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Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest





 Kingsley wrote:
Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
[They were released at $20 a box, as were warriors. Raiders were $30, and Ravagers $50 (as I recall). Several months later it all jumped up by about 10%, and then it jumped again (by about as much) at some point, and then again, up to $27 for ten wyches and I stopped looking at the prices at that point.


Looks like we were both wrong-- Wyches and Warriors were both 25 USD at release.

That may well be. I could have sworn they were $20 though, because I remember them increasing to $22 just a few months later... I may be remembering discount prices, it's all a bit foggy at the moment. So the increases aren't quite as bad as I remembered, GW is still declining in a thriving industry.

 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

There are certainly individual products where the price has increased very little. For example, the Tau Devilfish has gone from £15.32 to £18.33 from 2004 to 2013, (I have deducted the VAT) which is only 20% increase, probably lower than inflation.

However in the context of buying a whole Tau army, the price increases on lots of other units more than make up for the difference.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Kilkrazy wrote:
There are certainly individual products where the price has increased very little. For example, the Tau Devilfish has gone from £15.32 to £18.33 from 2004 to 2013, (I have deducted the VAT) which is only 20% increase, probably lower than inflation.

However in the context of buying a whole Tau army, the price increases on lots of other units more than make up for the difference.


I'll have to see if I can find it - but I actually have a spreadsheet of all the core armies using builds that I took out of the WD magazine that illustrates the point quite clearly. A little help with the points value to deal with that issue as well as I haven't bothered in keeping up with Codices since for quite some time....
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

A box of 10 Marines was $29.95 when I started, now they're $60-odd. They're different models sure, but if you're allowed to apply that for metal-to-plastic, then why not plastic-to-different-plastic?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A box of 10 Marines was $29.95 when I started, now they're $60-odd. They're different models sure, but if you're allowed to apply that for metal-to-plastic, then why not plastic-to-different-plastic?


Yah - but yer Australian...you guys make too much money, so it is just fairer that way...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/09 06:18:47


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I'd laugh, but you misspelt 'you're'.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/09 06:11:04


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Bleh...that is what I get for staying up past my bed time...better now?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/09 06:18:57


 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought





UK

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A box of 10 Marines was $29.95 when I started, now they're $60-odd. They're different models sure, but if you're allowed to apply that for metal-to-plastic, then why not plastic-to-different-plastic?


Yah - but yer Australian...you guys make too much money, so it is just fairer that way...


Honestly, Aussies get robbed that much, Id just take a yearly vacation to Europe to go beer tasting for a fortnight and then buy all my models there. Strip the boxes and sprues down, I bet I could fit 2 grands worth of models in my suitcase with some scientific packing.


We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 mattyrm wrote:


Honestly, Aussies get robbed that much, Id just take a yearly vacation to Europe to go beer tasting for a fortnight and then buy all my models there. Strip the boxes and sprues down, I bet I could fit 2 grands worth of models in my suitcase with some scientific packing.



The trick is to take suitcases which fit in each other, so you go there with 1 and come back with 2.

Or take only clothes you hate on vacation and throw them all out when you get ready to leave.

Hell, it may even be cost effective to buy stuff, then go to a shipping store and just ship yourself a package.

My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA." 
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block




Sydney, Australia

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A box of 10 Marines was $29.95 when I started, now they're $60-odd. They're different models sure, but if you're allowed to apply that for metal-to-plastic, then why not plastic-to-different-plastic?


Yah - but yer Australian...you guys make too much money, so it is just fairer that way...


We actually don't, our cost of living is higher so our wages are inflated to match.

For example, the Holden SS in Australia costs $50,000 brand new roughly. Imported to USA and re-badged Pontiac, and it costs USA $25,000. This is a car that is supposedly made on Australian shores, yet USA gets it cheaper after import, taxes and LHD conversion. We get ripped off in all aspects of living, and our wages simply equalise the normality of it all.

