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Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






And that makes 25-point priests much less insanely overpowered.

Still insanely overpowered, mind you, just less insane. If they have to roll 7 or less, you cannot plan on their Hymns working more than half the time.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

Conversion idea: Take crossbow bits and trim them down, wrist mount to a Sister's forearm.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


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Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

But I'm still gonna push for the Condemnor Bolter to cause perils to all psykers in units I hate re-rollable 2++'s on units....

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

That's RAW right now, might as well abuse the gak out of it while we can just to reap the tears.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


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Made in us
Plummeting Black Templar Thunderhawk Pilot





Equestria/USA

 Hollowman wrote:
 conker249 wrote:
I was refering to a weapon stat I couldn't find. Wasn't refering to a special rule. Not sure where that came from. The codex is still missing an entry for a weapon that needs it. My question was refering to if I really couldn't find it or it wasn't there at all. Thanks to clockwork I know that it has been left out.


I'm not sure you read that comment right - he said the stats for the hand flamer are in the BRB, and mentioned a few other things that are in the BRB as well.

Hand flamer stats are listed with all the other flamers in the main rulebook.

I got huffy for no reason.

Black Templars 4000 Deathwatch 6000
 
   
Made in us
Sister Vastly Superior



Boston, MA

 pretre wrote:
Oh yeah, double then add. So S8 AP2 (2 attacks) or S5 AP4 3 Attacks.

Also, good call on that for the normal attacks. Since he has the smash rule, he gets AP2 without having to half his attacks.


It is either S8 AP2 (2 attacks) or S5 AP2 (3 attacks)... I will need to triple check when I get home but I am pretty sure the smash rule explicitly makes all attacks AP2 AND gives the ability to half-attacks for double strength.

Edit: So, to be more clear, even if you do not double-your-strength you still have AP2 attacks with the power maul (at initiative, even though it is only 3 it matters against Dlords and riptides!)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/23 21:15:59


 
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

Yeah, it does. I just checked.

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Made in us
Sister Vastly Superior



Boston, MA

 Hulksmash wrote:
But I'm still gonna push for the Condemnor Bolter to cause perils to all psykers in units I hate re-rollable 2++'s on units....


Rock on man, I'm with ya


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 pretre wrote:
Yeah, it does. I just checked.


Yeah, so powermaul priests are pretty awesome. Don't forget about concussive too!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/23 21:17:09


 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 SisterSydney wrote:
And that makes 25-point priests much less insanely overpowered.

Still insanely overpowered, mind you, just less insane. If they have to roll 7 or less, you cannot plan on their Hymns working more than half the time.

And Ld 8 really breaks them? They're still Ld 7 on their own so a PriestStar only gets maybe half the powers they're trying to get off to work (hope you have at least 6 in there!), and it only really starts getting good when you put them with another, more expensive unit, and which case they basically act as a 25 pt upgrade whose ability only works 1/3 phases and has to Look Out Sir! so they don't risk biting the dust.

I feel that even testing on the highest Leadership that they're balanced fairly well between the different pros and cons. I mean it's a Guardsman with War Hymns instead of Orders and a Rosarius.
   
Made in us
Sister Vastly Superior



Boston, MA

 ClockworkZion wrote:
 SisterSydney wrote:
And that makes 25-point priests much less insanely overpowered.

Still insanely overpowered, mind you, just less insane. If they have to roll 7 or less, you cannot plan on their Hymns working more than half the time.

And Ld 8 really breaks them? They're still Ld 7 on their own so a PriestStar only gets maybe half the powers they're trying to get off to work (hope you have at least 6 in there!), and it only really starts getting good when you put them with another, more expensive unit, and which case they basically act as a 25 pt upgrade whose ability only works 1/3 phases and has to Look Out Sir! so they don't risk biting the dust.

I feel that even testing on the highest Leadership that they're balanced fairly well between the different pros and cons. I mean it's a Guardsman with War Hymns instead of Orders and a Rosarius.


I'll just point out that if you plan on running priest-star you should be taking Litanies. LD7 does not matter when your entire unit and all ICs attached automatically pass all checks...

 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

quiestdeus wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 SisterSydney wrote:
And that makes 25-point priests much less insanely overpowered.

Still insanely overpowered, mind you, just less insane. If they have to roll 7 or less, you cannot plan on their Hymns working more than half the time.

And Ld 8 really breaks them? They're still Ld 7 on their own so a PriestStar only gets maybe half the powers they're trying to get off to work (hope you have at least 6 in there!), and it only really starts getting good when you put them with another, more expensive unit, and which case they basically act as a 25 pt upgrade whose ability only works 1/3 phases and has to Look Out Sir! so they don't risk biting the dust.

