New Sisters of Battle Codex Tactica

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**Mavnas**

AFAIK none of the CTan's close combat attacks are str D.

**SisterSydney**

Besides, a Destroyer CCW against a one-wound model is... inefficient. Every attack the Giant Chainsaw of Bitey Doom or the Khorny Khleaver of Khorne spends squashing your infantry is a net plus for you.

**sfshilo**

SisterSydney wrote:
I'm very curious about this list and how it works:

Only one Exorcist? More Seraphim than Dominions in Fast Attack? Battle Sister Squads using a special weapon slot for a Storm Bolter? These are all contrary to conventional wisdom with the 6th edition codex, and I'm very interested in someone who uses them successfully. What are your tactics and experiences?

So I started this list like the others. You know the normal list.
My issue with exocists is they are obvious. They are expensive and they draw fire like crazy. Three of them is a LARGE commitment to heavy support tanks. They die you are done.

The chimeras....oh boy do they pump out pain. At 60 points with the 50 point pskyers they fill two rolls the exorcists do not. Anti infantry and hoard and they continue to fill this roll even after the chimera dies. The Psykers can also contest!

The large troop squad outflanks with uriah and the inquisitor assuming he passes his ld check. With a second priest it is a beat stick unit. Good shooting, hard to kill, denys slay the warlord.

The Seraphims with flamers are just a good harassing unit. It is surprising how much attention they get just being a jump unit. And with servo skulls you can deepstrike well.

Finally, the storm bolter is an assault weapon, its cheap, its like having another bolter in the squad to make up for the priests sucky shooting. Another flamer doesn't do a whole lot in a squad that small and I have WAY more then enough AT in the army to justify the more expensive melta.

**BlackTalos**

Ovion wrote:
Curiously enough, I think Repentia might be a worthy counter for Knights, especially against a Knight-Only list.

The StrD weapons are only about as deadly as any other against them, and they hit with good old Eviscerators.

Definately viable as a counter-charge unit, possibly store them in a rhino?

Standard Sisters, even without priest are so much better:

The knight has 3 attacks that kill you:
S10 Hammer of Wrath (unless you get the charge)
3 D weapon hits
Stomp attack

With repentia, the HoW kills 1, D weapon probably 1 or 2, and the stomp potentially kills 6-7. That's the squad gone.

Stomp is what will kill the hordes, but Stomp is AP4, so the best unit to hold off the Knight for a while is 3+ Saves.
And correct me here, but aren't Sisters the only 3+ rerollable save? (Priest)

**Furyou Miko**

Repentia can kill the knight, battle sisters can't.

sfshilo - a storm bolter is 5 points for an extra shot at long range, since you've got a priest and flamers, aren't you trying to get into short range anyway? Just seems to me that you're better off taking an extra Sister instead of two storm Bolters.

**Ovion**

BlackTalos wrote:
Ovion wrote:
Curiously enough, I think Repentia might be a worthy counter for Knights, especially against a Knight-Only list.

The StrD weapons are only about as deadly as any other against them, and they hit with good old Eviscerators.

Definately viable as a counter-charge unit, possibly store them in a rhino?
Standard Sisters, even without priest are so much better:

The knight has 3 attacks that kill you:
S10 Hammer of Wrath (unless you get the charge)
3 D weapon hits
Stomp attack

With repentia, the HoW kills 1, D weapon probably 1 or 2, and the stomp potentially kills 6-7. That's the squad gone.

Stomp is what will kill the hordes, but Stomp is AP4, so the best unit to hold off the Knight for a while is 3+ Saves.
And correct me here, but aren't Sisters the only 3+ rerollable save? (Priest)

You can't make regular attacks AND stomp.
It's one or the other.

Standard Sisters can tarpit it sure, but they can't even scratch the paint on the AV13 they have to deal with in CC.

If it charges THEM, then sure, that's probably 1 dead. I'll try and avoid the Mistress buying it so she can tank some Stomp if need be.
If it uses the D weapon, that's 1-3 dead, this is a good result. We'll assume the average of 2 though.

Chances are, it won't be using the D-Weapon to try and wipe out the entire squad, which is even better for us, as that leaves a full EIGHT repentia to strike at the same time as it if it charged them:
16 attacks, hitting on 4's will mean 8 hits, 1.33 glances and 3.33 pens (4.66HP so far), then 1/3 of those pens should be an Explodes, causing +2HP damage, for a total of 6.66 HP damage and 1 dead knight.

