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Alright, so what do people think about upgrading superiors to vet superiors? The extra leadership may save you from running off the table, but it's 10pts that could be spent elsewhere. This is a question where the vet would be in troop choices in a priest bomb blob list, so no fearless to pass around like candy...

What does Dakka think? Worth it or no?.

Also, a little late to the party, but here's my Saint Celestine.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
Alright, so what do people think about upgrading superiors to vet superiors? The extra leadership may save you from running off the table, but it's 10pts that could be spent elsewhere. This is a question where the vet would be in troop choices in a priest bomb blob list, so no fearless to pass around like candy...

What does Dakka think? Worth it or no?.

Also, a little late to the party, but here's my Saint Celestine.

D

Spoiler:

Work like that, it's never too late.

I always take vets on squads above 5, although I jump straight to 10, so YMMV. The extra leadership is excellent, but that extra attack has saved my ass on more then one occasion.

You also have to consider your Acts of Faith, not just whether or not the unit will run. You have a 72.22% chance of rolling an 8 or less, meaning you'll typically fail 5 Acts of Faith for every 18 you attempt.


You have an 83.33% chance of rolling a 9 or less, which are the same odds of a model with an initiative of 5 or higher failing an Initiative test for Hit and Run (1 in 6, or 3 in 18).

It may not be as big a deal for your baseline squads, but it could be crucial for your Seraphim, Retributors and Dominions.

I never take veteran superiors, except in 6th with the occasional seraphim. But that used to only be for challenge bait when i ran them with Celestine. Now that challenges are vastly different, i probably wouldn't. I also haven't run seraphim in 7th yet.

10pts is huge. that's another flamer or melta elsewhere. Not to mention, if you're that concerned you can take a simulacrum for the same pointt cost and have two 72% chances, or the laud hailer on 1 rhino for a 27" reroll bubble.

Yeah, I agree with DD. Superiors are points better spent elsewhere.

Well, remember that Celestine projects an Ld 10 bubble for acts of faith.

I'd say eating the challenge for Celestine is still worthwhile. Imagine a tough 2+ model with MEQ buddies. If the seraphim superior can eat the challenge for Celestine, she can murder his squad then Hit and Run away before having to eat high S AP2 wounds herself and Celestine can tank the low str ccw attacks with her 2+. If your opponent has fewer attacks or you roll OK on your 6++ reroll able, he gets to be the one making the test to not run away. Without the superior, Celestine is swinging in effectively against 2+ hoping you won't fail a single 4++.

Only if you take her as your warlord. Jacobus is a pretty good warlord in his own right, and if I can make this Raptors list work my warlord will end up being Lias Issodon because his special rule requires him to be your warlord. Not that I'd balk at having infiltrating Dominions and Seraphim!

I always take a vet SS on my doms as I usually outflank with them and I don't want to fail my aof. I play on a ruins heavy board so being able to ignore cover is very important for me. Also they are usually way out of Celestine's bubble.

I'd rather take a laud hauler...

Yeah loud hailer for the doms is the way to go.

Yeah I'm not sold on the vet superiors being worth it.

Jaco will always be my warlord when running the blob. Celestine if running mechanised MSU, and I running msu, there's priests to lass around for fearless.

D

I wouldn't take priests for msu. Kinda defeats the point of small and cheap.

I can still appreciate the challenge bait worthiness of a veteran SS in a seraphim squad attached to celestine. But, in my last 6 6th games the squad always seemed to be annihilated before getting anywhere close to earning its points backs, so i just haven't' forgiven them yet, and haven't ran them in 7th


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't know why this just popped into my head, but i'm going to try putting a vindicare in a rhino on top of my bastion. So the enemy has to strip 3 hull pts off of AV11 behind a 4+ cover save just to get to the gooey center of model that will then have a 3+cover/4++ save.

Shenanigans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unless assassins can't embark on transports, haven't looked,

They can. Does pivoting in place count as moving?

 deviantduck wrote:
I can still appreciate the challenge bait worthiness of a veteran SS in a seraphim squad attached to celestine. But, in my last 6 6th games the squad always seemed to be annihilated before getting anywhere close to earning its points backs, so i just haven't' forgiven them yet, and haven't ran them in 7th


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't know why this just popped into my head, but i'm going to try putting a vindicare in a rhino on top of my bastion. So the enemy has to strip 3 hull pts off of AV11 behind a 4+ cover save just to get to the gooey center of model that will then have a 3+cover/4++ save.

