Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added]

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**tomjoad**

I think with Savant Lock, the designers are trying to get us to use the fact that fliers can leave the field more. Likely, they thought fliers would spend one or two turn on the board, fly off, and the come back for a turn. In practice, though, there is rarely a reason to actually leave combat airspace, so they are trying to give us a reason instead of admitting that the game just doesn't work how they thought it might.

**Godless-Mimicry**

It definitely makes the Hunter a much better choice, as it essentially guarantees the target flyer will not be bothering you next turn. In fact in some cases you may be better off missing.

I wonder however, does it get Savant Lock against flyers only, or any target?

**HisDivineShadow**

Nocturnus wrote:
HisDivineShadow wrote:
Nocturnus wrote:
HisDivineShadow wrote:
It may weighing in late, but that Savant lock sounds incredibly broken. Even misses give you a chance to hit ? How is that balanced?

It's how they "justify" the price of the new kit
All joking aside, I agree:it seems very powerful. My Heldrake just shed a few tears...

So by that logic, are flyers getting price drops? Yay!

Oh wait....this GW.

I was referring to the price $$$$.....

So was i

**Bulldogging**

azreal13 wrote:
Puscifer wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Mr.Omega wrote:
The Raven guard chapter tactic let's a SM Rhino Rush be 6" from the opposing board edge or on their deployment line with 4+ cover at the end of turn 1. Or just outflank them if needed.

Seriously, they're gonna be my favs if thats how they run. That means any army will have about one turn before you focus fire into any part of their army with massed bolters or whatever. Might even mean assault squads in Rhinos or with JP's become decent.

Not really, because vehicles don't benefit from Chapter Tactics unless otherwise stated, and in the case of the Raven Guard, it isn't otherwise stated.

Page 41: Units give their Designated Transports the rule Scout as long as they're inside of them.

So far, the Raven Guard have my favourite set of CT.

Outflank a couple of Tactical squads in Rhino or Razorback, accompanied by Scouts in a LSS if your tastes allow it... Disembark and point click an annoying unit into oblivion.

For the RG, it's all about distraction and subterfuge. Tempt an opponent with one unit and then gang up on them 2 or 3 vs 1.

Are there any Raven Guard shoulder pads available from GW or FW?

No pads, but FW do an A4 sheet of decals and an accessory set of bolters, helms, chests and backpacks. As well as Rhino and LR doors.

GW did do some decals too, but they weren't as nice as the FW ones (all printed on one backing sheet, the FW are all separate, the film is thinner on the GW ones though, so if you want to just slap them on they will fit curves better)

Actually the Raven Guard kit comes with pads too. For what it's worth.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/RAVEN_GUARD_SPACE_MARINES_UPGRADE_PACK.html

**Lobokai**

I dunno about you guys, but I think Khan, with an allied DA bike Libby+ Black Knights and as many WS bikes as you can take, will make a brutal bike force.

**Bulldogging**

Lobukia wrote:
I dunno about you guys, but I think Khan, with an allied DA bike Libby+ Black Knights and as many WS bikes as you can take, will make a brutal bike force.

Worst case, it will look cool as gak.

**Ascalam**

Whole bike armies always do

**Lobokai**

Bulldogging wrote:
Lobukia wrote:
I dunno about you guys, but I think Khan, with an allied DA bike Libby+ Black Knights and as many WS bikes as you can take, will make a brutal bike force.

Worst case, it will look cool as gak.

I'm the guy that built/bought a giant bike force that is neither DA nor WS... So my repurposed bikes can be whatever. For larger games, I think I'll drop in a BT blob or two. That much gothic coolness will at least die cool.

**Godless-Mimicry**

Lobukia wrote:
I dunno about you guys, but I think Khan, with an allied DA bike Libby+ Black Knights and as many WS bikes as you can take, will make a brutal bike force.

Yeah it's something I intend to try out as well. Pity that the Dev Banner doesn't work on the White Scars, but I was thinking about adding a Dark Shroud in there as it stacks nicely with the White Scars CT.

**Ascalam**

I still want to do a Wazdakka biker army vs Whitscars/DA apoc game some day. I think it would look awesome on a huge battlefield.

**Lobokai**

They said in the 40k podcast that Calgar's GoW power was the same +use a chapter tactic a second time... is that how someone else understood it?

Also, I was a little disappointed for the BT guys that the sword of the high marshals wasn't kicked up to AP2... it/he needed that

**Andy089**

A pity that not everything got IWND for IH, TFCs would have been really mean.
I was worried that centurions will have to replace some of my guys but since they also don't get IWND it doesn't really matter. Seems like I'll be saving quite some money this time, as I also don't really like the IH hands edition and actually like the usual cover best.

