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HWS have an awkward place nowadays, since there's a lot of S6+. Blobs are good, especially since you can make them fearless cheaply.

 pretre wrote:
HWS have an awkward place nowadays, since there's a lot of S6+. Blobs are good, especially since you can make them fearless cheaply.

This. 2 wounds at T3 is not resilient, even in cover. They tend to die quickly. BS3 makes them mediocre at shooting and LD7 makes it tough for them to really benefit from orders. Sisters do ranged shooting better in almost every case over a HWS.

Blobs are great though. If I was going to include a platoon in my SOB army as an allied unit, I'd build it like this:

Platoon Command Squad
5x Infantry Squad, Power Axe, Melta Bombs
3x SWS, 3x sniper rifles

That comes to 488 points total. It gives you a 50 man blob that can be buffed by your ministorium priests to advance up field and do board control duties to support your dominion alpha strike. It gives you 3 extremely cost efficient (36 points each) ObSec units to cap back field objectives that still might contribute against MCs with their 9 sniper shots. The PCS is not optimal, but its another ObSec unit that lets you buff the shooting of the blob (First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire is always fun and you'll be LD10 with the priests).

Yeah, priests and Celestine can make blob squads pretty entertaining.

PanzerLeader wrote:

 pretre wrote:
HWS have an awkward place nowadays, since there's a lot of S6+. Blobs are good, especially since you can make them fearless cheaply.

This. 2 wounds at T3 is not resilient, even in cover. They tend to die quickly. BS3 makes them mediocre at shooting and LD7 makes it tough for them to really benefit from orders. Sisters do ranged shooting better in almost every case over a HWS.

Blobs are great though. If I was going to include a platoon in my SOB army as an allied unit, I'd build it like this:

Platoon Command Squad
5x Infantry Squad, Power Axe, Melta Bombs
3x SWS, 3x sniper rifles

That comes to 488 points total. It gives you a 50 man blob that can be buffed by your ministorium priests to advance up field and do board control duties to support your dominion alpha strike. It gives you 3 extremely cost efficient (36 points each) ObSec units to cap back field objectives that still might contribute against MCs with their 9 sniper shots. The PCS is not optimal, but its another ObSec unit that lets you buff the shooting of the blob (First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire is always fun and you'll be LD10 with the priests).

Priests are only LD7, you'll need either a Commissar/Primaris Psyker (Ld9) or Lord Commissar (Ld10) for high leadership. Though Ld8 off your sergeants with some vox casters for re-rolls is generally good enough.

The other thing you could do is a gunline providing long range, high strength shooting (something Sisters lack outside of Exorcists). Combine some Infantry Squads in a platoon, with either Autocannons or Lascannons and put a Primaris Psyker in there with Divination. At the very least you'll get Prescience (ie twin-link that BS3) and you could get lucky and get Forewarning (4++ Invuln) or Perfect Timing (Ignores Cover). Bring a CCS with its own Lascannon/Autocannon as your HQ, which also lets you issue the Senior Orders (ie Ignores Cover, Tank/Monster Hunter, Get Back in the Fight). 3-4 Auto/Las Cannons that are re-rolling to hit (Prescience), ignoring cover (Perfect Timing/Order) and/or re-rolling Armour-Pen (Order) is no joke against those Skimmer based armies.

I suppose that if you want Guard heavy weapons nowadays, the best place for them is in a regular infantry squad, NOT a heavy weapons team?

 SisterSydney wrote:
I suppose that if you want Guard heavy weapons nowadays, the best place for them is in a regular infantry squad, NOT a heavy weapons team?

For sure - it means you have plenty of ablative wounds from the rest of the combined squad, you only need to give a single Order to affect all the heavy weapons, you gain the benefit of higher LD and Vox Casters for orders and you can buff them via Psychic Powers far more effectively.

The downside is a larger footprint for the combined unit, and that it is only a single unit (meaning it can only shoot a single unit at a time). But for how relatively cheap you can combine 3-4 Infantry Squads as an Allied Detachment and get the benefit of bodies/Orders it works out pretty good.

If you're just looking for long range shooting though, paying 70 per BS3 lascannon before buffs doesn't seem that efficient.

