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 Omegus wrote:
We're talking about sonic weaponry, so you gotta add 3 points per blaster.

Now ask yourself how much each upgrade kit cost for a full squad to be equipped with sonic weapons. I just dont have the money to field them the way they need to be fielded.

I think this is what wuestenfux meant- ranged cover-denial.

That's a very good point. NM provide ranged cover-denial. An enemy unit that wants to get close must be aware that it cannot benefit from cover.

 Jihallah wrote:

I lolled

Those sonic blasters look like they would be absolutely deadly with the symphony of pain psychic power. Slap that on a sorcerer (you may need mastery 3 to get it all the time but still) and you'll be cutting down GEQ's faster than Tau with markerlights!

Get a slaanesh sorcerer or DP sorcerer and you can have S6 sonic weapons as the symphony stacks. 10 noise marines begin to clear marine squads out at that point.

30x Str 5 Sonic Blasters kills 4.5 marines, 6.7 when you get 4 models under the blastmaster template. That creates quite the problem imo, you're looking at a 2 - 3 dead GK paladins also. So if you add in another turn of firing. Thats on 3+ saves, it kills around 18 guardsmen tho.

Remember when a terminator squad is rolling 30 2+ saves it is statistcally losing 5 models to wounds. 20 Hits, 15 Wounds, you statistically lose 2.5 ish

Maths is off by like 0.3 in places but if you want to be a maths nazi go for it.

 Merc Row wrote:
I understand people are not happy with the new codex but I thinnk it rocks.
think about it and simple champion now having a chance to be a DP, come on whats not to love there.

This is balanced by the fact that Abaddon might become a Spawn. Worse yet, in many cases your Lords and Sorcerers becoming a Prince is actually a BAD thing. They lose termi armor, special weapon, bikes, get lower LD and may even get a worse Invulnerable save.

I'm waffling between Typhus and a basic terminator lord with MoN. Typhus is a beast, but you pay plenty for it. For similar points you can get a Nurgle terminator lord with a power axe, plus a bodyguard of 3 terminators with a power weapon and combi-bolter each. Now, if you want plague zombies Typhus is a must-have, but outside of that I feel like the lord + bodyguard is going to come out to be killier and more durable in most situations. Against MCs Typhus probably does better due to his force weapon and I may not be valuing his psychic powers enough, but the cheap lord seems like the way to go. (Heck, that model alone is a good 110 points less than Typhus.) Plus, with neither having EW, the lord is less of a loss if you eat Str10.

 Sephyr wrote:

 Merc Row wrote:
I understand people are not happy with the new codex but I thinnk it rocks.
think about it and simple champion now having a chance to be a DP, come on whats not to love there.

This is balanced by the fact that Abaddon might become a Spawn. Worse yet, in many cases your Lords and Sorcerers becoming a Prince is actually a BAD thing. They lose termi armor, special weapon, bikes, get lower LD and may even get a worse Invulnerable save.

And if it's a crowded melee where you can't place the larger model, they are just dead.

 DakkaHammer wrote:

 Jihallah wrote:

I lolled

Those sonic blasters look like they would be absolutely deadly with the symphony of pain psychic power. Slap that on a sorcerer (you may need mastery 3 to get it all the time but still) and you'll be cutting down GEQ's faster than Tau with markerlights!

The problem is that due to the rules for rolling on the chaos psychic table means that if you are a mastery level 3 you may only roll twice on the Slaanesh table. A psyker must roll once on his gods table but may not generate more than half of his powers from the table; so 3 / 2 = 1.5 = 2. Which means it is not a sure thing unfortunately. While some of the powers are decent I feel that if you miss the power you want the primaris power is rarely any better. Though I will admit that other two powers on the Slaanesh table are not terrible consolation prizes.

Tzeentch table is pretty poo imo and i think the slaanesh is alright but nothing special. I like the nurgle one alot however, comes with anti TEQ pie plate, a curse that is 50/50 and a gets hot applier.

I came up against a power blob of 30 guardsmen with Typhus, who successfuly gave them gets hot. He killed 22 guardsmen by them shooting 90 lasgun shots with FRFSRF which is quite good He did pass all his saves tho and proceeded to wipe them out with the pie plate.

Saevius wrote:

 DakkaHammer wrote:

 Jihallah wrote:

I lolled

Those sonic blasters look like they would be absolutely deadly with the symphony of pain psychic power. Slap that on a sorcerer (you may need mastery 3 to get it all the time but still) and you'll be cutting down GEQ's faster than Tau with markerlights!

