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pretre wrote:

Troike wrote:So, what are our theories about the FW Immolator being reitred?

Redundant kit. They sold what they had in stock and let it go. Exorcist will be next.

Damn, was just about to post the same.

Yeah, I'm going with this most grounded theory as well. It probably didn't sell too well over the past years .. decades ..

 pretre wrote:
Redundant kit. They sold what they had in stock and let it go. Exorcist will be next.

I won't miss them, myself. The GW kits are much better looking, IMO. All of that iconograpy is really nice.

And, come on, a sensible looking Exorcist is borderline heresy.

I can't stand the FW exorcist. It is just so boring.

 pretre wrote:
RE: Adamantium Wiill. No, but we have had resistance to psychic powers previously.

Mmhm, Shield of Faith in the Witch Hunters codex (probably earlier, too, but Witch Hunters was my first Sororitas codex so I dunno).

That Shield of Faith turned from a chance to nullify nearby psyker powers in C:WH, to a generic 6++ invulnerable save in the 2011 WD dex.

Adamantium Will would be nice and fluffy, though. ^_^ But I do wonder if they made up that part about the Sisters being highly resistant to psykers specifically to synergize Sisters of Battle to be a natural go-to force for the Ordo Hereticus, who deal largely with rogue psykers, instead of having it naturally be a part of the Sororitas as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy. But I guess if I went down that path, Sororitas should be an internal police force for taking out rogue Space Marines and other bad things, like I've heard they were originally.

 Pouncey wrote:

 pretre wrote:
RE: Adamantium Wiill. No, but we have had resistance to psychic powers previously.

Mmhm, Shield of Faith in the Witch Hunters codex (probably earlier, too, but Witch Hunters was my first Sororitas codex so I dunno).

I don't think it was in the 2nd Ed one, but I don't bring my codexes with me to school, so take that how you will.

 Pouncey wrote:
That Shield of Faith turned from a chance to nullify nearby psyker powers in C:WH, to a generic 6++ invulnerable save in the 2011 WD dex.

I'm not against it since it increased the life span of my units.

 Pouncey wrote:
Adamantium Will would be nice and fluffy, though. ^_^ But I do wonder if they made up that part about the Sisters being highly resistant to psykers specifically to synergize Sisters of Battle to be a natural go-to force for the Ordo Hereticus, who deal largely with rogue psykers, instead of having it naturally be a part of the Sororitas as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy. But I guess if I went down that path, Sororitas should be an internal police force for taking out rogue Space Marines and other bad things, like I've heard they were originally.

Yeah, I'd love to see that come back as an army trait too.

Yeah, I love me some 6++

Just noticed something of possible interest... All Seraphim Superiors are now gone from the UK GW site (glad I snagged one off eBay!), but Arco-flagellants, Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders seem to have been added to their HQ section. They're letting the metal models deplete, I guess? It's certainly a good sign that those additions to the HQ seciton were made, though. They really should have been there from the get-go of the 5e codex, glad they've finally addressd it.

Yeah, I do agree that's the most likely scenario about the Immolator. I just noticed it was gone while browsing.

And I'd still like an all-plastic Exorcist, but I'd be very happy if it was just an all-plastic version of the current GW model. Would make it easier to put together at the least.

The Superiors are still on the US site, that was noticed a while back.

And Arco, DCA and Crusaders are HQs in the codex and have been there for a while.

 Troike wrote:
Just noticed something of possible interest... All Seraphim Superiors are now gone from the UK GW site (glad I snagged one off eBay!), but Arco-flagellants, Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders seem to have been added to their HQ section. They're letting the metal models deplete, I guess? It's certainly a good sign that those additions to the HQ seciton were made, though. They really should have been there from the get-go of the 5e codex, glad they've finally addressd it.

I actually sent GW an e-mail asking them to put the Battle Conclave models in the Sisters of Battle section a number of months ago. When I saw that they had a couple of weeks ago, I was, "OMG SQWEEEEEEE THEY TOOK MY SUGGESTION! : D : D : D : D"

I distinctly remember the adding of the four : D faces.