Shenanigans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unless assassins can't embark on transports, haven't looked,

How does the rhino get on top of the bastion?

D

Deploy it on top!

Air dropped of course.

Ha.

Excellent use of shenanigans. Not sure I could make it fly at my club though.

D

I am -- assassin. I am -- silent. I am -- deadly. I am -- invisible. I am -- sitting in a tank on top of a tower. Yeah.

 SisterSydney wrote:
I am -- assassin. I am -- silent. I am -- deadly. I am -- invisible. I am -- sitting in a tank on top of a tower. Yeah.

Right where they would least expect me!

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Welp, I got a little confused on just how I wanted my Sisters to act fluff-wise, so I went ahead and tried the Ordo generator, and came up with...this fiasco... So now I have to try and find a few units that can function with this.

Spoiler:

Order of...?

Order Type: Minor Order
Order Originator: Order of the Bloody Rose
Purpose of Founding: Strategic Prognostication
Order's Flaw: Faith in Suspicion
Order Demeanor: See, but don't be seen
Primary Saint: Celestian Commander
Deed of Legend: Fought a rebel army and brought an entire sector back to the light of the Emperor
Homeworld: Fleet Based
Rule of Homeworld: Advisory Role
Order Organization: Slight Variation
Order's Strategy: Stealth
Order Divergence: Modified Jump Pack
Method of Worship: Purity of Man
Order's Size: Endangered
Order's Allies: Adeptas Astartes
Order's Enemies: A particular chaos aligned group

About the only thing I know for sure is that I am going to need some dominions...and lots of Sanguinary Guard wings. I am just curious if we have any real other options available for deployment.

Never knew of this generator, will have to give it a try, and tweak some parts (paint scheme already Order of Our Martyred Lady colour swap).

As for stealth sisters.... In a campaign...? hmmmmm. Yelling "Burn the Heretics" at one's top voice with Laud Hailers blaring Hymns on the March (<Usual Combat Style), i think "Order Divergence" would have to be quite significant for Stealth...
If you have not read Faith and Fire (Sisters book) i'd recommend it. There is a "stealth moment" there, but it's more along the lines of Kill-Team and only because Impure Heretic said so....

 evildrcheese wrote:
Alright, so what do people think about upgrading superiors to vet superiors? The extra leadership may save you from running off the table, but it's 10pts that could be spent elsewhere. This is a question where the vet would be in troop choices in a priest bomb blob list, so no fearless to pass around like candy...

What does Dakka think? Worth it or no?.

Also, a little late to the party, but here's my Saint Celestine.

D

Spoiler:

Vet Upgrade: no unless you want extra weapons (Double Plasma Pistol on dominions was a thing for me for a while...), Laud Hailer on their transports worth it instead, and I did like Seraphim Superior with Power Lance (When i get away with it asking my opponent - I'm allowed a power Sword, can i make it a Lance...?)

 SisterSydney wrote:
I am -- assassin. I am -- silent. I am -- deadly. I am -- invisible. I am -- sitting in a tank on top of a tower. Yeah.

Love it. --- I'm good at Assassin. You sure that it was not an Ork you employed?

If you do get away with such awful Shenanigans, i'd convert a Bunker to the Shape & Size of a Rhino to put up top as my new "Sniper Nest"
>

 deviantduck wrote:

I don't know why this just popped into my head, but i'm going to try putting a vindicare in a rhino on top of my bastion. So the enemy has to strip 3 hull pts off of AV11 behind a 4+ cover save just to get to the gooey center of model that will then have a 3+cover/4++ save.

Just wondering.

What happens when your opponent destroys that bastion first.....?
I cannot recall without my brb in front of me, but does the bastion become impassable terrain when destroyed?
I don't recall there being any rules for vehicles falling off buildings.

All sorts of headaches spring from this....

Why not just put your rhino on a skyshield and take the 4+ invul save?

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Welp, I got a little confused on just how I wanted my Sisters to act fluff-wise, so I went ahead and tried the Ordo generator, and came up with...this fiasco... So now I have to try and find a few units that can function with this.

Order of...?

Spoiler:

Order Type: Minor Order
Order Originator: Order of the Bloody Rose
Purpose of Founding: Strategic Prognostication
Order's Flaw: Faith in Suspicion
Order Demeanor: See, but don't be seen
Primary Saint: Celestian Commander
Deed of Legend: Fought a rebel army and brought an entire sector back to the light of the Emperor
Homeworld: Fleet Based
Rule of Homeworld: Advisory Role
Order Organization: Slight Variation
Order's Strategy: Stealth
Order Divergence: Modified Jump Pack
Method of Worship: Purity of Man
Order's Size: Endangered
Order's Allies: Adeptas Astartes
Order's Enemies: A particular chaos aligned group

About the only thing I know for sure is that I am going to need some dominions...and lots of Sanguinary Guard wings. I am just curious if we have any real other options available for deployment.

