Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:


So - any updates on whether there's an option to run gargoyles as troops?

You can't. They stay in fast attack as far as we know. Rulebooks may have an additional rule, but the guys with the White Dwarf say nay.

Tongue sticking out = WYSIWYG effect?

C'mon Kan

Nah, the Tyranids are just fans of KISS now.

Nah, they just love listening to Miley Cyrus when they "come in like a wrecking ball."

I haven't seen this suggested yet, but why are people discounting the possibility of there still being a transport bug?

The leaked picture seems to show that the Haruspex has a giant gaping maw and a cavernous gullet. Could this not be a portal for disgorging a brood of gants?

Maybe he's so fat so that he can be a transport.

 RiTides wrote:
Tongue sticking out = WYSIWYG effect?

C'mon Kan

No, you c'mon RiTides!

It's not as unreasonable as you might think though. If the tongue with the exploding grappling hook looking bit is indeed able to "hook on" to tanks and the like, I do not find it incredibly unreasonable to ask that people actually model it with that head on there.

Especially considering how easy to magnetize GW's kits are becoming. I can swap between Doomfire Warlocks and Dark Riders in under a minute without them looking too out of place or ridiculous.

Goobi2 wrote:
Nah, they just love listening to Miley Cyrus when they "come in like a wrecking ball."

New special tyranid biomorph - Twerk reflexes

Two Tabletop Tyranid Tyrants' Titanic Twerking Toppling Towers.

Kan, I meant the fact that you responded to someone saying "why is everything's tongue sticking out" (likely referring to the Prime, Warriors, and some of the Tyrant / Hive Guard) with "It's for WYSIWYG" . Clearly, the flyer has some sort of gun in it's mouth, so that makes sense.

The smaller models, though, just seem to all be pulling a Michael Jordan... it's even on the cover of the codex

Totaling Tracked Troop Transports.

EDIT: To be fair, Nids have always had a thing for the Venom tongue. It is often for WYSIWYG (many things, from Genestealers to Carnifexes, have mouth-mounted biomorphs), but also because it's just a common theme with them and has been for a good while.

I don't really like the flyer's head. I'll probably stick a Trygon head on it when I get it.

Maelstrom808 wrote:I'm just hoping that they address some of the core problems with the current book rather than just making everything cheaper and adding some new "MC +1" models and calling it good.

Which does fix a lot of the problems with the book, ironically.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Any word on the author?

GW design studio.

Stormonu wrote:

 Commander Cain wrote:

Noctem wrote:
I agree, the head is very silly, kind of disappointed they copy pasted the head on all the big bugs!

That was my first thought seeing the Harpy and other big beasty. The head looks very out of place imo.

I find this very strange. Its like being disappointed that a giant human has a human head.

Right? Boo for cohesive design aesthetics I guess.

catharsix wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

Not shocked, genestealers have saturated the market since 2nd edition like Berserkers have for chaos, there is no market for making them playable sadly.

Yeah, sucks. I honestly thought hormagaunts were due to be broken this edition.

Or the whole 'GW only makes things powerful to sell more of them' thing is just a tin-foil hat type thing.

I think you're right here P - GW doesn't do nearly enough playtesting of any new codex to figure out what is truly overpowered. It takes a little time after the new rules drop and the legions of 40k players start trying out various combinations for the truly broken units/combos to emerge. With any system that has as many internal variables (within the rules - so variables that GW can theoretically control) and so many external variables (chance/dice, the idiosyncrasies of various players, terrain, etc. that GW can not possibly control) there's no realistic way to absolutely prevent something or another being broken.

The only way to deal with it would be doing tons and tons of playtesting, and once the broken units emerge from the aggregate data, then you can try to revise them. Of course that puts you back at square one - you then need to playtest the heck out of those revisions. So GW's relatively minimal playtesting might be seen as an entirely reasonable policy acknowledging the futility of preventing any broken units/combos.

-C6

A little glib, but good points.

azreal13 wrote:

 catharsix wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

Not shocked, genestealers have saturated the market since 2nd edition like Berserkers have for chaos, there is no market for making them playable sadly.

Yeah, sucks. I honestly thought hormagaunts were due to be broken this edition.

Or the whole 'GW only makes things powerful to sell more of them' thing is just a tin-foil hat type thing.

I think you're right here P - GW doesn't do nearly enough playtesting of any new codex to figure out what is truly overpowered. It takes a little time after the new rules drop and the legions of 40k players start trying out various combinations for the truly broken units/combos to emerge. With any system that has as many internal variables (within the rules - so variables that GW can theoretically control) and so many external variables (chance/dice, the idiosyncrasies of various players, terrain, etc. that GW can not possibly control) there's no realistic way to absolutely prevent something or another being broken.