That said, Warhammer is one of the most expensive hobbies you could take up when you consider cost of a meal to cost of a box of SM in both countries. They're just gouging us really hard, and the majority of hobbyists do not buy into GW, yet GW think the segment of the market who do buy into it, is as much of a large portion as they're going to get from Australia. And they are way off, they're probably missing out on what could be triple the sales if they lowered prices to what USA pay.

So off basic math, they're charging us 150% ontop of USA pay. 1 in 5 customers buy into it, 3 are turned away, 1 not interested lets say. Lower the prices and you're still making a quadruple sale where you were not before. Maths isn't my strongsuit, but GW are being idiots thinking this is they own they hobby market in Australia when they could actually have so much more if they weren't so greedy about it.

I mean here's me, a newbie to it all, and I'd rather get a friend in the UK purchase my army for a quarter of the price overall and send it to me via post to avoid being ripped off. It shows I want to get into the hobby - to the point of reaching out that much. But not at the cost GW want to enforce on Australian, so the sales statistic will go towards UK. Others may buy from USA. So statistical data that GW may rely on sales for, is very skewed when your market is buying from the other. Forcing prices up further to try to offset expenditure and wondering why people aren't buying into the hobby. We are, but not at the price they're asking.

If GW don't realise this soon, they will blame our lack of hobby market interest and most likely shut the stores down completely removing themselves from the market, when they never even tried outside of thinking Aussie hobbyists are cashed up idiots who don't know how to use a PC. If they actually got someone with an IQ to sit there and look at the overall infastructure and direction of GW australia, maybe they would stand a chance. But multiple 1 manning stores is just an indicator that something is drastically wrong on the back end. Shutting a store down for an hour lunch break is losing an hours possible sales. 1 hour of 8 possible lost income is better than hiring a second staff member to cover, or even a casual?

Does that not cry out distress for a business, or at the very least downsizing? I know one thing is very certain, EOFY is going to be very interesting for GW.

PS. On an afterthought, I'm all for the closure of GW stores if it means Australians have access to purchase items at UK price via the website. Zero cost of running to GW, hobby clubs then become where we play. I mean, it's heading in that direction isn't it? Stores halting gaming and relying on clubs to take over. I even heard the manager today say Armies on Parade may not even happen this year, does that mean that GamesDay Australia may not even happen? Who knows.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/09 14:23:22


   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior





New Jersey, USA

Stranger83 wrote:
Going slightly offtopic, I've seen lots of people mention the price of the hobby as a "bad" thing. Whilst GW is more expensive than most other wargaming companies I still think that as a hobby it is pretty damn cheap.

I have 2 armies for 40k, and an army for Warhammer (and a bunch of stuff for other games to, but lets keep to GW for now) in the 20 years I've been playing, counting going to conventions, paints, scenary and eveything I have probably spent around £10k on GW stuff.

Now lets look at my other hobby, which I've been doing for 2 years, of Archery. Here I spent £3k on a reasonable bow - certainly not the best around - and another £1k on accessaries. I spend £200 every 3 months on a new set of arrows and £150 every 6 months on a new target. I also need to spend £120 a month in club membership, and whilst I havn't been to a tournament yet the cost of these is also much higher than wargame tournaments. Over a similar 20 year period I really wouldn't be surprised if I spend closer to £50k on Archery.

So, whilst GW is an expensive hobby when compared to other wargames (and I suppose CCGs should probably be in there too as they tend to attract the same people) in terms of a hobby it's actually surprisingly cheap. Obviously this is based on the UK, in Australia it may well be that other hobbies are much cheaper and GW wargaming is very expensive over there.


I've spent around $3000 this year alone on biking/cycling stuff and a new bike. Gym/Supplements? 300-400$ on top of that. On Warmachine? 800$ or so, this will go up to around $1200 by summer. Agreed

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut








Don't worry - I am with you all the way on GW bending the Australian (and to a lesser extent Canadian Markets) over...that was mostly a preemptive snarky response since someone will no doubt chime in on how much more people get paid in Australia and all the rest. It is actually even worse than a lot of people think though - since GW UK prices all have their 20% VAT and that is what they use for their base line to start doing their funky regional pricing calculations...so even though US prices are closer to UK prices in terms of exchange rates and the price posted on their website...we are getting hit with an additional 20% price hike since they are not collecting VAT here, but using the price with VAT to calculate the regional price.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Army Prices then and Now...

