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Fleshbane is found under the 'Dirty Fighter' specialist chart. Next to the name Fleshbane are 2 asterisks. Scrolling down to the bottom there are 2 asterisks followed by the words 'applies to Specialists close combat attacks only'.

Yes, you can take Fleshbane on a flamer, but it does seem fairly pointless as it only applies to punching.

Sorry if it comes off a little 'holier then thou', it is most sincerely not my intent. One of the guys at the store I sometimes frequent was using things like this to crush a new kiddo (purposely I might add. I'd pointed it out to him the month before). It &*^%'s me off to no end.

Silly question, I dont have the SOB codex yet.

But can any of the IC take Terminator armour?

No. Apparently the Ecclesiarchy doesn't have that level of clearance. Celestine has TDA +1, but that's it.

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Fleshbane is found under the 'Dirty Fighter' specialist chart. Next to the name Fleshbane are 2 asterisks. Scrolling down to the bottom there are 2 asterisks followed by the words 'applies to Specialists close combat attacks only'.

Yes, you can take Fleshbane on a flamer, but it does seem fairly pointless as it only applies to punching.

Sorry if it comes off a little 'holier then thou', it is most sincerely not my intent. One of the guys at the store I sometimes frequent was using things like this to crush a new kiddo (purposely I might add. I'd pointed it out to him the month before). It &*^%'s me off to no end.

Oh, it's in the Kill Team rules. NM.

The only thing that can take Fleshbane among the Kill Team specialists, is the Dirty Fighter, and it has a note saying Close Combat attacks only.
Apparently, it didn't tell me about the other posts to this effect before I posted.

Giving a flamer Rending or Sniper is funny though.

Highlander tournaments allow you to take no more than one of any unit, expect for troops from codexes with only one troop choice. Dedicated Transports seem to be another exception. Sister could take two or more BSS, and even do a mini-Immie spam within the Highlander restrictions.

SJ

So after 70 odd pages are people still seeing small units with flamers in immos as the most effective builds with a friendly neighbourhood priest riding shotgun of course!

Ceann Fine wrote:
So after 70 odd pages are people still seeing small units with flamers in immos as the most effective builds with a friendly neighbourhood priest riding shotgun of course!

No. I usually run F/HF in a Rhino for my scoring plus one big blob with priests. Still my favorite build.

 pretre wrote:

Ceann Fine wrote:
So after 70 odd pages are people still seeing small units with flamers in immos as the most effective builds with a friendly neighbourhood priest riding shotgun of course!

No. I usually run F/HF in a Rhino for my scoring plus one big blob with priests. Still my favorite build.

What sizes are they?

5 girls for Rhinos and 20 girls for blobs usually. Although, if I'm short a couple points I've been known to go down to 18.

What does your overall list look like mate if you don't mind me asking

Ceann Fine wrote:
What does your overall list look like mate if you don't mind me asking

Usually something like:

Celestine
Jacobus
20 Girls F/HF
1-3 5 Girl squads in Rhinos with F/HF
1-3 Dominion Squads with TL-MM and Meltas
2-3 Exorcists
0-1 Retributors with HB

Allies (Inquisitors or IG)

Cheers bro

Ceann Fine wrote:
So after 70 odd pages are people still seeing small units with flamers in immos as the most effective builds with a friendly neighbourhood priest riding shotgun of course!

Well, a mix of MSU hammers and a 20-Sister blob with Priest and/or Jacobus as the anvil. It's a good codex compared to the White Dwarf one, but we are still starved for choice of unit types (hence my feverish homebrewing to make more), which in turn means there are not many great combos.

So then for a thousand points or so what do people think of this

Hq
Jacobus

Priest
Melta bombs
priest mace of valaan

Troops
20 sisters
Flamer
Heavy flamer

5 sisters
Flamer/heavy flamer
Rhino
Dozer blade

5 sisters
Flamer/heavy flamer
Rhino
Dozer blade

Heavy support
Exorcist

Exorcist

Is a knight a worthwhile investment for a Sisters army? I've seen several that include them, and it got me wondering whether or not to acquire one.

