex." Seriously? "Daemon Princes such now!!!" Boo hoo! Now all of you named characters are at least playable!! Hell you don't even HAVE to take them to take specific units as troops! Wish I could take a cheap build a bear HQ to get Purifiers instead taking Crowe. Chaos players really need to get over themselves and their 2 yr old mentality.

Odd how armies not 'designed' for 6th Ed seem to fare so much better in it than those lovingly crafted for the edition.

And GK librarians, Inquisitors and plenty of HQs are quite customizable, mind. I know it's a deep tragedy that the basic GK marine comes with pretty much all the goodies so cheap, but there's always hope someday a new book will come out taking away their ATSKNF, tripling the cost of Dreadknights and making their force weapons collectively AP4. Then GK players can finally hang out with the cool kids!

So, care to tell us whiners why a 200+ Daemon Prince of Khorne should not have Rage/Counterattack like every other Khorne-marked model?

Because the good guys must win.

They sell better

Because the Khorne Demon Weapon (Axe of Blind Fury) confers the Rage special rule?

 Sephyr wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:

Oh I know they do, I've seen the SW/IG lists. These are played by WAAC players. Which IG and SW codices were not designed for 6th edition rules.

Honestly all I'm hearing is more of the same old crying. "Our dex isn't obviously the #1 dex." Seriously? "Daemon Princes such now!!!" Boo hoo! Now all of you named characters are at least playable!! Hell you don't even HAVE to take them to take specific units as troops! Wish I could take a cheap build a bear HQ to get Purifiers instead taking Crowe. Chaos players really need to get over themselves and their 2 yr old mentality.

Odd how armies not 'designed' for 6th Ed seem to fare so much better in it than those lovingly crafted for the edition.

And GK librarians, Inquisitors and plenty of HQs are quite customizable, mind. I know it's a deep tragedy that the basic GK marine comes with pretty much all the goodies so cheap, but there's always hope someday a new book will come out taking away their ATSKNF, tripling the cost of Dreadknights and making their force weapons collectively AP4. Then GK players can finally hang out with the cool kids!


So, care to tell us whiners why a 200+ Daemon Prince of Khorne should not have Rage/Counterattack like every other Khorne-marked model?

Did you completely miss my analogy? Since when can a Librarian make Purifers a troop choice? The new lords/sorcerers are far more customizable and flexible, which chaos players always complained about, and also remove the need to take an encumbering named character

5th edition codecies fair better than ones crafted for 6th? Really? As I understand it, Necrons were designed with 6th in mind and are doing amazingly well. As for the new Chaos codex, are you saying that you have played a large number of games using the new rules, thus making you an authority on how good/bad the codex and all of its possible builds? Obviously you haven't played a single game with these rules so don't knock 'em before you try them.

If such a day comes for the GK codex I will play it, I still play the current one despite having 30 Paladins all set up for wound allocation tricks. Lol By cool kids do you mean people who complain about everything? So GW messed with the Daemon Prince? At least now you have options for HQs, before many complained that a Prince was the ONLY option. Does it make sense that your Prince doesn't get those abilities? Perhaps it was for balance. The question is why does it matter to you so much? If the Prince is so horribly over costed to the point of not being useful why whine about abilities he can't have?

To be fair, the new lords and sorcerers only make Cult Marine choices into Troop choices because they all were moved to the Elite section in this edition... so in reality we now HAVE to take a lord or sorcerer with the appropriate mark to make units into troops, that were previously troops under the old codex.

So in a way, Lords/Sorcerers with appropriate marks are now the new "required" HQ, at least if you want to use your Cult Marines as troops (as they were in the previous codex.)

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
To be fair, the new lords and sorcerers only make Cult Marine choices into Troop choices because they all were moved to the Elite section in this edition... so in reality we now HAVE to take a lord or sorcerer with the appropriate mark to make units into troops, that were previously troops under the old codex.

So in a way, Lords/Sorcerers with appropriate marks are now the new "required" HQ, at least if you want to use your Cult Marines as troops (as they were in the previous codex.)

