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Here is something I was thinking about, Abby has all 4 mark right? It also states that you cannot inter mix units of different marks. Unless I'm reading it wrong Abby can't join other units, aside from unmarked ones that is.

 Lucre wrote:
I'm sorta happy with guys that can hide in squads and hit like MCs do. Making me wish chaos could field more ICs. 3 hqs with high initiative ap2. But I guess with all the wound allocations tricks, 3++ and fnp in the world, even that isn't particularly exciting.

I dont see why SW can take 4 Hqs and chaos cant. Chaos should be all about personality of characters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 l0k1 wrote:
Here is something I was thinking about, Abby has all 4 mark right? It also states that you cannot inter mix units of different marks. Unless I'm reading it wrong Abby can't join other units, aside from unmarked ones that is.

abby does not have all 4 marks, he has one mark with the attributes of all of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orkaswampa wrote:
What's everyones opinion on Noise Marines? I see them as a pretty good objective holder currently with pretty good damage output

I think noise marines are going to be in a lot more lists. Slannesh is cheap yet powerful in this edition.

Abaddon does have all 4 Marks. It says so in Mark of Chaos Ascendant on pg 57.

 whembly wrote:

 Lucre wrote:
I don't quite understand why folks think DP's need an angry axe. Aren't they scary enough already?

I guess they can't take on tanks in one turn these days... I suppose that makes their cost feel a little silly. I guess they'd also be able to instakill meq that way too. I wonder what 35 points is worth.

I've been looking at a DP with that Black Mace... that weapon is drool worthy now... (it'll be AP2)

And rending + extra movement on a slaanesh prince. Higher vehicle threat.

Kevlar wrote:


And rending + extra movement on a slaanesh prince. Higher vehicle threat.

That extra movement is only if he runs, which makes assaulting impossible, though. But yes, the Rending is nice and may sometimes even make it a good idea to attack normally instead of using Smash on vehicles.

 Exergy wrote:

 Jihallah wrote:

 AresX8 wrote:
Warpsmiths can't shatter Defence Line cover. Shatter Defences specifically says "(this may not be one that he has purchased as part of his army)..."

D'OH! I thought i was onto something there!

40k warfare is about what terrain you purchase. In the grim dark future of the 41'st millennium... There are defence lines and landing pads everywhere. agri field? MUST HAVE SKYSHIELD
Rocky barren asteroid? how convenient My skyshield pad is there!

Right next to my opponents, conveniently enough! what are the odds?
Purchasable terrain sucks.

at least the skyshield landing pad could possibly be a deep strikeable vehicle itself. the fortress of redemption and junk is just crazy.

No it ain't crazy.

Every mile of every world on every asteroid on every moon on every extremely large spaceship that we can have a battlefield sized area to fight over... there is a fortress facing a fortress, with an ADL protecting a landing pad. EVERYWHERE.
It's worse than "Eldrad will be there for you, on a million worlds, in a million battles, Eldrad is always with you" <_<

 DakkaHammer wrote:

 Jihallah wrote:

40k warfare is about what terrain you purchase. In the grim dark future of the 41'st millennium... There are defence lines and landing pads everywhere. agri field? MUST HAVE SKYSHIELD
Rocky barren asteroid? how convenient My skyshield pad is there!

Right next to my opponents, conveniently enough! what are the odds?
Purchasable terrain sucks.

Well, it could be that both pads are yours, and your opponent is attacking your landing field and managed to take one of them. Having two fortresses facing off against each other is really hard to justify though.

Every battle I play against the crusaders of blood with my 5th company of corpse-worshipping loyalists is the one AFTER he's taken my skyshield?
...do whot?

 Orkaswampa wrote:
What's everyones opinion on Noise Marines? I see them as a pretty good objective holder currently with pretty good damage output

Good vs hordes, good at gunline, but if your going sonic weapons it looks like they'd rather not move- gunline objective holders really.

 Lucre wrote:
I don't quite understand why folks think DP's need an angry axe. Aren't they scary enough already?

I guess they can't take on tanks in one turn these days... I suppose that makes their cost feel a little silly. I guess they'd also be able to instakill meq that way too. I wonder what 35 points is worth.

S8 daemonprince with +d6 attacks. Juicy.

 whembly wrote:

 Lucre wrote:
I don't quite understand why folks think DP's need an angry axe. Aren't they scary enough already?

I guess they can't take on tanks in one turn these days... I suppose that makes their cost feel a little silly. I guess they'd also be able to instakill meq that way too. I wonder what 35 points is worth.

I've been looking at a DP with that Black Mace... that weapon is drool worthy now... (it'll be AP2)

What makes it AP2? My powerstave on LoC or Tzeentch daemon princes in CD don't give the bonus strength without the AP4. What makes this different?

 l0k1 wrote:
Here is something I was thinking about, Abby has all 4 mark right? It also states that you cannot inter mix units of different marks. Unless I'm reading it wrong Abby can't join other units, aside from unmarked ones that is.