The problem is that due to the rules for rolling on the chaos psychic table means that if you are a mastery level 3 you may only roll twice on the Slaanesh table. A psyker must roll once on his gods table but may not generate more than half of his powers from the table; so 3 / 2 = 1.5 = 2. Which means it is not a sure thing unfortunately. While some of the powers are decent I feel that if you miss the power you want the primaris power is rarely any better. Though I will admit that other two powers on the Slaanesh table are not terrible consolation prizes.

Why?

 Omegus wrote:

Saevius wrote:
A psyker must roll once on his gods table but may not generate more than half of his powers from the table.

Why?

It is a rule in the codex - presumably to prevent you from being guaranteed the power you want from the chaos god psychic tables, despite them being more compacy than the standard 6E psychic tables.

Still, two rolls on the table gives a good chance of getting what you want... and, honestly, the Slaanesh table is probably the strongest of them. (With Tzeentch not far behind, and Nurgle, imo, a distant last, with the only decent power the 2-pointer.)

I don't see anything wrong with the Tzeentch powers. Doombolt is obviously good. Breath of Chaos isn't exactly weak and doesn't scatter like the Nurgle one. Boon of Mutation gives you a permanent buff to cast while you're out of range for other powers, with a very small chance of backfiring. Tzeentch's Firestorm seems like the weakest, but even that isn't bad against fodder.

I like all three of the nurgle powers, the ranges are pretty decent, one makes all their weapons have get hot. Great on any Volume of fire unit including vehicles. The other is just a debilitating spell that has a great range and all of the effects are pretty beneficial when you plan on assaulting, or they are planning on assaulting you.

I've found that making people's weapons Get Hot! is a good way of making them think twice about firing Overwatch. When your odds of taking a wound are the same as hititng the target, everyone but MeQs and TeQ's might get a bit nervous, and even those may fear their luck on the dice.

I really can't wait to use it on Lootas.

So I'm still feeling out 6th ed (I don't get to a tabletop often).

I'm trying to build around a chaos lord with MoS and Black Mace. I was looking at putting him on a steed, then attaching to a unit to give the entire unit Outflank. Can I attach a lord on a steed (cavalry) to an infantry unit? Or only other cav.? If Infantry, then having some Noise Marines come in from side edge might make those salvo's better, and as noted they can't be easily dislodged in melee either with the striking first thing. Champ with a Power Sword/Claw would work I think.

Second, I have considered a bike instead. With turbo your pretty much gonna be anywhere on turn 2 you could get to with Outflank, and you have melta's on what amounts to termies with 1 less armor save and FNP.

Lord on bike- Black Mace, MoS, Bike, maybe a combi
5 Bikers- MoS, Icon of Excess, 2 Melta's, Champ with Lightning Claw and Gift of Mutation.

Thats a 380-400 ish unit with 3+5++, up to 4++ on turbo turn, with FNP on top. That's a survivable unit. Monsters in HtH, 2-3 Melta shots, and they all get Move Through Cover thanks to the Lord.

Cheaper than the Wraithgaurd deathstar by almost half, and can eat about as much. What are your thoughts?

You have some good ideas, now put them together and you've nailed it; take that Steed Lord and put him with the Bikes.

How would you guys make this unit cheaper but keep its role the same (Function like Grey Hunters)?

10 Chaos Space Marines
CCW on 9 guys since Champion already has one
Veterans of the Long War
2 Plasma Guns
Mark of Khorne
Champion with Power Sword and Melta Bombs
Rhino

273 points

If you want to make it cheaper, what about taking out the rhino? They are just a free VP in Scourge, and with 2 Plasmaguns they have decent threat ranges. As long as you move them up the field under cover, they should be about as safe as they are in the tin box.

Either that, or drop the plasmas and take meltas, so they can still fire and assault. That would only save you 10 points, but I am assuming you are taking the squad as an assaulting unit by the way you are gearing them.

 AresX8 wrote:
How would you guys make this unit cheaper but keep its role the same (Function like Grey Hunters)?

10 Chaos Space Marines
CCW on 9 guys since Champion already has one
Veterans of the Long War
2 Plasma Guns
Mark of Khorne
Champion with Power Sword and Melta Bombs
Rhino

273 points

Drop the Mark and the Veteran upgrade and that will save you 30pts and they will still have most of the capabilities of Grey Hunters.

Note how the operative term 'most' here, as for the record, even with the similarities, CSMs are missing a lot of rules that the undercosted Grey Hunters have, some of which greatly dictate their role.