And on the Canadian site, there's two Seraphim Superiors listed, one with a plasma pistol and power sword, and the one from the old 5-woman kit with the bolt pistol and power sword. I coulda sworn there was one with a pistol and a chainsword, but I can't imagine why anyone would take away a pistol to add a chainsword...

 Troike wrote:
Just noticed something of possible interest... All Seraphim Superiors are now gone from the UK GW site (glad I snagged one off eBay!), but Arco-flagellants, Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders seem to have been added to their HQ section. They're letting the metal models deplete, I guess? It's certainly a good sign that those additions to the HQ seciton were made, though. They really should have been there from the get-go of the 5e codex, glad they've finally addressd it.

I doubt anything malicious is going on here, probably just need to do another small batch casting run on the models.

From the US Kyrinov page:

Availability:
This product is expected to despatch within four weeks.

I've seen that happen before.

Then again maybe they're planning on making our SCs Finecast like everyone else's?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Just noticed something of possible interest... All Seraphim Superiors are now gone from the UK GW site (glad I snagged one off eBay!), but Arco-flagellants, Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders seem to have been added to their HQ section. They're letting the metal models deplete, I guess? It's certainly a good sign that those additions to the HQ seciton were made, though. They really should have been there from the get-go of the 5e codex, glad they've finally addressd it.

I doubt anything malicious is going on here, probably just need to do another small batch casting run on the models.

From the US Kyrinov page:

Availability:
This product is expected to despatch within four weeks.

I've seen that happen before.

Then again maybe they're planning on making our SCs Finecast like everyone else's?

Or better yet, making ALL of our models Finecast. : D

:: waits for the laughter to start ::

Not funny, huh...

Edit: Actually, all our metal infantry going Finecast might not be that terrible... They might actually stock them in the stores if they did that. Maybe in expensive box sets that would be less expensive than they are now...

 Pouncey wrote:

Or better yet, making ALL of our models Finecast. : D

:: waits for the laughter to start ::

Not funny, huh...

I'd buy 9 Finecast Penitent Engines.

 Pouncey wrote:
Or better yet, making ALL of our models Finecast. : D

If I didn't already have my army, I wouldn't mind that. Converting is a lot easier.

I would actually buy a bunch of finecast penitent engines probably though.

Let's not turn this into a finecast thread though.

Pouncey wrote:Mmhm, Shield of Faith in the Witch Hunters codex (probably earlier, too, but Witch Hunters was my first Sororitas codex so I dunno).

Nah, 2E had Rites of Battle.
Those were pretty snazzy, too, though. I'd love to see them return.

Pouncey wrote:But I do wonder if they made up that part about the Sisters being highly resistant to psykers specifically to synergize Sisters of Battle to be a natural go-to force for the Ordo Hereticus, who deal largely with rogue psykers, instead of having it naturally be a part of the Sororitas as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy.

Makes sense, at least for strengthening the point. They would have been considered natural allies anyways due to the Sisters being described (starting from 1E Rogue Trader and onward!) as doing purity sweeps and hunting down mutants and witches, and being resistant to corruption, but the Shield of Faith was a nice mechanical representation.
The designer's notes on the 3E Codex are a pretty cool read, explaining how they came up with various ideas.

Pouncey wrote:But I guess if I went down that path, Sororitas should be an internal police force for taking out rogue Space Marines and other bad things, like I've heard they were originally.

They still are, in a way.