That was last codex, things change, deal.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
To be fair, the new lords and sorcerers only make Cult Marine choices into Troop choices because they all were moved to the Elite section in this edition... so in reality we now HAVE to take a lord or sorcerer with the appropriate mark to make units into troops, that were previously troops under the old codex.

So in a way, Lords/Sorcerers with appropriate marks are now the new "required" HQ, at least if you want to use your Cult Marines as troops (as they were in the previous codex.)

That was last codex, things change, deal.

I was referring to l0k1's idea that Lords/Sorcerers are more flexible, and the new codex makes no HQ a clear choice.

I was merely pointing out that not much has changed from the last codex in that regard... if you play Cult Marines of any type. You still have a necessary HQ you are required to take. The only thing that changed was that the required HQ went from a DP to a Lord/Sorcerer

You are correct fox, but what I was trying to point out is that a Lord/Sorcerer that is very customizable and can be much more appealing than taking Kharn if you don't like named characters. It also maybe cheaper and gives you the possibility of taking a more useful warlord trait if you desire.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 illuknisaa wrote:

scimitar wrote:

 illuknisaa wrote:
Noise marines seem completely pointless now. A basic bolter marine is 13 points while a basic noise marine is 17. Both have same stats and gear. Noise marines only have i5 and fearless. Bolter marines are troops can buy i5 for 1 point. Noise marines can buy 2/3 salvo bolter for 3pts

There just seems to little reason to get noise marines. A blob of basic bolter marines can hold mid field with their overwatch bolters and still be cheapish.

Noise marines have equivalent cost to regular CSM with MoS and an icon of vengeance for the same stats. However, the reason to take them is that both their sonic blaster and doom siren both ignore cover. That makes them an excellent hard counter to the ridiculous cover saves from invisibility, shrouded and aegis shenanigans that are popular in 6th.

Ha! I wounded 3 of your mahreens and now you can't use your 2+ cover and have to resort to your miserably bad 3+ armor save. Suck on that!

Fear my stereos of DOOOOM!! The ap3 goodiness will melt your mahreens in no time. What? A terminator armoured libby sitting infront of your squad?

If you're not skilled enough to get that AP3 template over something that isn't AP2 that sounds like your issue, not the games.

doesnt matter what you hit. wounds go on the closest model unless it is a barrage weapon


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
Because the Khorne Demon Weapon (Axe of Blind Fury) confers the Rage special rule?

yet dont you require MoK to take Axe of Blind Furry?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 l0k1 wrote:
I think people need to realize this codex is meant to take advantage of all aspects of 6th edition, which includes allies. Many have already considered daemon allies for the abuse of the tally master, but what about IG for long range fire? A mix of IG and Khorne could be very strong. Perhaps Necrons for anti vehicle?

IG not being battle brothers really limits IG Chaos options competitively and fluffwise. Something no IoM army need worry about(except GK if memory serves)

For those saying that DP lost eternal warrior.. They have the daemon special rule, so doesn't that give them eternal warrior and a 5++? Same with oblits and mutis.

 l0k1 wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
I think people need to realize this codex is meant to take advantage of all aspects of 6th edition, which includes allies. Many have already considered daemon allies for the abuse of the tally master, but what about IG for long range fire? A mix of IG and Khorne could be very strong. Perhaps Necrons for anti vehicle?

Yeah, it's a good thing that other stronger codices can't take allies.

Oh I know they do, I've seen the SW/IG lists. These are played by WAAC players. Which IG and SW codices were not designed for 6th edition rules.

Honestly all I'm hearing is more of the same old crying. "Our dex isn't obviously the #1 dex." Seriously? "Daemon Princes such now!!!" Boo hoo! Now all of you named characters are at least playable!! Hell you don't even HAVE to take them to take specific units as troops! Wish I could take a cheap build a bear HQ to get Purifiers instead taking Crowe. Chaos players really need to get over themselves and their 2 yr old mentality.

I agree with the mockery of whining, but purifiers are better than the new Noise, Plague, or Rubric marines. Purifiers can fit almost any situation, meaning having 6 of them in troops is nice.

