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It's 1 DE, it doesn't come from the weapon profile, it just happens. And it only happens should you get a lucky hit against an opponent with armor that you can't get through.

It's not bonus damage, it's DE that occurs if you wouldn't normally get through the armor.

Say I roll to hit you with my 2 attacks. The AP is taken out of the attack, and I roll 8s to hit you. If you've got 5AR, I drop your AR by 1 (say I have a pistol and sword). IF I hit with both of those attacks, I won't deal any VY damage because I didn't overcome your armor. Now if I roll an 8 and a 9 and still hit you, I've reduced your 5AR by 1 due to AP on my weapons. Then I hit you with 1 attack (say my sword), which would drop your AR by an additional point. You still have 3 AR left. So my Pistol, normally wouldn't do any DE since it's only 1 DE and you have 3AR left. BUT since I rolled a lucky hit, I've managed to find a chink in your armor, and manage to do 1 DE. The principles apply no matter the weapon that's used, if I hit you with a lucky hit, I deal 1 DE.

Now if you I were attacking you with 2 Red Wu with Pikes, and you had Medium Armor 3AR. the AP on my Pikes removes 1 AR (you're down to 2AR since AP doesn't stack, you only count the highest AP). Then I roll to hit, and both of them hit, and 1 of those hits is a Lucky hit. The first attack removes the 2 AR you have left, and the other one (the lucky hit) hits you for 2 VY since you have no AR left. Now if I were to have missed with that first Pike, but still got my Lucky Hit with the second pike, I wouldn't normally deal VY damage because I don't have enough damage to break through your AR, but the lucky hit deals 1 DE, because I found a gap in your armor... thus why it's lucky.

Remember, Criticals always hit regardless of totals, and they deal DE and Ignore AR. Lucky Hits MUST hit the target and must not degrade AR to 0. If you degrade AR to 0 with a lucky hit, it's a regular hit.

Make sense?

It's just a single point of bonus damage that only appears if you wouldn't have done damage to the target's VY

Am I not understanding what you're saying? I'm not trying to be difficult.

The rest of my stuff arrived today btw, Emily.

 Casey's Law wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Casey's Law wrote:
So there's no way to annotate?

I don't want to download a bypass 'cause it seems a bit shifty but I do like to add notes so I might have to anyway.

Without Adobe Acrobat (not Acrobat reader) I don't know of a way to edit pdf files... You may have to take a notebook with you and jot your notes like that....

Adobe Reader for Android is fully capable of adding annotations. The problem is the file is 'protected' which stops me using that tool. Can you remove that status?

There is no option in Indesign that I am seeing to make something 'protected' or 'unprotected', nor is there anything about disabling annotations.

Hmmm, it's definitely got a big ole lock on it.

If you can see about taking it off it'd be really great.

 Casey's Law wrote:
Hmmm, it's definitely got a big ole lock on it.

If you can see about taking it off it'd be really great.

My only guess is the Watermarking provided by WargameVault is causing it, and if so, you're stuck with it.

Mercs isn't locked if that helps.

 Casey's Law wrote:
Mercs isn't locked if that helps.

Does it have the WargameVault Watermark?

It's Wargames Vault... I just downloaded the mercs document from them, and it was watermarked, and while I could make comments, I could not save the PDF. And the same holds true for the 2nd Ed Rulebook. It's protected by Adobe's DRM...

The problem is I have no idea where the watermark is or what it looks like. I thought it was digital when you first mentioned it which I wouldn't be able to find.

What I have just noticed is the 1st e and 2nd e rulebook have order numbers in the bottom left of each page which Mercs doesn't. I got them all from WV but I can annotate Mercs as I please and save it for later.

The "order number" on the bottom left hand corner is the watermark It should contain your name and a number.

So Lucky 1 DE is bonus damage.