Just a handful of them that I repriced this morning to reflect current prices. One of them is illegal now for certain (CSM with daemons) - but the rest should still be legal lists IIRC. The actual points values will have changed of course, but this should illustrate on the larger scale how prices have uniformly increased across the board even though you might have one thing which hasn't gone up much (or possibly even dropped in the case of the Plaguebearers). Just a point of reference - the rate of inflation between 2004 and now is 22.9% ($100 in 2004 would be $122.90 now). While I don't think inflation should apply to non-essential goods, and generally does not in every other case...some people like to use that argument to justify the price hikes.

Space Marines – 1500 point Army WD264 January 2002
Spoiler:
Commander – 176
5 bodyguard
Rhino Transport – 68
5 Terminators – 185
Dreadnought – 115
Dreadnought – 128
6 Tactical Space Marines – 112
Rhino Transport – 58
7 Tactical Space Marines – 105
6 Tactical Space Marines – 101
8 Assault Marines – 212
9 Devastator Marines – 240

FY2004 Prices: $370.00
One Metal SM Captain ($10), 5 Man Combat Squad ($15), 2 Rhinos ($25 each), 1 Box Terminators ($30), 2 Dreadnoughts ($35 each), 2 Boxes Tactical Marines ($30 each), 2 Boxes Assault Marines ($25 each), 2 Boxes Devastators ($35 each), Codex Space Marines ($15).

FY2013 Prices (Present): $516.00
One Plastic SM Commander kit ($22.25), 5 Man Combat Squad ($25), 2 Rhinos ($37.25 each), 1 Box Terminators ($50), 2 Dreadnoughts ($46.25 each), 2 Boxes Tactical Marines ($37.25 each), 2 Boxes Assault Marines ($33 each), 2 Boxes Devastators ($35 each), Codex Space Marines ($41.25)


39.4% Increase.

Tau – 1500 point Army WD264 January 2002
Spoiler:
XV-8 Commander – 139
2 XV-8 Bodyguard – 150
Ethereal Aun’to – 50
3 XV-8 – 183
1 XV-8 with 2 gun drones – 68
12 Fire Warriors – 132
12 Fire Warriors – 132
12 Kroot Carnivores, 3 Kroot Hounds – 102
12 Kroot Carnivores, 3 Kroot Hounds – 102
3 XV-88 Broadsides – 267
1 Hammerhead Gunship – 175

FY2004 Prices: $402
7 XV-8 Crisis Suits ($15 each), 1 Metal Ethereal ($10), 2 Boxes Fire Warriors ($30 each), 2 Boxes Kroot ($30 each), 3 2 Figure Sets of Kroot Hounds ($8 each), 3 XV-88 Broadsides ($30 each), 1 Hammerhead ($35), Codex Tau ($20)

FY2013 Prices (Present): $641
1 XV-8 Commander ($41), 2 Boxes of 3 XV-8 Crisis Suits ($65 each), 1 Ethereal ($16), 2 Boxes of Fire Warriors ($36.25 each), 2 Boxes of Kroot ($36.25 each), 2 4 Figure Sets of Kroot Hounds ($24.75 each), 3 XV-88 Broadsides ($50 each), 1 Hammerhead ($60), Codex Tau ($49.50)


59.4% Increase

Eldar – 2000 point Army WD266 March 2002
Spoiler:
Eldrad – 246
Seer Council (3 Farseers, 5 Warlocks) – 392
10 Howling Banshees with Exarch– 189
Wave Serpent – 135
5 Fire Dragons with Exarch – 134
9 Storm Guardians and 1 Warlock, 2 with Fusion Guns – 108
7 Guardians and 1 Warlock, bright lance support weapon – 123
7 Guardians and 1 Warlock, starcannon support weapon – 123
7 Guardians and 1 warlock, starcannon support weapon – 123
3 War Walkers – 300
1 Wraithlord – 120