My jury is still out on the new zerkers, I need to see how they play but I imagine purifiers are still better.




In their day(wound allocation), paladins were better than the new Noise, Plague, or Rubric marines as well but I understand they are not what they use to be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Garukadon wrote:
For those saying that DP lost eternal warrior.. They have the daemon special rule, so doesn't that give them eternal warrior and a 5++? Same with oblits and mutis.

again and again

The Daemon special rule gives Fear and the 5++.

Fear is made largely useless by ATSSNF.

IMHO Daemon should give fearless AND EW as well, but it doesnt.

Garukadon wrote:
For those saying that DP lost eternal warrior.. They have the daemon special rule, so doesn't that give them eternal warrior and a 5++? Same with oblits and mutis.

No. It doesn't.

Just a thought to throw out to the think tank, but its worth mentioning. Since this codex is very heavy on the idea of challenges, perhaps this is its greatest strength. With being able to grant boons at the start of the game, thus making you champions possibly better in challenges, you stand a better chance of winning, and if memory serves, you can even sweeping advance from a challenge.

 l0k1 wrote:
You are correct fox, but what I was trying to point out is that a Lord/Sorcerer that is very customizable and can be much more appealing than taking Kharn if you don't like named characters. It also maybe cheaper and gives you the possibility of taking a more useful warlord trait if you desire.

not having combat upgrades or 3 wounds on the sorc really limits them for me.

The lord on the other hand I agree with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 l0k1 wrote:
Just a thought to throw out to the think tank, but its worth mentioning. Since this codex is very heavy on the idea of challenges, perhaps this is its greatest strength. With being able to grant boons at the start of the game, thus making you champions possibly better in challenges, you stand a better chance of winning, and if memory serves, you can even sweeping advance from a challenge.

randomness !good. Having to always accept challenges is a huge weakness, especilly for chaos HQs that rarely stand up to IoM counterparts. For upgrade characters, I think the boons are nice, but even nasty tooled chaos upgrade characters are only going to be 60-70% to take on a IoM upgrade character. And with 1-2 rolls on the boon table, they still will never challenge an HQ.

 Exergy wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
I think people need to realize this codex is meant to take advantage of all aspects of 6th edition, which includes allies. Many have already considered daemon allies for the abuse of the tally master, but what about IG for long range fire? A mix of IG and Khorne could be very strong. Perhaps Necrons for anti vehicle?

Yeah, it's a good thing that other stronger codices can't take allies.

Oh I know they do, I've seen the SW/IG lists. These are played by WAAC players. Which IG and SW codices were not designed for 6th edition rules.

Honestly all I'm hearing is more of the same old crying. "Our dex isn't obviously the #1 dex." Seriously? "Daemon Princes such now!!!" Boo hoo! Now all of you named characters are at least playable!! Hell you don't even HAVE to take them to take specific units as troops! Wish I could take a cheap build a bear HQ to get Purifiers instead taking Crowe. Chaos players really need to get over themselves and their 2 yr old mentality.

I agree with the mockery of whining, but purifiers are better than the new Noise, Plague, or Rubric marines. Purifiers can fit almost any situation, meaning having 6 of them in troops is nice.

My jury is still out on the new zerkers, I need to see how they play but I imagine purifiers are still better.




In their day(wound allocation), paladins were better than the new Noise, Plague, or Rubric marines as well but I understand they are not what they use to be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Garukadon wrote:
For those saying that DP lost eternal warrior.. They have the daemon special rule, so doesn't that give them eternal warrior and a 5++? Same with oblits and mutis.

again and again

The Daemon special rule gives Fear and the 5++.

Fear is made largely useless by ATSSNF.

IMHO Daemon should give fearless AND EW as well, but it doesnt.

Purifiers are very good, and they can be made to fit any situation, but their problem is in the points cost and the fact that they die like normal marines. 6 troops of Purifers in a standard list are only 5 man units. 2 with Psycannons(no NFW), 2 Halberd, and 1 Hammer. For those 6 units in Rhinos, and Crowe that adds up to 1284pts if I recall. 5 man units die fast, rhinos are fragile, and your warlord is paper thin, and an easy victory point.