When i read my dex it does say "Mark of chaos ascendent- he must be warlord... He also has all four Marks of Chaos". Which to me points out 2 things
1) on his profile, they have missed mentioning Rage and Counter attack, since he would gain these from MoK
2)....he has all 4 marks and you cannot mix units of...different marks...SIGH

 l0k1 wrote:
Here is something I was thinking about, Abby has all 4 mark right? It also states that you cannot inter mix units of different marks. Unless I'm reading it wrong Abby can't join other units, aside from unmarked ones that is.

Which is precisely why he can join any unit, as there is no way for a unit to have a different mark to him. Does Abby have MoK? Yes. Do Berserkers have Mark of Khorne? Yes. Therefore Abby can join.

The rule is a character can't join a unit with a different mark, not a unit may not be joined by a character with a different mark.

Warpsmiths not being able to take special issue wargear or mounts is total crap.

 Omegus wrote:
Warpsmiths not being able to take special issue wargear or mounts is total crap.

I think they should have preferred enemy(vehicles)

I understand how powerful this would be, joining a unit of havocs or oblitorators but he is 115 points right, he needs to add value.

 Omegus wrote:
Warpsmiths not being able to take special issue wargear or mounts is total crap.

Why? It makes no sense for them to take things like Jump Packs or Daemonic Mounts.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
Here is something I was thinking about, Abby has all 4 mark right? It also states that you cannot inter mix units of different marks. Unless I'm reading it wrong Abby can't join other units, aside from unmarked ones that is.

Which is precisely why he can join any unit, as there is no way for a unit to have a different mark to him. Does Abby have MoK? Yes. Do Berserkers have Mark of Khorne? Yes. Therefore Abby can join.

The rule is a character can't join a unit with a different mark, not a unit may not be joined by a character with a different mark.

WIth the same reasoning abbadon is also mark of khorne, slaneesh, and tzeentch. Therefore he is marked by another god and cant join that unit. If it said a character only needs the that mark to join then he could but unfortunately it doesnt say that. As it stands abbadon cannot joined marked troops.

I have to say, even with the "weaken" of the DP I do like this codex and what it is trying to do.

Lords and Sorcerers have always been units I liked to use more and now with this new codex I can do so and be affective at the same time.

Name Characters as now good and that is great!

The only unit I'm going meh on is Cultists, they are just ok to me and I might not use them.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Omegus wrote:
Warpsmiths not being able to take special issue wargear or mounts is total crap.

Why? It makes no sense for them to take things like Jump Packs or Daemonic Mounts.

Melta bombs :(


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 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
Here is something I was thinking about, Abby has all 4 mark right? It also states that you cannot inter mix units of different marks. Unless I'm reading it wrong Abby can't join other units, aside from unmarked ones that is.

Which is precisely why he can join any unit, as there is no way for a unit to have a different mark to him. Does Abby have MoK? Yes. Do Berserkers have Mark of Khorne? Yes. Therefore Abby can join.

The rule is a character can't join a unit with a different mark, not a unit may not be joined by a character with a different mark.

This is the way i read it too, now that i look closely.

Godless-Mimicry, your good at seeing these little important things

 Jihallah wrote:
No it ain't crazy.

Every mile of every world on every asteroid on every moon on every extremely large spaceship that we can have a battlefield sized area to fight over... there is a fortress facing a fortress, with an ADL protecting a landing pad. EVERYWHERE.
It's worse than "Eldrad will be there for you, on a million worlds, in a million battles, Eldrad is always with you" <_<

How is this different that going to a tourney and seeing Calgar fighting his clone, or Vulcan fighting Vulcan. Or really any match up of named characters versus the others. Seems odd that the main heroes fight every battle.

What's the possibility of going chaos lord on a steed of slaneesh and carrying a dimension key and a Force Weapon. Hopefully starting him behind some cover and slamming him into the flank of your opponent , popping that key open and making the entire flank of your opponent dangerous terrain and probably causing wounds on any survivors. dropping in some termies and Oblits and going to town

Oblits have PFs.....

Barrywise wrote:
What's the possibility of going chaos lord on a steed of slaneesh and carrying a dimension key and a Force Weapon. Hopefully starting him behind some cover and slamming him into the flank of your opponent , popping that key open and making the entire flank of your opponent dangerous terrain and probably causing wounds on any survivors. dropping in some termies and Oblits and going to town

It's kind of chancy, you'd need a whole list built around it. Huron/Ahriman lets you infiltrate D3 units, so stick the 'Keymaster' as far forward with one of those guys. Could even be up to 12" if no line of sight can be drawn. Stick him on a Jugger of khorne, to be more survivable (the stuff the slaanesh steed gives wont help you), just in case the initiative gets seized or you go second. Then pray you get the alpha strike, it's a 50/50 chance then a 5/6 to not be seized. But if not... you can go to town. Starting 18" away, not slowed by terrain, you still only need to make a 2D6 roll of 6 inches re-rollable. And you WILL kill something, since you get to choose what you want to attack. Unless maybe you are facing nothing but paladins on the other side of the board...