An allied detachment of CCS w/ Lascannon and Vox, ML2 Primaris Psyker and 3 Combined Infantry Squads w/ Lascannons and Vox is 400pts.

An allied detachment of Space Marines with ML2 Librarian, Scout Squad w/ Snipers and a Devastator Squad w/ 4x Lascannons is 300pts.

I guess it's up to you to determine whether Orders and all those ablative wounds/lasguns are worth an extra 100pts over better base Ballistic Skill. With the Guard you've got at least 1 guaranteed source of Ignores Cover (the senior officer order), whereas both the Primaris Psyker and Librarian be fishing for the Perfect Timing psychic power. There's also the not-to-be-underestimated value in 30 odd Lasguns FRFSRF in Rapid Range - the Devs wont be doing much to a horde of Ork Boys, whereas the Guard Blob can throw a ton of hits their way.

I was not thinking of lascannons, while really nice the Sisters have enough Melta, but I was thinking some Auto Cannons would be good all around fire and some AA in a ditch.

Autocannons are even cheaper

Does any one know what Michael Kiser's list was when he got 6th with sisters with guard at wargamescon?

MrRaioh wrote:
Does any one know what Michael Kiser's list was when he got 6th with sisters with guard at wargamescon?

It was:

Celestine
5 Sisters, flamer, heavy flamer, Rhino
5 Sisters, flamer, heavy flamer, Rhino
5 Dominions, 4x melta, combi-melta, Immolator
5 Dominions, 4x melta, combi-melta, Immolator
5 Dominions, 4x melta, combi-melta, Immolator, laud hailer
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist

Company command squad, 4x plasma, chimera
Veterans, 3x plasma, chimera
2x wyverns

Inquisitor, 3x servo skulls, liber hersius and psyocculum

 GoonBandito wrote:
Priests are only LD7, you'll need either a Commissar/Primaris Psyker (Ld9) or Lord Commissar (Ld10) for high leadership. Though Ld8 off your sergeants with some vox casters for re-rolls is generally good enough.

One priest with Litanies. Bam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/07/21/codex-sisters-of-battle/

 pretre wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
Priests are only LD7, you'll need either a Commissar/Primaris Psyker (Ld9) or Lord Commissar (Ld10) for high leadership. Though Ld8 off your sergeants with some vox casters for re-rolls is generally good enough.

One priest with Litanies. Bam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/07/21/codex-sisters-of-battle/

Litanies of the Faith only applies to Act of Faith/War Hymns. It doesn't do anything for any other type of Leadership checks. My comment there was in response to the suggestion to use a Priest to buff the Guard Blob to Ld10 for Orders - that will not work as the Priest is only LD7.

Honestly in a guard blob, I think Uriah would be the way to go. Ld9 and counterattack.

Oh good call, I didn't notice the orders part.

I keep forgetting priests are LD7 because I have never used them so far.

PanzerLeader wrote:
I keep forgetting priests are LD7 because I have never used them so far.

Really? They are great as ally buffers or even blob buffers. Nothing funnier than a Wolf Lord with rerollable everything.

On the subject of priests... I am having trouble getting good value out of mine. I have been running two (one with Litanies, one with Power Maul) with Jacobus in a blob of 15-20. They tend to go up the middle to restrict enemy movement in the center, grab objectives, and draw fire away from the Dominions. They often get strafed by flyers arriving on turn 2+ or get shot up by high RoF units, but rarely get wiped out. They usually get bogged down in difficult terrain or slowed by a tight squeeze because of their size. They have yet to end up in an assault and the priests never use their wargear or their Hymns. I'm thinking about pulling a priest out to send up with either a Dominion squad with meltas in an Immolator or with a Sisters squad with Flamer/HF in a Rhino just because those units see way more action thanks to their transports. If I try this, how can I equip a priest to do some good at the point of contact?

You could always give them a plasma gun. I haven't found those types of priests to be so useful though. They really shine when your opponent has assault units they want to get into your lines.

Priests are part of what make the DCA, Crusader, Inquisitor squad in a Land Raider work. Although you can take them from the inquisition book, those guys aren't ICs and can't buy Litanies.

Mavnas wrote:
Priests are part of what make the DCA, Crusader, Inquisitor squad in a Land Raider work. Although you can take them from the inquisition book, those guys aren't ICs and can't buy Litanies.