They do look like they can bring some nice killing power, at the risk of concentrated points. It's also fluffy, oddly enough.

So, Paladin, or Errant? If at all?

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Is a knight a worthwhile investment for a Sisters army? I've seen several that include them, and it got me wondering whether or not to acquire one.

They do look like they can bring some nice killing power, at the risk of concentrated points. It's also fluffy, oddly enough.

So, Paladin, or Errant? If at all?

Its a expensive model but offers a number of things to the Sororitas is my opinion - durable and L/R firepower as well as devastating close combat ability in both variants that can't be ignored.

Played one last night - although opponent changed so caught off guard when he turned up with one as well!

I played a bit cagy with mine (despite knowing from other posts that you should charge it at your enemy.....(for reasons discovered later) and lured him towards me, hoping to kill it with melta shots and leaving the field clear for my own to mop up - nearly worked as it went down by 3 hits from my Canones and her squad alone (melta girl and a krak Grenade from another sister with her ( ), dropped another hit with the melta from my own knight but did not quite kill it..............

Consequently he charged my undamaged Knight with his dying one, and took 5 hits off me from some fire and his chainsword - I hit him and cut it in half which meant it exploded - killing my Knight which then in turn exploded ..... lots of craters!

I discovered that Knights are also time bombs!

I have gone for a Errent as I think its more in keeping

That was my thought (Trinity all the way). Maybe I'll have a chat with the guys about swapping out the stubber for a HB (15pts seems reasonable). But yeah, Errant seem to fit the modus operandi of the Sisters a little more.

I personally would not pay 15pts for a HB. The stubber has 1 purpose only: firing it at what you want to charge. If you get kills with it it's just bonus =P

Knights blowing up is usually what turns the tide of the battles i play:
Turn 1 & 2 the entirety of the enemy army will fire at your knight (almost), leave the rest of your army to do as you please.
Turn 2 -3 ish your knight blows up near the enemy line, usually in close combat (2 Trygons so far and a few other enemies of my choice) killing both said target and wounding/killing a lot around it...

Ceann Fine wrote:
So then for a thousand points or so what do people think of this

Hq
Jacobus

Priest
Melta bombs
priest mace of valaan

Troops
20 sisters
Flamer
Heavy flamer

5 sisters
Flamer/heavy flamer
Rhino
Dozer blade

5 sisters
Flamer/heavy flamer
Rhino
Dozer blade

Heavy support
Exorcist

Exorcist

This is solid for 1000 points.

What do sisters do for anti air?

They look at you and say 'what's Anti Air'.

Though generally I'd say adding in an Aegis, or Heavy Bolters / Exorcists will be sufficient for most light AA duties.

There's also the Avenger Strike Fighter for air support.
And you could also ally in some marines or guard.

Personally, I tend to use Heavy Bolters with my repentia, though I will be doing an Avenger or two at some point.

Also, i am in need of help with Tactics/List change:

Currently having an in-store Tournament, list at 1600, and one the the enemies I "fear" the most would have something along the lines of:
3 x Riptides - Interceptor, Skyfire
Outflanking Kroot x 1 or 2
Pathfinders x 1
Fire warriors x 1
And other fluff around (not played the army yet and do not know Codex:Tau well enough)

My current 1600 List:
Canoness(C.of St.Aspira, Rosarius); Minit. Priest (P. Gun, P.W.); Command Squad (5 HB)
Battle Sisters Squad (10, F, HF); Battle Sisters Squad (10, F, HF); Battle Sisters Squad(5, F, HF)
Dominion Squad (4 Meltagun; 2 P.Pistol; Immolator-Laud Hailer)
Exorcist; Exorcist ; Avenger
Knight Errant

So i'm in need of Tactical advice, because i feel like i'm just about to get shot down entirely on turn 1?

ADL. Immolator spam. Lots of shots. Forgeworld. Yah know, the usual for older/not-very-well-thought-out codices.

Guess the tides are turned this time Ovion.

 Ovion wrote:
They look at you and say 'what's Anti Air'.

Though generally I'd say adding in an Aegis, or Heavy Bolters / Exorcists will be sufficient for most AA duties.