That generator stole a good bit of one of my Order ideas! At least the stealth, modified jump packs, and Astartes Allies.

If it weren't for the fact your Homeworld is 'fleet based' you could always use an urban camo-style paint scheme. Blacks, grays, and maybe some red.

Well, I have solidified a fair bit of what I am going to push for. My early list will consist of something in this general form.

The Visage Angelic These ride in the transport hunting along the flank.
Canoness w/ Mantle of Ophelia, Rosarius
Command Squad w/ 4 Storm Bolters, Simulacrum Imperialis, Immolator

The Faithful Host These EBCs run with their Priests in transport and are the main push.
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino

Sovereigns of the Guard These are my backfield objective holders. The Rhinos move up however once their cargo has secured the area.
Battle Sisters Squad w/ Rhino
Battle Sisters Squad w/ Rhino

The Angels' Wrath These girls serve as a distraction for my main line and hunt for the objective holders, or for last minute pushes to contest objectives.
Seraphim Squad
Seraphim Squad
Seraphim Squad

Purity's Choir These are for the specific hunting of any monstrous creatures and armor on the field.
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributor Squad w/ 4 Multi-Melta, Simulacrum Imperialis, Combi Melta, Immolator w Multi-Melta

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Well, I have solidified a fair bit of what I am going to push for. My early list will consist of something in this general form.

The Visage Angelic These ride in the transport hunting along the flank.
Canoness w/ Mantle of Ophelia, Rosarius
Command Squad w/ 4 Storm Bolters, Simulacrum Imperialis, Immolator

The Faithful Host These EBCs run with their Priests in transport and are the main push.
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino

Sovereigns of the Guard These are my backfield objective holders. The Rhinos move up however once their cargo has secured the area.
Battle Sisters Squad w/ Rhino
Battle Sisters Squad w/ Rhino

The Angels' Wrath These girls serve as a distraction for my main line and hunt for the objective holders, or for last minute pushes to contest objectives.
Seraphim Squad
Seraphim Squad
Seraphim Squad

Purity's Choir These are for the specific hunting of any monstrous creatures and armor on the field.
Exorcist
Exorcist
Dominion Squad w/ 4 Multi-Melta, Simulacrum Imperialis, Combi Melta, Immolator w Multi-Melta

Thematic based army, or do you want to win some games?

Whichever it is, have you considered Allying Inquisition?

Drop a thing here or there, and replace "The Faithful Host These EBCs run with their Priests in transport and are the main push.
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino"

with the same squads from Inquisition, and they can have a Land Raider. Make it more like 2 Crusaders, 6 Death Cult (i'd suggest dropping the Acro-F but you can still use some). And fit the Inquisitor either with them and Liber H (So the whole thing Scouts) or somewhere else (also with Scout, or other).

It'll help to win a little and also help with the "Stealth" Theme. Scouting Land Raider. Paint it black/Camo... =P


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and another Issue:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

The Angels' Wrath These girls serve as a distraction for my main line and hunt for the objective holders, or for last minute pushes to contest objectives.
Seraphim Squad Fast Attack
Seraphim Squad Fast Attack
Seraphim Squad Fast Attack

Purity's Choir These are for the specific hunting of any monstrous creatures and armor on the field.
Exorcist
Exorcist
Dominion Squad w/ 4 Multi-Melta, Simulacrum Imperialis, Combi Melta, Immolator w Multi-Melta Fast Attack

Unless you meant Retributors?

 BlackTalos wrote:
Thematic based army, or do you want to win some games?

Whichever it is, have you considered Allying Inquisition?

Drop a thing here or there, and replace

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
The Faithful Host These EBCs run with their Priests in transport and are the main push.
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino
Priest w/ EBC w/ 3 Arco-Flagellants, 3 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders w/ Rhino

with the same squads from Inquisition, and they can have a Land Raider. Make it more like 2 Crusaders, 6 Death Cult (i'd suggest dropping the Acro-F but you can still use some). And fit the Inquisitor either with them and Liber H (So the whole thing Scouts) or somewhere else (also with Scout, or other).