I agree. But my preferred play style has always been MSU so I only rarely run units like that. I almost always choose to buy more units and more guns.

PanzerLeader wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
Priests are part of what make the DCA, Crusader, Inquisitor squad in a Land Raider work. Although you can take them from the inquisition book, those guys aren't ICs and can't buy Litanies.

I agree. But my preferred play style has always been MSU so I only rarely run units like that. I almost always choose to buy more units and more guns.

Then priests should not get upgrades. I have occasionally used one in a doms unit to turn them into more of a speed bump. (Once they ate 27 S4 attacks from some chaos dudes and lost a single sister.)

Quick battle report on tonight's game: 2000 points vs. Chaos Marines/Daemons. We played a Maelstrom with night fighting, and he had the first turn. He had 4x Rhino-mounted Plague Marines, two troops choices that hid in the backfield and summoned as L2 psykers (Tzeentch horrors maybe?-- I never got to them), an L4 demon prince that flew around summoning more stuff, a Chaos Lord, autocannon Havocs, 2x Obliterators, and a Heldrake. I ran Jacobus w/ foot blob, a BSS w/ F/HF in a Rhino, 3x Immo Doms with 3x melta, 2x Exos, HB Rets, Celestine, 2x Seraphim, and two minimum BSS to cover the second CAD.

He spread out across the board and I Outflanked 2 of the 3 Doms who arrived on Turn 2 and 3. He managed to summon 400 extra points worth of daemons over 4 turns (and I denied a few more). Flamers and massed bolters were key here... not a single daemon ever made it into assault (thank goodness). His Havocs were fairly useless, and his Obliterators, his Lord, and squad of Plague Marines spent most of the game grinding away at the blob. Those priests DID earn their keep this time, although I'm still not sure about the Maul. Neither Warlord went down, and we figured out that it was evenly committed at about 450 points per side in that 3-turn combat.

Plague marines are tough; four Rhinos full of them are REALLY tough. I eventually took down 2 squads with Rending HBs and melta Doms and chewed up the other 2 in some tedious multi-turn assaults. I was pretty pleased to take out his Heldrake with 2 turns of snap shots from the 2 Exos; they had few targets after the assaults began and dropping a Flyer got me a well-timed VP. Shockingly, I ended with all 6 vehicles with all their Hull Points intact... not a scratch! The Seraphim did well, both with and without Celestine, mainly flaming daemons in the open and marines in cover.

The game ended in a 9-5 victory for me, called on Turn 4 due to time (our host's 10x10 Dark Angels with free transports had been taken down by combined Tau/Eldar with tons of D weapons). Objectives went slightly my way, the dice gods were even-handed, and mistakes were made on both sides. Takeaways: Flamers are SO sweet for keeping daemons out of your face, high volume shooting is pretty workable vs. high T troops, those minimized "troop tax" BSS units were great in terms of objective coverage, snap shots against flyers can work, but only if you can afford to saturate the target, Laud Hailers may be some of the better points I spent, and did I mention, FLAME EVERYTHING!

My opponent was a little shocked that my 1990s-era army with a not-quite-up-to-speed Codex shut down his summoning, burned all his daemons, chewed through his T5 Marines, and dropped his Flyer without any actual Skyfire weapons. This game brings me to 2-1-2 after 3 editions off. Pretty stoked on the revived sisters, so again, thanks to all here for the help!

MacPhail wrote:
My opponent was a little shocked that my 1990s-era army with a not-quite-up-to-speed Codex shut down his summoning, burned all his daemons, chewed through his T5 Marines, and dropped his Flyer without any actual Skyfire weapons. This game brings me to 2-1-2 after 3 editions off. Pretty stoked on the revived sisters, so again, thanks to all here for the help!

Sisters being a 'Bad Army' is one of those strange, oft-repeated misconceptions about 6th/7th Edition 40k. We were quite possibly the best MSU army until 7th Edition Space Marines came out with their free transports, and with the way allies work in 7th Edition any shortcomings can easily be managed by taking other Imperium of Man armies.

Other armies started doing what sisters do, and still doing the things they do and we can't.

Repressors are still a unique strongpoint, but now requir modeling skills and time.