In turn, the Stomp is likely to have 2 small templates and hit 4 Repentia each, and cause 5.556 wounds.
The Superior can soak 3 of those wounds (save 2, die 1), leaving 2 to probably die with only a 6+ save to save them.
1 dead titan, 4 dead Repentia, 1 Dead Superior, when IT, charged THEM.

If it DID use the D-Weapon, then you'll only get 6 left for 12 attacks, so 1 glance and 2.5 pens (3.5), you MIGHT get an Explodes for another 1-3 HP, but chances are it'll still be alive.
And locked in combat.
And then you get to make a further 6-10 attacks in the next assault phase and destroy it.
3-5 Repentia left in this case, titan still dead.

And if the Repentia charge, at full strength - 36 attacks, 18 hits, 3 glances, 7.5 pens, 2.5 explodes for a further 5 HP damage, AKA - 15.5 HP damage. (If the Titan goes for StrD instead of Stomping they'll still do 12.16 HP damage).

3-4 charging Repentia is enough to kill a Knight.
5-6 to be sure incase it StrDs you instead of stomping.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Michael wrote:
Playing a 600pt game against DE tomorrow, anyone got some general advice? I know he's always runs a few raiders and/or venoms, so an exorcist is a must against his AV11 vehicles. Since it's a small game, I'll run two BSS with double melta instead of the usual F/HF, and go without dominions for a change. I was thinking of taking Celestine with seraphim bodyguard to deal with his infantry.

Raiders and Venoms are AV10.
Ravagers 11.

Take 2 Exorcists, 2 BSS with Heavy Bolters, and maybe Celestine to jump about on her own murdering stuff? Any remaining points fill with more BSS (and Heavy Bolters as able).

Focus fire on the transports first, ravagers second, and troops third, and that should cover it.

**SisterSydney**

Ovion wrote:
You can't make regular attacks AND stomp. It's one or the other.

Nope:

“ The Stomp attack is made in addition to the Super-heavy Walker’s normal attacks.”
Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Warhammer 40,000: Escalation (eBook Edition).” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/GGzVT.l

Of course, that the Knight can use its Destroyer attacks on individual infantry in addition to Stomping them doesn't make it a good idea.

**Mavnas**

At least the stomp is at I1, right? So the repenting would get off a round of attacks. (The explosion when it does will kill them anyway, so who cares about the stomp.)

But really as a sisters army if you're meleeing a knight something has gone wrong. Knights aren't particularly immune to massed melta fire from multiple directions like a C'Tan, also their very limited ranged RoF is not scary to an army without expensive units standing around unprotected.

**Ovion**

Huh, I stand corrected, but that's still only +2 dead, so it should generally be enough.

You'd also need 12-15 Meltas to down a Knight in 1 round, vs 1 squad of Repentia.

155pts vs 570pts+
120-150pts just in meltaguns, 150-180+ in sisters holding them, then the 300+pts of sisters that have to go with em if taking as troops.

**BlackTalos**

Ovion wrote:
BlackTalos wrote:
Ovion wrote:
Curiously enough, I think Repentia might be a worthy counter for Knights, especially against a Knight-Only list.

The StrD weapons are only about as deadly as any other against them, and they hit with good old Eviscerators.

Definately viable as a counter-charge unit, possibly store them in a rhino?
Standard Sisters, even without priest are so much better:

The knight has 3 attacks that kill you:
S10 Hammer of Wrath (unless you get the charge)
3 D weapon hits
Stomp attack

With repentia, the HoW kills 1, D weapon probably 1 or 2, and the stomp potentially kills 6-7. That's the squad gone.

Stomp is what will kill the hordes, but Stomp is AP4, so the best unit to hold off the Knight for a while is 3+ Saves.
And correct me here, but aren't Sisters the only 3+ rerollable save? (Priest)
You can't make regular attacks AND stomp.
It's one or the other.

Standard Sisters can tarpit it sure, but they can't even scratch the paint on the AV13 they have to deal with in CC.

If it charges THEM, then sure, that's probably 1 dead. I'll try and avoid the Mistress buying it so she can tank some Stomp if need be.
If it uses the D weapon, that's 1-3 dead, this is a good result. We'll assume the average of 2 though.

Chances are, it won't be using the D-Weapon to try and wipe out the entire squad, which is even better for us, as that leaves a full EIGHT repentia to strike at the same time as it if it charged them:
16 attacks, hitting on 4's will mean 8 hits, 1.33 glances and 3.33 pens (4.66HP so far), then 1/3 of those pens should be an Explodes, causing +2HP damage, for a total of 6.66 HP damage and 1 dead knight.