Just one thing about this: If I attack one enemy unit with five of my own, I have to get trough it's AR and VY combined minus my squad's biggest AP. Let's say all my attacks hit. Most likely I will have to get trought the whole AR+VY-AP. I may score a crit or two but not all, so I will have to apply this amount of damage. Lucky hits are the best I can get and not Crits. Crits will not matter in the grand scheme of this attack since it only going to reduce the AR+VY-AP amount with the weapon's damage. Lucky's however are much better because they shred one more point. I find this wierd. Yeah, it's no difference if the defender has no armor, but even rat raiders have more armor than life points.

Speaking of rat raiders. If I equip a squad with Poleax except one wich is on anything else, I have a squad that has 1 AP and most members deal 3 DE. (also immune fire, immune poison, immune shock). Actually this is confusing. Will that one rat raider get Shock, poison or fire? It propably is. I might have to mark that one tough.

But this goes somewhere... Five member on Poleax, five on Medium Armor and five on Pike. This squad has 1 AP, the highest most common body AR is 3, the highest most common shield AR is 2 altough I don't think I can count the highest most common AR against ranged attacks to be 5, but 4 is not bad at all. During charge I put the Poleax ones to the first line for maxing out damage...

I can activate this squad trough the horde special rule, but can I use the next logic?
I can activate the Warlord, and trough Dishonor Guard, those rat raiders with him and trough the rat raider's horde nature, any other type of rat raider around?

(I shoud go to sleep, I just wanted to share this)

On Page 6, armor piercing
Why is it important it is also gets applied when the attack misses? it get's appied before any attack roll, so adding this extra info is just confusing.

And what about attack roll over then? AP is ignored when an attack rolls over to a model that is not in the defending squad?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I screwed it up. The Highest most common armor is 1. both the body and the shield armor. But having just two types of rat raider still can be interesting.

Luckies DO NOT give 1 DE extra if you actually deal damage.

If your model deals damage to the target's VY, Lucky Hits Do not do anything beyond what a regular attack would do.

Its only a little bonus for when you wouldn't have actually harmed the model.

Additionally, even if you get 20 lucky hits and still manage to not get through AR.. its still only 1 DE.

On the Rat Raider, each model only has what it has, It does not give its squad the bonuses. Just having an Ordenstaat Rat in the squad does not make the full squad immune to stuff, just that one Rat. If a Poleax Rat and a Pike Rat both attack the same target model, then the Higher AP applies. If the Pike Rat attacks a different model from the Poleax Rat you get whatever AP is actually attacking the model.


Only the Rats with Dishonor Guard would be able to activate with the Warlord.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
So Lucky 1 DE is bonus damage.

Just one thing about this: If I attack one enemy unit with five of my own, I have to get trough it's AR and VY combined minus my squad's biggest AP. Let's say all my attacks hit. Most likely I will have to get trought the whole AR+VY-AP. I may score a crit or two but not all, so I will have to apply this amount of damage. Lucky hits are the best I can get and not Crits. Crits will not matter in the grand scheme of this attack since it only going to reduce the AR+VY-AP amount with the weapon's damage. Lucky's however are much better because they shred one more point. I find this wierd. Yeah, it's no difference if the defender has no armor, but even rat raiders have more armor than life points.

Crits = Damage of the Weapon ignoring armor, happens whether or not you lower AR to 0 or not.

Lucky Hits = 1DE and ONLY if you would normally hit with that roll (so a 9+MS > enemy's Roll+Evade Skill) AND you don't do enough damage to lower AR to 0. If you do enough damage to lower AR to 0, then your Lucky Hit = Regular hit...

 Cyporiean wrote:


On the Rat Raider, each model only has what it has, It does not give its squad the bonuses. Just having an Ordenstaat Rat in the squad does not make the full squad immune to stuff, just that one Rat. If a Poleax Rat and a Pike Rat both attack the same target model, then the Higher AP applies. If the Pike Rat attacks a different model from the Poleax Rat you get whatever AP is actually attacking the model.