MacPhail wrote:
Quick battle report on tonight's game: 2000 points vs. Chaos Marines/Daemons. We played a Maelstrom with night fighting, and he had the first turn. He had 4x Rhino-mounted Plague Marines, two troops choices that hid in the backfield and summoned as L2 psykers (Tzeentch horrors maybe?-- I never got to them), an L4 demon prince that flew around summoning more stuff, a Chaos Lord, autocannon Havocs, 2x Obliterators, and a Heldrake. I ran Jacobus w/ foot blob, a BSS w/ F/HF in a Rhino, 3x Immo Doms with 3x melta, 2x Exos, HB Rets, Celestine, 2x Seraphim, and two minimum BSS to cover the second CAD.

He spread out across the board and I Outflanked 2 of the 3 Doms who arrived on Turn 2 and 3. He managed to summon 400 extra points worth of daemons over 4 turns (and I denied a few more). Flamers and massed bolters were key here... not a single daemon ever made it into assault (thank goodness). His Havocs were fairly useless, and his Obliterators, his Lord, and squad of Plague Marines spent most of the game grinding away at the blob. Those priests DID earn their keep this time, although I'm still not sure about the Maul. Neither Warlord went down, and we figured out that it was evenly committed at about 450 points per side in that 3-turn combat.

Plague marines are tough; four Rhinos full of them are REALLY tough. I eventually took down 2 squads with Rending HBs and melta Doms and chewed up the other 2 in some tedious multi-turn assaults. I was pretty pleased to take out his Heldrake with 2 turns of snap shots from the 2 Exos; they had few targets after the assaults began and dropping a Flyer got me a well-timed VP. Shockingly, I ended with all 6 vehicles with all their Hull Points intact... not a scratch! The Seraphim did well, both with and without Celestine, mainly flaming daemons in the open and marines in cover.

The game ended in a 9-5 victory for me, called on Turn 4 due to time (our host's 10x10 Dark Angels with free transports had been taken down by combined Tau/Eldar with tons of D weapons). Objectives went slightly my way, the dice gods were even-handed, and mistakes were made on both sides. Takeaways: Flamers are SO sweet for keeping daemons out of your face, high volume shooting is pretty workable vs. high T troops, those minimized "troop tax" BSS units were great in terms of objective coverage, snap shots against flyers can work, but only if you can afford to saturate the target, Laud Hailers may be some of the better points I spent, and did I mention, FLAME EVERYTHING!

My opponent was a little shocked that my 1990s-era army with a not-quite-up-to-speed Codex shut down his summoning, burned all his daemons, chewed through his T5 Marines, and dropped his Flyer without any actual Skyfire weapons. This game brings me to 2-1-2 after 3 editions off. Pretty stoked on the revived sisters, so again, thanks to all here for the help!

Congrats on your win!

We can and will conquer everything through faith

 GoonBandito wrote:

MacPhail wrote:
My opponent was a little shocked that my 1990s-era army with a not-quite-up-to-speed Codex shut down his summoning, burned all his daemons, chewed through his T5 Marines, and dropped his Flyer without any actual Skyfire weapons. This game brings me to 2-1-2 after 3 editions off. Pretty stoked on the revived sisters, so again, thanks to all here for the help!

Sisters being a 'Bad Army' is one of those strange, oft-repeated misconceptions about 6th/7th Edition 40k. We were quite possibly the best MSU army until 7th Edition Space Marines came out with their free transports, and with the way allies work in 7th Edition any shortcomings can easily be managed by taking other Imperium of Man armies.

Have to agree there. I don't bring my Sisters out as often as they deserve, but my regular opponents DO NOT like seeing them at all. The randos that come to the table to see the "old metal army" always have preconceived notions that don't match the reality of Sisters on the tabletop in 7th. They can be a proper beatstick in experienced hands.

So one of my ATC team mates showed me this gem for Repressors tonight. The Rhebok Assault vehicle from Ramshackle Games. 20 pounds and looks great.

http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=474

PanzerLeader wrote:
So one of my ATC team mates showed me this gem for Repressors tonight. The Rhebok Assault vehicle from Ramshackle Games. 20 pounds and looks great.

http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=474

I got a bunch of those when it was KS'd but ended up selling them and using my conversions.