The only way to deal with it would be doing tons and tons of playtesting, and once the broken units emerge from the aggregate data, then you can try to revise them. Of course that puts you back at square one - you then need to playtest the heck out of those revisions. So GW's relatively minimal playtesting might be seen as an entirely reasonable policy acknowledging the futility of preventing any broken units/combos.

-C6

This would be a perfectly reasonable argument if it weren't for smaller companies with games of similar levels of complexity and access to lower levels of resources doing a perfectly adequate job of not breaking their own games.

No, those games just have way fewer "layers" of combat, for one. GW has firing, assault, flyers, fortifications, vehicles/transports, more than 4 different movement types, and now a bunch of Supplements and Formations.

There are also way fewer players in those games, which means it's less likely the broken combos are discovered. I can promise you GW puts more time and resources into play-testing than most companies (as they have the ability to do that), but with such a large field of players, something will eventually be found that can be abused. There's also a much larger variety of units to choose from in 40k than in most games, which again, lends itself to odd combos.

Having played many of those other games, I can tell you they are far less enjoyable, and much more predictable. Not good qualities.

If every army played the exact same way (like in FoW or WM/H)? Sure, less imbalance. But so long as every army gets a little something broken, it's not a big deal anyway. One army isn't getting all the brokenness that beats the pants out of everyone else and ignores what opponents are doing, like in editions prior (GK in 5th, Eldar Flying Circus in 4th, etc).

Maelstrom808 wrote:I'm just hoping that they address some of the core problems with the current book rather than just making everything cheaper and adding some new "MC +1" models and calling it good.

Considering many of the "core problems" with Tyranids lie in the 6e rulebook itself... But for problems with the Codex itself? Most likely. Fixing things like Broodlord psychic powers/BS0 should be easy. Emphasis on "should".

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:Whatever happens, the doom-mongers will monger their doom, but this is one of the most exciting, diverse releases in years. Good to see GW's recruitment of more design staff, and new production machinery, gives us the opportunity to rework our army, using our existing troops in a new context. (Now, I just hope Orks get something similar in the spring).

I have always maintained that every company plants employees in various forums to talk up their product. This post is a literal example of why I think that.

Well as far as I am concerned this release can be summed up by

Konkey Dong I choose you!

Y'know, with these points drops -- and some new MC units -- Nidzilla may be back in a big way. Especially if some of them get EW.

HQ - Tyrants, Tervigons, Swarmlord, Trygon Primes(?)
T - Tervigons
FA - Harpies, Crones
HS - Trygons, Mawlocs, Tfexes, Carnifexes, OOE, Exocrines(?), Haruspexes(?)

Elites is the only hole, and we don't really know where Exocrines and Haruspexes will end up, nor if elite Carnifexes will again become possible. And although HG aren't MCs, they can play the T6 spam game (assuming their statline remains the same).

Which is all cool, although I hope that the book also makes/keeps reserve-heavy and fast gribbly swarms viable too.

 Boskonovitch wrote:
I haven't seen this suggested yet, but why are people discounting the possibility of there still being a transport bug?

The leaked picture seems to show that the Haruspex has a giant gaping maw and a cavernous gullet. Could this not be a portal for disgorging a brood of gants?

Maybe he's so fat so that he can be a transport.

Because the WD description of it focuses entirely on the fact that it's there to maul whatever the other nids cannot for proper digestion. That's what the huge mouth is about. If it could transport something they would have mentioned it there or in the batrep.

 brassangel wrote:
No, those games just have way fewer "layers" of combat, for one. GW has firing, assault, flyers, fortifications, vehicles/transports, more than 4 different movement types, and now a bunch of Supplements and Formations.

And there's still no excuse to not playtest them.

There are also way fewer players in those games, which means it's less likely the broken combos are discovered. I can promise you GW puts more time and resources into play-testing than most companies (as they have the ability to do that), but with such a large field of players, something will eventually be found that can be abused. There's also a much larger variety of units to choose from in 40k than in most games, which again, lends itself to odd combos.

Um. You do understand that playtesting is more than just sitting down and playing a couple games with armies that "seem good" and see how everything does, right? Because that's how GW "playtests".

Having played many of those other games, I can tell you they are far less enjoyable, and much more predictable. Not good qualities.

If every army played the exact same way (like in FoW or WM/H)? Sure, less imbalance. But so long as every army gets a little something broken, it's not a big deal anyway. One army isn't getting all the brokenness that beats the pants out of everyone else and ignores what opponents are doing, like in editions prior (GK in 5th, Eldar Flying Circus in 4th, etc).

