Game of thrones season 3 episode 9!? [Spoilers]

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**motyak**

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
tuiman wrote:

Spoiler:

I think the whole scene of the red wedding is so barbaric, even in the game of thrones setting that is generally barbaric anyway. For example if king Rob was slain during a great battle as he leads his people to war would there be such a reaction as to what happened here? Probably not.

The fact is that he and his wife, his bannermen and his own mother were brutally murdered by what were deemed to be there "allies", and most of all at a wedding. Even when jamie lanister was captured, or tyrion or the hound, those that captured them were to give them a fair trial and not outright kill them. So for this to happen would definitely come as a shock. As I said, its not the fact that Rob died, its the manner that it is carried out that makes this episode quite frightning imho.

That's a big part of the point: it's despicable and revolting. Even without the specific traditions and codes of conduct present in the setting it's a sickening act that inspires a burning desire to flay those involved and hang them with their own intestines. Such betrayal is just... blindingly enraging, even in fiction.

Interesting choice of words (I bolded them)

**d-usa**

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
tuiman wrote:

Spoiler:

I think the whole scene of the red wedding is so barbaric, even in the game of thrones setting that is generally barbaric anyway. For example if king Rob was slain during a great battle as he leads his people to war would there be such a reaction as to what happened here? Probably not.

The fact is that he and his wife, his bannermen and his own mother were brutally murdered by what were deemed to be there "allies", and most of all at a wedding. Even when jamie lanister was captured, or tyrion or the hound, those that captured them were to give them a fair trial and not outright kill them. So for this to happen would definitely come as a shock. As I said, its not the fact that Rob died, its the manner that it is carried out that makes this episode quite frightning imho.

That's a big part of the point: it's despicable and revolting. Even without the specific traditions and codes of conduct present in the setting it's a sickening act that inspires a burning desire to flay those involved and hang them with their own intestines. Such betrayal is just... blindingly enraging, even in fiction.

Spoiler:

**Sir Pseudonymous**

motyak wrote:
Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
tuiman wrote:

Spoiler:

I think the whole scene of the red wedding is so barbaric, even in the game of thrones setting that is generally barbaric anyway. For example if king Rob was slain during a great battle as he leads his people to war would there be such a reaction as to what happened here? Probably not.

The fact is that he and his wife, his bannermen and his own mother were brutally murdered by what were deemed to be there "allies", and most of all at a wedding. Even when jamie lanister was captured, or tyrion or the hound, those that captured them were to give them a fair trial and not outright kill them. So for this to happen would definitely come as a shock. As I said, its not the fact that Rob died, its the manner that it is carried out that makes this episode quite frightning imho.

That's a big part of the point: it's despicable and revolting. Even without the specific traditions and codes of conduct present in the setting it's a sickening act that inspires a burning desire to flay those involved and hang them with their own intestines. Such betrayal is just... blindingly enraging, even in fiction.

Interesting choice of words (I bolded them)

I know, right?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

d-usa wrote:
Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
tuiman wrote:

Spoiler:

I think the whole scene of the red wedding is so barbaric, even in the game of thrones setting that is generally barbaric anyway. For example if king Rob was slain during a great battle as he leads his people to war would there be such a reaction as to what happened here? Probably not.

The fact is that he and his wife, his bannermen and his own mother were brutally murdered by what were deemed to be there "allies", and most of all at a wedding. Even when jamie lanister was captured, or tyrion or the hound, those that captured them were to give them a fair trial and not outright kill them. So for this to happen would definitely come as a shock. As I said, its not the fact that Rob died, its the manner that it is carried out that makes this episode quite frightning imho.

That's a big part of the point: it's despicable and revolting. Even without the specific traditions and codes of conduct present in the setting it's a sickening act that inspires a burning desire to flay those involved and hang them with their own intestines. Such betrayal is just... blindingly enraging, even in fiction.

Spoiler:

That was one of the downsides of the episode as well, that it didn't explain the significance of guest right near as much as the books did. They did show the scene where they ate bread and salt, but it didn't drive home how important that gesture really is in the setting of GoT. If I remember the book right, I think that Mama Stark was very affraid that something would happen at the Twins and that Frey would seek revenge on them. She really urged and pushed Robb to try to eat as quickly as possible, knowing that they would never be safe from anything unless they ate and fell under the protection of Guest Right. Without Guest Right Lord Frey could do whatever he wanted, but Guest Right specifically protects you from harm even if you are in the castle of your enemies. The Red Wedding was bad enough, but the fact that it happens while his guests fell under his protection under Guest Right is really what pushes it over the edge for the other houses.

Yeah. It's bad enough from our perspective, but in the context of the setting it's absolutely inconceivable.