Now I'm confused. Armor Penetration says "The highest AP of the attacking Squad applies to all Models of the defending Squad", so activating a Pike rat with the Poleax rats does gives the squad 1 AP(and ruins the whole day for the enemy squad). And since squad targets squad and not individual models target individual models, this cheesiness (get it? ) does seems to work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alfndrate wrote:

Lucky Hits = 1DE and ONLY if you would normally hit with that roll (so a 9+MS > enemy's Roll+Evade Skill) AND you don't do enough damage to lower AR to 0. If you do enough damage to lower AR to 0, then your Lucky Hit = Regular hit...

Isn't that... you don't do enough damage to lower the AR to 0 AND exceed that with at least one point? If the defender has 2 AR and you hit with 2 DE, that attack still get's blocked by armor.

I think I finally understand how does it works.

How would a poleaxe rat and a pike rat even activate in the same squad, they aren't equipped the same.

I know I'm probably missing something simple here though

Rat Raiders are horde infantry which allows them to activate with different equipment.

 Alfndrate wrote:
The "order number" on the bottom left hand corner is the watermark It should contain your name and a number.

Oh, balls. It seems to be an entirely random number, no name, and the the Mercenaries PDF doesn't have it but I haven't updated that for a while. Does that mean it's a new thing they've started doing and if so could they remove it?

Also I just read back over this PDF conversation as a refresher and I've been a bit sharp. Sorry about that, I'm just replying on the fly, no harm meant.

Aaaand! I realised I very rudely never said 'thanks' for getting those cards and dice to me. So thanks!

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Rat Raiders are horde infantry which allows them to activate with different equipment.

Paired with your cat avatar, your response made me laugh. Thanks for setting me straight

My name is Maurice and these are my Educated Rodents.

Anyone who likes Pratchett is OK in my book.


Also you are correct about AP in melee, the highest applies to all models in the target squad.

And Alph misspoke, if you only reduce AR to 0, but do no damage to VY, you get the 1 DE from lucky hit.

I'm going to be holding blind playtesting this weekend in Massillon and Ashland, Ohio. I know we've got a lot of international players, but if anyone is lurking in these forums is near these locations, send me a PM.

I have to say I'm really looking forward to the new Aquitar units...

I will have a Bel Neyette... Just have to find someone to sculpt him in a lab coat for me...

The Grenadier's are going to be interesting... I'd hate to face them in combat. I'm excited for drummers and standard bearers. They should really enhance large blobs of my infantry allowing me to use proper nepolionic tactics. I actually think these new units are going to steer me away from useing unique exemplars.

I really like the changes to the Fusilier's

What do blast goggles do?

Lab Coat?

Blast Goggles should be Blast Armor (same thing as the Gophers)

 Cyporiean wrote:
Lab Coat?

Blast Goggles should be Blast Armor (same thing as the Gophers)

Bah get it right The One and Only

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Lab Coat?

Blast Goggles should be Blast Armor (same thing as the Gophers)

Bah get it right The One and Only

I figured thats who you were thinking of.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Lab Coat?

Blast Goggles should be Blast Armor (same thing as the Gophers)

Bah get it right The One and Only

I figured thats who you were thinking of.

Any attempt to convince me that thats not who its based on won't work lady!

 Cyporiean wrote:
A little gift for Whiteroo.

This will be included in the next WargameVault update, but I want to wait until I get a few factions done before spaming that out to everyone.

Whoa, some really cool stuff in those Vandalands 2ed cards!

Wish the rat raider and hedge knight art was colored, though

Thanks for posting it

All in due time.

 RiTides wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
A little gift for Whiteroo.

This will be included in the next WargameVault update, but I want to wait until I get a few factions done before spaming that out to everyone.

Whoa, some really cool stuff in those Vandalands 2ed cards!

Wish the rat raider and hedge knight art was colored, though

Thanks for posting it

Ain't no pleasing you

Also, Cy, we should get Misk to man the forums while we're gone