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Ninjacommando wrote:Arbites (cc) and Stormtroopers as troops

I'd rather see both as Troops options in a small Inquisition Allies supplement that can be tacked onto any existing Imperial army.

Probably not going to happen, but it'd be sooo fluffy - and a neat way to get Inquisitors with their retinues and even Deathwatch Marines back into the game without having to fall back on C:GK. The Allies rules are almost perfect for such small add-ons!

I see Arbites suggested for a new SoB codex a lot, but I don't understand why. The two organisations are quite separate, and don't really have much common ground.

 Troike wrote:
I see Arbites suggested for a new SoB codex a lot, but I don't understand why. The two organisations are quite separate, don't really have much common ground.

Because Arbites players want a codex too and hope to piggyback in on our awesome.

I originally was going to include Arbites in my Sisters fandex (in progress) but came up with too many options:

HQs:
Dredd-style übermensch judges
detectives as independent character infiltrators with Guardsman Marbo-style "right behind you" rules

Elites:
"High value target" kill teams with scout and/or infiltrate
Cyber mastiff teams to single out ICs and MCs
Ogryn riot police

Troops:
WS4 BS3 Arbites in carapace with shock maul, suppression shield, & bolt pistol (option to upgrade to boltgun)
Local cops/PDF as Ld6 Sv5+ cannon fodder

Fast attack:
Air patrol skimmer -- heavily armored but slow "flying bricks" to hover over hostile & heavily armed neighborhood
Sentinel walker patrol for broken terrain both urban and wilderness
Bikers

Heavy support:
Rhino-based tank - with bane wolf-style chem cannon -- normally filled with tear gas but capable of firing lethal gas
Some kind of heavy assault vehicle that can ram into and breach buildings
Fire support teams with choice of lascannon, heavy bolter, or sniper rifles

No flamers in the army -- they don't want to set the city they're patrolling on fire -- but plenty of man-portable tear gas/lethal gas projectors for that ignore cover template effect -- plus meltas for door cutting.

And army-wide Stubborn (except for the local cop auxiliaries) because I imagine

Troike wrote:I see Arbites suggested for a new SoB codex a lot, but I don't understand why. The two organisations are quite separate, and don't really have much common ground.

I recall reading about co-op between SoB and Arbites when the Sisters are performing purity sweeps, with the Arbites essentially cordoning off entire sections of a hive and pushing anyone they can grab into a long Battle-Sister-guarded queue of fearful people waiting for the Hospitallers to check on their genes and pass judgement.

But that'd still come better as part of a general Inquisition add-on, where players could then also use the Arbtites for other functions such as rooting out heretic cults with help of the Imperial Guard, or serving in a "last stand" alongside other Imperial forces against alien invaders.

SisterSydney wrote:I originally was going to include Arbites in my Sisters fandex (in progress) but came up with too many options

Yep, it's similar to the Mechanicus in that they're almost many-faceted enough to warrant their own Codex, but at the same time a bit limited as far as scale is concerned. Something like your list might work nicely in this new upcoming "Inquisition" skirmish game GW is working on, though. Or good ole' Necromunda!

 Ninjacommando wrote:
FNP for sisters across the board.

Arbites (cc) and Stormtroopers as troops

for stormtrooper (to be copied into IG codex when its redone)
Hellgun with 3 fire modes
Hotshot - str 4 ap 3 18" rapidfire
Normal - str 3 ap 5 24" assault 2
Longshot - str- ap - 36" rapid fire, sniper

Battle sisters shooting act of faith changed to make special/heavy weapon TL and bolters 2/3 salvo 24.

immolator getting its inferno cannon back, maybe an armor increase on it as well.

Penitent engine getting moved to the elites and made into a t5-6 beast instead of walker,

Weapon abilties for Dominions and retributor squads stormbolter and heavy bolter options are free

Heavy bolter/Stormbolter: Extra shot and/or rending
Heavy Flamer/Flamer: torrent base, heavy flamer has the option to torrent out to 18" but at regular flamer stats
Multi melta/meta: +6" range and something else

Arbites and Stormtroopers? Why? Neither of those are Sisters.