FY2004 Prices: $422.00
Eldrad ($10), 3 Seer Councils* ($35 each), 5 blisters of 2 Howling Banshees ($8 each), 1 Howling Banshee Exarch ($8), Wave Serpent ($35), 2 Blisters of 2 Fire Dragons ($8 each), 1 Fire Dragon Exarch ($8), 2 Boxes of 8 Storm Guardians ($25 each), 1 Box of 16 Guardians ($30), 3 Support Weapons ($15 each), 3 Metal War Walkers ($30 each), 1 Metal Wraithlord ($30), Codex Eldar ($15)

FY2013 Prices (Present): $602
Eldrad ($20.75), 3 Seer Councils* ($33 each), 2 Boxes of 6 Howling Banshees ($41.25 each), Wave Serpent ($44.50), 1 Box of 6 Fire Dragons ($41.25 each), 2 Storm Guardian Upgrade Kits ($18 each), 4 Boxes of 8 Guardians w/ Support weapons ($36.25 each), 3 Plastic War Walkers ($30 each), 1 Plastic Wraithlord ($46.25), Codex Eldar ($33)

*The 2004 Seer Council was one farseer and 4 warlocks. The current one is one farseer and 3 warlocks. Both cover the needed figures, but you end up with one more warlock per box set in 2004 than you do now.


42.6% Increase

Chaos Space Marines – 2000 point Army WD266 March 2002
Spoiler:
Abaddon – 240
10 Veteran Chaos Space Marines – 243
Chaos Sorceror – 82
9 Possessed Chaos Space Marines – 270
Chaos Rhino – 58
9 Chaos Space Marines – 178
Chaos Rhino – 63
8 Chaos Space Marines – 125
5 Chaos Space Marines – 80
10 Nurglings – 90
10 Plaguebearers – 150
5 Chaos Space Marine Bikes – 237
6 Noise Marines – 180

FY2004 Prices: $443
1 Abaddon ($15), 6 Boxes of 8 CSM ($25 each), 1 Sorceror ($8), 2 Chaos Rhinos ($25 each), 5 Blisters of 2 Metal Nurglings ($10 each), 1 Box of 10 Metal Plaguebearers ($40), 2 Boxes of 3 CSM Bikers ($40 each), 1 Box of Noise Marine Upgrade Kit ($30), Codex CSM ($20)

FY2013 Prices (Present): $594
1 Abaddon ($22.25), 4 Boxes of 10 CSM ($37.25 each), 1 Sorceror ($13.25), 2 Boxes of 5 Plastic Posessed ($33 each), 2 Chaos Rhinos ($37.25 each), 4 Boxes of 3 Plastic Nurglings ($25 each), 1 Box of 10 Plastic Plaguebearers ($25), 5 CSM Bikers ($15 each), 1 Noise Marine Upgrade Kit ($15), Codex CSM ($50)


34% Increase.

Necron – 1750 point Army WD271 August 2002
Spoiler:
Necron Lord – 190
7 Immortals – 196
10 Necron Warriors – 180
10 Necron Warriors – 180
10 Necron Warriors – 180
10 Necron Warriors – 180
3 Necron Wraiths – 123
6 Scarab Swarms – 96
5 Scarab Swarms – 80
2 Tomb Spyders – 110
1 Monolith

FY2004 Prices: $335
1 Necron Lord ($10), 7 Necron Immortals ($8 each), 4 Boxes of 12 Warriors with 3 Scarab Swarms ($30 each), 3 Wraiths ($13 each), 2 Tomb Spyders ($20 each), 1 Monolith ($50), Codex Necron ($20)
FY2013 Prices (Present): $439
1 Necron Lord ($16), 2 Boxes of 5 Plastic Immortals ($33), 4 Boxes of 12 Warriors with 3 Scarab Swarms ($36.25 each), 1 Box of 3 Plastic Necron Wraiths ($47), 2 Tomb Spyders ($33 each), 1 Monolith ($66), Codex Necron ($33)