In turn, the Stomp is likely to have 2 small templates and hit 4 Repentia each, and cause 5.556 wounds.
The Superior can soak 3 of those wounds (save 2, die 1), leaving 2 to probably die with only a 6+ save to save them.
1 dead titan, 4 dead Repentia, 1 Dead Superior, when IT, charged THEM.

If it DID use the D-Weapon, then you'll only get 6 left for 12 attacks, so 1 glance and 2.5 pens (3.5), you MIGHT get an Explodes for another 1-3 HP, but chances are it'll still be alive.
And locked in combat.
And then you get to make a further 6-10 attacks in the next assault phase and destroy it.
3-5 Repentia left in this case, titan still dead.

And if the Repentia charge, at full strength - 36 attacks, 18 hits, 3 glances, 7.5 pens, 2.5 explodes for a further 5 HP damage, AKA - 15.5 HP damage. (If the Titan goes for StrD instead of Stomping they'll still do 12.16 HP damage).

3-4 charging Repentia is enough to kill a Knight.
5-6 to be sure incase it StrDs you instead of stomping.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Michael wrote:
Playing a 600pt game against DE tomorrow, anyone got some general advice? I know he's always runs a few raiders and/or venoms, so an exorcist is a must against his AV11 vehicles. Since it's a small game, I'll run two BSS with double melta instead of the usual F/HF, and go without dominions for a change. I was thinking of taking Celestine with seraphim bodyguard to deal with his infantry.
Raiders and Venoms are AV10.
Ravagers 11.

Take 2 Exorcists, 2 BSS with Heavy Bolters, and maybe Celestine to jump about on her own murdering stuff? Any remaining points fill with more BSS (and Heavy Bolters as able).

Focus fire on the transports first, ravagers second, and troops third, and that should cover it.

Apart from the stomp adding on kills, you are right, they would be very good at it.

However i would go for: tarpit with a 10 sisters squad so that you get the Repentia on the charge (and 36 attacks) and a definite Knight kill, but then comes the D/10/6 Template =D

I would suggest Exorcisting it with help of melta guns scouting, tho get that template in enemy lines rather than your deployment zone...

**sfshilo**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Repentia can kill the knight, battle sisters can't.

sfshilo - a storm bolter is 5 points for an extra shot at long range, since you've got a priest and flamers, aren't you trying to get into short range anyway? Just seems to me that you're better off taking an extra Sister instead of two storm Bolters.

No, the priest is for fearless, 4++, and war hymns.

A 6 person squad isn't going to kill much assaulting, but they are a great speed bump, and a good objective holder. So I'm either getting assaulted after they blow up my tank. (Priest keeps them from pinning and makes them hard to kill with rerollable saves) Or I'm sitting on objectives hitting people at range.

Another flame thrower makes that unit strictly defensive and close range, a melta has the same problem and 5 points more. Dunno, just my preference to have that extra bolter shot on a charge or holding an objective.

**Mavnas**

Ovion wrote:
Huh, I stand corrected, but that's still only +2 dead, so it should generally be enough.

You'd also need 12-15 Meltas to down a Knight in 1 round, vs 1 squad of Repentia.

155pts vs 570pts+
120-150pts just in meltaguns, 150-180+ in sisters holding them, then the 300+pts of sisters that have to go with em if taking as troops.

Your estimates seem high, are you assuming they all shoot at the shielded side? If you have multiple units and you're trying to space them out for avoiding templates there's no reason to not try to hit 2-3 facings.

**Ovion**

Mavnas wrote:
Ovion wrote:
Huh, I stand corrected, but that's still only +2 dead, so it should generally be enough.

You'd also need 12-15 Meltas to down a Knight in 1 round, vs 1 squad of Repentia.

155pts vs 570pts+
120-150pts just in meltaguns, 150-180+ in sisters holding them, then the 300+pts of sisters that have to go with em if taking as troops.
Your estimates seem high, are you assuming they all shoot at the shielded side? If you have multiple units and you're trying to space them out for avoiding templates there's no reason to not try to hit 2-3 facings.

Have to assume the shielded side, as if there's an instance where you can't surround it, you'll need it.