There's also the Avenger Strike Fighter for air support.
You could also ally in some marines or guard.

Personally, I tend to use Heavy Bolters with my repentia, though I will be doing an Avenger or two at some point.

Avenger is a pretty good AA choice, especially since it still has a non-FAQed Deep strike (if needed) and S6 - S9 weapons with Skyfire.
Its Rear heavy stubber is also excellent at Grounding FMC =)

If you do not want/have an avenger, then Bastion or Aegis defence lines are for you

 BlackTalos wrote:
Also, i am in need of help with Tactics/List change:

Currently having an in-store Tournament, list at 1600, and one the the enemies I "fear" the most would have something along the lines of:
3 x Riptides - Interceptor, Skyfire
Outflanking Kroot x 1 or 2
Pathfinders x 1
Fire warriors x 1
And other fluff around (not played the army yet and do not know Codex:Tau well enough)

My current 1600 List:
Canoness(C.of St.Aspira, Rosarius); Minit. Priest (P. Gun, P.W.); Command Squad (5 HB)
Battle Sisters Squad (10, F, HF); Battle Sisters Squad (10, F, HF); Battle Sisters Squad(5, F, HF)
Dominion Squad (4 Meltagun; 2 P.Pistol; Immolator-Laud Hailer)
Exorcist; Exorcist ; Avenger
Knight Errant

So i'm in need of Tactical advice, because i feel like i'm just about to get shot down entirely on turn 1?

I would think the Tau player is equally worried about your Knight - especially if you can reduce the chance sof Riptides Deep striking nearby by placing other units nearby at the start. If you can get up there amongst his stuff with it he will have to kill it - it should slaughter riptides in CC - if it can catch them

Not sure about some of your choices personally - I would go for smaller Sisters units in transports - the only real downside is the stunned etc possbility - but thats true of all DT except Cheese Serpents
I like the Mantle on the Canoness if using her as Eternal Warrior is good.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
Also, i am in need of help with Tactics/List change:

Currently having an in-store Tournament, list at 1600, and one the the enemies I "fear" the most would have something along the lines of:
3 x Riptides - Interceptor, Skyfire
Outflanking Kroot x 1 or 2
Pathfinders x 1
Fire warriors x 1
And other fluff around (not played the army yet and do not know Codex:Tau well enough)

My current 1600 List:
Canoness(C.of St.Aspira, Rosarius); Minit. Priest (P. Gun, P.W.); Command Squad (5 HB)
Battle Sisters Squad (10, F, HF); Battle Sisters Squad (10, F, HF); Battle Sisters Squad(5, F, HF)
Dominion Squad (4 Meltagun; 2 P.Pistol; Immolator-Laud Hailer)
Exorcist; Exorcist ; Avenger
Knight Errant

So i'm in need of Tactical advice, because i feel like i'm just about to get shot down entirely on turn 1?

I would think the Tau player is equally worried about your Knight - especially if you can reduce the chance sof Riptides Deep striking nearby by placing other units nearby at the start. If you can get up there amongst his stuff with it he will have to kill it - it should slaughter riptides in CC - if it can catch them

Not sure about some of your choices personally - I would go for smaller Sisters units in transports - the only real downside is the stunned etc possbility - but thats true of all DT except Cheese Serpents
I like the Mantle on the Canoness if using her as Eternal Warrior is good.

As said i've not played him yet, but would the Riptides not be able to take down the Knight in a few turns?
The army is played as the typical "at the back of my table, come to me" so i would not worry excessively about DS Riptides

I do see the 5-10 sisters in Rhino in all lists and wonder why i'm still foot-slogging but until i get the extra Rhino that won't change much (i would cut down on the squad numbers if there is a good reason - or down to 2 troops rather than the 3)

Mantle on the canoness is technically to tank most wounds on the re-rollable 3+, with LoS on anything S6 + although it worked in my mind, i realise i've played her at the back of the squad and never tested this...