31% Increase

So - even if you like to think that these goods should be pegged to a CPI type index - the price increases have been over and above the rate of inflation, generally at twice the rate - though sometimes as much as 3 times the rate of inflation. I'll have to dig back through my files to see if I can find the spreadsheets for the Orks, Tyranid and Dark Eldar as well - but those were actually comparable to these if my memory serves me correctly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/09 15:44:27


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Sean: Your numbers are meaningless as you haven't factored in regional minimum wage rates. You'll find that once you factor those in the prices have, as Kingsley is quick to tell us all, gone down, often by over 150%. In the case of that Eldar army if you buy it in Japan on the second Tuesday of every month GW actually give you money. Pretty sweet deal actually.

nkelsch wrote:
The trick is to take suitcases which fit in each other, so you go there with 1 and come back with 2.


That's a really interesting idea. Never thought of that.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/04/09 15:18:17


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





 Sean_OBrien wrote:
Army Prices then and Now...

Just a handful of them that I repriced this morning to reflect current prices. One of them is illegal now for certain (CSM with daemons) - but the rest should still be legal lists IIRC. The actual points values will have changed of course, but this should illustrate on the larger scale how prices have uniformly increased across the board even though you might have one thing which hasn't gone up much (or possibly even dropped in the case of the Plaguebearers). Just a point of reference - the rate of inflation between 2004 and now is 22.9% ($100 in 2004 would be $122.90 now). While I don't think inflation should apply to non-essential goods, and generally does not in every other case...some people like to use that argument to justify the price hikes.


Cool stuff, but you don't seem to have considered that a lot of old armies relied on blisters for Sergeants, special and heavy weapons, etc. whereas these options are now easily available in plastic. Back in the day it was not uncommon for a basic Space Marine squad to incorporate three different metal models-- one for the Sergeant, one for the special weapon, and one for the heavy weapon-- all of which were purchased in individual blisters. Much of the value of the more recent plastic kit updates has been that they eliminate some of the need to buy these extra kits in order to field the squads you want.

Regardless, I am glad to see people going out there and doing comparisons! Also, where are you getting those prices from? They seem different from the ones I've been pulling from the web archive of GW's online store.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/09 16:03:58


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Indiana

Personally while I may not like some of GW's business practices, it is not enough to get me to stop buying their product, which as far as I am concerned is still solid.

Are the prices more expensive than I would like? Sure but so is food, gas, rent, workout videos etc. As long as I am getting my value out of what I buy I see no problem with the price. Now if you don't think you will get your value out of it then why would you buy it?

Also, as far as adult hobbies go I really don't see a problem with the price, as other people have said compared to other adult hobbies it really is not that bad.

If it was cheaper would I be able to buy more of it? Probably but at the same time it adds value to every piece I have. I have found that I have too much of the stuff and need to reduce the numbers because it is getting in the way of my ability to paint and enjoy it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/09 17:02:19


People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer

My Deathwatch army project thread  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Leth wrote:
workout videos


The other stuff are essential items. They are tied in directly to the CPI due to all the related supply/demand issues and production costs. Workout videos however are not - they are an extra and as such, you can buy a new workout video today for effectively the same price as you could 20 years ago.

http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Pilates-Technique-Complete-Workout/dp/B000069YWP/ref=sr_1_4?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1365527402&sr=1-4&keywords=pilates

http://web.archive.org/web/20040717232050/http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000069YWP?v=glance

(Not 20 years...but linking to those prices is more difficult in the grand scheme of things...still 0% increase in 9 years time...).
   