Battle Sisters' act of faith is already versatile. Twin Linked is the realm of Dominions, why make them less special? Salvo 2/3 for bolters would be nice, but that's basically just FRFSRF.

Immolators never had inferno cannons. An Immolator is and always has been a TLHF Razorback with a Fire Point. At one point, they could fire their heavy flamers as either two flame templates or one massive flame template, but that's not quite the same thing.

Heavy Bolters are already practically free, and even free, storm bolters are never going to be worth it on models with bolters and bolt pistols.

I assume those suggestions for the weapons are your intended faith acts? Not bad, I guess, but an extra shot is pathetic when you're already making bolters Salvo.

 Lynata wrote:
I recall reading about co-op between SoB and Arbites when the Sisters are performing purity sweeps, with the Arbites essentially cordoning off entire sections of a hive and pushing anyone they can grab into a long Battle-Sister-guarded queue of fearful people waiting for the Hospitallers to check on their genes and pass judgement.

But that'd still come better as part of a general Inquisition add-on, where players could then also use the Arbtites for other functions such as rooting out heretic cults with help of the Imperial Guard, or serving in a "last stand" alongside other Imperial forces against alien invaders.

I guess that's an okay link, but yeah, I don't think it's enough to justify them being in.

Personally, I'd much rather it be a purely SoB+Ecclesiarchy codex. I don't wany anybody else taking up artwork and fluff space, see. It would also be rather irritating if an SoB unit was somehow made redundant by a non-SoB unit, which could well happen.

Agreed. When I was working on my fandex, I originally thought I needed one Arbites unit per slot for diversity, but soon I found myself overflowing with ideas for SOB, ECC and ARB (as I put it in my notes).

That said, Sisters and Arbites should ally with each other as Battle Brothers. They're both Schola graduates, they're both heavily concerned with internal security and purity, they're both (probably) optimized for short-range urban combat.

"To us is given Faith in the Law; to you, the Law of Faith. To us is given the chastening rod; to you, the cleansing fire. To both of us is given the blessing of the God-Emperor. To both of us is given the sacred hatred of the mutant, the heretic, the traitor, and the witch. In His Name, let none survive!"
-- anonymous Arbites judge writing to Sororitas Canoness, requesting assistance on a joint urban cleansing operation.

P.S.: I just made that up, it's not from any book or WD anywhere.

I'd be fine with an Ecclesiarchy unit in every slot (mostly cheap, mobby things with low saves, low points costs and high model counts) would do it I think.

The current Ecclesiarchy things in my draft fandex -- I've not posted them for review yet, are

HQ:
Customizable Confessor who can buff entire army (e.g. everyone gets Hatred & Preferred Enemy for Psykers, Monstrous Creatures, Xenos, or whatever the Confessor is preaching against this week)

Elite:
Stubborn Crusaders
Death Cult Assassins

Fast Attack:
Crazy Mad Max Frateris in Tauros-style buggy
Arco-Flagellants -- following Beasts rules as they scuttle rapidly and rabidly over the landscape, because that's hella creepy

Troops:
Disposable Frateris Rabble, with special "Assisted Martyrdom" rule allowing you to shoot through them when they're in close combat, indiscriminately killing both the Frateris and the enemy.
(Probably should add some more elite Zealots in here)

Heavy Support:
Penitent Engines

Dedicated Transport:
Hussite Battle Wagon -- basically an Ork Trukk for humans, with Frateris shooting every which way.

Oh, and all the Frateris flamers & meltas have the "gets hot" rule because they're built in somebody's garage with more enthusiasm and expertise. And they get demo charges but the blast radius centers on the Frateris trying to use it on a to-hit roll of one.

