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I'm in an all-day virtual training call. So I have even more time than usual.

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
so your mob of Sisters can go punch out Thunderhammer Terminators.

Maybe those termies should have thought about it before they went ahead and committed heresy.

Okay, that made me chuckle.

In all seriousness, I liked being able to stack faith powers and do miraculous things.

There was nothing more cinematic than some big, badass unit to come screaming into my lines and yet a humble squad of sisters of battle held the line against them for a two or three phases (with invuls and +strength), whittling them down until they finally were cut down 'just in time' to be gunned down by the rest of the army.

Picking and choosing when to use faith was as important as using them.

 pretre wrote:
I'm in an all-day virtual training call. So I have even more time than usual.

I'm between classes at the local community college when I'm on here.

 Psienesis wrote:
The problem with these sorts of threads is all the awesome ideas that people come up with... and then the book comes out.

Hope is, as they say, the first step on the road to disappointment.

Well, unless we do a fandex (I've been tinkering with one for a while, which is where my wishlist ideas are coming from; plus there are a few out there already).

More wishlisty!

Celestians with 2+ artificer armor, any of them can take a storm bolter or a power weapon -- a bit like Space Marine Honor Guard.

Crusaders as squads -- with Stubborn to be ultimate tarpit.

Arco-Flagellants as squads -- using Beast rules, not infantry, so they're scary fast, scuttling inhumanly over the ground.....

Alternative ammo choices for Exorcist: frag, skyfire, long-range/low power, etc.

Sisters Bikes -- but they use cavalry rules, not Bike rules, and therefore don't get +1 to Toughness: T4 is not a Sisters thing, it's a defining weakness of the army that shouldn't go away.

Canoness "doctrines" (say, 30 points?) that can make Dominions, Seraphim, or Retributors troops (no Elites as troops, though; that seems.... off).

How about instead of making Celestians Troops they become Scoring instead?

SisterSydney wrote:As for Frateris of various kinds, I'd like to see them contribute Faith Points to the army: They can't use Acts of Faith themselves, they lack the Sisters' focus, but their raw passion boosts the gestalt psychic field from which the Sisters draw the power for their Acts.

You heretic.

"No Adepta Sororitas character will ever have psychic powers of any sort."
- Inquisitor RPG

The idea to have allied zealots influence the pool of Faith Points is nice in principle, but I think it doesn't reflect the fluff very well. The Sisters focus mostly on their squad (likely because of their lifestyle), and assuming that GW fixes FP generation scaling with army size, the general "vastness" of the army should already affect the faith of the crusaders within regardless of who they're rolling out with.

ClockworkZion wrote:Don't forget that we have stuff to steal from the Guard too! Inferno Cannon and Melta Cannon both seem like nice light tank options.

It's not stealing when it was ours all along! Filthy Mechanicus liars...

pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:Redemptionists could use Faith....maybe giving them Shield of Faith as a Faith Power?

That's way too weak for a faith point. 6++ for a FP? Yuck.

How about just giving zealots the Shield of Faith by default, and call it a day?
I don't think they should use SoB Acts of Faith because those are a result of a very intense and militant and supersecret training that zealots just don't have. Frateris Militia isn't "professional" enough - but their zeal could still be sufficient to just have them be crazy and focused enough to ignore injuries like the Sisters do.

SisterSydney wrote:Crusaders as squads -- with Stubborn to be ultimate tarpit.

Let's just get rid of them and steal their shields and swords for Scoring Celestians.

SisterSydney wrote:Sisters Bikes

Why do I have to think of the "Bloody Canoness" from Saint's Row now?

Bah, I'm split on this one. On one hand, Sisters on bikes sounds "groovy", but on the other it also sounds like Spess Mehreens. Our skirmishers are Seraphim. Air > Ground
And I still like that idea of Sisters rather using modded Tauros jeeps, like in the Hammer & Anvil novel.

Then again ...

Man, I actually played that game in, like, 1989.

How about Sisters on Mechanical Destriers (like the one the engineer dude has from Fantasy)?



Give them Storm Bolters and Shields with option to swap to Lances or something.

 Lynata wrote:

SisterSydney wrote:As for Frateris of various kinds, I'd like to see them contribute Faith Points to the army: They can't use Acts of Faith themselves, they lack the Sisters' focus, but their raw passion boosts the gestalt psychic field from which the Sisters draw the power for their Acts.