Also, you could take an ADL with communication array, to ensure that not only once the Keymaster succeeds, all your reserves will come in, and by some chance you need to wait until turn 3, you could re-roll the ones that come in early.

 Meade wrote:

Barrywise wrote:
What's the possibility of going chaos lord on a steed of slaneesh and carrying a dimension key and a Force Weapon. Hopefully starting him behind some cover and slamming him into the flank of your opponent , popping that key open and making the entire flank of your opponent dangerous terrain and probably causing wounds on any survivors. dropping in some termies and Oblits and going to town

It's kind of chancy, you'd need a whole list built around it. Huron/Ahriman lets you infiltrate D3 units, so stick the 'Keymaster' as far forward with one of those guys. Could even be up to 12" if no line of sight can be drawn. Stick him on a Jugger of khorne, to be more survivable (the stuff the slaanesh steed gives wont help you), just in case the initiative gets seized or you go second. Then pray you get the alpha strike, it's a 50/50 chance then a 5/6 to not be seized. But if not... you can go to town. Starting 18" away, not slowed by terrain, you still only need to make a 2D6 roll of 6 inches re-rollable. And you WILL kill something, since you get to choose what you want to attack. Unless maybe you are facing nothing but paladins on the other side of the board...

Also, you could take an ADL with communication array, to ensure that not only once the Keymaster succeeds, all your reserves will come in, and by some chance you need to wait until turn 3, you could re-roll the ones that come in early.

except you cant infiltrate and charge on turn 1.

 Meade wrote:

Barrywise wrote:
What's the possibility of going chaos lord on a steed of slaneesh and carrying a dimension key and a Force Weapon. Hopefully starting him behind some cover and slamming him into the flank of your opponent , popping that key open and making the entire flank of your opponent dangerous terrain and probably causing wounds on any survivors. dropping in some termies and Oblits and going to town

It's kind of chancy, you'd need a whole list built around it. Huron/Ahriman lets you infiltrate D3 units, so stick the 'Keymaster' as far forward with one of those guys. Could even be up to 12" if no line of sight can be drawn. Stick him on a Jugger of khorne, to be more survivable (the stuff the slaanesh steed gives wont help you), just in case the initiative gets seized or you go second. Then pray you get the alpha strike, it's a 50/50 chance then a 5/6 to not be seized. But if not... you can go to town. Starting 18" away, not slowed by terrain, you still only need to make a 2D6 roll of 6 inches re-rollable. And you WILL kill something, since you get to choose what you want to attack. Unless maybe you are facing nothing but paladins on the other side of the board...

Also, you could take an ADL with communication array, to ensure that not only once the Keymaster succeeds, all your reserves will come in, and by some chance you need to wait until turn 3, you could re-roll the ones that come in early.

If I read this correctly, you're talking about infiltrating this keymaster, and assaulting on the first turn. Which you can't do under the rules in 6th. have to go second to assault from infiltrating.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
Here is something I was thinking about, Abby has all 4 mark right? It also states that you cannot inter mix units of different marks. Unless I'm reading it wrong Abby can't join other units, aside from unmarked ones that is.

Which is precisely why he can join any unit, as there is no way for a unit to have a different mark to him. Does Abby have MoK? Yes. Do Berserkers have Mark of Khorne? Yes. Therefore Abby can join.

The rule is a character can't join a unit with a different mark, not a unit may not be joined by a character with a different mark.

You're right. Thanks for directing my attention to that detail

Salacious Greed wrote:
If I read this correctly, you're talking about infiltrating this keymaster, and assaulting on the first turn. Which you can't do under the rules in 6th. have to go second to assault from infiltrating.

Ah yes, I see that now.

And the steed of Slaanesh can't assault from outflank either

And the infiltration rule only works on infantry

Then yeah, I think best way to do it is a communications array, and lots of deepstriking units. Put the Keymaster in a bike unit and turboboost them turn one, manouvering them so its hard to shoot at them...

The opponent would have a very hard time either running away from the bikes, shooting the whole army at them, or if they are an assault force, holding back their own troops.

 Meade wrote:

Salacious Greed wrote:
If I read this correctly, you're talking about infiltrating this keymaster, and assaulting on the first turn. Which you can't do under the rules in 6th. have to go second to assault from infiltrating.

Ah yes, I see that now.