Made in us
Wraith






Here's the comparison I did for my Space Marines:

Spoiler:

-Terminator Captain (Lysander, but he didn't have a model then so I'll just substitute a generic Termie Captain).
2004 Price: $12.00 USD. 2012 Price: $19.25 USD

-Chaplain
2004 Price: $8 USD 2012 Price: $15 USD

-1 Terminator Squad
2004 Price: $30 USD. 2012 Price: $50 USD

-1 Veteran Squad (used a Tactical Squad Box)
-2 Tactical Squads (1 with Missile and Flamer, 1 with Plasma Gun and Lascannon. Used to have to purchase Plasma Gun seperately, still have to purchase Lascannon Seperately).
2004 Price: $30/box of Marines. $9.00 for two Marines with Special Weapons. $8.00 for Lascannon Marine. Total: $107.00.

2012 Price: $37.25/box of Marines. No longer need separate special weapon marines (IIRC). Still need separate Lascannon Marine who is $14.00 now. Total: $125.75, and total lot contains two fewer models.

-3 Rhinos
2004 Price: $75.00. 2012 Price: $111.75

-2 Boxes of Assault Marines
2004 Price: $50.00 2012 Price: $66.00

-1 Predator
2004: $35.00 2012: $57.75

-1 Whirlwind
same as Predator, IIRC. Interestingly, it's not in the 2004 catalog, but it is currently the same price as a Predator.


-1 Land Raider
2004 Price: $50.00 2012 Price: $74.25

TOTAL:
2004 Price: $402.00
Adjusted for Inflation (2012 Dollars, according to the US Bureau of Labor and Statistics): $488.60

2012 Actual Price: $577.50


Though double checking, I missed a couple things; the old Whirlwind was actually $40, and the box of Terminators didn't include an assault cannon terminator, which is an additional $10. Also when I did this originally, I adjusted 2004 prices for inflation to 2012, below I'll adjust it for 2013.


The 2004 total price, adding in the Assault Cannon Terminator and the extra 5 bucks for the Whirlwind is $417.00, which adjusted for inflation should be $512.51 in 2013 according to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, so the 2013 price is still something like 13% more expensive than it should be, and the price has still increased beyond inflation. Unless my math is incorrect, which is entirely possible. Also, the 2012/2013 list technically includes three fewer miniatures than the 2004 list, due to not needing to buy separate special weapons Marines. If you bitz order a single Plasma Gun and Terminator Assault Cannon for the 2004 list, it's $6 instead of $19 for the assault weapon Marine blister and Assault Cannon Terminator, dropping the price back down to $404, which is $496.53 in 2013, so $577.50 is an extra ~16% tacked on. Not as extreme as the above examples, but still above inflation.


2004 Prices come from here: http://www.solegends.com/citcat2004/P0268-02.htm
2013 Prices come from the GW site.
Inflation calculator here: http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2013/04/09 17:38:39


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Kingsley wrote:


Cool stuff, but you don't seem to have considered that a lot of old armies relied on blisters for Sergeants, special and heavy weapons, etc. whereas these options are now easily available in plastic. Back in the day it was not uncommon for a basic Space Marine squad to incorporate three different metal models-- one for the Sergeant, one for the special weapon, and one for the heavy weapon-- all of which were purchased in individual blisters. Much of the value of the more recent plastic kit updates has been that they eliminate some of the need to buy these extra kits in order to field the squads you want.

Regardless, I am glad to see people going out there and doing comparisons! Also, where are you getting those prices from? They seem different from the ones I've been pulling from the web archive of GW's online store.


The metal figures aren't nearly as important as you might think. Most the functionality of basic sergeants and what not existed in the plastic kits back then. You also had the bits service which allowed you to order a single arm with a plasma pistol as opposed to buying a $10 figure (so you might spend an extra $15-20 on bits for all your special weapons). There are some that are worse - orks for example were designed to entail a fair amount of kitbashing at the time as they didn't even have kits or figures for a lot of their core army units. Harder to make an apples to apples comparison there. However with things like Space Marines - you could take those extra bits...you didn't have to by any means.