Basically human Skaven.

fast attack calvary

That sounds like some cool ideas in your list, Syd!

I chuckled @ "Assisted Martyrdom"

Thinking about it, perhaps only other Frateris should be allowed to ignore the melee? As the Frateris would regard IG, Sisters or Marines as "sacrosanct", and IG, Sisters or Marines would be too disciplined - but the zealots regard each other as replaceable.

Just a thought that sprang to mind, though. Love the Mad Max-style! That's exactly how "The Rabble" should be run, imo.

shadowsfm wrote:
fast attack calvary

No one in power armor thanks. Zealots on horseback I could see though.

Sisters on Bikes? It makes for cool imagery... a black and white bike with huge, near-vertical exhaust pipes, looking kind of like a pipe organ. Cherub-servitor as a laud-hailer on the front, wings outspread...

.... huge, feth-off gold aquila on the hubs of the back wheel (make it a trike and you have 2). Forward-mounted twin-linked flamer or a storm-bolter.

ClockworkZion wrote:No one in power armor thanks. Zealots on horseback I could see though.

Or ogrynback, to keep with the Mad Max theme.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Arbites and Stormtroopers? Why? Neither of those are Sisters.

Battle Sisters' act of faith is already versatile. Twin Linked is the realm of Dominions, why make them less special? Salvo 2/3 for bolters would be nice, but that's basically just FRFSRF.

Immolators never had inferno cannons. An Immolator is and always has been a TLHF Razorback with a Fire Point. At one point, they could fire their heavy flamers as either two flame templates or one massive flame template, but that's not quite the same thing.

Heavy Bolters are already practically free, and even free, storm bolters are never going to be worth it on models with bolters and bolt pistols.

I assume those suggestions for the weapons are your intended faith acts? Not bad, I guess, but an extra shot is pathetic when you're already making bolters Salvo.

Eh my wishlist is for Adepta Sororitas + Ordo Hereticus(Witch hunters 2.0) codex :/, Arbites being requisitioned troops and inquisitorial stormtrooper being well inquistorial stormtroopers that being said I would also like a Ordo Hereticus inquisitor rolled back into the HQ choices. the weapon abilites I listed are ment to be constant weapon buffs for the Dominion and Retributor squads, to make up for the short range and to make them stand apart from sternguard and Devs. dominion shooting act of faith could be increased range to weapons and Twinlinked or ap increase (so melta 18", ap 3 storm bolters, torrent flamer). While the retributor's would be done in the movement phase and give them relentless in addition to another ability(Extended torrent range for heavy flamer, 2/3 range melta rule range so 16" for multimelta, Ap 3 heavy bolters) untill the end of the turn.

I didn't play in 2nd edition and started in 3rd when the first list of the Sisters of battle I saw was in the back of the 3rd ed rulebook, it listed it as having an inferno cannon instead of the tl heavy flamer. but if it never had an inferno cannon before that then torrent needs to be tacked onto it to give it a larger threat range.

but for having only 3 special weapon options the least used one needs to have an ability that actually makes it somewhat useful, the stormbolter could operate somewhat like the eldar scatter laser, you roll to hit with it first and if you score a hit, all bolters in the squad get to reroll all to hit rolls of 1(instead of twin-linked), going back to my suggestion of the 2/3 salvo bolters for the Troop selection sister's act of faith you can have that + a storm bolters to throw out some extra damage.

these be wishlist and as such 99% of em won't happen :/

 SisterSydney wrote:
The current Ecclesiarchy things in my draft fandex -- I've not posted them for review yet, are

HQ:
Customizable Confessor who can buff entire army (e.g. everyone gets Hatred & Preferred Enemy for Psykers, Monstrous Creatures, Xenos, or whatever the Confessor is preaching against this week)

Elite:
Stubborn Crusaders
Death Cult Assassins

Fast Attack:
Crazy Mad Max Frateris in Tauros-style buggy
Arco-Flagellants -- following Beasts rules as they scuttle rapidly and rabidly over the landscape, because that's hella creepy

Troops:
Disposable Frateris Rabble, with special "Assisted Martyrdom" rule allowing you to shoot through them when they're in close combat, indiscriminately killing both the Frateris and the enemy.
(Probably should add some more elite Zealots in here)

Heavy Support:
Penitent Engines

Dedicated Transport:
Hussite Battle Wagon -- basically an Ork Trukk for humans, with Frateris shooting every which way.