**Experiment 626**

d-usa wrote:
Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
tuiman wrote:

Spoiler:

I think the whole scene of the red wedding is so barbaric, even in the game of thrones setting that is generally barbaric anyway. For example if king Rob was slain during a great battle as he leads his people to war would there be such a reaction as to what happened here? Probably not.

The fact is that he and his wife, his bannermen and his own mother were brutally murdered by what were deemed to be there "allies", and most of all at a wedding. Even when jamie lanister was captured, or tyrion or the hound, those that captured them were to give them a fair trial and not outright kill them. So for this to happen would definitely come as a shock. As I said, its not the fact that Rob died, its the manner that it is carried out that makes this episode quite frightning imho.

That's a big part of the point: it's despicable and revolting. Even without the specific traditions and codes of conduct present in the setting it's a sickening act that inspires a burning desire to flay those involved and hang them with their own intestines. Such betrayal is just... blindingly enraging, even in fiction.

Spoiler:

That was one of the downsides of the episode as well, that it didn't explain the significance of guest right near as much as the books did. They did show the scene where they ate bread and salt, but it didn't drive home how important that gesture really is in the setting of GoT. If I remember the book right, I think that Mama Stark was very affraid that something would happen at the Twins and that Frey would seek revenge on them. She really urged and pushed Robb to try to eat as quickly as possible, knowing that they would never be safe from anything unless they ate and fell under the protection of Guest Right. Without Guest Right Lord Frey could do whatever he wanted, but Guest Right specifically protects you from harm even if you are in the castle of your enemies. The Red Wedding was bad enough, but the fact that it happens while his guests fell under his protection under Guest Right is really what pushes it over the edge for the other houses.

Spoiler:

**-Loki-**

tuiman wrote:

Spoiler:

I think the whole scene of the red wedding is so barbaric, even in the game of thrones setting that is generally barbaric anyway. For example if king Rob was slain during a great battle as he leads his people to war would there be such a reaction as to what happened here? Probably not.

The fact is that he and his wife, his bannermen and his own mother were brutally murdered by what were deemed to be there "allies", and most of all at a wedding. Even when jamie lanister was captured, or tyrion or the hound, those that captured them were to give them a fair trial and not outright kill them. So for this to happen would definitely come as a shock. As I said, its not the fact that Rob died, its the manner that it is carried out that makes this episode quite frightning imho.

If you think it was too brutal for even Game of Thrones setting, you need only look into our own past to see the inspiration of the scene.

it was a treacherous, brutal act, and was similarly done by real nobles during medieval times. Does that make our world as bad as Westeros? Probably.

**Compel**

Hmm, I never knew about the 'Black Dinner' - It's a pity wikipedia is so weak on it.

I always imagined it was written as a reverse of the Massacre of Glencoe.

**Ouze**

Why did Roose tip off Catelyn? That part, I didn't get.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Ouze wrote:
Why did Roose tip off Catelyn? That part, I didn't get.

In the book it's because she slits the throat of one of Walder Frey's sons, dunno 'bout the show though.

**Mr Morden**

Ouze wrote:
Why did Roose tip off Catelyn? That part, I didn't get.

Its too late for her to do anything other than beg for her sons life - maybe he was just enjoying himself................

**unmercifulconker**

Yeah Roose likes to mess with people I guess, remember the good laugh we all shared as he told Jaime of his sisters health following the attack of kings landing?

I cannot wait or at least I really hope that someone just crusades through the North smiting the heretics who betrayed their brothers, victory will never taste so sweet. Please Martin, do this for me.

Also found this on reddit, pretty cool song for the red wedding. https://soundcloud.com/paola-bennet/timbers-wind

**Experiment 626**

unmercifulconker wrote:
Yeah Roose likes to mess with people I guess, remember the good laugh we all shared as he told Jaime of his sisters health following the attack of kings landing?

I cannot wait or at least I really hope that someone just crusades through the North smiting the heretics who betrayed their brothers, victory will never taste so sweet. Please Martin, do this for me.

Also found this on reddit, pretty cool song for the red wedding. https://soundcloud.com/paola-bennet/timbers-wind

Spoiler:

**unmercifulconker**

Experiment 626 wrote:
unmercifulconker wrote:
Yeah Roose likes to mess with people I guess, remember the good laugh we all shared as he told Jaime of his sisters health following the attack of kings landing?

I cannot wait or at least I really hope that someone just crusades through the North smiting the heretics who betrayed their brothers, victory will never taste so sweet. Please Martin, do this for me.

Also found this on reddit, pretty cool song for the red wedding. https://soundcloud.com/paola-bennet/timbers-wind

Spoiler:

Well, Arya's working on it!

Spoiler:

**ChocolateGork**

I was all like, YOU OLD BASTARD!