In terms of doing the number crunching - I have been for a very long time, as have others. Looking at their products as parts of the whole is the only way that you can realistically see how their prices move. From year to year, they might decide to increase all troops by 10% or all vehicles by 10%. However over the course of many years - you end up with the whole of their catalog being increased by 30-50%. Each year the new prices come out - you will have the white knights ride in claiming that they only increased a small portion of the SKUs by the large percentage for that years price hike. The problem of course is that the year before they increased a different portion and next year they will increase a different portion. Looking at prices - this year will probably be like 2004's price hike all over again. Big and everywhere.

Regarding the prices themselves...those are FY2004 prices. That means they are from after July of 2003 and before June of 2004. Most of the links that you have posted have come from FY2005...after July of 2004. That year saw a large price hike at the end of FY2004 (no doubt GW was watching their sales start to slide and figured that higher prices would be a great way to stop that from happening...didn't work so well). It ended up being between 10-25% across the board - so, yes...the numbers you are looking at are probably different...but then again, they wouldn't be FY2004 prices so they should be different.
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

If you bought SMs in 1988-ish the plastic box was £10 and contained 30 models including a variety of special and support weapons. I can't remember how much the metal figures cost at the time.

The Tactical Box with 10 figures now costs £23.00.

So we have gone from about 28p a figure to about 1.90 a figure in 25 years, which is a 678% increase. (I have taken VAT out of the reckoning.)

According to the Bank of England inflation calculator, the figures would cost 64p each now, due to inflation, so they are 290% more expensive than they "should be".

On the plus side, the detail and poseability of the models has increased a lot.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I would recommend if you are going to get into a table top game, you do so at a FLGS, rather than a GW store. This will allow you to play GW games as well as any other game should you decide things in one game fit you taste more than another game.

As far as GW, here are the infractions that have committed which make me roll my eyes:

1) Doing away with their own forums because of too much negative feedback.
2) Not allowing online stores to sell GW product unless they have an actual store.
3) No site can use GW images for the purposes of selling product other than GW.
4) No international sales
5) Emphasing 500 points or less at GW stores (no longer in effect)
6) GW employees being extremely pushy
7) Never having sales
8) No information about anything until it is released
9) GW online only items
10) Finecaste
11) Boxes of models not containing all the parts needed to make all the models in the rule book (CSM terminators)
12) Annual price increase
13) 6th edition 40K being "beer and popcorn" game
14) CSM not having a reasonable codex sense 3.5
15) Constant reshuffling of units as to what is good and bad
16) Annual price increase
17) Legal IP trolls
18) Shutting down bits
19) Rumored no gaming in GW stores
20) Did I mention the annual price increase?

CSM Undivided
CSM Khorne 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider





Seattle,WA

Mmm. Disagree with number 1. Do you remember the GW forums? Endless threads of kiddie babbling - probably couldn't pay mods enough to wade through all that.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Swan-of-War wrote:
Mmm. Disagree with number 1. Do you remember the GW forums? Endless threads of kiddie babbling - probably couldn't pay mods enough to wade through all that.

I also remember it being one of the worst forums due to the structure and that fact that nothing was categorized. The GW forums are no worse than the WoW ones or other popular game forums.

CSM Undivided
CSM Khorne 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Southampton

Swan-of-War wrote:
Mmm. Disagree with number 1. Do you remember the GW forums? Endless threads of kiddie babbling - probably couldn't pay mods enough to wade through all that.


Weren't the Mods volunteers?

   
Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

In interface on their old forums was ghastly. And they had a lot of silly rules that boiled down to not criticising them for anything (or mentioning Squats). Also you had to be careful what rules you wrote about, writing up any stats wasn't allowed even moreso than here, I think there were rules against linking to other sites and the forum layout didn't allow for pictures to be posted so that meant you couldn't display your work.

All that meant they wasn't a lot to talk about other than squeeing over new models and asking very generic advice. Given their current refusal to reveal any future product infromation, if they had the forums now they would probably have to make a rule saying you can't speculate on future releases, just in case people started repeating accurate rumours from elsewhere. And telling people not to talk about your product on your own forums would be the dumbest thing ever.