Oh, and all the Frateris flamers & meltas have the "gets hot" rule because they're built in somebody's garage with more enthusiasm and expertise. And they get demo charges but the blast radius centers on the Frateris trying to use it on a to-hit roll of one.

Basically human Skaven.

Hussites! Yes! Finally someone knows who they are. I wrote an article about them. Never bring a sword to a gun fight. I might have to model that now. A bunch of Frateris militia in a wagon covered in shields and guns.

 Lynata wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:No one in power armor thanks. Zealots on horseback I could see though.

Or ogrynback, to keep with the Mad Max theme.

wait, are we talking about sisters or squats?

I could be wrong here but wouldn't ogryns not be used in any form by very hardcore and extreme imperial forces. Something about them being abhumans.

Ogryn cavalry would be a cool idea for imperial guard but that'd basically be like the krootox for the tau.

Sisters on bikes I could see though. Nuns on motorcycles seems pretty freaking hilarious actually.

I wouldn't mind Sisters on bikes as long as GW did the following:

1. Make them different from Marines (even if it's every bike is an Attack Bike or is a different, lighter design, make it look interesting and different from Marine bikes).

2. Make them as over the top as hell. Exhausts that look like church organs, robes flapping in the wind, chainswords mounted to the front so when they ram someone it HURTS, ect. I want Nuns with Guns on Motorcycles cranked to 13 here.

 Lynata wrote:
That sounds like some cool ideas in your list, Syd!

I chuckled @ "Assisted Martyrdom" ...Love the Mad Max-style! That's exactly how "The Rabble" should be run, imo.

That and MWHistorian's desire to model a Frateris Hussite inspired me to actually post my Ecclesiarchal units over in proposed rules -- comment & critique would be more than welcome.

From my intro over there:

Some are modifications of what's in the White Dwarf Codex (customizable Confessors, Crusaders in squads), some are revived from Witch Hunters (Arco-Flagellant packs & Death Cult Assassin squads), some are entirely new (Frateris Rabble & vehicles), but all are crazed and full of glorious hate.

In the Emperor's Name, let none survive, baby!

shadowsfm wrote:wait, are we talking about sisters or squats?

flamingkillamajig wrote:I could be wrong here but wouldn't ogryns not be used in any form by very hardcore and extreme imperial forces. Something about them being abhumans.

The Ecclesiarchy hates mutants, but not all factions of it are as hardcore as the Sisters in immediately wanting to put a bolt shell in their heads - hence I could see thoroughly indoctrinated abhumans being volunteered as cannonfodder or pack donkeys in a (futile) attempt to find redemption from their parents' sin. Basically taught to hate themselves, then given the chance to atone for being born. Grimdark.

So then is this mostly codex: sisters of battle with possible bits and pieces of inquisition barely mentioned (kind of like the new grey knights) or is this a codex: witch hunters with plenty of allied imperial guard and inquisitors?

The codex sounds like it'll be more sisters of battle though I suppose ogryn cavalry would be a fun idea. I still imagine imperial guard using this more.

------------

A bit off topic but since we mentioned the different extremes of the imperial factions I thought i'd mention the grey knights and daemonhunters.

Meh I still miss the idea of radical inquisitors in the old daemonhunters codex with daemonhosts. Of course back before the ward-dex they were actually pretty ridiculously good as were the assassins. He kind of gave them a big middle finger. To be fair I wanted grey knights before his revision but they were so outdated that they had no anti-vehicle infantry units and most things were sub-par to marines of the time. I know many hated mat ward's revision but the grey knights needed it. I just wanted to have some radical inquisitor goodies. I don't think that'll happen for at least a while. A daemon sword would've been nice or a character at least.