**Orock**

Ugh just had a thought. Lysander, with 10 TH/SS termies, with a chapter master with that eternal warrior storm shield (if its true) in termie armor with thunder hammer and storm shield, deep striking and wreckin crap. That is 6 wounds, 3 from Lysander, 3 from the chapter master, that do not remove a model from your group. essentially instead of having 12 terminators in your group, you have 18 worth of wounds, which is awesome because I tend to lose about 6 out of 10 before they get to smack a target. Also that's pretty dang deathstarr-y

**Kingsley**

Andy089 wrote:
A pity that not everything got IWND for IH, TFCs would have been really mean.
I was worried that centurions will have to replace some of my guys but since they also don't get IWND it doesn't really matter. Seems like I'll be saving quite some money this time, as I also don't really like the IH hands edition and actually like the usual cover best.

To be fair, TFCs do get FNP (6+), which will be quite annoying.

**Vain**

Orock wrote:
Ugh just had a thought. Lysander, with 10 TH/SS termies, with a chapter master with that eternal warrior storm shield (if its true) in termie armor with thunder hammer and storm shield, deep striking and wreckin crap. That is 6 wounds, 3 from Lysander, 3 from the chapter master, that do not remove a model from your group. essentially instead of having 12 terminators in your group, you have 18 worth of wounds, which is awesome because I tend to lose about 6 out of 10 before they get to smack a target. Also that's pretty dang deathstarr-y

Edit: Misunderstood, yes indeed 6 wounds that do not remove a model.

Also you are looking at 430-450ish for the 2 HQs and then 400-450 for the Hammernators (I believe they have gone up 5 points or somesuch) so you are looking at 900 points for 12 models.
I'll take you on with those numbers and just hose you down and hope those Armour save 1s turn up enough as you slog across the field from your deepstrike.

**jose kantor**

That's also a silly amount of points for a unit. All be it it is going to either draw a lot of fire or be ignored. If you go up against a list that can ignore it then you are hosed.

**Shadox**

Could anyone give a rundown of the Warlord Traits?

**Vain**

Shadox wrote:
Could anyone give a rundown of the Warlord Traits?

1) Go to first page.
2) Click the first spoiler tag in the post.
3) Success!

**Puscifer**

Vain wrote:
Orock wrote:
Ugh just had a thought. Lysander, with 10 TH/SS termies, with a chapter master with that eternal warrior storm shield (if its true) in termie armor with thunder hammer and storm shield, deep striking and wreckin crap. That is 6 wounds, 3 from Lysander, 3 from the chapter master, that do not remove a model from your group. essentially instead of having 12 terminators in your group, you have 18 worth of wounds, which is awesome because I tend to lose about 6 out of 10 before they get to smack a target. Also that's pretty dang deathstarr-y

Edit: Misunderstood, yes indeed 6 wounds that do not remove a model.

Also you are looking at 430-450ish for the 2 HQs and then 400-450 for the Hammernators (I believe they have gone up 5 points or somesuch) so you are looking at 900 points for 12 models.
I'll take you on with those numbers and just hose you down and hope those Armour save 1s turn up enough as you slog across the field from your deepstrike.

Yeah it isn't a great tactic to go with one massive squad of Hammernators anymore.

If anything, this new codex is going to make Marine players think a lot more tactically as a lot of armies can just point click kill an entire MEQ or even TEQ unit without a lot of effort - Tau, Eldar and CSM in particular are good at this.

Ambush tactics, ganging up on enemy squads and the tactical removal of enemy heavy assets - MC in particular - are going to be a lot more common.

I just seems to me that an MEQ army is a very fragile, if not most fragile, army in 40k.

Lack of numbers and the fact a 3+ save isn't as good as it once was hurts this army.

**Shadox**

Vain wrote:
Shadox wrote:
Could anyone give a rundown of the Warlord Traits?

1) Go to first page.
2) Click the first spoiler tag in the post.
3) Success!

Ah thank you! I didn't realize that the opening post was already updated

**Vain**

No harshness Shadox, someone did all of Zion's updates so it pretty awesome.

**MajorWesJanson**

The Space Marine Strike Force (replacing the battleforce it appears) seems to consist of the following:
1x Multipart Captain
1x 5-man Command Squad
2x 10-man Tactical Squads (I assume the new one)
1x 5-man Scout Squad (sniper scouts?)
1x 5-man Assault Squad
1x Venerable Dreadnought
1x Drop Pod
1x Razorback

39 models retail of $320 for $225, so about 30% off.

**Deadshot**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
The Space Marine Strike Force (replacing the battleforce it appears) seems to consist of the following:
1x Multipart Captain
1x 5-man Command Squad
2x 10-man Tactical Squads (I assume the new one)
1x 5-man Scout Squad (sniper scouts?)
1x 5-man Assault Squad
1x Venerable Dreadnought
1x Drop Pod
1x Razorback

39 models retail of $320 for $225, so about 30% off.

Replacing the BF? I damn well hope not. That's too much for savings. Even with 30% off the price is still too high for a booster pack style box. Are you sure this isn't just a one click bundle?

**Anpu42**

Deadshot wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
The Space Marine Strike Force (replacing the battleforce it appears) seems to consist of the following:
1x Multipart Captain
1x 5-man Command Squad
2x 10-man Tactical Squads (I assume the new one)
1x 5-man Scout Squad (sniper scouts?)
1x 5-man Assault Squad
1x Venerable Dreadnought
1x Drop Pod
1x Razorback

39 models retail of $320 for $225, so about 30% off.