I feel that even testing on the highest Leadership that they're balanced fairly well between the different pros and cons. I mean it's a Guardsman with War Hymns instead of Orders and a Rosarius.


I'll just point out that if you plan on running priest-star you should be taking Litanies. LD7 does not matter when your entire unit and all ICs attached automatically pass all checks...

That's also something that can be sniped out and drives the cost of the unit up.

Let's be frank here, the Priests aren't close to broken. A power weapon puts them at 40 points for something that fights like a Guardsman.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/23 21:27:23


 
   
Made in dk
Deadly Dire Avenger





Hmmm I can't find anything that stops IG from using an ICs ld for orders. Well apart from the faq, but thats specific to allied ICs.
   
Made in us
Sister Vastly Superior



Boston, MA

Lilrys wrote:
Hmmm I can't find anything that stops IG from using an ICs ld for orders. Well apart from the faq, but thats specific to allied ICs.


Correct. Guard cannot used allied ICs, but that can use their own ICs LD --- like adding a Commisar to a blob makes it easier to issue orders, but adding Jacobus or Celestine does not.

 
   
Made in us
Repentia Mistress





Also, looking at the rules for a psychic test it says "A Psychic test is a Leadership test, however, where Leadership tests could be taken on the value of another mode, a Psychic test is always taken on the Psyker's own Leadership."

War Hymns: "A model with this special rule can take a Leadership test..."

All the evidence appears to point at using the highest Ld in the unit when rolling for Hymns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What's the wording for the IG Orders?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/23 21:52:49


 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

Indeed it does.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

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Made in gb
Angelic Adepta Sororitas





You could always takes the 15 point relic that lets you auto pass Hymms and AoF.
   
Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator





May not want to put a commissar in a unit with a high leadership AS character. Good way to lose an AS character
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

war wrote:
May not want to put a commissar in a unit with a high leadership AS character. Good way to lose an AS character

No, they FAQ'd that. Commissars only shoot IG characters.

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Made in us
Executing Exarch





McKenzie, TN

Hulksmash wrote:Oh, and for the leadership for Hymns I'm going to treat it like IG orders which are also a leadership test (i.e. not affected by attached characters). It's a special ability so you test on the base leadership, not the character enhanced leadership. But that's just me.

Actually your example is not correct. IC from codex IG are both affected by and their leadership is used. In fact there is specific mention of orders in the Ld bubble for Lord Commissars. You are probably thinking of the FAQ where it states ALLIED ICs do not benefit nor can their Ld be used.

Right now I can see both ways being plausible for the priest but the unit wide abilities are highest Ld in the unit for sure. I guess this makes Celestine more viable as she could turn a priest star into a real threat.

I think I will see a few (would be alot but metal models...) of minimum Flamer/HF BSS + condemnor sis in MM Immos with max melta doms and exorcists. It is actually pretty interesting that the new AS are really good against all the major tourney armies. Condemnors may single handedly invalidate CD and GK armies. Scouting ignore cover melta and massed HF have a very good chance to nuke a Tau player off the board. A single dom squad can almost HP strip a waveserpent dead in one turn. If the CWE player actually wants to do any damage to the AS player they will have to drop shields. If they do the AS player will nuke them. The only army they are not ideally suited for taking on is necrons. This is why I think AS is going to get a lot of love from players as part of an allies force and AS players may really appreciate firestorm redoubts which are murder on flyers.

I really think AS is going to be one of the big favorites for IG players to ally in some priests. There is going to be a rush to buy 1-5 priests and 5-10 BSS with perhaps an exorcist and some Immos. MSU BSS are actually fairly decent forward scoring squads (as compared to all the IG options which die if looked at out of cover).

It will be interesting to see if this revitalizes interest in SoB and the combinations that come about. I could see some nasty builds with IG (blobbs+vendettas), SM (grav those MCs and Stormraven that hellturkey), or DA (PFG for all those Immos could be brutal).
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 Mythantor wrote:
You could always takes the 15 point relic that lets you auto pass Hymms and AoF.

And adding in the cost of their power weapon (as you did give him a Power Maul, right?) he runs 55 points. And has 1 wound. And will die 50% of the time he's forced to take a save.
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

I wouldn't bother giving him a power maul.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
5 Priests and 1 Litanies - 140

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/23 22:11:34


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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 pretre wrote:
I wouldn't bother giving him a power maul.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
5 Priests and 1 Litanies - 140


So S6 Smashes for you then? With laspistols? Yeah, I don't see that getting anywhere fast. Not to mention the number of wounds that can be poured on it very fast. 2+ LOS for the Litanies aside, everyone in that unit still only has a 4++ vs permanent death. One good round of shooting and that unit is a greasy smear.