Mechanising the army will be a priority. Any advice on how to actually advance?
So far it's Dominions on Scout and within enemy lines if i get first turn, Outflanking if i go second.
Most of the army advancing, supplying targets while Exorcists, HBs and Avenger clean up. (The 2 10-girl squad well spread will almost always attract fire as they walk up the board =P )

So, I'm strongly considering Pask + friend + death blob setups and I've been going back and forth on this, but so far I've come up with:

Inquisitor with power armor, 3 servo skulls, Hammerhand, that libram that lets you have scout, rad grenades
Priest with litanies of the faith
7x Priests (One to put up the other buff, 6 to smash)
1 Engineseer (for Pask's benefit)
3 primaris psykers (extra force weapons and to fish through divination and biomancy)

102 - Inq
215 - 8 priests
40 - engineseer
225 - 3 psykers

582 points already, though in all fairness some of those guys are in there just to hide in the blob rather than to buff it itself

At this point, without the charge bonus the blob gets 18 S4 AP2 attacks, 2 S5 AP2 attacks, 13 force weapon attacks (either S5 AP2 at I1 or S4 AP3 at I 3 and 4), 6 S4 AP - attacks. If one was willing to shell out 90 more points those 18 S4 AP2 attacks become S6 AP2 attacks at I3. All these attacks re-roll to hit and wound, all saves are rerolled in close combat. For shooting attacks you've got 4 S4 AP2 attacks from any psyker that didn't roll a thing you wanted on Biomancy. You have the options to take some plasma pistols, but why?

The powers you're fishing for:
-(div)everyone gets 4++ (if not, you have spare priests),
-(div)Forcing the enemy to reroll successful saving throws. In fact, getting multiple uses out of this one would be amazing given that Pask and his unit are going to be engaging up to 3 targets
-(bio) -1T and S to an enemy unit. Because having your S3 guys instant death MEQ on every swing is funny. Also, because this lets you hurt up to T8 things with every attack. (Also helps Pask and friends sweep secondary targets off the table and prevents the enemy from scoring that many wounds on you.)
-(bio)The one that gives relentless, IWND, and FNP. If the troops in this unit have a mass of rapid fire guns... yeah, this is the one that's the reason your psykers aren't all divination all the time, also FNP helps against enemies putting out lots of weaker attacks, and IWND heals your multi-wound models if they do get hurt. FNP also helps your psykers with perils of the warp.

Powers that are situationally useful
-(bio)Things that buff the psyker (meh... the initiative and or str one might be nice situationally, but you have so many attacks already and you're already tanking the incoming damage well enough)
-(div)overwatch at full BS (maybe? Depends on who the troops will be)
-(bio)lifeleech, your psykers shouldn't be taking damage, but if they they get a perils of the warp
-(bio)Haemorage, if you got enfeeble and the enemy has a bunch of T3-T4 guys this might be OK? (Actually if the inquisitor can toss a rad grenade to go with that Enfeeble, play the fun game of how many T3 dudes have to die before he can roll a 1... starting with the one you picked. Can you LoS! focused witchfire?)