In a way I think the ogryn cavalry for a sisters codex will end the same way as the inquisitor section of the grey knights book. Under-developed and thrown in at the last second.

------------

Edit:

I still think those sisters that look like living statues would be a good idea. Perhaps they'd look too much like the sanguinary guard for blood angels for how I picture them though. In my head they'd look more like those creepy weeping angel statues that scare the crap out of people.

I know we already sort of have it with a special character ('karimazov' I think but i'm far too tired right now to look) but we could also have a priest on a floating pulpit/altar giving a sermon for boosts to faith points or morale/leadership or negative modifiers for enemies (perhaps depending on your roll).

Perhaps those floating robotic angels could do something. I'm pretty sure sisters had something like that.

This is also a HUGE stretch but what if sisters of battle had giant statues of long dead saints that came alive 'tomb kings' style (an army from warhammer fantasy) or statue of liberty style like that 'ghostbusters' movie? I'm probably going to get insulted for it but then it could duel with like a Monstrous Creature in combat. I mean everything in 40k is stepping up to monstrous creatures anyway for the most part. I wouldn't be too terribly surprised if sisters did it. We already have mobile suits for tau now as well as the wraithknight craziness.

Here's what i'm talking about with the tomb kings giant living statues. You could just make them angelic instead but I feel the idea of living statues or supposedly living statues is a good one to keep.

Ideally, this should be Codex: Sisters of Battle, with Inquisition units mentioned nowhere, because seriously, we are Ecclesiarchy troops.

The Ordo Hereticus was formed to keep an eye on us, because the rest of the high lords thought we were a threat to the stability of the Imperium. Really, they're completely redundant now that we've proved ourselves more loyal than the Astartes themselves.

Also, I had this idea a while back as a "The absolute worst GW could saddle us with" concept based on the recent Monstrous Creature releases for other new armies.

Aquila. Cavalry. Flying Monstrous Creatures in the shape of two-headed eagles ridden by Battle Sisters.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So then is this mostly codex: sisters of battle with possible bits and pieces of inquisition barely mentioned (kind of like the new grey knights)

That's what I did. The only Inquisitorial option I'm planning to include is an Ordo Hereticus inquisitor -- and maybe not even as an HQ, just as an Elite, because arguably the Ecclesiarchy would insist on one of its Confessors or Canonesses "volunteering to join the Inquisitor's task force."

Storm troopers would work well as troops in a GK/Inquisition codex because they'd be a cheaper alternative to their expensive troop choices. However, in a Sisters Codex they'd be competing with regular Sisters in a similar role.

Instead I'd like to see Crusaders as a troop choice. Normal Sisters of Battle Squads provide shooting/all-rounder base and Crusaders would be more of a close-combat option. Give the Crusaders options to change their power weapons and maybe start them off with a 4++ shield to make them cheaper, with options for a storm shield. Give them a few purchasable doctrines offering different USRs. They'd become very handy. And they're much more relevant to the Ecclesiarchy's fluff that either Arbites or Storm Troopers.

The only way I'd keep it similar to the GK codex is by expanding the Confessor's retinue with options similar to an Inquisitors. Preachers would be able to take only one retinue but Confessors can take upto three. Storm Troopers would replace the Crusaders in the retinues and psykers can be taken instead of daemonhosts - for those few who want to play a rebellious preacher army, etc. Of course they wouldn't be able to take any actual Sororitas units if they did.

Other roles I'd include would like to see include having Living Saints (0-1) who act kinda like champions/chaplains, Mistresses as their own unit - duel power whips that can either reduce initiative (like Tyranid lash whips) or attacks (like Lucius' whip) would make them fun. And perhaps both a HQ character option and an Elite unit option, inspired by the Sisters of Silence. I imagine they'd be a trickster units of sorts with an ability similar to the Etherium used by Culexus Assassins.