And then i was like "He actually deserved it, that's what happens when you break oaths you gak"

**unmercifulconker**

I actually think Walder Frey needs to suffer the most, out of all the people who hate Robb, he is the one to do something like this, the guy who was lied to about marrying one of his 100 odd daughters? Gawd damn man dont let me down hound get in that hall and

some people up!

House Frey will burn for this, the name Frey shall never be uttered again!

**Mr Morden**

Joffrey is worse............... no redeming features of any kind......at all...ever.

Why should "House" Frey suffer - what would you do to all his womenfolk that makes it right and you not the same - just with a better justifcation

?

**unmercifulconker**

I didnt see or hear any of his daughters trying to stop or warn anyone of the attack. House Frey is more dishonourable. They should pay the price for being dishonourable.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Agreed on purging house Frey. The Stranger will have his due.

**Mr Morden**

unmercifulconker wrote:
I didnt see or hear any of his daughters trying to stop or warn anyone of the attack. House Frey is more dishonourable. They should pay the price for being dishonourable.

Oh dear - does that also extend to children and babes in arms -

**Experiment 626**

Mr Morden wrote:
Joffrey is worse............... no redeming features of any kind......at all...ever.

Why should "House" Frey suffer - what would you do to all his womenfolk that makes it right and you not the same - just with a better justifcation ?

Joffrey's redeeming quality is his sheer stupidity!

He's simply too dumb to ever pull off anything like the Red Wedding.

Walder Frey on the other hand... Hell, just everything about the Freys in general is that they're disgusting, weasel-faced treacherous b*******ds!

**CthuluIsSpy**

Mr Morden wrote:
Joffrey is worse............... no redeming features of any kind......at all...ever.

Why should "House" Frey suffer - what would you do to all his womenfolk that makes it right and you not the same - just with a better justifcation ?

He has one, actually.

Spoiler:

**Compel**

I think all of you folk need to read more between the lines of "House Manderlay's" scenes in 'Dance with Dragons.'

Or, if you're like me... Have a friendly random explain them to you.

Spoiler:

Which is, you know, fair enough. Manderlay are loyal to the Starks. However, it gets better....

Spoiler:

**Hulksmash**

Yeah, the Manderly's are awesome. Pity they aren't likely to get any screen time during the show.

Sidenote:

Rickon is suppose to be with the Manderly's in the books but has there been a single mention of him since the split with Bran? It's been so long since I read any of them.

**djones520**

Hulksmash wrote:
Yeah, the Manderly's are awesome. Pity they aren't likely to get any screen time during the show.

Sidenote:

Rickon is suppose to be with the Manderly's in the books but has there been a single mention of him since the split with Bran? It's been so long since I read any of them.

Book 4/5 gets into that.

Spoiler:

**Hordini**

Here be A Dance with Dragons spoilers:

Spoiler:

**kirsanth**

I want the series to be good like I want the books to be good.

At this point, however, that seems to be based solely on the fact that I have time invested in them.

That is sad, and the author seems to agree.

editing to add:
Parts of it are wonderful.
Like many of the ideas can be well done.

Also note that The Dark Tower is full of good ideas and wonderfully done plans.
The result however. . .

**unmercifulconker**

There is an article which, I apologise for as I cant remember which site I seen it but the creators of the show reckon the show is nearly at half way point. Book readers reckon this might take us to the 5/6 book?

I was devestated by this news but someone pointed out it would be stupid to go to the end when some of the actors would not look their age.

Ill start reading the past books soon anyway to catch up and then when the show finishes....

**Breotan**

unmercifulconker wrote:
I was devestated by this news but someone pointed out it would be stupid to go to the end when some of the actors would not look their age.

Given how frequently characters in this show die, I wouldn't think that would be a problem.

**djones520**

Well... the good part about it all, is not counting Sanda, they really haven't put anyone in an age group. In the books we knew how old all the characters are, but they made sure we didn't have to worry about that with the series.

Unles you actually buy that Jon Snow and Rob Stark were 15 when they ended up where they are now.

**Palindrome**

djones520 wrote:

Unles you actually buy that Jon Snow and Rob Stark were 15 when they ended up where they are now.

Within the context of the setting that is perfectly plausible, life is a lot shorter afterall so people are classed as adults earlier, just like we were in the medieval period, and both John and Robb gained their positions due to unexpected events.

**djones520**

Palindrome wrote:
djones520 wrote:

Unles you actually buy that Jon Snow and Rob Stark were 15 when they ended up where they are now.

Within the context of the setting that is perfectly plausible, life is a lot shorter afterall so people are classed as adults earlier, just like we were in the medieval period, and both John and Robb gained their positions due to unexpected events.

I mean in the show. In the books, totally. But the show, there was no way they were representing 14 year olds at the very beginning. Daenarys as well. She was 13/14 at the very start of the story.