I was also assuming the side/rear armour to be nice.
BUT, specifics:

AV13 (front)
With 4+*
Outside of Melta Range: 36 Shots > 24 hits > 2 glances, 2 pens (4 HP), 1.3 explodes (+2HP) > Dead Knight
Inside Melta Range: 15 Shots > 10 hits > 0.5 glances, 3.6 pens (4.1 HP), 1.9 explodes (+2/4HP) > Dead Knight

Without 4+*
Outside of Melta Range: 18 Shots > 12 hits > 2 glances, 2 pens (4 HP), 1.3 explodes (+2HP) > Dead Knight
Inside Melta Range: 8 Shots > 5.3 hits > 0.6 glances, 3.8 pens (4.4 HP), 2 explodes (+4HP) > Dead Knight
- Alt (less reliable): 6 Shots > 4 hits > 0.4 glances, 2.9 pens (3.3 HP), 1.5 explodes (+3HP) > Dead Knight

AV12 (side/rear)
With 4+*
Outside of Melta Range: 24 Shots > 16 hits > 1.3 glances, 2.7 pens (4 HP), 1.6 explodes (+3HP) > Dead Knight
Inside Melta Range: 12 Shots > 8 hits > 0.3 glances, 3.3 pens (3.6 HP), 1.7 explodes (+3HP) > Dead Knight

Without 4+*
Outside of Melta Range: 12 Shots > 8 hits > 1.3 glances, 2.7 pens (4 HP), 1.6 explodes (+3HP) > Dead Knight
Inside Melta Range: 6 Shots > 4 hits > 0.3 glances, 3.3 pens (3.6 HP), 1.7 explodes (+3HP) > Dead Knight

So it could be as few as 6 needed, but as many as 36.

You're reliably probably going to want at least 12-15, so that you can melta it with the shield going.

**phatonic**

Hey guys... i'm considering starting a small force of sisters as i got a friend offering me a bunch of stuff..so was thinking...

at what point range would i be looking at if i was taking

2x groups of 10 sisters with a (heavy weapon)
superior with them?

led by a cannoness

how many points would i have around then? i'm thinking of allying them to my Space marine force and it would be cool to know ^^

Or as a main army for a detachement of knights or the other way around.

**Ovion**

You're looking at around 325pts with 1 10pt weapon on each BSS squad and no upgrades.

So probably could be up to 350-400 without too much trouble.

Grab an Exorcist to go with it and you're up to 400-450.

- edited for screwed up maths.

**phatonic**

i'm grabbing the Sisters digital codex now.. so i can have a better read at what units i should get

but any recomendations for wich spec weps to have for the units?

**Mavnas**

You're looking at about 365 points there give or take depending on upgrades. (325 minimum for 20 sisters,cannoness, 2 heavy weapons)

Realistically though, sisters can take a special and a heavy weapon in a squad of 5. Taking a single weapon upgrade in a squad of 10 is kind of meh?

**phatonic**

Mavnas wrote:
You're looking at about 365 points there give or take depending on upgrades. (325 minimum for 20 sisters,cannoness, 2 heavy weapons)

Realistically though, sisters can take a special and a heavy weapon in a squad of 5. Taking a single weapon upgrade in a squad of 10 is kind of meh?

Wel i'm planning to use them as allies first just for fluff reasons in a campaign..

so only two troops allowed.. but i can have 1 spec wep and 1 heavy then ey? any recomendations as a all commer wep?

**Mavnas**

I think one of the more common setups is flamer/heavy flamer. I intend to experiment with 2x melta gun.

**Brother Michael**

Mavnas wrote:
I think one of the more common setups is flamer/heavy flamer. I intend to experiment with 2x melta gun.

I usually find that in smaller point totals, where you can't afford to get dominions, meltaguns are a really decent substitute. When you take more than, say, 500-600 points worth of allies, get a dominion squad instead and kit the BSS out with F/HF.

**SisterSydney**

I'm still fond of kitting out Battle Sisters with one meltagun and one heavy flamer so they're able to deal with either vehicles or infantry...maybe that's just making them jack of all trades, master of none, though.

**Mavnas**

SisterSydney wrote:
I'm still fond of kitting out Battle Sisters with one meltagun and one heavy flamer so they're able to deal with either vehicles or infantry...maybe that's just making them jack of all trades, master of none, though.

I did the math at some point and remember thinking that Melta guns are superior vs MEQ infantry.

2/3 * 5/6 = 5/9 marines killed vs.
2/3 * 1/3 = 2/9 marines killed per hit

So you'd have to hit 3 each time for it to be better to use the flamer. Also the melta gun has better range. The flamers also require careful positioning. They fare better vs targets in cover assuming the cover doesn't prevent you from hitting multiple guys.

Of course on overwatch the flamer wins hands down unless you're being charged by some T9 thing... But if you're being charged by a transcendent C'Tan, your BSS special weapon choices may be the least of your concerns.

So really flamer isn't the anti-infantry choice, it's the anti-horde choice. The regular flamer needs to hit 3.33 targets to come out better against MEQ.