You heretic.

"No Adepta Sororitas character will ever have psychic powers of any sort."
- Inquisitor RPG

The Imperium can say Acts of Faith are not a psychic effect, and GW can use different rules for them, but c'mon, what else are they? (Interesting: If Sisters are gestalt psykers, their immunity to daemonic corruption & Perils of the Warp means they are the closest humanity has ever gotten to the mature race of stable psykers the Emperor is supposed to have been working for.)

 Lynata wrote:

SisterSydney wrote:Sisters Bikes

Why do I have to think of the "Bloody Canoness" from Saint's Row now?

Bah, I'm split on this one. On one hand, Sisters on bikes sounds "groovy", but on the other it also sounds like Spess Mehreens. ....

That's why I'm thinking bikes that use Cavalry rules, precisely so they're more agile and more fragile -- more feminine, even -- than their Marine counterparts.

 SisterSydney wrote:
The Imperium can say Acts of Faith are not a psychic effect, and GW can use different rules for them, but c'mon, what else are they?

They are faith. Faith moves mountains. Faith is willpower manifest. Mind over matter. It doesn't have to be psychic.

 SisterSydney wrote:
The Imperium can say Acts of Faith are not a psychic effect, and GW can use different rules for them, but c'mon, what else are they?

Their minds pushing their bodies to great feats. Think "mother lifting car off of her baby" type stuff.

I used to have the same assumption about it, actually, but then I had the relevant studio material pointed out to me, and now I'm quite that they're really not harnessing psychic power. They're just that badass.

It is the God-Emperor of Mankind working through them, the most faithful and devoted of His servants.

Citation needed.

Divine Magic theory.

 Psienesis wrote:
It is the God-Emperor of Mankind working through them, the most faithful and devoted of His servants.

I'm pretty sure that the Sisters are an unreliable source.

In the 2e and 5e codexes, it says something along the lines of their Acts only being seemingly miraculous, which implies that they're not actually miracles. They just look that way. But yes, this doesn't change that they are still His most faithful servants. And in fact, that is exactly why they can do that stuff, so the principle is still kinda the same.

But if you like the idea of Big E himself lending the Sisters a helping hand (which I certainly do), it's very easy to look at Celestine in that way...

Of course, there's the problem of the HH books showing what looks like Divine Magic as well, as well as Celestine and the other saints (Sabbat in Abnett's books) doing way crazy crap. I like that we don't know for sure what it is.

 Psienesis wrote:
It is the God-Emperor of Mankind working through them, the most faithful and devoted of His servants.

And the God-Emperor of Mankind is.... wait for it... a psyker!

SisterSydney wrote:The Imperium can say Acts of Faith are not a psychic effect, and GW can use different rules for them, but c'mon, what else are they?

"For millennia, the Sisters have practiced their unique method of war, combining combat doctrine and prayer which enables them to accomplish feats upon the battlefield that appear miraculous to the unschooled."
- 3E C:WH

"Whilst combat drills and studies of tactics can hone the body, only prayer can bolster the spirit, and all three are required to defeat the Imperium's foes. The combination of combat doctrine and prayer is most evident on the battlefield where Battle Sisters loudly proclaim their faith in hymn and verse as they march to war, calling upon the Emperor to aid them in the fight against their enemies. The perfervid, unquestioning nature of this faith is a potent weapon, manifesting as divine inspiration that drives the Adepta Sororitas to unprecedented feats of prowess."
- 5E C:SoB

And in 3E, the Shield of Faith actually passively negated psychic powers - even benign ones - as the Sisters' willpower and conviction rejected the corrupting taint creeping forth from the Immaterium. I think it is this that makes them so resistant against corruption, which at times does not only come in issues of morale, but also supernatural mind control or warpspawned sickness and mutation.

There's a number of non-GW sources going against this principle, but I actually like GW's version way more, as it lets them appear even more badass rather than reducing them to Space Wizards. Magic powers? Nope, they're just so goddamn stubborn they refuse to drop dead.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Order traits would be interesting, as long as it's nothing major that breaks their uniformity/connection.

ClockworkZion wrote:Valkyries and Avengers in the codex FTW.

Avengers are ugly. Lightnings Go!

Plus, the original Lightning seems OOP at FW, so might actually have a chance at being picked up by GW?