Im thinking for nastiness something like

Lord with lightning claw, powerfist, sigil, bike, VotlW 155
10 bikes with MoS, VotlW, Icon of Excess. Champ with a power sword. 280

The unit is 3+/5++ and gets a ton of hits at high int when it charges. The champ can hopefully kill of other sergeants. The lord can take powerfist hits with his 4++ and then 5+ while dishing out his own. If he doesnt need the fist, he can strike at init to rape a squad.

Saevius wrote:

 DakkaHammer wrote:

 Jihallah wrote:

I lolled

Those sonic blasters look like they would be absolutely deadly with the symphony of pain psychic power. Slap that on a sorcerer (you may need mastery 3 to get it all the time but still) and you'll be cutting down GEQ's faster than Tau with markerlights!

The problem is that due to the rules for rolling on the chaos psychic table means that if you are a mastery level 3 you may only roll twice on the Slaanesh table. A psyker must roll once on his gods table but may not generate more than half of his powers from the table; so 3 / 2 = 1.5 = 2. Which means it is not a sure thing unfortunately. While some of the powers are decent I feel that if you miss the power you want the primaris power is rarely any better. Though I will admit that other two powers on the Slaanesh table are not terrible consolation prizes.

oh for f...

thanks gw, thanks. my master slaaneshi sorcerer can't have all of his powers as slaaneshi powers <_< I can already hear the reedy whiny voices of greasy emancipated/bloated and swollen bespectacled nerds- "you can take 3 powers but only half can be of that particular god, and 1.5 is half of 3 and you can't take half a power so you only get to roll once, nyaaar, ohgodpleasestopbeltingmeovertheheadwithmyarmycaseaaaarrrgghhhh"

I have anger problems <_<



On a more important note, the nurgle powers seems to be the most solid of them all. The only one I wouldn't want most games is nurgles rot funnily enough


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Exergy wrote:
Im thinking for nastiness something like

Lord with lightning claw, powerfist, sigil, bike, VotlW 155
10 bikes with MoS, VotlW, Icon of Excess. Champ with a power sword. 280

The unit is 3+/5++ and gets a ton of hits at high int when it charges. The champ can hopefully kill of other sergeants. The lord can take powerfist hits with his 4++ and then 5+ while dishing out his own. If he doesnt need the fist, he can strike at init to rape a squad.

Hohohohohohohohoho

Last edition when I started my khorne cult I bought a gakload of bikers, for the "why not" factor and to flesh out my options
I assembled the bikes but when I playtested swiftclaw bikers didn't do it for me, so I've got alot of bikes just waiting for riders with gear
including a few fancypants HQ looking rides

hohohohohohohoho!

 Exergy wrote:
Im thinking for nastiness something like

Lord with lightning claw, powerfist, sigil, bike, VotlW 155
10 bikes with MoS, VotlW, Icon of Excess. Champ with a power sword. 280

The unit is 3+/5++ and gets a ton of hits at high int when it charges. The champ can hopefully kill of other sergeants. The lord can take powerfist hits with his 4++ and then 5+ while dishing out his own. If he doesnt need the fist, he can strike at init to rape a squad.

Jink is a cover save, not an invulnerable save.

 Omegus wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
Im thinking for nastiness something like

Lord with lightning claw, powerfist, sigil, bike, VotlW 155
10 bikes with MoS, VotlW, Icon of Excess. Champ with a power sword. 280

The unit is 3+/5++ and gets a ton of hits at high int when it charges. The champ can hopefully kill of other sergeants. The lord can take powerfist hits with his 4++ and then 5+ while dishing out his own. If he doesnt need the fist, he can strike at init to rape a squad.

Jink is a cover save, not an invulnerable save.

And where did he say otherwise? More importantly, where did he even mention Jink?

 Omegus wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
Im thinking for nastiness something like

Lord with lightning claw, powerfist, sigil, bike, VotlW 155
10 bikes with MoS, VotlW, Icon of Excess. Champ with a power sword. 280

The unit is 3+/5++ and gets a ton of hits at high int when it charges. The champ can hopefully kill of other sergeants. The lord can take powerfist hits with his 4++ and then 5+ while dishing out his own. If he doesnt need the fist, he can strike at init to rape a squad.

Jink is a cover save, not an invulnerable save.

yes, but FNP is the 5+, so they have 3+/5+, 5+FNP.

 AresX8 wrote:
How would you guys make this unit cheaper but keep its role the same (Function like Grey Hunters)?

10 Chaos Space Marines
CCW on 9 guys since Champion already has one
Veterans of the Long War
2 Plasma Guns
Mark of Khorne
Champion with Power Sword and Melta Bombs
Rhino

273 points

Use Codex: Space Wolves.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 AresX8 wrote:
How would you guys make this unit cheaper but keep its role the same (Function like Grey Hunters)?