GW closed their forums because they were rubbish and full of childish bickering. That, and they can't completely control what people think and say all the time, so it's best to pull the plug on such an outlet.
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Swan-of-War wrote:
Mmm. Disagree with number 1. Do you remember the GW forums? Endless threads of kiddie babbling - probably couldn't pay mods enough to wade through all that.

Insufficient moderation was one of the problems. But they weren't all bad... While the general discussion sections were a little tedious, the games development board had some really good discussion, up until it started gradually turning into continual ranting about issues not being addressed and nobody from GW ever responding. The Devs would wander in every couple of weeks, cherry pick a couple of posts to respond to and then be on their merry way, and so people felt that they just weren't being listened to.

But yeah, the forum software was ghastly as well, and certainly did nothing positive for its image.

 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 Flashman wrote:
Swan-of-War wrote:
Mmm. Disagree with number 1. Do you remember the GW forums? Endless threads of kiddie babbling - probably couldn't pay mods enough to wade through all that.


Weren't the Mods volunteers?


Yes, some very good ones, too.

3) No site can use GW images for the purposes of selling product other than GW.
Nothing wrong with that, the images are GW copyright. If people want to advertise some other product associated with a GW produce they can take a phot for themselves.

13) 6th edition 40K being "beer and popcorn" game
40K has always been a beer and popcorn game. The fundamentals haven't changed since 3rd edition. If anything, 6th edition is more complex than 5th, having re-introduced overwatch.

18) Shutting down bits
I think that was a sound business decision, especially as they were preparing to move to Finecast.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






@KK - Number 3 actually refers to using GW images to sell GW products...not products other than GW products. I am scratching my head trying to think of another company that does that, as most companies have no problem with a retailer using 'official' media to sell their products (in fact that is part of the reason companies take the photos).

Granted, that isnt a big issue since retailers a forbidden to sell online anyway (North America at least).
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Kilkrazy wrote:
3) No site can use GW images for the purposes of selling product other than GW.
Nothing wrong with that, the images are GW copyright. If people want to advertise some other product associated with a GW produce they can take a phot for themselves.
I don't think you can even list the GW products, how much they would be and have a cart feature. You have to call the store and get them to take your order over the phone. I also don't think you can take your own photos either. Basically, GW wants their store to be the only store on the internet to order product.
 Kilkrazy wrote:
13) 6th edition 40K being "beer and popcorn" game
40K has always been a beer and popcorn game. The fundamentals haven't changed since 3rd edition. If anything, 6th edition is more complex than 5th, having re-introduced overwatch.
I take my rules clear, concise and logical. Not the crap that GW puts out.
 Kilkrazy wrote:
18) Shutting down bits
I think that was a sound business decision, especially as they were preparing to move to Finecast.
That's just too funny. Really, finecaste? Finecaste is going to produce good bits when they can't even produce good models? Even if GW intends to fill the gap, the current crap on their website is 1) from OOP models for the most part and 2) still doesn't fill most of the gaps in their product line. The only good thing I see is that price isn't astronomical; though I am sure that will change.

CSM Undivided
CSM Khorne 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Barfolomew wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
3) No site can use GW images for the purposes of selling product other than GW.
Nothing wrong with that, the images are GW copyright. If people want to advertise some other product associated with a GW produce they can take a phot for themselves.
I don't think you can even list the GW products, how much they would be and have a cart feature. You have to call the store and get them to take your order over the phone. I also don't think you can take your own photos either. Basically, GW wants their store to be the only store on the internet to order product.

You said that people can't use photos for selling stuff other than GW. Which was what KK said wasn't a problem.

The 'no using pictures of our product to sell our product' rule is indeed batgak crazy.


Finecaste is going to produce good bits when they can't even produce good models?

What? They don't sell 'Fine'cast bits...?

 
   
 
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