Now for the finishing touches. The troops in the squad:
50 guardsman blob? (Lots of ablative wounds, your majority WS is already 3, large foot print)
50 conscript blob? (Cheaper, tanks your majority WS further, but any enemy worth mentioning was probably already hitting you on 3+, these guys are even less likely to get anything done, but with hammerhand, rad grenades, reroll to hit and wound, and possibly enfeeble... yeah even 50 hits from these guys can be gross.) Most of the orders are kind of meh for this squad except the one that lets you split fire. What does shooting a single weapon at another squad do? It allows you to pour lasgun fire into one unit, while charging a different unit. There's few units that can stand up to your charge, wasting your shots on them too is even more overkill. This way you spread the killing.
20 Battle Sisters? (Smaller blob, but now you have a 3+, which is much nicer if you don't roll the 4++ from divination or your enemy goes first. Also re-rollable 3+ in melee is nicer)
12 Crusader Henchmen squad (Way smaller blob, but 3++ means not relying on divination and being able to survive nasty shooting too.) You could have a second squad of following behind ready to step in if the first set of crusaders gets chewed up (if the enemy wants to shoot at 3++ guys not part of your main blob... he can go right ahead).
12 Arco-flagellant squad. Because what you desperately need are 48 more S6 attacks against dudes who are down 1 to 2 toughness. (Yeah... no) Fun fact: these guys could put 4.5 wounds onto a Transcendent C'Tan while in this squad with just their attacks.
10 Celestians - Not scoring under any circumstances and fewer wounds than the 20 BSS (though 2 attacks, so there's that). Take them with a simulacrum because adding furious charge to this unit would be hilarious. Fun fact: the 6 smashing priests would be making S10 AP2 attacks that reroll armor pen at initiative with their CCW. (If you don't take the celestians, you'd have to at least give them maces to accomplish that). Might be fun just to be able to say that you've killed some AV14 things with nothing but a pocket knife and lots, and lots of faith.
5 Sisters command squad... more power weapons, can guarantee the FNP, take the banner to give you an extra 20ish attacks 80% of which are AP2 or 3. Forces you to take a Canoness, who as an eternal warrior with a 4++ can tank some hits for your blob. The command squad's act of faith also helps make sure you don't fail your charge (and/or allows you to use a distant unit to pull your blob forward by a lot more in a single turn)
Straken + CCS (at this point lose Pask :( or make this a guard army) With Straken, this unit is relentless and has furious charge as above, but relentless is a lot less awesome without having added some rapid fire guns to benefit from it. (meh) Straken has to eat the challenges, but he's making S8 attacks on the charge against people down 1-2T. He will turn non-EW T5-6 guys with unwieldy weapons into a fine meat paste before they can act.
Bullgryns with brute shields and power mauls. You know, because this unit didn't already cost your whole army in points... but S9 attacks at initiative? (Actually, they're bad compared to your priests who are way cheaper and more effective when they make their smashing attacks)

Also, I feel like your Warlord or Sisters HQ (if this becomes a guard army with a CCS) should go into this squad:

Best choice if you're going Sisters feels like it should be St. Celestine. Rerollable 2+ in close combat means most non-AP2 S5 or less attacks your unit will shrug off maintaining its combat power. Hit and Run at I7 allows you to not be tarpitted and/or reposition if your enemy somehow survives two assault phases. Celestine can also split off and hunt down small enemy scoring squads once you've cleared the table of high S low AP fire (or if you can keep her engaged during the enemy shooting phase so that she can't be shot at).
Uriah could be usable if your main unit is something that has an act of faith you'd like to use more of, but the unit is already fearless like 8 times over.
Canonness gives you an eternal warrior who can tank for the squad at 3+/4++, but meh?

Hey, guys!

So, I don't usually post because I haven't been playing recently. (I've been studying abroad for awhile, you see.) However, I'm going back stateside in a few months, and I want to come back 40k with a vengeance... and a lot of flamers.

I was admittedly a little let down at first by the new AS Codex, but after acquainting myself with the new 'dex and researching tactics here, I've reconciled my disappointment (mostly with the downgrade of Celestine... yes, it *should* have happened, just not after I finished making a really nice conversion of her... +sad face+) and am now actually quite hopeful for trying out the army for myself.

Anyways, I was curious about the best way to run Seraphim. (They're probably my favourite Sisters models... I've even outfitted my Superiors with Sanguinary Guard winged jump packs! ) I just don't know where to start with them. I was thinking that a full squad (maybe two) with Celestine would be good to deep strike in the later game to help "clean up," but, frankly, it's been so long since I've played that I really don't know what I'm doing. XP (And, yes, I do know the 6th ed. rules... it hasn't been *that* long.. >_> ) I supposed it's fair to say that I'm rather out-of-touch with the current state of the game/meta, in general... :/

I've been playing Sisters since they were Witch Hunters, so I have an extensive collection of AS and Inq to draw from. I'm not exactly looking for an entire army list, just the most interesting way to use and support Seraphim in battle.

Thanks!

@Mavnas: That's a lot of points in one blob. You may be hamstringing yourself for the rest of your army.

@madhatter00o: Seraphim work fine with a foot list and Celestine to tank for them.

Dual Hand Flamers are probably the best way to field them though.