10 Chaos Space Marines
CCW on 9 guys since Champion already has one
Veterans of the Long War
2 Plasma Guns
Mark of Khorne
Champion with Power Sword and Melta Bombs
Rhino

273 points

Use Codex: Space Wolves.

Stop trying to be grey hunters with a dex that no longer supports being grey hunters. Shave 48 points by dropping the bolters and plasma. If they rapid fire they can't assault, and a lot of points were already dumped into mok, votlw, and wrath. The 9 mok marines will average 18 wounds & 6 failed armor saves when they charge loyalist marines. Rapid fire bolters need 3 shots to wound and 9 shots to drop a meq. Stick with what the codex is good at.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Exergy wrote:

 Omegus wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
Im thinking for nastiness something like

Lord with lightning claw, powerfist, sigil, bike, VotlW 155
10 bikes with MoS, VotlW, Icon of Excess. Champ with a power sword. 280

The unit is 3+/5++ and gets a ton of hits at high int when it charges. The champ can hopefully kill of other sergeants. The lord can take powerfist hits with his 4++ and then 5+ while dishing out his own. If he doesnt need the fist, he can strike at init to rape a squad.

Jink is a cover save, not an invulnerable save.

yes, but FNP is the 5+, so they have 3+/5+, 5+FNP.

The murder sword is also pretty nasty in the hands of a bike lord.

Another option is a level 3 unmarked sorcerer can take a bike and join the bike squad. Can keep his force sword, swap his pistol out for the murder sword, buy a 4+ invo, and roll 3 times on biomancy.

I've been working on making a biker sorcerer for my list.

3 rolls on biomancy, surrounded by t6 nurgle bikes, and I Iike the spell familiar just because of how many psychic tests a lvl 3 sorcerer can end up taking.

My only issue is it gets pretty pricey adding more than that for a 2 wound model...

 Orkaswampa wrote:
Get a slaanesh sorcerer or DP sorcerer and you can have S6 sonic weapons as the symphony stacks. 10 noise marines begin to clear marine squads out at that point.

30x Str 5 Sonic Blasters kills 4.5 marines, 6.7 when you get 4 models under the blastmaster template. That creates quite the problem imo, you're looking at a 2 - 3 dead GK paladins also. So if you add in another turn of firing. Thats on 3+ saves, it kills around 18 guardsmen tho.

Remember when a terminator squad is rolling 30 2+ saves it is statistcally losing 5 models to wounds. 20 Hits, 15 Wounds, you statistically lose 2.5 ish

Maths is off by like 0.3 in places but if you want to be a maths nazi go for it.

How many points is that (300?)

I'll have trukk of boyz with mega warboss. I sit in 25". You do nothing. I drive my trukk 24". You blow up my trukk and I assault you with only warboss and win. If you deside to move you can't even blow up my trukk.

 illuknisaa wrote:

 Orkaswampa wrote:
Get a slaanesh sorcerer or DP sorcerer and you can have S6 sonic weapons as the symphony stacks. 10 noise marines begin to clear marine squads out at that point.

30x Str 5 Sonic Blasters kills 4.5 marines, 6.7 when you get 4 models under the blastmaster template. That creates quite the problem imo, you're looking at a 2 - 3 dead GK paladins also. So if you add in another turn of firing. Thats on 3+ saves, it kills around 18 guardsmen tho.

Remember when a terminator squad is rolling 30 2+ saves it is statistcally losing 5 models to wounds. 20 Hits, 15 Wounds, you statistically lose 2.5 ish

Maths is off by like 0.3 in places but if you want to be a maths nazi go for it.

How many points is that (300?)

I'll have trukk of boyz with mega warboss. I sit in 25". You do nothing. I drive my trukk 24". You blow up my trukk and I assault you with only warboss and win. If you deside to move you can't even blow up my trukk.

You think a Warboss alone will win that outcome? He charges, takes 30 shots overwatch, and then gets challenged out and is stuck in combat. And all of that is under your ridiculous assumption that an Ork Trukk can sit anywhere for a turn without getting blown up. You sit at your 25" and something else in the army will blow it up, leaving your boyz stranded, and you realising your idea wasn't so smart after all. And what will be killing those boys as they advance? Noise Marines.

I'll have trukk of boyz with mega warboss. I sit in 25". You do nothing. I drive my trukk 24". You blow up my trukk and I assault you with only warboss and win. If you deside to move you can't even blow up my trukk.