It'll help to win a little and also help with the "Stealth" Theme. Scouting Land Raider. Paint it black/Camo... =P

It's both thematic and potentially competitive. Also, I would have to drop quite a bit to make 500 points free for those land raiders.

 BlackTalos wrote:
Oh, and another Issue:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

The Angels' Wrath These girls serve as a distraction for my main line and hunt for the objective holders, or for last minute pushes to contest objectives.
Seraphim Squad Fast Attack
Seraphim Squad Fast Attack
Seraphim Squad Fast Attack

Purity's Choir These are for the specific hunting of any monstrous creatures and armor on the field.
Exorcist
Exorcist
Dominion Squad w/ 4 Multi-Melta, Simulacrum Imperialis, Combi Melta, Immolator w Multi-Melta Fast Attack

Unless you meant Retributors?

Yes, I did. I went back and corrected myself.

Well, the idea of the change was not really "those", but the 1.

With the price of 2 squads in Rhinos, who will probably be Las-Canoned down (probably be even Heavy-Boltered down...) because the enemy knows you have 2 CC units inside, which would also have to wait a turn outside (reason for the 3 Crusaders?)
you could put in 1 Land Raider Crusader, 12 Models (Inquisitorial Warband is 3-12) containing 2 Crusaders and possibly 10 Death Cult assassins (or 5 of each Acro-F and Assassins) for the same amount of points.

You'd still have to find the points for the Inquisitor and if you want to add another 2 priests w/ EBC.
But it would make a 15-Man world of pain (competitively), and if it gets Scouting due to the book, then it would also work Thematically for the stealth part...

Simple suggestion, i have considered adding Inquisition to my SoB army for a while but never got to it, so staying pure Sisters if fine too!

My friend held a mini-tournament at his place the other weekend. We had two tables setup on the living room. Was top.

Tried out my new 1000 point Sisters army and won all three games (vs CSM, Orks and Tau). The mix of melta and flamer shots cover a great range.

Also, those Exorcist tanks can be lethal.

The battle against the Orks was the closest as the horde numbers are crazy when they flat out on turn 1 and then pile in on turn 2. I was losing for the first three rounds but carried on...slowly clawed back the game by a single victory point.

Against Tau I lost a Rhino and Immolator before picking up a single die.

Lesson learnt: always play to the end.

Overall, I really enjoyed playing with the Sisters. The rules they have give them a clear focus and feel on the tabletop that separates them from being a SM army.

I have no idea if it is really just Sisters, but i often have the same impression of "clawing back" Victory.

Maybe it's just me facing hard-hitting Turn 1 Armies...

 BlackTalos wrote:
I have no idea if it is really just Sisters, but i often have the same impression of "clawing back" Victory.

Maybe it's just me facing hard-hitting Turn 1 Armies...

I face a lot drop pod armies, DS Grey Knights and bike heavy IF backed by sternguard and devastators so I get hit pretty hard early on. However, I think sisters have a good counter punch. As our domms start outflanking and our flamers get into range we really start to turn up the heat on our enemies. Due to our short range weapons we need a turn or two to get into postion before we can really start killing stuff. I've played so many games where I feel like I'm on the ropes by turn 2 but by turn 5 I'm often doing really well.

Not so much a tactical thing, but I just want to give my Immolator driver a gold star for her performance last weekend. Tank shocked a block of 20 BS 5 (thanks to Czeras) Necron Warriors who botched leadership and ran off the board off of the only objective the Necrons had. :3

 BlackTalos wrote:
Well, the idea of the change was not really "those", but the 1.

With the price of 2 squads in Rhinos, who will probably be Las-Canoned down (probably be even Heavy-Boltered down...) because the enemy knows you have 2 CC units inside, which would also have to wait a turn outside (reason for the 3 Crusaders?)
you could put in 1 Land Raider Crusader, 12 Models (Inquisitorial Warband is 3-12) containing 2 Crusaders and possibly 10 Death Cult assassins (or 5 of each Acro-F and Assassins) for the same amount of points.

You'd still have to find the points for the Inquisitor and if you want to add another 2 priests w/ EBC.
But it would make a 15-Man world of pain (competitively), and if it gets Scouting due to the book, then it would also work Thematically for the stealth part...

Simple suggestion, i have considered adding Inquisition to my SoB army for a while but never got to it, so staying pure Sisters if fine too!

Your fine, I understand completely. I just find it hard to run allies at smaller point games. Eventually, my plan is to run a Sisters of Battle/Black Templar/Inquisition Imperial Cult army.