"Upon declaring such a chapter Excommunicatus, an Inquisitor will attempt to determine the root cause of the rebellion in order to gauge the potential obstacles to neutralising it. Should he suspect that Chaos as the reason for the chapter's fall from grace, the Grey Knights may be mobilised. Should doctrinal heresy prove the immediate cause then the elite of the Adepta Sororitas may be the only force considered capable of prosecuting a War of Faith against the wayward chapter. On rare occasions, alien intervention may be suspected, and the highly skilled servants of the Ordo Xenos brought in to investigate."
- Index Astartes on Renegade Space Marines, WD #303 (2005)

Probably not too likely, anyways. GW seems to be remaking some of the metal and finecast kits in plastic - like Witch Elves (I got my October White Dwarf earlier this week), Sternguard/Vanguard - and have been making a lot of the new character models in plastic, even the ones without many options.

However, another thing on my Sisters of Battle wishlist, is a 3-model set of plastic Penitent Engines, like they did for Killa Kanz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:

Pouncey wrote:Mmhm, Shield of Faith in the Witch Hunters codex (probably earlier, too, but Witch Hunters was my first Sororitas codex so I dunno).

Nah, 2E had Rites of Battle.
Those were pretty snazzy, too, though. I'd love to see them return.

That Shield of Faith turned from a chance to nullify nearby psyker powers in C:WH, to a generic 6++ invulnerable save in the 2011 WD dex.

Pouncey wrote:But I do wonder if they made up that part about the Sisters being highly resistant to psykers specifically to synergize Sisters of Battle to be a natural go-to force for the Ordo Hereticus, who deal largely with rogue psykers, instead of having it naturally be a part of the Sororitas as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy.

Makes sense, at least for strengthening the point. They would have been considered natural allies anyways due to the Sisters being described (starting from 1E Rogue Trader and onward!) as doing purity sweeps and hunting down mutants and witches, and being resistant to corruption, but the Shield of Faith was a nice mechanical representation.
The designer's notes on the 3E Codex are a pretty cool read, explaining how they came up with various ideas.

Pouncey wrote:But I guess if I went down that path, Sororitas should be an internal police force for taking out rogue Space Marines and other bad things, like I've heard they were originally.

They still are, in a way.

"Upon declaring such a chapter Excommunicatus, an Inquisitor will attempt to determine the root cause of the rebellion in order to gauge the potential obstacles to neutralising it. Should he suspect that Chaos as the reason for the chapter's fall from grace, the Grey Knights may be mobilised. Should doctrinal heresy prove the immediate cause then the elite of the Adepta Sororitas may be the only force considered capable of prosecuting a War of Faith against the wayward chapter. On rare occasions, alien intervention may be suspected, and the highly skilled servants of the Ordo Xenos brought in to investigate."
- Index Astartes on Renegade Space Marines, WD #303 (2005)

Neat. : D

I wonder who would be sent to capture for interrogation, a decently powerful heathen but not Chaos psyker on a relatively new Imperial planet who'd himself captured and turned quite a few Chaos Space Marines into his own personal army... during a Chaos invasion of the planet.

pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
5 means BSS can fit inside of an Immolator.

I don't think that is necessary. It was weird that they gave the Immo to BSS in the WD.

It makes perfect sense to me - the Immolator was previously fieldable as an independent tank. This is just the same thing. Instead of fitting them in Heavy Support, they attached them to Sisters squads as auxiliary / extranumerary units. It's not a transport (APC), it's an infantry tank (IFV).

SisterSydney wrote:
Canoness "doctrines" (say, 30 points?) that can make Dominions, Seraphim, or Retributors troops (no Elites as troops, though; that seems.... off).

Seraphim are the rarest kind of Battle Sister, since they're born, not made. Dominions and Retributors, fine - they're just battle sister squads with extra special or heavy weapons, after all - but Seraphim need to remain rare and special.

ClockworkZion wrote:

From the US Kyrinov page:

Availability:
This product is expected to despatch within four weeks.

Despatch? It'll be a while before Kyrinov does that. Being dispatched on the other hand...

Pouncey wrote:
Neat. : D

I wonder who would be sent to capture for interrogation, a decently powerful heathen but not Chaos psyker on a relatively new Imperial planet who'd himself captured and turned quite a few Chaos Space Marines into his own personal army... during a Chaos invasion of the planet.