No, FW replaced the old one with this: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Navy/VOSS_PATTERN_LIGHTNING_STRIKE_FIGHTER.html

And I happen to like the Avenger. That bolt cannon makes things cry.

The Avenger reminds me of pod racers from Star Wars episode 1. It's probably having the engines in front and to either side of the rest of the aircraft. And the jet turbines themselves look like they were lifted directly from the movie.

 SisterSydney wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
It is the God-Emperor of Mankind working through them, the most faithful and devoted of His servants.

And the God-Emperor of Mankind is.... wait for it... a psyker!

Yeah, but he's not a witch so he's an all-right dude.

 Lynata wrote:
There's a number of non-GW sources going against this principle, but I actually like GW's version way more, as it lets them appear even more badass rather than reducing them to Space Wizards. Magic powers? Nope, they're just so goddamn stubborn they refuse to drop dead.

Yep. Willpower is key. Especially when dealing with the warp. I really hope we end up getting Adamantium Will someday.

 pretre wrote:
Of course, there's the problem of the HH books

Black Library says a lot of things, though.

 pretre wrote:
as well as Celestine and the other saints (Sabbat in Abnett's books) doing way crazy crap

This I'm fine with. It's quite clear that Living Saints are magical, and aren't necessarily the same things as Acts of Faith.

 pretre wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
There's a number of non-GW sources going against this principle, but I actually like GW's version way more, as it lets them appear even more badass rather than reducing them to Space Wizards. Magic powers? Nope, they're just so goddamn stubborn they refuse to drop dead.

Yep. Willpower is key. Especially when dealing with the warp. I really hope we end up getting Adamantium Will someday.

Me too. It'd give us back our old Shield of Faith rule without making us lose our new one.

Yes please! Adamantium Will is almost a must. I was actually disappointed about the new Shield of Faith. Invul saves are nice (and in a way also reflect their stubbornness, especially as you can still negate some psychic powers with it), but the obvious psyker rejection sounded soo much more fitting.

Troike wrote:This I'm fine with. It's quite clear that Living Saints are magical, and aren't necessarily the same things as Acts of Faith.

That, and going by GW Sabbat wasn't even a Living Saint.
But that just reflects what you said about Black Library in general.

Did you guys notice that Forge World no longer sells their alternate Immolator?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Sisters_Of_Battle

Also, I feel like other stuff is missing as well...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:
Yes please! Adamantium Will is almost a must. I was actually disappointed about the new Shield of Faith. Invul saves are nice (and in a way also reflect their stubbornness, especially as you can still negate some psychic powers with it), but the obvious psyker rejection sounded soo much more fitting.

Troike wrote:This I'm fine with. It's quite clear that Living Saints are magical, and aren't necessarily the same things as Acts of Faith.

That, and going by GW Sabbat wasn't even a Living Saint.
But that just reflects what you said about Black Library in general.

Did Adamantium Will even exist in 5th edition, when the Sisters of Battle WD dex was written?

I suppose they could've given it to them and then when 6th came out, update it in the FAQ to "Replace X rule with Adamantium Will."

RE: Adamantium Wiill. No, but we have had resistance to psychic powers previously.

Pouncey wrote:Did Adamantium Will even exist in 5th edition, when the Sisters of Battle WD dex was written?

Now that you mention it ...

"Deny the Witch" is a 6E addition, and "Adamantium Will" is a bonus to DtW, sooo ...

Wow, I'd be quite happy if that upcoming Digital Codex would actually give us Adamantium Will. I'm not expecting it, but damn, it just feels like we have a right to it.

 Pouncey wrote:
Did you guys notice that Forge World no longer sells their alternate Immolator?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Sisters_Of_Battle

Also, I feel like other stuff is missing as well...

Nah, there were only six products there, previously.

So, what are our theories about the FW Immolator being reitred?

 Troike wrote:
So, what are our theories about the FW Immolator being reitred?

Redundant kit. They sold what they had in stock and let it go. Exorcist will be next.

 Pouncey wrote:
Did you guys notice that Forge World no longer sells their alternate Immolator?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Sisters_Of_Battle

Also, I feel like other stuff is missing as well...

That Immolator has been missing for a while or I've never noticed it before. :/

I want Sisters to get Preferred Enemy (Psyker) (and have it work when they shoot/assault units with Psykers hiding in them too).