Replacing the BF? I damn well hope not. That's too much for savings. Even with 30% off the price is still too high for a booster pack style box. Are you sure this isn't just a one click bundle?

It does nothing form, it does not have any Centurians or the Hunter/Stalker in it.

**SickSix**

I don't see them replacing a battleforce with something that costs twice as much.

**Deadshot**

I don't understand what you're saying.

Edit, refering to Anpu42.

**gmaleron**

Chapter Tactics

Successor Chapters - You use whatever chapter tactics of your parent chapter is. The ONLY Exception is the Black Templar.

Homebrew - You can pick any tactic you want and use the Special Characters of that chapter. Those characters have to use the same Chapter Tactics as the same Chapter their from.

Allies - "A Space Marine Detachment that has one set of Chapter Tactics MAY ally with another Space Marine Detachment with a different set of Chapter Tactics, Ultramarines and Raven Guard for example. For purposes of the Allies rules these allies are treated as being from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers. Note that you may field models from two different chapters that have the same Chapter Tactics, such as Ultramariens and Praetors of Orpheus in the same detachment. These chapters are so closely affiliated that they count as a single army on the battlefield."

So I am somewhat confused by this (gotta love working from midnight till eight in the morning) but can someone clarify if I am understanding this correctly?

-If I take Pedro Kantor to make Sternguard scoring does that mean I HAVE to use the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactic?
-If I ally Salamanders to this army does that mean that I can utilize both chapter tactics for my entire army? Or do I have to pick and choose one for my entire army or do both seperate forces use their own rule?

**SickSix**

gmaleron wrote:
Chapter Tactics

Successor Chapters - You use whatever chapter tactics of your parent chapter is. The ONLY Exception is the Black Templar.

Homebrew - You can pick any tactic you want and use the Special Characters of that chapter. Those characters have to use the same Chapter Tactics as the same Chapter their from.

Allies - "A Space Marine Detachment that has one set of Chapter Tactics MAY ally with another Space Marine Detachment with a different set of Chapter Tactics, Ultramarines and Raven Guard for example. For purposes of the Allies rules these allies are treated as being from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers. Note that you may field models from two different chapters that have the same Chapter Tactics, such as Ultramariens and Praetors of Orpheus in the same detachment. These chapters are so closely affiliated that they count as a single army on the battlefield."

If you take Pedro you have to take the IF CT. If you ally Sallies only the allied detachment gets to use Sallies CT.

So I am somewhat confused by this (gotta love working from midnight till eight in the morning) but can someone clarify if I am understanding this correctly?

-If I take Pedro Kantor to make Sternguard scoring does that mean I HAVE to use the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactic?
-If I ally Salamanders to this army does that mean that I can utilize both chapter tactics for my entire army? Or do I have to pick and choose one for my entire army or do both seperate forces use their own rule?

If you take Pedro you have to take the IF CT. If you ally Sallies only the allied detachment gets to use Sallies CT.

**Lansirill**

gmaleron wrote:

Spoiler:

Chapter Tactics

Successor Chapters - You use whatever chapter tactics of your parent chapter is. The ONLY Exception is the Black Templar.

Homebrew - You can pick any tactic you want and use the Special Characters of that chapter. Those characters have to use the same Chapter Tactics as the same Chapter their from.

Allies - "A Space Marine Detachment that has one set of Chapter Tactics MAY ally with another Space Marine Detachment with a different set of Chapter Tactics, Ultramarines and Raven Guard for example. For purposes of the Allies rules these allies are treated as being from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers. Note that you may field models from two different chapters that have the same Chapter Tactics, such as Ultramariens and Praetors of Orpheus in the same detachment. These chapters are so closely affiliated that they count as a single army on the battlefield."

So I am somewhat confused by this (gotta love working from midnight till eight in the morning) but can someone clarify if I am understanding this correctly?

-If I take Pedro Kantor to make Sternguard scoring does that mean I HAVE to use the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactic?
-If I ally Salamanders to this army does that mean that I can utilize both chapter tactics for my entire army? Or do I have to pick and choose one for my entire army or do both seperate forces use their own rule?

Pedro: That's what it sounds like. You can only get Pedro if you choose the IF CT.
Sally Seashell: It depends on how they word things, but it sounds like only the units from the IF detachment get the IF CT, while only the units from the Sally detachment get the Sally CT.

**gmaleron**

Chapter Master Pedro Kantor:
- +1 Attack
- Oath of Rynn: If Chapter Master Kantor is your Warlord all models in Crimson Fist detachments have the Preferred Enemy (Orks) Special Rule. Furthermore, all such models within 12" of Kantor have +1 Attack while he lives. This bonus does not affector Kantor, and is not cimulative with the similar bonuse that the Chapter Banner gives.
- Still has Hold the Line: Crimson Fist Sternguard Veterans are scoring
- Same Wargear and points
- Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve

Sorry another noob question but based on the wording does this mean that I have to do a Crimson Fist Chapter?! Or did the OP make a mistake and anyone that takes Pedro (even as proxy) will allow it?