Noise, Plague, and Rubric Marines have specific roles and obviously if they aren't in that role they struggle. I agree with you on zerkers. I think its better to just use standard marines with mok and an icon, but we'll see.

Chosen seem to be the swiss army knife unit of this codex. They can be easily fit with a vast array of special weapons to handle any situation and can take lots of them. With Abbaddon making them troops I'm surprised more people aren't excited about them.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
I think people need to realize this codex is meant to take advantage of all aspects of 6th edition, which includes allies. Many have already considered daemon allies for the abuse of the tally master, but what about IG for long range fire? A mix of IG and Khorne could be very strong. Perhaps Necrons for anti vehicle?

Yeah, it's a good thing that other stronger codices can't take allies.

yeah, it is a good thing they made it so nids cant take allies to tone down a way OP codex...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 l0k1 wrote:

 Exergy wrote:


I agree with the mockery of whining, but purifiers are better than the new Noise, Plague, or Rubric marines. Purifiers can fit almost any situation, meaning having 6 of them in troops is nice.

My jury is still out on the new zerkers, I need to see how they play but I imagine purifiers are still better.

In their day(wound allocation), paladins were better than the new Noise, Plague, or Rubric marines as well but I understand they are not what they use to be.

Purifiers are very good, and they can be made to fit any situation, but their problem is in the points cost and the fact that they die like normal marines. 6 troops of Purifers in a standard list are only 5 man units. 2 with Psycannons(no NFW), 2 Halberd, and 1 Hammer. For those 6 units in Rhinos, and Crowe that adds up to 1284pts if I recall. 5 man units die fast, rhinos are fragile, and your warlord is paper thin, and an easy victory point.

Noise, Plague, and Rubric Marines have specific roles and obviously if they aren't in that role they struggle. I agree with you on zerkers. I think its better to just use standard marines with mok and an icon, but we'll see.

Chosen seem to be the swiss army knife unit of this codex. They can be easily fit with a vast array of special weapons to handle any situation and can take lots of them. With Abbaddon making them troops I'm surprised more people aren't excited about them.

Noise Marines and Zerkers also die just as easily as normal marines, rubrics die just as easily to non AP3 or better attacks.
The fact that the cult troops are all so specialized means that taking them as troops is less of a bonus.

Chosen being troops is awesome, but then abby is a very expensive special character, not a generic cheap HQ.

thus;
chosen / abby ~= to purifiers /crowe ~= palidans / Draigo

abby>crowe but chosen < purifiers



cult troops / lordsorc ~= to wracks / haemoculus. They really shouldnt be in elites so they have an easy way to become troops.

 Exergy wrote:

doesnt matter what you hit. wounds go on the closest model unless it is a barrage weapon.

So why did you let your opponent maneuver into a position where that is the closest model and why haven't you moved your models so that when you fire his clever movement is foiled? The argument boils down to, tactics are hard, this flamer should be AP2 so I don't need to think to make it work.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
Because the Khorne Demon Weapon (Axe of Blind Fury) confers the Rage special rule?

As has been pointed out here, Daemon Princes cannot get any wargear that requires marks because they cannot get marks. They are "daemons of Khorne" or "Daemons of Nurgle", and get no bonus from marks but entirely different abilities, at least if you go by RAW.

Here's hoping a FAQ/Errata will clear things soon and maybe bring some fixes.

In case no one has mentioned, Obliterators still have a power fist each.

i love the new codex! for one more point more then last codex we can get t5 oblitz no more instant splatters by melta and such 9 oblit nurgle marked list march forth!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
plus we do still get fists like jackster said = victory that plus assault cannons now!

 Overlord Zerrtin wrote:
i love the new codex! for one more point more then last codex we can get t5 oblitz no more instant splatters by melta and such 9 oblit nurgle marked list march forth!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
plus we do still get fists like jackster said = victory that plus assault cannons now!