Also, I'd ask that they keep the AoF system simple (similar 5E) but give squads a lot more options as to what AoF they can utilise (like 3E).

Just some ideas off the top of the head. It's not an all-inclusive list of everything the codex needs but just some ideas I've been personally toying with...

A lot of different interpretations and preferences here, both in terms of the role of the Inquisition or other allied forces, as well as the degree of "supernaturality". As far as living statues are concerned, the most I'd be willing to go for would be Sisters who wear a sort of expressionless metal face-mask, and how (amongst the more superstitious and less civilised cultures) this could spawn legends of statues of warriors having come alive and delivering bloody vengeance upon the unfaithful. When the Astartes can be regarded as "angels riding from the sky on trails of fire", then the Sororitas' equipment should have much of the same effect upon certain kinds of people.



Such masks would even make sense for the Seraphim given the wind speeds their faces must be exposed to, and I could well see "Angelic Visage" referring to such eternal faces untouched by age or injury.

But that still sounds like copying the Blood Angels now. Grah!

As for what should go into the Codex, I think in my idea of an ideal world we'd have a Codex that is exclusively SoB, but with Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition as two standalone supplements that can be tacked on to any Imperial army.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I wouldn't mind Sisters on bikes as long as GW did the following:

1. Make them different from Marines (even if it's every bike is an Attack Bike or is a different, lighter design, make it look interesting and different from Marine bikes).

2. Make them as over the top as hell. Exhausts that look like church organs, robes flapping in the wind, chainswords mounted to the front so when they ram someone it HURTS, ect. I want Nuns with Guns on Motorcycles cranked to 13 here.

I think instead of bikes, they should have something closer to ATV/Quads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:
A lot of different interpretations and preferences here, both in terms of the role of the Inquisition or other allied forces, as well as the degree of "supernaturality". As far as living statues are concerned, the most I'd be willing to go for would be Sisters who wear a sort of expressionless metal face-mask, and how (amongst the more superstitious and less civilised cultures) this could spawn legends of statues of warriors having come alive and delivering bloody vengeance upon the unfaithful. When the Astartes can be regarded as "angels riding from the sky on trails of fire", then the Sororitas' equipment should have much of the same effect upon certain kinds of people.

Spoiler:

Such masks would even make sense for the Seraphim given the wind speeds their faces must be exposed to, and I could well see "Angelic Visage" referring to such eternal faces untouched by age or injury.

But that still sounds like copying the Blood Angels now. Grah!

As for what should go into the Codex, I think in my idea of an ideal world we'd have a Codex that is exclusively SoB, but with Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition as two standalone supplements that can be tacked on to any Imperial army.

Yes it would be cool if they had a exclusively SOB codes, but that begs the question. Are the Sisters of Battle diverse enough to support a full codex on their own. Also, at there core isn't the sisters of battle the military forces of the Ecclesiarchy?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Ideally, this should be Codex: Sisters of Battle, with Inquisition units mentioned nowhere, because seriously, we are Ecclesiarchy troops.

I agree with this. Let the Inquisition stay with the GKs. Ally Inquisition people or Stormtroopers in if you really want them, but keep the codex purely SoB/Ecclesiarchy. We need all the spotlight we can get, dammit.

Ralis wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I wouldn't mind Sisters on bikes as long as GW did the following:

1. Make them different from Marines (even if it's every bike is an Attack Bike or is a different, lighter design, make it look interesting and different from Marine bikes).

2. Make them as over the top as hell. Exhausts that look like church organs, robes flapping in the wind, chainswords mounted to the front so when they ram someone it HURTS, ect. I want Nuns with Guns on Motorcycles cranked to 13 here.

I think instead of bikes, they should have something closer to ATV/Quads.