Priests are best as a supports for units not a really lame deathstar from what I can see.
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

Anyone else finding it rather difficult to use the Ebook to make lists? I find the flipping annoying. Page memorization seems to be the key. Sigh. More bandwidth. Allocating now...

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
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Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So S6 Smashes for you then? With laspistols? Yeah, I don't see that getting anywhere fast. Not to mention the number of wounds that can be poured on it very fast. 2+ LOS for the Litanies aside, everyone in that unit still only has a 4++ vs permanent death. One good round of shooting and that unit is a greasy smear.

Priests are best as a supports for units not a really lame deathstar from what I can see.

S6AP2 is still S6 AP2. 2 Attacks base, one extra for charge or counter charge. What about the 20 sisters with the 5++/3+ to soak wounds? Unlikely that one round of shooting is going to smear it. Or are you talking about a unit of only priests?

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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 Jancoran wrote:
Anyone else finding it rather difficult to use the Ebook to make lists? I find the flipping annoying. Page memorization seems to be the key. Sigh. More bandwidth. Allocating now...

Isn't that common with standard codexes too?

 pretre wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
So S6 Smashes for you then? With laspistols? Yeah, I don't see that getting anywhere fast. Not to mention the number of wounds that can be poured on it very fast. 2+ LOS for the Litanies aside, everyone in that unit still only has a 4++ vs permanent death. One good round of shooting and that unit is a greasy smear.

Priests are best as a supports for units not a really lame deathstar from what I can see.

S6AP2 is still S6 AP2. 2 Attacks base, one extra for charge or counter charge. What about the 20 sisters with the 5++/3+ to soak wounds? Unlikely that one round of shooting is going to smear it. Or are you talking about a unit of only priests?

I was talking about a Priest Star. But if you want to stick that 140 points into a 20 Sister Blob that'll run you nearly 400 points without upgrades.

For that cost I'd rather stick just 1 Priest in that squad instead.

I've been toying with trying to work out a 1.5K list and I think focusing more on the standard squad size in Rhinos or MSU in Immolators might be my better bet. 20 Sister blobs look like a better option once we hit 2K and want extra bodies to hold objectives.

If I get some time I'll drum up what I'm thinking and put it out for critiquing.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut



Canada

So, I don't know if this has already come up in this discussion, but with the advent of the new Sisters 'dex, I've been pondering the viability of a Sisters blob. A big squad of 20 Battle Sisters, led by Uriah and a Litanies of Faith Priest, would be able to benefit from two War Hymns at once (passed automatically thanks to the LoF), would be Fearless, and would be able to reroll all of their armour/5+ invul saves in close combat.

Do any of you think this big unit is tactically viable, or is it bound to get shot to hell by ordnance/Hellturkies etc?


EDIT: Aaargh, and now I notice someone beat me to it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/23 22:30:02


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Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

Both Lord, both. It depends on what your meta looks like, the points scale, and how many blobs you run to make them effective I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I only beat you by under a minute on posting Lord so don't feel bad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/23 22:33:15


 
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

Someone proposed a unit of just priests? That's silly.

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Made in us
Sister Vastly Superior



Boston, MA

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 pretre wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
So S6 Smashes for you then? With laspistols? Yeah, I don't see that getting anywhere fast. Not to mention the number of wounds that can be poured on it very fast. 2+ LOS for the Litanies aside, everyone in that unit still only has a 4++ vs permanent death. One good round of shooting and that unit is a greasy smear.

Priests are best as a supports for units not a really lame deathstar from what I can see.

S6AP2 is still S6 AP2. 2 Attacks base, one extra for charge or counter charge. What about the 20 sisters with the 5++/3+ to soak wounds? Unlikely that one round of shooting is going to smear it. Or are you talking about a unit of only priests?

I was talking about a Priest Star. But if you want to stick that 140 points into a 20 Sister Blob that'll run you nearly 400 points without upgrades.

For that cost I'd rather stick just 1 Priest in that squad instead.


That is exactly what people used to do with IG blobs and Jacobus and it was very effective. I see no reason why it still would not be, it only seems to have gotten better with counter attack (allowing you to stand there and rapidfire into something and STILL get the benefit of a charge), a 3+ save versus shooting, and more, higher strength AP hits once you get into CC.

 
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

Well and the fact that people have been talking about the big 20 girls with Uriah and litany priest for days now.

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