Probably a combined force of Battle Sisters and Assassins.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

pretre wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
5 means BSS can fit inside of an Immolator.

I don't think that is necessary. It was weird that they gave the Immo to BSS in the WD.

It makes perfect sense to me - the Immolator was previously fieldable as an independent tank. This is just the same thing. Instead of fitting them in Heavy Support, they attached them to Sisters squads as auxiliary / extranumerary units. It's not a transport (APC), it's an infantry tank (IFV).

Yeah, you still cram guys into IFVs though, and typically no more are assigned to an IFV than fit. I spent a few years assigned to a unit that had Bradley IFVs.

My confusion was why give it to the unit but not let the unit be small enough to ride inside.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

SisterSydney wrote:
Canoness "doctrines" (say, 30 points?) that can make Dominions, Seraphim, or Retributors troops (no Elites as troops, though; that seems.... off).

Seraphim are the rarest kind of Battle Sister, since they're born, not made. Dominions and Retributors, fine - they're just battle sister squads with extra special or heavy weapons, after all - but Seraphim need to remain rare and special.

I'd still like to see a Canoness leading scoring Seraphim on the table though.

Besides, unless you somehow make an Apoc force that is 7k+ Sisters in a single order you won't really be looking at enough Sisters to say "that isn't special or rare enough". Table top is too small to show the full scale of conflicts and really show us a situation that really reflects the full breadth of any organization or group.

ClockworkZion wrote:
From the US Kyrinov page:

Availability:
This product is expected to despatch within four weeks.

Despatch? It'll be a while before Kyrinov does that. Being dispatched on the other hand...

Furyou Miko wrote:Seraphim are the rarest kind of Battle Sister, since they're born, not made. Dominions and Retributors, fine - they're just battle sister squads with extra special or heavy weapons, after all - but Seraphim need to remain rare and special.

I'd say Celestians are the rarest ... going by 2E fluff, each Major Order trains ~7% of all its members as Seraphim. When you factor in Dominions, Retributors, Celestians and Specialists reducing the section of "normal" Battle Sisters, that's not soo rare anymore.
That being said, the 7% sounds almost like what the Marines have in their Assault squads, too.

And don't diss the Dominions/Retributors! They too need to show aptitude in order to become eligible for that sort of training. This is something where the Sisters differ from the Marines - instead of having each member do everything once (like the Astartes do), the Sisters test for proficiency (I *think* this is done by a unit's Sister Superior, who is in charge of the training of Sisters adopted into her squad) and will then permanently assign the subject to a specialisation.

Okay, I broke down and did it: I've written up a complete Faith system based on this thread (and others), now awaiting your comments over in Proposed Rules.

 Pouncey wrote:
And I'd still like an all-plastic Exorcist, but I'd be very happy if it was just an all-plastic version of the current GW model. Would make it easier to put together at the least.

Given the appearance of the Exorcist, it seems almost a given that it could be made into a dual kit with a mobile shrine thing.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
And I'd still like an all-plastic Exorcist, but I'd be very happy if it was just an all-plastic version of the current GW model. Would make it easier to put together at the least.

Given the appearance of the Exorcist, it seems almost a given that it could be made into a dual kit with a mobile shrine thing.

It could, and I'd be down with that as long as it a) buffed things and b) was able to do very cruel things to my opponent's army and c) was AWESOME.

Also that idea made that fake release schedule list.

I'm very selfish in my wish-list for a hypothetical SoB new release.

1 - Keep Battle Conclaves. I've got 8 (heavily converted) crusaders and I want to still be able to use them.

2 - Give them some way of easily fielding a Land Raider (or similar vehicle), and I spent a lot of time creating a over-Gothic-ed Land Raider for my old Inquisitor and I would love to be able to field it again.