No they just run away like little girls if they take a wound in close combat. 225 points gone in one sweeping advance. Yay.

vets of the long war? + a couple points now they ld 9 and and can kill some marines for fun

the reason why the defiler is so expensive: GW has those 2 other daemon engines that do the same thing as a "specialized" defiler that they need to sell

 Overlord Zerrtin wrote:
vets of the long war? + a couple points now they ld 9 and and can kill some marines for fun

Do obliterators have that option. It certainly would help but they really should be fearless.

It has 4 hull points (the rest has 3) daemon and it will not die, but AV12 still lets it down.
Kinda wish they brought the +1 armor upgrade back.
It does have the big template the other 2 dont get.

Chaos Marines costing as much as a scout makes them good for spaming.

Chosens are incredible as troops with 5 specials weapon slots (or 4 plus 1 heavy weapon) in addition to the Champion's choice of weapons plus marks and stuff. They can also hide their power weapons.
Abaddy can easily beat most special character around his point range.

Obliterators do have the option of Veteran of Long war. But really, just keep them from CC.

Kevlar wrote:

 Overlord Zerrtin wrote:
vets of the long war? + a couple points now they ld 9 and and can kill some marines for fun

Do obliterators have that option. It certainly would help but they really should be fearless.

yep have the codex with me they can take vets of the long war whats the rule for deamon do does that give them fearless cuz they have that too

Abbadon the only one with eternal warrior. Not even daemon princes get eternal warrior.

oblits will need vet of the long war so they dont fail morale.

 Tomb King wrote:
Abbadon the only one with eternal warrior. Not even daemon princes get eternal warrior.

well.... they didnt have it before 4th.

I have to say I am very disappointed from reading this. Not with the codex but with most of the people posting here.

Boo Whoo your 5th ed army can't be used the same way. Well it's a new edition and if you've played since 3rd the only new thing you need to buy are larger bases for your termies, maybe a oval base for your bikers, and a heldrake?

Bikes are gods because they are CHEAP. Chaos lords are insane. Daemon Price... costs a little much but if you actually use some tactics it should be fine. Either CC with the black mace... run in, challenge and kill any character (disregarding crons, or just don't end up in b2b with the lord), and then at the end of the phase, about 1/3 of the remaining models just die randomly. Other option is the burning brand to effectively get another -2 strength bale flamer, attached to a tank hunter.

Sonic marines got better, no they can't charge but they get more shots without cover saves... so their role changed but they are more survivable and get more shots.

1k sons, pretty much the same but 12 points cheaper for the base unit. Why are you complaining unless you were hoping that they were even better. If you played this in 5th, this still works.

Plauge Marines... reroll hits and wounds in CC when fighting SM armies... Ok, even more a of a reason not to charge them.

Zerkers, i'll give you that one but take a closer look at chosen for MEQ.

Soul Blaze?? effective at all?? idk...

Dirge Caster,,, so your saying now i unload. then move 6, ram with my destryer blades rhino and then charge... you can't overwatch now and you get d6 s5 hits...

Forget flakk, Heldrake better and cheaper.

Sigil of WHATTT finally a 2+3++ for soc or lord. (Slaanesh can also get FNP) 2+4++5++?? hmm

Palanquin of Nurgle... 5 wound lord...T5 lord...

I can go on but i'll just leave it at this.

I had a 2k list for today. enemy brought Space Wolves but only had a 1k list. I just took out half my points and played. I lost 14 models (10 of which were cultists) He lost 1k points... by turn 4... This was using no new models. Lord ended the game with 4 wounds and only full unit i lost was the cultists.

BIGGIST ISSUE WITH THE CODEX BESIDES THE DAEMON PRICE NOT HAVING CHAMPION OF CHAOS IS THAT THERE ARE TOO MANY GOOD CHOICES, a few HORRIBLE ones but a ton of good ones to leaving no room for allies or fortifications outside of fluff/cheese reasons.

scimitar wrote:

Noise marines have equivalent cost to regular CSM with MoS and an icon of vengeance for the same stats.

Which makes Noise Marines better.