I'm sure you didn't just say that. I'm absolutely sure you aren't completely ignoring the 2++ rerollables that exist, the Taudar builds that exist, the taudar builds that keep getting more to help them out...
And no one is advocating for every army playing the exact same way. That can be balanced, but it is not the only way for balance to exist.

A question: what is that weapon the warrior on right is holding? It doesn't look like a Deathspitter to me, especially if you compare it with the obvious Deathspitter the Prime is hodling.




(sorry if this was discussed already)

It's just at a different angle I think, but yeah, Deathspitter.

What's more impressive, to me, is that the brood is using a mix of ranged and CC weapons, which was previously not allowed I believe.

 brassangel wrote:
No, those games just have way fewer "layers" of combat, for one. GW has firing, assault, flyers, fortifications, vehicles/transports, more than 4 different movement types, and now a bunch of Supplements and Formations.

Please don't confuse "complicated" with "complex". They are two very different things.

No, it's not a deathspitter.

It looks like they've changed the design of the Barbed strangler.

This is the stranglethorn cannon of the Carnifex



So either they've changed the design of the Barbed strangler to match the stranglethorn cannon or the rules for the weapons has changed and the Tyranid Warriors will now be able to take Venom Cannons, Barbed strangler and Stranglethorn.

ergotoxin wrote:A question: what is that weapon the warrior on right is holding? It doesn't look like a Deathspitter to me, especially if you compare it with the obvious Deathspitter the Prime is hodling.
(sorry if this was discussed already)

Barbed Strangler

streamdragon wrote:It's just at a different angle I think, but yeah, Deathspitter.

What's more impressive, to me, is that the brood is using a mix of ranged and CC weapons, which was previously not allowed I believe.

No, it's a Barbed Strangler. And you have always been able to mix CC and ranged weapons - you just haven't been able to have warriors with different wargear in a brood (excepting the heavy weapon warrior).
If one model had Rending Claws, they all had to.

Good catch. I think it's a redesign of the Strangler, maybe to make it a bit different to the larger Stranglethorn.

That assumes, of course, that the new Codex includes such things as the Stranglethorn and the Heavy Venom Cannon.

 ergotoxin wrote:
A question: what is that weapon the warrior on right is holding? It doesn't look like a Deathspitter to me, especially if you compare it with the obvious Deathspitter the Prime is hodling.




(sorry if this was discussed already)

Not a Deathspitter or a Barbed Strangler. It's a Stranglethorn Cannon. Interesting because Warriors never had access to the Stranglethorn before, only the MC's got the Stranglethorn - they had the Barbed Strangler.

It's a Strangethorn Cannon. Seems like a new Warrior option indeed.

Neither the Deathspitter or Barbed Stranger have an underslung "pipe" nor the bulb on the side like in that image. It's a Strangethorn.

rigeld2 wrote:

No, it's a Barbed Strangler. And you have always been able to mix CC and ranged weapons - you just haven't been able to have warriors with different wargear in a brood (excepting the heavy weapon warrior).
If one model had Rending Claws, they all had to.

Guess I wasn't clear. The brood in the picture has two models with RC/ST, while the others are rocking ST/guns.

I guess if they're showcasing the two "heavy" ranged weapons though, that it is unlikely to be a single brood. (or broods can now have 2 heavy weapons, either way).

It's a barbed strangler....


Which was allowed.

rollawaythestone wrote:

Not a Deathspitter or a Barbed Strangler. It's a Stranglethorn Cannon. Interesting because Warriors never had access to the Stranglethorn before, only the MC's got the Stranglethorn - they had the Barbed Strangler.

Prior to last edition, there was no Stranglethorn Cannon. You had the Barbed Strangler available to both Warriors and Carnifexes/Tyrants. Only last edition felt the need to differentiate between MC heavy weapons and warrior heavy weapons.

Y'know, it's also interesting to note that the Venom Cannon actually looks like a Heavy Venom Cannon. Very cool if the Warriors got access to the MC level heavy weapons.

rollawaythestone wrote:

Spoiler:

 ergotoxin wrote:
A question: what is that weapon the warrior on right is holding? It doesn't look like a Deathspitter to me, especially if you compare it with the obvious Deathspitter the Prime is hodling.




(sorry if this was discussed already)

Not a Deathspitter or a Barbed Strangler. It's a Stranglethorn Cannon. Interesting because Warriors never had access to the Stranglethorn before, only the MC's got the Stranglethorn - they had the Barbed Strangler.

Wow, you are right! That venom cannon looks more like a Heavy Venom Cannon as well, by the way.

Either that or they dropped the Warrior level upgrades, and consolidated the Barbed Strangler into the Stranglethron, and combined the two Venom Cannons. Might make sense that this happened, given they re-did the Warrior kit, and the Warrior's were the only ones that got the little Venom Cannon and the Barbed Strangler.