I've got an interesting one: a piece of fluff about them cracking down on elements of the Imperium that aren't behaving themselves. Purging a rogue chapter, purging traitor guard, tussling with a rowdy chapter, something like that. It is one of their main duties, so it'd be nice to get a story about them doing something like that.

 Troike wrote:
I've got an interesting one: a piece of fluff about them cracking down on elements of the Imperium that aren't behaving themselves. Purging a rogue chapter, purging traitor guard, tussling with a rowdy chapter, something like that. It is one of their main duties, so it'd be nice to get a story about them doing something like that.

You mean other than the incident in C:WH that has them purging a section of the Administratum that was full of mutants?

I haven't read it the WH codex. Not the version with the fluff, anyway.

But yes. Another story on that aspect wouldn't be unwelcome.

 Troike wrote:
I haven't read it the WH codex. Not the version with the fluff, anyway.

But yes. Another story on that aspect wouldn't be unwelcome.

Sadly it all happens "off screen" and we really only see the result of the Inquisitor bringing in the jarred specimens to prove that he wasn't wrong for doing so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But yes, more stuff like that would be nice.

Lynata wrote:

Furyou Miko wrote:Seraphim are the rarest kind of Battle Sister, since they're born, not made. Dominions and Retributors, fine - they're just battle sister squads with extra special or heavy weapons, after all - but Seraphim need to remain rare and special.

I'd say Celestians are the rarest ... going by 2E fluff, each Major Order trains ~7% of all its members as Seraphim. When you factor in Dominions, Retributors, Celestians and Specialists reducing the section of "normal" Battle Sisters, that's not soo rare anymore.
That being said, the 7% sounds almost like what the Marines have in their Assault squads, too.

And don't diss the Dominions/Retributors! They too need to show aptitude in order to become eligible for that sort of training. This is something where the Sisters differ from the Marines - instead of having each member do everything once (like the Astartes do), the Sisters test for proficiency (I *think* this is done by a unit's Sister Superior, who is in charge of the training of Sisters adopted into her squad) and will then permanently assign the subject to a specialisation.

I'm not dissing them! It's just that this is how I see the TS&O (since I don't have a source for how it actually works);

Line squad: Sister Superior, 7-17 Battle Sisters, 0-2 Dominions, 0-1 Retributor.
Dominion squad: Sister Superior, 2-10 Battle Sisters, 0-4 Dominions.
Retributor squad: Sister Superior, 0-10 Battle Sisters, 0-4 Retributors.

I also subscribe to the fact that Celestians are just Seraphim with bolters instead of bolt pistols and jump packs, which is why I wouldn't say they're rarer - that's how they originally came about, after all. The Canoness' Bodyguard swapped their bolt pistols and jump packs for bolters, the ability to accompany a ground-bound canoness and the possibility of a banner.

This is also why I think they should have Angelic Visage as a default and two CCWs instead of an extra attack (or just give Seraphim a second attack, heh).

ClockworkZion wrote:But yes, more stuff like that would be nice.

A piece of fluff about purging a Marine Chapter would be nice, just to show that they can play in the big league as well, and reaffirm their role for responding to "doctrinal heresy" in the Astartes.
True, Andy Hoare kinda hinted at them having eradicated the Rainbow Warriors, but that was more of a side-remark than a story or timeline entry.

Furyou Miko wrote:I also subscribe to the fact that Celestians are just Seraphim with bolters instead of bolt pistols and jump packs, which is why I wouldn't say they're rarer - that's how they originally came about, after all. The Canoness' Bodyguard swapped their bolt pistols and jump packs for bolters, the ability to accompany a ground-bound canoness and the possibility of a banner.
This is also why I think they should have Angelic Visage as a default and two CCWs instead of an extra attack (or just give Seraphim a second attack, heh).

Yeah, the Celestians almost feel redundant when you consider that their job used to be done by the Seraphim...

Wait, how are Celestians just wingless Seraphim if they have +1 WS and (in the current codex) +A? Their statline being better suggests they're more elite -- as does, um, being Elites.