**Furyou Miko**

sfshilo wrote: -snip-
Another flame thrower makes that unit strictly defensive and close range, a melta has the same problem and 5 points more. Dunno, just my preference to have that extra bolter shot on a charge or holding an objective.

Just cut down for space. I see this mistake a lot... why do flamers limit them to being defencive? You don't need to hold your objective if you can force him off his, and you only need one more than him to win. You're best off within 12" of him anyway to get rapid fire bonuses.

phatonic wrote:i'm grabbing the Sisters digital codex now.. so i can have a better read at what units i should get but any recomendations for wich spec weps to have for the units?

Basically, anything but storm bolters and multi-meltas!

As a small allied detachment, I'd go for dual meltas or dual flamers to cover whichever hole is in your main list (anti-horde or anti-elite/tank). Flamer/Heavy Flamer is a good combination, but Flamer/Flamer is a little cheaper and still effective.

My advice is to use minimum size Sisters squads to speed your access to Dominions and/or Exorcists, but massive blob squads of Sisters are scarily effective at anti-infantry duties. I've had units of 20 battle sisters with dual meltaguns wipe our Chaos Terminator squads led by Typhus before now.

**Mavnas**

I just don't see bolters as being that effective. It takes 9 shots on average to kill a marine. That's a min squad's full shots at bonus shot range. Then again I'm at 100+ hours of painting my sisters and about 10 of actually getting games in. I'm hoping to fix that later this month.

**SisterSydney**

Are you counting the Act of Faith that gives Preferred Enemy there? It's once or twice per game, depending on whether you pay 10 points for a simulacrum, but that can add significant brutality on demand.

**Mavnas**

Ah, true. I guess with 20 that would matter more.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, I just had some interesting thoughts about the new imperial knights codex and how one would counter them. I'm starting to wonder if shooting at them isn't the wrong way to go about things.

Think about it. If a BSS squad charges a knight. They lose on average 2 to the sword (at most 3) and an average of 1 to the stomps as long as you thin them out properly when removing casualties (at most 3, but that's incredibly unlikely). Even at 4 lost per assault phase, this would allow a 9 sister squad with priest where both the priest and the superior have melta bombs 4 attacks with melta bombs.

Each melta bomb attack (initially) has a 3/4th chance to hit with 13/18ths chance to remove 1 HP and 7/24ths chance to remove D3 more. .722 = .98 average HP of damage. About 2/3rd of an HP on subsequent turns. So on average, you'd expect this fight to result in the knight being tied up a turn and a half and lose 4 HP in the process. (Ideally though, you'd want the priest to be stomped at the end of his turn the voluntarily fail the morale test so that on your second turn all those units that took advantage of the knight being tied down to flank him can open fire from multiple angles.)

A 20 sister blob with both a priest and SS with melta bombs should just be able to kill it without any outside help, and an enemy who is bad at math might spare you the trouble of careful maneuvering and deliver the knight straight into your squad.

Obviously if his stomps start covering more than one model the math gets worse for you, but then the priest could also be giving the sisters the chance to reroll armor vs. those stomps... so that kind of evens out?

**Celtic Strike**

I've started doing stuff like this

Saint Celestine

5 BSS Flamer, H. Flamer MM Immolator
5 BSS Flamer, H. Flamer MM Immolator
5 BSS Flamer, H. Flamer MM Immolator
5 BSS Flamer, H. Flamer MM Immolator

5 Dominons 4XMelta, Combi melta, Repressor
5 Dominons 4XMelta, Combi melta, Repressor
7 Seraphim, P.Pistol, 2 Twin hand Flamers

Exorcist
Exorcist
Avenger strike fighter W/Autocannons

**BlackTalos**

Pretty good list, but i don't like the 5BSS squads, it's like Marine combat squads: each failed armor save is a chance to run.

Maybe i just like my 10-girl squads...

**Furyou Miko**

You mean Seraphim, Celtic, not Celestians.

IF only we had out fire points, then the 5 BSS would be good...

That said, using them as suicide squads is quite effective.

**Celtic Strike**

Fixed. Haha. I've found that the Repressors, Exorcists and the Avenger gives the opponent too many targets to focus on the 5 girl squads camped in Immolators.

Also, that gives me points left over, I can add priests or Inquisition or what-have-you to the rest of the army.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alternately, I like doing a big squad of inquisitorial henchmen with flamers and a few priests/Inquisitors/Coatz to recreate that Redemptionist vibe from the 'Chapter approved' codex.