And the steed of Slaanesh can't assault from outflank either

And the infiltration rule only works on infantry

Then yeah, I think best way to do it is a communications array, and lots of deepstriking units. Put the Keymaster in a bike unit and turboboost them turn one, manouvering them so its hard to shoot at them...

The opponent would have a very hard time either running away from the bikes, shooting the whole army at them, or if they are an assault force, holding back their own troops.

lol or just design a better strategy because the key has too much dependent on it to actually be worth purchasing. That mace looks like it could be fun.

Could infiltrate a unit or two of raptors, since they count as infantry still.

I have also started placing most of my aegis in the midfield for the cover saves. Since fliers cant get in until turn two it gives me time to advance and mount the quadgun. Even use the flatout move of a rhino to get into BTB. Being the line I will still get a 4+ save so it is quite handy for any advancing Rhino rush and the like armies.

Is anyone else sad our dreadnoughts have been renamed and remodelled to be a much larger target than our loyalists brothers?

its a bit...just...


....do whot?

In 6th

The Defiler has saves, armor, 4 hp, and ignores 1/3 of pens on a 2+, most of which it didn't have or wasn't relevant in 5th ed. It should go up to 'pay' for the new abilities. Same HP as a Land Raider and can smash in HtH.

Verdict: I don't like it, but I understand it.

Daemon Prince, recently, became FMC with the FAQ. That add's swooping vector striking and huuuuge boost to shooting defense. So giant flying HtH Daemon gains large boost to shooting defense and gains attack in the movement phase. So again, raise in price pretty evenly balances a large gain in relative effectiveness.

Verdict: I don't like it, but I understand it.

Bikers became viable, and add a little variation, mobility wise. Dark Mechanicum theme is amazing IMO. FA got more versatile and actually viable. Most characters improved, Ahriman becomes a gunboat, Dreadnaught and Spawn became usable, gained a blob unit and a priest analouge, and all characters gain potential stat boost, most lost points, and for feths sake a 27 point model has a 1-36 chance to become a demon prince. Your 1500 pt. army can end the game at 2000 pts. You gain a free(ish) tier 1 MC lottery ticket...on e'erbody. A freakin Cultist Champion has a Hail Mary shot, but he could theoretically transform into a Daemon Prince.

The flaws are well documented here, so I have a question instead.

If Steed of Sla'anesh gives your lord outflank, WTF else can you outflank with him? Right now I'm finding nothing, except possibly ally Daemon Cav. With Chosen losing infiltrate, how does anything else Outflank? Cause outflank and a black mace on a mounted Chaos Lord is about to demolish some Long Fangs.

Excited to hit the table. Lot's more competitive combo's available.

EDIT:
Dimensional Key thoughts: well not as good is icon beacons. It'll take 2-3 turns to activate unless something crazy happens. Not very useful until after it's needed, plus you need a tier 1 IC to weild it, wasting a slot and points on an already high value target. Pretty pffft.

cod3x wrote:
If Steed of Sla'anesh gives your lord outflank, WTF else can you outflank with him? Right now I'm finding nothing, except possibly ally Daemon Cav. With Chosen losing infiltrate, how does anything else Outflank? Cause outflank and a black mace on a mounted Chaos Lord is about to demolish some Long Fangs.

Take Huron or Ahriman and a Steed of Slaanesh lord with Black Mace and outflank D3 infantry units with him. Lots of infantry options, even some fast infantry options.

I have seen a few times in a few different feeds about a rule and want a straight answer about it. Do Daemon Princes in the new CSM:C have all there melee attacks at AP 2? Because they are monstrous creatures?
People have used examples about decking them out with the Artifact Mace and wrecking house.

If this is not a correct spot to ask I do apologize. I didn’t want to start a thread for this question. All answers and clarification would be huge and very much appreciated.

100

Lando

Dimensional Key is a very awkward bit of wargear. You need to kill a model in CC to activate t, meaning it's a pretty safe bet that you'll only get to do it on the last phase of turn 3 in most games.

What does that mean? That it will guide your Deep Strikers for only half the game, after many units have already come in from reserves.

The smash rule says that models with this rule regardless of smashing or not, strike at AP2(unless their weapon is Ap1)

 Mr. Balloon Hands wrote:
I have seen a few times in a few different feeds about a rule and want a straight answer about it. Do Daemon Princes in the new CSM:C have all there melee attacks at AP 2? Because they are monstrous creatures?
People have used examples about decking them out with the Artifact Mace and wrecking house.

If this is not a correct spot to ask I do apologize. I didn’t want to start a thread for this question. All answers and clarification would be huge and very much appreciated.

100

Lando

From what I understand, you wargear would trump any other rules you have. If you give your Sarge a fist, you don't say "Oh no, he doesn't get AP2 because he's regular infantry!" I would "assume" that if you decided to use a piece of wargear/weapon, you use the weapon/wargear profile. I could be totally wrong.